FINE. I WILLQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
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http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/200...seiken.jpg.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
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FINE. I WILLQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Click for full size
http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/200...seiken.jpg.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
VII didnt look shittier than parts V and VI...well maybe the overworld, but there were at least some improvements and steps forward...Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
Level-5 is just a tiny bit better than whoever made the fucking Shining Soul games. And you know this is getting more attention and a bigger budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
I thought VI looked much better. It was a good looking SNES game along the lines of FFVI and CT, while VII looked like polygonal diarrhea when it came out and has aged poorly since.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
That's not Shining Soul you fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
That game had a lot of attention and a big budget.
Correct. It's Children of Mana. Which was outsourced to the Shining Soul/Shining Tears developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
:sweat:Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
Ahh, its Children of Mana, Seth (shouldve labeled it, I guess).The Secret of Mana series is usually the first I think of when it comes to someone saying Action RPG. Secret of Mana is not usually known for depth, length, or being too overly difficult. Not too sure if I want "Secret of Dragon Quest" here.Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
Well, Im of the camp who thinks Final Fantasy 7 looks like polygonal diarrhea (lol) as compared to a game like Final Fantasy 6 too but I cant deny that there were some improvements in presentation (the summons) and a few other things that made it a bit of a step forward. Same with DQVII....if not a little less so...Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
Already addressed this. It was made by Nex Entertainment, the Shining Soul people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
Except DQVII didn't have a big leap forward in presentation to make up for technical flaws. It was presented the same as always, just uglier than the last one.Quote:
Well, Im of the camp who thinks Final Fantasy 7 looks like polygonal diarrhea (lol) as compared to a game like Final Fantasy 6 too but I cant deny that there were some improvements in presentation (the summons) and a few other things that made it a bit of a step forward. Same with DQVII....if not a little less so...
You know what though I'm not always in the mood for steak, and I fucking love steak. There are some times when something like a hamburger is just right and steak would be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
VII was a disgustingly ugly game, had less frames of animation than V or VI by a good dealQuote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
i think dragon quest 7 was a bit of a step up from 6 in terms of depth. the sprites weren't 3d but the environments were pretty nice for dragon quest at the time. everything felt pretty solid when you'd rotate the camera around an area. i like it a lot more than ffs pre-rendered thingies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
i was never a FF fan. but after playing the demo of FF12 that came with DQ8, it got me excited since the battle system is kindda real time, and love the idea of being able to run around during a battle.....kindda reminds me of WoW battles.
It is however known for being about a million times better than the entirety of the Dragon Quest series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
I'm all for Dragon Quest becoming an Action/RPG. It was the most stagnant major RPG series for a long time. Level 5 finally updated the presentation with VIII, now hopefully they can improve it further in gameplay.
I don't think going to action means it's going to be a Seiken Densetsu clone. I'm sure they can retain the depth of the leveling and the job system within an action-based interface, particularly if they go with a hybrid system like Star Ocean or Tales. I'm just really sick of that same attack menu. It's not deep, it's a waste.
I haven't played a DQ game since the first. Then I heard about this announcement. Interest piqued. Then I saw screenshots of action-RPG. Interest killed. I don't think there is a worse genre of gaming than the aRPG.
Took care of that for ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsubaki
I agree with burg. Turn based were fine years ago, but constanly going through menus, or just picking auto is boring. I've actually fallen asleep during battles (Enchanted Arms) because they distance you from the game. ARPGs bring you into the game and make it feel like you are accomplishing something.
Turn based, non-strategy RPGs are the worst genre in gaming.
No, it's not about turn based vs semi-realtime vs real time. It's about the broken game design where you combine a genre that is supposed to be about skill with a system that automatically helps you (ie leveling up) so you don't have to use skill.
I don't like Zelda. But at least it has progression that is controlled by the game designers. aRPGs are just big messes.
You could say the same about taking gameplay which is supposed to be based on thought and strategy (turn based RPG) and adding a leveling element that supercedes the need for thought. It's a problem of all RPGs. At least with action based RPGs there's more of a balance between skill and grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsubaki
Basically the dynamic is that skill will make it so you don't have to put effort into grinding, and you can progress more naturally, but leveling up is possible for patient people who suck. If the game is balanced it works.
I see your point, and it is well taken. This is my biggest beef against the "Metroidvanias."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsubaki
Isn't that twice as true for the classic DQs, though? If a boss is too hard, and you can't win, the solution is never to practice and try a better strategy until you get good at the boss. No, you go level grind until the boss is easy. At least in the Metroidvanias you CAN overcome being underleveled with sheer skill.
That's also a valid point. I didn't notice these being posted in the thread yet, so here are some screens.
DQ is nothing but level-grinding. If you take the level-grinding out of DQ you have nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
This is why I hate DQ, but also why I hold some hope that this one could be different.
Which is why Tsubaki's comment is so funny. He lost interest once he heard you would have to control movement while level grinding.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
Yeah then it's just walking around for 100 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
You described RPG gameplay, pretty much.
In the same way you could describe a FPS as "walking around and clicking on people until they die"Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
Diablo is an FPS, you heard it here first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I enjoy walking around. I do it daily.
kof must be like level 1,000,000!
Even at that level, I can never beat the big boss my wife owns me for free
Maybe, but remember I haven't played DQ since the first (which I disliked). I just want to try a recent DQ to see if my opinion will change. I do the same for other games (Final Fantasy, Tales) although they've yet to change my initial opinion...Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Also, I was under the impression that DQ is grinderific not for difficulty/lack-of reasons.
Oh and Yoshi, yes. That's a huge reason why I think Metroidvanias are absolute garbage. The other reason is they took out the platforming too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Ok I will elaborate. You have this odd anger towards handheld gaming in general, and that there's some reason to stand on odd principals of gaming that some one buying a handheld to play the games they want to play are part of a problem. A problem that doesn't exist.
This isn't the some of the most awful video game news ever. There is no reason to think that the game will terrible. Writing off a game simply because of the system it will be on is garbage. Unless they take decades leap back and put it on Atari Lynx or some shit.
This is you not giving Enix or the DS any credit. So you don't like Handhelds whoopity fuckin do. I remember you in another thread some how claiming that games are far more about graphics then they actually are. If that was the case then games like State of Emergency with fancy ass graphics would be regarded as better then Super Metroid with simple sprites and scaling type shit. I would go further but for you to write off DQIX because it's not going to be on Wii/360/ or PS2 or 3 or whatever is short sighted idiocy the likes of which I haven't of for a long time, and I don't want to risk Burgundy banning me especially since I got "warned" for calling you a moron.
BTW if this is too much Burgundy I'll clear this post out and drop the whole issue. I'm not big on being banned.
He never said anything about the game being trash.
Why else would it be "awful news"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain
Because he loves DQ and hates portables, refusing to play games on portables. Thus he won't get to play the new DQ, and he finds that awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
He has a point though. If Ion Storm (ok, someone that still exists) made a new Deus Ex on DS, PSP or Wii, I would be ripshit. I didn't spend tons of money on a setup so I can play with one of those.
Then he's limiting himself and preventing himself from what can be an enjoyable experience due to his arbitrary hatred of handhelds. Why would anyone do that to themselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
What do you hate most? Drugs? Candy? Imagine what you loved most was only available with what you hate the most. dog$ hates Nintendo. dog$ hates portables. dog$ likes Dragon Quest. The only thing that could make it worse is if it was called Final Dragon Quest Fantasy IX.
I laughed when i first read it, because the first thing i thought was, "LOL DOG$" but now... now... it's over and it's not funny. It's just a mean joke, like if your favorite ice cream was only available with spinach or was only made in sugar-free or something. Poor, poor dog$.
Then fuck him. This game looks and sounds like fun.
Deus Ex benefits hugely from technological advances and as such wouldn't be properly served on any of those systems, so you'd be fully justified to be pissed off there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
Dragon Quest has never been about pushing technological limits or utilizing a system's power to its fullest. Part VIII was a fluke in the grand scheme of the series for this, and even then the Japanese version didn't take advantage of the PS2's audio capabilities at all... it just looked nice, with no voice acting, MIDI music and "classic" sound effects.
Basically, to continue the PC analogy I'd be furious if Half-Life 3 were made for the DS, but wouldn't care if it were the next X-Com game instead (assuming the X-Com franchise weren't dead and buried).
That's all pretty irrelevant if you just dislike playing games on a 2-inch screen in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
I was replying to Joust's example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Hardcore gamers. :yuck:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
When is this supposed to come out, anyway?
Hope your Page Down key works.
To be fair, it's more accurate to say I hate Nintendo fans than Nintendo itself. Most of their games I don't like but I'm cool with a few things like FZero GX and such. It's most of their fucking fans - with their distorted interpretation of videogame function and history - that drive me insane.
Now on to the rest of the crap to catch up with.January 13, 1980.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Two jobs. One is night shift (11p-3a or such) at a FedEx Ground hub in Bedford Park, IL. I pull an IC (Incompatible) belt, meaning I spend 4 hours taking long or 100+lb things off of one belt and placing them elsewhere. Number two is going to be a manager of a Jackson Hewitt branch in Steger, IL. Prefile starts December 28.I don't. I have plenty of shit to do.Quote:
If you spend any appreciable length of time in the day away from your home theater setup you probably get the urge to play games away from it.
Furthermore, the point isn't about how good my home setup is (it's not anything special), the point is it's all shit I already spent money on.That was not the point at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
To me, saying that a videogame system is not about graphics is comparable to making - a computer that isn't about processing, a guitar that isn't about acoustics, a knife that isn't about cutting, and so fucking on. Sure, it can be done, but certain people won't accept the angle.
Not quite sure why you brought that up.
Anyway, let's tie two together for a finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I'm not forced to do a goddamned thing with videogames - there are only 24 hours in one day and I try not to squander them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
There's nobody that is able to purchase, play, and complete every single videogame that comes out. There are few people who would actually want to do that in the first place. Everyone has standards on what they decide they will spend time with and what they will purchase.
I've tried the whole handheld thing too; really, I have. I had a GBP with Bionic Commando once, a NGPC too - I didn't get those goddamned V$ the hard way, blindly playing that GnG minigame was quicker. Even in the rare times I used them in those cases, I felt like my time was fully wasted to the point that I actually felt guilty for playing them. I try my gf's PSP for a round of Lumines and when I'm done twenty minutes later I truly resent having picked the thing up in the first place. For whatever reason, I can't enjoy playing handhelds.
So that's a standard for me. Some people don't buy games based on developer, or genre, or whatever. I demand the game to be playable on my TV instead of some proprietary, tiny, shitty LCD screen. The game on said shitty screen might be all kinds of wonderful, but I refuse to invest my time and money into it. There are so many other things I'd rather do.
This is so true. We should all band together to get hardcore Nintards a new hobby so the rest of us can enjoy it for what it is without the freakish manchild my-entire-emotionally-stunted-being-is-invested-in-this baggage.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
I'm one of the biggest fans of Nintendo's games around but yeah, it really is an epidemic. Nintendo constantly gets credited with things they did not invent, and often it's from the gaming media itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
I don't really remember why I brought it up, probably because I remember that argument very vividly in that you seem to have your views out of irrationality. And you seem very genuine with whawt you feel and don't appear to be trolling like Joust does in every thread that says Wii/DS/Nintendo/etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
You're 100% right you don't have to buy/do anything regarding video games. As a whole they are a complete waste of time and money aside from the fun factor and it gives bored/lonely people something to do.Quote:
Anyway, let's tie two together for a finish.I'm not forced to do a goddamned thing with videogames - there are only 24 hours in one day and I try not to squander them.
There's nobody that is able to purchase, play, and complete every single videogame that comes out. There are few people who would actually want to do that in the first place. Everyone has standards on what they decide they will spend time with and what they will purchase.
I've tried the whole handheld thing too; really, I have. I had a GBP with Bionic Commando once, a NGPC too - I didn't get those goddamned V$ the hard way, blindly playing that GnG minigame was quicker. Even in the rare times I used them in those cases, I felt like my time was fully wasted to the point that I actually felt guilty for playing them. I try my gf's PSP for a round of Lumines and when I'm done twenty minutes later I truly resent having picked the thing up in the first place. For whatever reason, I can't enjoy playing handhelds.
So that's a standard for me. Some people don't buy games based on developer, or genre, or whatever. I demand the game to be playable on my TV instead of some proprietary, tiny, shitty LCD screen. The game on said shitty screen might be all kinds of wonderful, but I refuse to invest my time and money into it. There are so many other things I'd rather do.
But to feel GUILTY and bad for any reason for playing a handheld is simply lunacy. If you think they're shit that's one thing, if you hate a tiny screen and tiny speakers that's another but to state that they make you feel "bad"? Well I take it back I don't think you're a moron anymore but this puzzles the hell out of me as to why some one would feel bad for playing a handheld, especially if you're just worried about wasting time because then that should transfer over to consoles. Because Mario 64 is an equal waste of time if it's played on the N64 or the DS.
It's downright absurd sometimes. I've heard people claim that Mario 64 was the first 3D game. And the thing is, Nintendo is a hugely important company that did do a lot, but their fans aren't content with the reality of things, and have to concoct all kinds of crazy claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Treasure fans used to be really bad, too. Partly because of the decline of gamefan (and the efforts of sites like SFKosmo if I can take a little credit), they've gotten a lot better informed, but I used to hear people claim that Treasure was an elite team at Konami and they developed Contra and Castlevania and Gradius and all this purely fabricated mythology.
how would this be bad for PSP? PSP has their bigger franchise, Final Fantasy.
if anything they spread themselves out to make the most money on all handhelds.
What's more absurd is when people let their objective enjoyment of anything be affected by what someone else says or posts online.
The PSP doesn't have a sequel to Final Fantasy proper on the way. Tactics, while 1,000 times better than the "real" Final Fantasy games, is not nearly the system seller.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM Brian
Oh, it doesn't affect how I feel about Nintendo, just their fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
I totally respect dog$ explanation. Handheld gaming is what you do to avoid being bored while something else is being done. PC or console gaming is something with which you actively replace something else. Do you watch tv or play a ps2 game... Do you surf the net or play a pc game. With a handheld if you're going to actively play on it, why not wish it was on a bigger, better medium? If there's a bigger, better medium, why not avoid a handheld that you don't actively seek out playing time on and play something on the better medium? If it happens to be your favorite series, why not be mad when it doesn't get offered on the bigger, better medium?
If you take the bus a lot or find yourself in the bathroom for hours, or maybe right before you fall asleep at night you like to get in a little gaming in bed, a handheld may be for you. For some people, a book is better.
I prefer books.
You still hear that on occasion, and it drives me nuts because unlike ertarded Nintendo fans, you know Treasure fans know enough about games and the industry in general to be better informed. Nintendo fans frequently have the excuse of being casual enough to not know any better, but there's no such thing as a casual Treasure fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
PSP doesn't have any of the main games, just side games. Meanwhile, between the GBA and the DS the first six entries of the franchise are playable on the DS. I'd say both handhelds are getting about equal Final Fantasy love, but neither of them are getting part XIII.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM Brian
PSP's also getting FFVII: Crisis Core (eventually), but it's all academic since DS got the FFIII remake first, and they're getting a Crystal Chronicles too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
gah! i just realised...aren't we about due for another dragon quest updated graphics remake? i'd love it if they put the dq6 one on the ds. i wouldn't mind it on the gba, either.
oh hay whats this
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/dragonquest/20th/DQ9.html
New trailer up. Looking nice.
wwoooooowwww. thank you for posting that.
That trailer looks great. Developers are really learning how to push the DS hardware now.
That trailer is freaking awesome.
I had to rub one out over that trailer.
Very nice, much like DQ8 and far better looking than FF3 DS.
Looks like it's turn-based after all. :-/
Click for full size
That looks soooo good.
Confirmed. They put something in the water in Japan to make the people love Dragonquest. And girls with no asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I was more interested when it wasn't turn-based.
It's Dragon Quest... I'll be lining up with the slanty eyes in the morning for it when it comes out. Doesn't matter to me if it's turnbased or not.
So are they abandoning the realtime angle entirely, or is this an option, or what? bbobb or someone that speaks moon language should enlighten us.
There is nothing about realtime in that article. It looks like it will be entirely turn based, so I'm not sure what the point of online will be now. I know I'm not going to bother with it.
It's pretty stupid, they're all excited that, all 4 of you pick your moves, then you get time to look at what everyone else is doing and make changes if you want, then you fight... OOOOOo boy.
But oh well... single player should still be hot.
It won't be hot unless they invent a battle system that involves more than just pounding the B button while you wait for the immobile piece of crap in front of you to go away.
I still like it. No random battles... that's enough to make me happy.
This is a significant step in the right direction. I'll yield this much.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Thank god I am not the only one who thinks this about the Dragon Quest. The only one I actually tried to play through was 8, which was supposed to be fantastic. And at about 30 hours in, I had to quit, because it was the same borefest battle system over and over again. The world was great, the characters were great, but the gameplay was way to stale for me to stomach another 30+ hours of playing through the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Wouldn't shock me, there was numerous complaints from Japanese players, perhaps it'll end up as part of a online multi-player element. *-neoQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I'm going to play the shit out of this game.
<3 DQ
The DQ team took a Japanese poll after they annouced the new game info and videos. Many people were upset about the action fighting more than it going to the DS. They published some of the responses in some magazine I read recently. They got their vending machine bought young girl panties in a major wad over this.
I kind of understand actually, although I don't personally feel that way in this case. It's like when your favorite instrumental, pretty music band does a death metal album with vocals over every track. You might think the music itself is awesome, but it's not <INSERT INSTRUMENTAL BAND'S NAME HERE>. They should have done this album under a pseudonym.
I'll bet a lot of the people that were upset about the prospect of main-series DQ going action on them don't necessarily have a problem with action games per se.
I bet they do. Japan hardly plays action games anymore.
I don't even care that it's turn based. I care that it's the same turn based system as first game on NES.
Thanks for the lol. And thanks for the future, residual lols I'll have thinking of your post every time I see a shitty licensed Bandai game or Musou title at the top of the Japanese sales charts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
EDIT: And Kingdom Hearts re-release.
I need to remember where I read the article at. It might have been in either edge or Games TM. They had an interview with the creator of DQ and it hinted that he always wanted it to be an action game from the beginning but the power of the famicom couldn't do it how he wanted at the time. He mentioned about how DQ8 was how he first invisioned the game to look and the major changes to DQ9 were how he wanted it to play.
I'll fix his post to address your concerns. Japan hardly plays good action games anymore. There. Everything with Bandai or Kingdom Hearts on the box is now safely marginalized.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
So what does he do with the next one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtificial
Why, develop it for a system where such a vision is once again impossible.So what the fuck does this mean? That we'll have to wait until DQ13 where we'll have a game that both looks and plays to his vision?Quote:
and the major changes to DQ9 were how he wanted it to play.
I can wait.
What about you people who wanted a DQ game to not be a DQ game with that active battle crap? Can you wait too? Or are you going to handle DQ9 like you did with the DS itself where, despite the initial bitching, you inevitably collectively shrugged your shoulders and didn't blink at pissing money away.
I can only speak for myself, but I learned my lesson with the first 7 Dragon Quests, and I will not play another one until they change the battle system. I don't care if someone gives me a free copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
That works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I know you don't like playing portable gaming. But some of us do, so we didn't piss our money away with the DS.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Yeah, but some of us did balk at the DS' stupid design and unambitious hardware. I certainly did. But there's nothing hypocritical about saying that's been outweighed by a really strong library.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I'm pretty sure I never balked once myself, and bought one the day it came out... same with the PSP.
Its about the same thing as the metal gear games. Hideo Kojima had a bigger picture when he first started making the games, but the systems couldn't handle his vision at the time. He was even quoted as saying that Playstation MGS games were the closest to his vision and tweeked each one to match what he had dreamed of originally.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Yuji Horii thought the whole look and feel of the DQ world in DQ8 was about perfect to the living breathing fantasy world he invisioned. He had better ideas for a battle system and other stuff, but yet got try them out. Seemed he was going to take the first step with 9, but there was a huge outcry of "OMG its not DQ anymore!" and they changed it back it seems.
The last time developers listened to fans we got Twilight Princess, and that sucked.
"Yuji Horii thought the whole look and feel of the DQ world in DQ8 was about perfect to the living breathing fantasy world he invisioned."
Yea but Dog$'s (Dog$'?) point is that if DQ8 was closer to the world he envisioned, why would he go from the PS2 to the DS? I'm not really knocking the DS (although I think it is too weak to be that great for these 3D games), but it isn't even close to the PS2, let alone the PS3 or even Wii. To me this is nothing but a cash-driven design decision (DS is cheap! yay!), which is rather lame coming from a developer with as much pull as he has.
It has nothing to do with the DS being cheap and has all to do with the fact that the DS has sold like gang busters in Japan and is selling 100K + every week over there. The DS is only a few million behind the PS2 in LTD sales and will most likely surpass it by the end of this year, that was the reason behind DQIX being on the DS. What ever platform has the highest installed base gets DQ, it's always been that way in Japan.
Why say it's one or the other? Seems like both is equally applicable.
Previously, handhelds were grounds for rehashing the series, not leading its continuation. One would think this is because the people behind the series wanted the new entry to be considered the best game they could possibly make at the time.
Now we get to argue about what the word best means.
Exactly.
Yes yes dog$ you hate portables. But I and a lot of other people love them (including this entire nation). And now they're finding that they can do some pretty awesome things with handhelds. So some franchises are moving their key games over to them.
Previously online was only on PCs. Previously lots of things. Castlevania and Megaman have been viable only on handhelds for years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
