Freedom to Fascism?

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Originally Posted by MarsKitten

Where does the tax money come from? Economic activity, the citizens in any country are piss poor at finacial planning and managing their wealth. In the end it takes an elite to manage and run things for the greater good of all or at least the greater good of themselves. Governments sell stablility to businesses for their tax dollars, which far out number those of workers. Businesses want to make sure that they can extract a favorable position for their niche from the people who maintain the order.

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This is ridiculous. You're basically advocating trickle-down economics, the idea that us serfs are so fucking stupid that we can't be trusted with revenue so we need to pile it all in the hands of greedy fat cats and hope they drop some of their riches as they're stealing off into the night. Forget about workers rights, or even citizens rights. Let's work everyone for slave wages and take away their property for no other reason than to build a new Wal-Mart. Hey, it's economic activity isn't it? Who cares who gets chewed up along the way?

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Originally Posted by MarsKitten

The truth is, government are ALWAYS influenced by businesses, companies and corporations. Just the balance of power has shifted away from wealthy induviduals towards corporate entities.

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Are you kidding? It's still wealthy individuals. The amount of money a CEO takes home now compared to the wage earner is like over 400%, and they usually get a nice golden parachute when they leave no matter how much they fucked off during their time there. Instead of a medium between labor and corporate power, we have a system that's insanely disparate in favor of corporations. That's not good, and we shouldn't stand for it. But, because of thinking like this, that we NEED the corporations so badly we should kneel at their feet and beg for more abuse, it only gets worse.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

Um, if you think tax is illegal, you're an asshat. Governments in general provide public goods much more efficiently than we could provide for ourselves, even if they're doing a far from perfect job. Remove taxes and you remove the government, and remove the government and we have anarchy.

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Agreed. I, for one, don't want to have to worry that my power will be off about 10 hours out of the day because my state's privatized its power board and now some corporation is putting the squeeze on the grid so it can make even more obscene profits (Enron did this in California). The same goes for all utilities. Every time privatization has been introduced it's been a disaster for everyone but the corporation.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

This is ridiculous. You're basically advocating trickle-down economics, the idea that us serfs are so fucking stupid that we can't be trusted with revenue so we need to pile it all in the hands of greedy fat cats and hope they drop some of their riches as they're stealing off into the night. Forget about workers rights, or even citizens rights. Let's work everyone for slave wages and take away their property for no other reason than to build a new Wal-Mart. Hey, it's economic activity isn't it? Who cares who gets chewed up along the way?

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Actually this is why I'm in favor of unions and workers rights. People are generally very stupid about their finances in the long run. Do you put 20-30% of your money aside for investment? Or even into a low risk money market fund?
Probally not, but if you're in a union at least you'll have a pension and hopefully won't get worked to death then ignored if you suddenly cannot work up to standards.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Are you kidding? It's still wealthy individuals. The amount of money a CEO takes home now compared to the wage earner is like over 400%, and they usually get a nice golden parachute when they leave no matter how much they fucked off during their time there. Instead of a medium between labor and corporate power, we have a system that's insanely disparate in favor of corporations. That's not good, and we shouldn't stand for it. But, because of thinking like this, that we NEED the corporations so badly we should kneel at their feet and beg for more abuse, it only gets worse.

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Its corporations, wealth is spread out over a board of members, CEO, president ect. Who are yes, grossly overpaid. And with that gross overpay and access to a revenue stream they work to ensure the system that is currently in place, which favors large corporations and businesses stays in place and continues to favor them. IT works, it keeps the politicians they like well funded and hopefully for them, elected.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Agreed. I, for one, don't want to have to worry that my power will be off about 10 hours out of the day because my state's privatized its power board and now some corporation is putting the squeeze on the grid so it can make even more obscene profits (Enron did this in California). The same goes for all utilities. Every time privatization has been introduced it's been a disaster for everyone but the corporation.

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Which is why the system sucks. The reason its a disaster for everyone but the corporations is because they spend years (30 in Texas' case) lobbying law makers for subsidies, favors, grants, land, tax breaks and other goodies. Take Texas' deregulation bill, there's a "Stranded assets clause", which has been lobbied for since the 70's. During that same time a nuklear power plant has been built and finally completed in 2000-2001. They knew it was gonna be useless but it was built for $800 million. Since it was useless it qualified to be bought by the state under the stranded assets clause. They charged the state 1.2 billion for a plant that has never been used, is obsolete by today's standards and possibly useless in the future.

Businesses have rightly concluded, that the cost of doing business includes consistantly lobbying congress for their needs. If they want to maximize profit and reduce tax liablity for their earnings, they lobby for that. And the workers pay it out of their income taxes.

What i'm trying to say is: The system sucks but its definitely not new. If the citizeny wanted to stop it they would essentially have to counter lobby congress and provide either votes or money.

If you disagree see my sig.

I never said get rid of all taxes. I just see no reason for an Income Tax. We pay enough taxes in highway, clean air, paper, tobacco, gas, water, electric, etc. They take enough taxes out of our pay to provide the proper services. Its the Income tax that really gets at my craw.

Also, NJ is really thinking of this privitization thing, Not happy about it.

Yeah, Im not saying abolish taxes either. We obviously need them to function.

The whole gist of the video by the end of it seemed to be that it is wrong to let private bankers AKA the Federal Reserve/IRS be in charge of the making of money as it seems them being in control of it gives them some pretty specific powers in our government. Would it be a bad thing if our government created an agency to function in their place without any alterior motives? THAT agency created would still have to collect taxes, but at least we'd know who the people in charge of it were if it were an appointed office.

The North American Union and World Government thing towards the end of the video, I just dont think I buy yet. They make a couple of assumptions and throw a few world events and quotes into there that are kind of curious, showing it as a sign of the scary shady bankers.

ZOG!

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Originally Posted by dakidski

ZOG!

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http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7435/zodcy9.jpg

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Originally Posted by dakidski

ZOG!

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Originally Posted by sphere79

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the trampling at the zoo
We've washed ourselves in niggers blood and all the mongrels too
WE'RE TEARING DOWN THE ZOG MACHINE JEW BY JEW BY JEW
The white man marches on!

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The six Jew bankers FTW

Huahuahuahua

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Originally Posted by MarsKitten

Actually this is why I'm in favor of unions and workers rights. People are generally very stupid about their finances in the long run. Do you put 20-30% of your money aside for investment? Or even into a low risk money market fund?
Probally not, but if you're in a union at least you'll have a pension and hopefully won't get worked to death then ignored if you suddenly cannot work up to standards.

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You get a pension that will probably get cut back thanks the Bankrupcy and how easy it is for companies to file for it.

Its bullshit really tracer. Its getting fucking impossible to work hard and assure your own future unless you join the corporate machine. No guarentees anymore in the United States. Pensions are not sacred any longer, can't dedicate yourself to a company and get taken care of.

Its no longer about the citizen but the corporation, like we've stated above.