Freedom to Fascism?

A friend of mine sent me this link and wanted me to watch this.She's a a bit of a Conspiracy nut like YAWA , but I love her. Its long but seems to be a good, informative watch. Basically, this states that the 16th Amendment is a farce and citizens should not be made to pay income taxes, seeing as there is no law inciting that citizens have to pay anything, its just implied and enforced to the max.It also shows that the Federal Reserve and Private Bankers are controlling a hell of a lot behind the scenes in our government if this is in the least bit true.Never heard of the Govt. v. Whitey Herrel case but the jury voted for him seeing as IRS agents couldnt produce proof of the law that the Amendment stated? wtf?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI&eurl=

If mods feel it should be moved to Cinemania or something then go for it. I just felt some of the more politically minded people then me, would see this in here and have something to say on it.

Anyways, just curious on what some of you guys thought about it. A crock of shit or what?

I mean I hate paying taxes as much as anyone, but it IS a requirement to keep this country of ours going. I mean all that money has to fund our defense (and offense) has to come from somewhere, right? Even if we are paying the IRS/Federal Reserve, the Government is recieving "money" from them to fund the country so, give and take right? Maybe this thing is just a bunch of hippies trying to find loopholes in beween the lines to get out of paying taxes?

Trying to watch the whole thing right now, So if pink teddybears, dancing teleubbies, and women getting fucked in the ass by horses pop up at the end, then I apologize :p

I saw this a little while ago. I enjoyed it, but I was drunk.

Meh, I don't really mind taxes, the government spending of it is always in question, but taxes tend to make people spend more time in leisure and less working, which i think is rad.

I've always stood by the fact that the Income Tax is illegal. I pay because its taken out of my pay. BUt I know in my heart that there is no law. This movie just substaniates my feelings. The one thing I did not know is that it(the amendment) was made way before I thought.

You still have to pay. Until there's a SCOTUS either liberal or conservative enough to overturn the income tax its not going away. There's a bit of an activist movement around these issues, but they never get anywhere.

Basicly its a cash cow for the government to pay for all those things we like governments to do.
Wage War
Social Security
Pay for subsidies

No congressman would ever hit that revenue stream. It would be like saying, "Whoa, that goldmine is on indian land, well we should just give it all back."

Justice v. Convience, take a guess kids.

The last half hour or so deals with a lot of executive orders that violate civil rights, chipping people via REAL ID cards, and and a Programmer from a company that purports to have made Election rigging devices for Jeb Bushs running mate Tom Feeney before a forum on Presidential Election. Undetectable unless viewing Source code for the election machines or straight up ballot counting.

Not a bad flick. Pretty disturbing to think that Private Banking and the Federal Reserve are controlling a lot of things behind the scenes. I guess money does = power.

Jetman check this out. From The Philadelphia Inquirer about NJ.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/16616001.htm

Basically Corporations run the Gov't now, working with Bankers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Advocate

Jetman check this out. From The Philadelphia Inquirer about NJ.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/16616001.htm

Basically Corporations run the Gov't now, working with Bankers.

---

Man, thats nuts. Really depressing to see the state of affairs our government is falling under.

I'll send my friend your link , she'll definitely get a kick out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarsKitten

You still have to pay. Until there's a SCOTUS either liberal or conservative enough to overturn the income tax its not going away. There's a bit of an activist movement around these issues, but they never get anywhere.

Basicly its a cash cow for the government to pay for all those things we like governments to do.
Wage War
Social Security
Pay for subsidies

No congressman would ever hit that revenue stream. It would be like saying, "Whoa, that goldmine is on indian land, well we should just give it all back."

Justice v. Convience, take a guess kids.

---

Well said, and all too true. : :( :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Advocate

Jetman check this out. From The Philadelphia Inquirer about NJ.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/16616001.htm

Basically Corporations run the Gov't now, working with Bankers.

---

Old accusation really, if you go back 30+ years it was the Jews controling governments, look up stuff like ZOG (Zion owned government). Business with lots of cash on hand always have a percieved corruptive effect on government.

I'm a leftist girl. But here's the deal kids, we NEED businesses and government. Businesses are essentially long term bets on if one person's idea of how make something, using the advantages of scale to get a profit later (farming, resturants, banks). This is called planning. The government does this too except it collects taxes and provides services. Also requiring long term planning.

Where does the tax money come from? Economic activity, the citizens in any country are piss poor at finacial planning and managing their wealth. In the end it takes an elite to manage and run things for the greater good of all or at least the greater good of themselves. Governments sell stablility to businesses for their tax dollars, which far out number those of workers. Businesses want to make sure that they can extract a favorable position for their niche from the people who maintain the order.

The trick to good governance is to make sure it stays more toward the greater good of all.

The truth is, government are ALWAYS influenced by businesses, companies and corporations. Just the balance of power has shifted away from wealthy induviduals towards corporate entities.

Um, if you think tax is illegal, you're an asshat. Governments in general provide public goods much more efficiently than we could provide for ourselves, even if they're doing a far from perfect job. Remove taxes and you remove the government, and remove the government and we have anarchy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarsKitten

Where does the tax money come from? Economic activity, the citizens in any country are piss poor at finacial planning and managing their wealth. In the end it takes an elite to manage and run things for the greater good of all or at least the greater good of themselves. Governments sell stablility to businesses for their tax dollars, which far out number those of workers. Businesses want to make sure that they can extract a favorable position for their niche from the people who maintain the order.

---

This is ridiculous. You're basically advocating trickle-down economics, the idea that us serfs are so fucking stupid that we can't be trusted with revenue so we need to pile it all in the hands of greedy fat cats and hope they drop some of their riches as they're stealing off into the night. Forget about workers rights, or even citizens rights. Let's work everyone for slave wages and take away their property for no other reason than to build a new Wal-Mart. Hey, it's economic activity isn't it? Who cares who gets chewed up along the way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarsKitten

The truth is, government are ALWAYS influenced by businesses, companies and corporations. Just the balance of power has shifted away from wealthy induviduals towards corporate entities.

---

Are you kidding? It's still wealthy individuals. The amount of money a CEO takes home now compared to the wage earner is like over 400%, and they usually get a nice golden parachute when they leave no matter how much they fucked off during their time there. Instead of a medium between labor and corporate power, we have a system that's insanely disparate in favor of corporations. That's not good, and we shouldn't stand for it. But, because of thinking like this, that we NEED the corporations so badly we should kneel at their feet and beg for more abuse, it only gets worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by burgundy

Um, if you think tax is illegal, you're an asshat. Governments in general provide public goods much more efficiently than we could provide for ourselves, even if they're doing a far from perfect job. Remove taxes and you remove the government, and remove the government and we have anarchy.

---

Agreed. I, for one, don't want to have to worry that my power will be off about 10 hours out of the day because my state's privatized its power board and now some corporation is putting the squeeze on the grid so it can make even more obscene profits (Enron did this in California). The same goes for all utilities. Every time privatization has been introduced it's been a disaster for everyone but the corporation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by g0zen

This is ridiculous. You're basically advocating trickle-down economics, the idea that us serfs are so fucking stupid that we can't be trusted with revenue so we need to pile it all in the hands of greedy fat cats and hope they drop some of their riches as they're stealing off into the night. Forget about workers rights, or even citizens rights. Let's work everyone for slave wages and take away their property for no other reason than to build a new Wal-Mart. Hey, it's economic activity isn't it? Who cares who gets chewed up along the way?

---

Actually this is why I'm in favor of unions and workers rights. People are generally very stupid about their finances in the long run. Do you put 20-30% of your money aside for investment? Or even into a low risk money market fund?
Probally not, but if you're in a union at least you'll have a pension and hopefully won't get worked to death then ignored if you suddenly cannot work up to standards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by g0zen

Are you kidding? It's still wealthy individuals. The amount of money a CEO takes home now compared to the wage earner is like over 400%, and they usually get a nice golden parachute when they leave no matter how much they fucked off during their time there. Instead of a medium between labor and corporate power, we have a system that's insanely disparate in favor of corporations. That's not good, and we shouldn't stand for it. But, because of thinking like this, that we NEED the corporations so badly we should kneel at their feet and beg for more abuse, it only gets worse.

---

Its corporations, wealth is spread out over a board of members, CEO, president ect. Who are yes, grossly overpaid. And with that gross overpay and access to a revenue stream they work to ensure the system that is currently in place, which favors large corporations and businesses stays in place and continues to favor them. IT works, it keeps the politicians they like well funded and hopefully for them, elected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by g0zen

Agreed. I, for one, don't want to have to worry that my power will be off about 10 hours out of the day because my state's privatized its power board and now some corporation is putting the squeeze on the grid so it can make even more obscene profits (Enron did this in California). The same goes for all utilities. Every time privatization has been introduced it's been a disaster for everyone but the corporation.

---

Which is why the system sucks. The reason its a disaster for everyone but the corporations is because they spend years (30 in Texas' case) lobbying law makers for subsidies, favors, grants, land, tax breaks and other goodies. Take Texas' deregulation bill, there's a "Stranded assets clause", which has been lobbied for since the 70's. During that same time a nuklear power plant has been built and finally completed in 2000-2001. They knew it was gonna be useless but it was built for $800 million. Since it was useless it qualified to be bought by the state under the stranded assets clause. They charged the state 1.2 billion for a plant that has never been used, is obsolete by today's standards and possibly useless in the future.

Businesses have rightly concluded, that the cost of doing business includes consistantly lobbying congress for their needs. If they want to maximize profit and reduce tax liablity for their earnings, they lobby for that. And the workers pay it out of their income taxes.

What i'm trying to say is: The system sucks but its definitely not new. If the citizeny wanted to stop it they would essentially have to counter lobby congress and provide either votes or money.

If you disagree see my sig.

I never said get rid of all taxes. I just see no reason for an Income Tax. We pay enough taxes in highway, clean air, paper, tobacco, gas, water, electric, etc. They take enough taxes out of our pay to provide the proper services. Its the Income tax that really gets at my craw.

Also, NJ is really thinking of this privitization thing, Not happy about it.

Yeah, Im not saying abolish taxes either. We obviously need them to function.

The whole gist of the video by the end of it seemed to be that it is wrong to let private bankers AKA the Federal Reserve/IRS be in charge of the making of money as it seems them being in control of it gives them some pretty specific powers in our government. Would it be a bad thing if our government created an agency to function in their place without any alterior motives? THAT agency created would still have to collect taxes, but at least we'd know who the people in charge of it were if it were an appointed office.

The North American Union and World Government thing towards the end of the video, I just dont think I buy yet. They make a couple of assumptions and throw a few world events and quotes into there that are kind of curious, showing it as a sign of the scary shady bankers.

ZOG!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dakidski

ZOG!

---

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7435/zodcy9.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dakidski

ZOG!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sphere79

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the trampling at the zoo
We've washed ourselves in niggers blood and all the mongrels too
WE'RE TEARING DOWN THE ZOG MACHINE JEW BY JEW BY JEW
The white man marches on!

---

The six Jew bankers FTW

Huahuahuahua

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarsKitten

Actually this is why I'm in favor of unions and workers rights. People are generally very stupid about their finances in the long run. Do you put 20-30% of your money aside for investment? Or even into a low risk money market fund?
Probally not, but if you're in a union at least you'll have a pension and hopefully won't get worked to death then ignored if you suddenly cannot work up to standards.

---

You get a pension that will probably get cut back thanks the Bankrupcy and how easy it is for companies to file for it.

Its bullshit really tracer. Its getting fucking impossible to work hard and assure your own future unless you join the corporate machine. No guarentees anymore in the United States. Pensions are not sacred any longer, can't dedicate yourself to a company and get taken care of.

Its no longer about the citizen but the corporation, like we've stated above.

Income tax should be abolished and sales tax increased. We should be taxed on our consumption, not our earning.

Income tax and inheritance tax needs to remain on the top 1% or else we'll end up with another era of Robber Barons...oh wait, we're already there aren't we?

Why the top 1% and not the top 2%?

Or 10 - that is the figure that gets thrown around so much, right? 10% of the population controlling 90% of the wealth?

Actually it's just the 1% that has the extraordinarily large section of the wealth in the society. They're the statistical outlier which generates the greatest disparity in American wealth.

Ahh Gozen I see you're not only proficient in the art of yelling loudly and pointing but you have also mastered libel. Hey, if sphere didn't ACTUALLY say anything hateful I'll just claim he did, since I KNOW what's going on in his head. Well, I REALLY must just hate Jews and Blacks, so much so that THIS is what happened when a co-worker sat in for a few minutes with my band last month. He's the dude playing bass, and he's Jewish.

The lyrics were written by three Jews, and it's in a Black genre of music. Criticize all you want, but obviously if I REALLY hated these people as you claim (without warrant) I wouldn't be playing their music. Feel free to continue saying otherwise, as if repeating it over and over somehow strengthens your arguements against me. Not to mention I've done Lionel Richie, Otis Redding, Living Colour, Al Green, and other good classic r+b and soul. Not that new shit though.

BACK ON TOPIC: I saw Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism and enjoyed it. (It was a torrent download in Divx) He got a bit Michael Mooreish at the end with the police tazer video but the rest was great. That is, he shows only the end of the video and implies that the lady was tazed for her reg expiring. She was pulled over for that reason, she was tazed because she was told repeatedly to get off her cell phone and get out of the vehicle and didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sphere79

Ahh Gozen I see you're not only proficient in the art of yelling loudly and pointing but you have also mastered libel. Hey, if sphere didn't ACTUALLY say anything hateful I'll just claim he did, since I KNOW what's going on in his head. Well, I REALLY must just hate Jews and Blacks, so much so that THIS is what happened when a co-worker sat in for a few minutes with my band last month. He's the dude playing bass, and he's Jewish.

The lyrics were written by three Jews, and it's in a Black genre of music. Criticize all you want, but obviously if I REALLY hated these people as you claim (without warrant) I wouldn't be playing their music. Feel free to continue saying otherwise, as if repeating it over and over somehow strengthens your arguements against me. Not to mention I've done Lionel Richie, Otis Redding, Living Colour, Al Green, and other good classic r+b and soul. Not that new shit though.

---

LOL

Why don't you just tell us how many black friends you have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

Why don't you just tell us how many black friends you have.

---

Or I could even post photos of me with them, or photos of me with such liberal icons as Ralph Nader or Jello Biafra. My point was that g0zen has NO CLUE what he's talking about when it comes to my personal life, or what is really going on in my head.

Far from being a fat piece of trash driving a beat up van and screaming anti Jewish and Black "white power" songs, I happened to have a recent recording of me doing pretty much just the opposite. I questioned whether or not I should post it, or whether or not I should even care.

And as I suspected, the fact that he made it look like I might have posted some ignorant shit isn't the problem. You can search this whole site and I've NEVER posted anything even remotely close to that, yet he just KNOWS I have a "thinly veiled" hatred of Black people. The fact that I made an attempt to show I'm quite the opposite is apparently the focus. Up is down, down is up, right is left, etc.

Yea, I know - it doesn't "prove" anything, though it should put an end to any association of me with the "Stormfront.org" crowd - as I suspect I'd be labeled a "race-traitor" pretty damn quick by most of them. And really, they're just jealous of my ability to flow.;) Bottom line, I respect and admire elements from alot of different cultures, but it doesn't mean I have to bow down and submit to any of them.

Y'all should watch a documentary called The Corporation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sphere79

Ahh Gozen I see you're not only proficient in the art of yelling loudly and pointing but you have also mastered libel. Hey, if sphere didn't ACTUALLY say anything hateful I'll just claim he did, since I KNOW what's going on in his head. Well, I REALLY must just hate Jews and Blacks, so much so that THIS is what happened when a co-worker sat in for a few minutes with my band last month. He's the dude playing bass, and he's Jewish.

The lyrics were written by three Jews, and it's in a Black genre of music. Criticize all you want, but obviously if I REALLY hated these people as you claim (without warrant) I wouldn't be playing their music. Feel free to continue saying otherwise, as if repeating it over and over somehow strengthens your arguements against me. Not to mention I've done Lionel Richie, Otis Redding, Living Colour, Al Green, and other good classic r+b and soul. Not that new shit though.

---

........what in the fuck are you even talking about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icarusfall

Y'all should watch a documentary called The Corporation.

---

Seen that one too, I thought it was actually produced better than Freedom to Fascism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jetman

........what in the fuck are you even talking about?

---

I DON'T KNOW!!! I'VE LOST MY MIND AND AM RANTING CRAZILY AND UNCONTROLLABLY!!!!!!!

Oh wait it was these lyrics falsely attributed to me:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by g0zen

Originally Posted by sphere79 (as dreamed by g0zen)
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the trampling at the zoo
We've washed ourselves in niggers blood and all the mongrels too
WE'RE TEARING DOWN THE ZOG MACHINE JEW BY JEW BY JEW
The white man marches on!

---

LOL, and I thought Biff tried too hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

Why don't you just tell us how many black friends you have.

---

www.blackpeopleloveus.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icarusfall

Y'all should watch a documentary called The Corporation.

---

Seen it. Good stuff.

So you're saying your the king of those race traitors over at stormfront Sphere?

I hear he hates black people. Also: Jews.

Edit: I found proof...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sphere79

I hate black people. Also: Jews.

---

OMG CONFIRMEDS!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

I hear he hates black people. Also: Jews.

Edit: I found proof...

---

I'm afraid of black people. I hear they want to steal my bike.

Also: your TV.

Nobody wants to steal my TV, it sucks. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jetman

The North American Union and World Government thing towards the end of the video, I just dont think I buy yet. They make a couple of assumptions and throw a few world events and quotes into there that are kind of curious, showing it as a sign of the scary shady bankers.

---

What, you mean this?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7435/zodcy9.jpg

---

I thought his name was ZOD...

Your mothers name is ZOD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

What, you mean this?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

---

This is scary, awful shit, and no one cares because it's politics and it has big words. Fuck everyone that doesn't read this article and start hating what's going on enough to shit themselves a soapbox that they can start to stand on.

This is coming:

http://www.nascocorridor.com/new_hom...me_page_09.jpg

And you're all going to be spending Ameros instead of dollars.

Tommy Tallarico

Was fascism really so bad? Democracy has gotten boring IMO.

Canada is a British sovereign state. In order for us to join any union like the one that's speculated on in that article they would have to free us from it. We should join the European Union. That'd really fuck people up.

Let me put it this way, would the American people have put up with Bush/Cheney Bullshit even 30 years ago? How about in the Nixon era?

No. No they wouldn't.

This country has changed, whether you, as a citizen feel that change affects you negatively, or enough to even bat an eyelash is up to you. But we are changing, slowly into one giant corporation. Eventually we will all have a boss, and not a government, we will no longer have elected officials (Or like now, they will spend so much time fighting with each other over inane bullshit they will be powerless to do anything).

But its nothing new. Its been like this since Kennedy's assassination. Nothing conspiritorial about it, the slow downgrade of a society that doesn't want to believe the horror's its own government is capable have disciplined themselves as a collective society to respond to these lapses by turning a blind eye to them. This is how we grew up, in a society adjusting to that mentality. After Kennedy the government realized, it didn't have to give the real answer, lies were enough all the way to now, where they no longer even have to give a lie, nothing at all is enough.

Nothing new about any of this guys, they've been breeding the public for years to be inadequate in their own job markets, so they could use it as a reason to get cheap help overseas, and now its a shock that the government is run by CEO's? Come on.

Even I can't settle for that level of naivety, and I'm a conspiracy theorist.

OMG, let's get Bill Clinton back in office, he was so MUCH more effective.


Both parties in this country suck fucking dick.

As a nation we have degraded to the same society we REBELLED AGAINST to start this country.

Nobody gives a fuck about what's going on, everybody is me first, We impose our will on the world, etc.

Oh yeah, and 95% of you are uneducated and can't really understand what I mean.


Hey guys, instead of reading about who rocks the fucking hardest or who got a fucking nosejob, read about the Roman empire and understand we are due to suffer the SAME EXACT fate, and it's because of YOU.

Thanks for saying the same thing I just said, only with less words, and more spaces.

read it again sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

read it again sir.

---

Ahh I see.

Yeah and I still think we said the same thing man. Which is "WAKE UP FUCKFACES." I was more specific to the topic, but yeah.

Doesn't matter which side of the fence that message comes from Biff as long as someone hears it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

Thanks for saying the same thing I just said, only with less words, and more spaces.

---

Well allow me to add that we have moved from a nation of workers with drive into a nation of lazy bastards expecting handouts. I busted my ass to get through school, blah ,blah. I speak 3 languages, I read the history of all nations, you know why? Because the rest of the fucking world does it and we are so god damn ignorant that we just ignore it. Well this isn't like your baby brother, China isn't going away, neither is Russia, or even Iran for that matter.

They want it more than we do, and that's sad.

balls

Buttcheeks, go away, you're not equipped to stay on this level.

K I did considerably less than you in school, as did most people.

We are agreeing here, ok?

My point is this isn't new Biff. This is the disenfranchised public of the 60's who bred and raised their children to be even more disenfranchised. This is a government who over the last 30 years has realized how easy it is to scare people into giving you more power. And we have arrived now, in this generation, at the age where the corporations who run this government have realized how easy it will be for them to get all the cheap labor they want. Its not fair competition with those nations Biff, its the our own government selling us for 20 cents on the dollar, after spending the last 30 years siphoning the fight right out of us.

Y'know who used to scream this shit in the 70's? George Carlin. Go and listen to his rants about this, and tell me we have not now just arrived at the society he was talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

K I did considerably less than you in school, as did most people.

We are agreeing here, ok?

My point is this isn't new Biff. This is the disenfranchised public of the 60's who bred and raised their children to be even more disenfranchised. This is a government who over the last 30 years has realized how easy it is to scare people into giving you more power. And we have arrived now, in this generation, at the age where the corporations who run this government have realized how easy it will be for them to get all the cheap labor they want. Its not fair competition with those nations Biff, its the our own government selling us for 20 cents on the dollar, after spending the last 30 years siphoning the fight right out of us.

Y'know who used to scream this shit in the 70's? George Carlin. Go and listen to his rants about this, and tell me we have not now just arrived at the society he was talking about.

---

First off, I fucking LOVE George Carlin, best comedian of our time that nobody respects.

Bullshit, this society regressed because of the end of abundance of money for menial jobs, period. When our dads were kids they could walk into GM and make a good living. Now we can't, and we haven't adjusted as a whole. For every person who busts his ass, there are 3 (kano, Gozen, Compass for example) who rip him for saying he did it. I'm proud I took the time to make a good life for myself, and believe it or not, I want to same for all of you.

However sitting on your couch and waiting for shit to happen is EXACTLY what happened to Rome, and Greece, etc.

I'd rather just play music, satisfy my soul, and scrape by until I get to the end of this part.

Fair enough, but don't you even have the most minute desire to acheive success in life? I'll be honest, I respect your choice, but I don't understand it.

What are you going to do when some overqualified college grad that can't find a job in his field takes yours?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

First off, I fucking LOVE George Carlin, best comedian of our time that nobody respects.

Bullshit, this society regressed because of the abundance of money for menial jobs, period. When our dads were kids they could walk into GM and make a good living. Now we can't, and we haven't adjusted as a whole. For every person who busts his ass, there are 3 (kano, Gozen, Compass for example) who rip him for saying it. I'm proud I took the time to make a good life for myself, and believe it or not, I want to same for all of you.

However sitting on your couch and waiting for shit to happen is EXACTLY what happened to Rome, and Greece, etc.

---

I just can't agree man, and maybe its because I'm trying to do what you did right now, and those opportunities my mother speaks about, and my uncle speaks about, and you speak about, just are not there anymore. There is something for never giving up. No one should. But at the same time we live in a society where there is no where near the protection my parents had, no where near the reward, the chances, they had.

I just did the math the other day, and found out that I would have to work at least 65 hours a week at a 10 dollar and hour job to maintain thi state of near poverty around here. There is no going up. There is only switching to the same pay rate a different job nowadays. Now do I risk putting myself $50,000 dollar's in debt to get a different set of job skills? Or do I accept my role of just getting by in life?

Keep in mind here I am aware there are ways out of this stuff Biff, there always are. But please don't say spit, sweat, and hard work are all you need anymore. This system is designed in every single way to favor those who already have what they want and need, and with that, comes the power for those same people to stomp on the necks of those trying to burn their way into their world. It does not favor or recognize hard work. Look at our last 4 presidents for chrissake.

I believe society as a whole, the American way of life both them and you remember was burned at the stake years ago, and those who got to live it aren't aware of it because they are passed it, and those who knew about it, are still waiting for it to come about, and those who are oblivious to it, won't miss a thing when they are supervising a McDonald's (Nothing wrong with that if it pays well mind you, I'm just using it as an example) in 10 years.

We define success differently. I satisfy the drive in me to create music while making sure my wife and I can eat - that's success. When you hear the perfect vocal line over a great riff I'd imagine we hear different things. It resonates through my whole being and makes the bad shit I've been through ok. Sounds stupid, but the beauty makes life worth living - it doesn't happen often, and when it does it's fleeting, so I'm always searching. And hoping to catch another perfect melody before it's time to move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icarusfall

We define success differently. I satisfy the drive in me to create music while making sure my wife and I can eat - that's success. When you hear the perfect vocal line over a great riff I'd imagine we hear different things. It resonates through my whole being and makes the bad shit I've been through ok. Sounds stupid, but the beauty makes life worth living - it doesn't happen often, and when it does it's fleeting, so I'm always searching. And hoping to catch another perfect melody before it's time to move on.

---

Not stupid even in the least bit. We are all built differently, and thank god because some of you witty fucks would kill me in the boardroom.

Also, I play guitar, I'm sure I suck compared to you, but I do understand the distinct satisfaction of playing Tree Top Flyer correctly the first time, it's orgasmic so to speak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

I just can't agree man, and maybe its because I'm trying to do what you did right now, and those opportunities my mother speaks about, and my uncle speaks about, and you speak about, just are not there anymore. There is something for never giving up. No one should. But at the same time we live in a society where there is no where near the protection my parents had, no where near the reward, the chances, they had.

I just did the math the other day, and found out that I would have to work at least 65 hours a week at a 10 dollar and hour job to maintain thi state of near poverty around here. There is no going up. There is only switching to the same pay rate a different job nowadays. Now do I risk putting myself $50,000 dollar's in debt to get a different set of job skills? Or do I accept my role of just getting by in life?

Keep in mind here I am aware there are ways out of this stuff Biff, there always are. But please don't say spit, sweat, and hard work are all you need anymore. This system is designed in every single way to favor those who already have what they want and need, and with that, comes the power for those same people to stomp on the necks of those trying to burn their way into their world. It does not favor or recognize hard work. Look at our last 4 presidents for chrissake.

I believe society as a whole, the American way of life both them and you remember was burned at the stake years ago, and those who got to live it aren't aware of it because they are passed it, and those who knew about it, are still waiting for it to come about, and those who are oblivious to it, won't miss a thing when they are supervising a McDonald's (Nothing wrong with that if it pays well mind you, I'm just using it as an example) in 10 years.

---

Nobody handed me a God Damn thing YAWA, I earned it. You are a smart man, perhaps the smartest on this board imo. If you can't do it, it's because you have Can't Disease. There is NO fucking such thing as I can't. You won't try, man up and admit it.

I appreciate the compliment. Keep in mind I was speaking rhetorically here. I said in the third paragraph, that there were ways out. I'm speaking for the state of society, and using examples, not for myself.

And hey your quite reasonable tonight, the Indians must be smoking hot right now : ). I'm quite down trodden, as you can see the Red Sox are dying on their way to the finish line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

I appreciate the compliment. Keep in mind I was speaking rhetorically here. I said in the third paragraph, that there were ways out. I'm speaking for the state of society, and using examples, not for myself.

And hey your quite reasonable tonight, the Indians must be smoking hot right now : ). I'm quite down trodden, as you can see the Red Sox are dying on their way to the finish line.

---

We'll take the latter to the baseball thread. As for the former, networking is the secret to success in life. You have obtained my interest, and I can help you HELP yourself. You know why? Because you'd never ask me for a job.

If we ever run in the same circle (this world is small) you'll have my support sir.

Look, is an American continental empire so bad? Buy into the current system, become apart of it, and profit. Is it really a bad thing that most people are just fine with being sheep? Because what people REALLY want is one day being more or less like the last, with the promise of a good day every so often.

People don't want revolutions until their standard of living gets bad. Yes it sucks, but try and put yourselves where the system works for you. Let the sheep work the shitty jobs, while you, mr. intelligence work some interesting and over paid job someplace.

Objection.

What is your basis of "standard of living gets bad"

Are you implying that humanity has a clear definition of this standard of living?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarsKitten

Let the sheep work the shitty jobs, while you, mr. intelligence work some interesting and over paid job someplace.

---

would you be talking like this had you not gotten into law school?

btw, the interesting and over paid jobs are slowly leaving the country with the shitty, boring and hard jobs. Even as an EE i will be lucky to find work when I'm done with school. I don't want to do research, I want to design audio equipment. The investment firms would like to send all those jobs to china to slubs that barely understand what they are doing. I'm probably going to have to go back to school when I'm done to get at least a MBA and learn Chinese or Indian just to keep a good EE job in audio. And I'm LUCKY. I've already got my foot in the door for audio design.

I wish we could out source our lawyers and politicians.

EE's get hired their junior year noob, they are in the HIGHEST level of demand. You will be fine. I mean your job matters, it's not like you are just adding another number to the fucking law or marketing till.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

EE's get hired their junior year noob, they are in the HIGHEST level of demand. You will be fine. I mean your job matters, it's not like you are just adding another number to the fucking law or marketing till.

---

not in what I want to do. I do not want to design faggy digital whozits. I want to design guitar amps and guitar related products. More and more of that is going to china.

No, design is here, production is in china. Jesus when did you fall of the turnip truck, plant?

I agree with Biff. If you work hard enough, and have a little bit of luck you'll be able to make things move in your life. If you feel like you're butting your head up against a wall because of the way things are structured you've already given up way too much confidence and optimism.

I'm a successful graphic designer right now at age 23 with a fat bank account and a nice life in general. When I first started everyone told me not to do it because the job market was filled to shit. They were right, it was. I couldn't even get interviews when I first started out. They all wanted PHP and web experience. I finally got 2 interviews. I phoned the job I have now probably 4 times a week to get updates. Turns out some TWO OTHER jackasses got hired over me and both didn't work out (which is why they kept me on the hook). The only reason I even got a shot was because I kept reminding them I existed. The other two guys in the position before me clearly forged their portfolio's to get the job. So my hard work payed off.

But not everyone has it in them to persist and work through the issues. It's easier just to say that it's hopeless. And some people just want to get drunk every night and listen to music, or watch TV, or hang out with friends. I respect that, but I personally don't want that. I want to build something for myself and other people around me. I don't know if I'll ever achieve that goal, but I'll never give up trying -- even if I have to do all the work myself. People in my office tell me I'm crazy because I don't want to win the lottery. If I get filthy rich I want to do it because I made it happen, not because I had it handed to me.

It all just comes down to what kind of person you are and what drives you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

No, design is here, production is in china. Jesus when did you fall of the turnip truck, plant?

---

I've worked in the design depart of the second largest audio manufacture in the world. Unless you work for #1, I know more about it than you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buttcheeks

I've worked in the design depart of the second largest audio manufacture in the world. Unless you work for #1, I know more about it than you.

---

Let's see Buttcheeks, I was an engineer for GM and Philips Medical, who I think shit all over your #2 audio company.

Oh yeah, and now i work for a company in the top 10 in the WORLD, don't give me your bullshit, work harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

Let's see Buttcheeks, I was an engineer for GM and Philips Medical, who I think shit all over your #2 audio company.

Oh yeah, and now i work for a company in the top 10 in the WORLD, don't give me your bullshit, work harder.

---

dude, fuck you. fucking cars and medical equipment are not audio, we are talking about three different types of consumer goods, that each have diffirient demands, requirements, and markets.

this is why half the board thinks you are full of shit. You generalize your own experience from years ago, to apply to now, to everything.

And fuck you gozen. I already know what you want to say.

I'm curious what gozen has to say.

something about kettles, pots, and things being of a darkish color

That's racist.

All I have to say is this Horatio Algiers bullshit coming from white bread middle class kids who now have corporate drone jobs they were spoon-fed is the height of irony. You didn't rise from nothing to be successful; you had the world laid out before you on a silver platter and now for you to think you have any right to talk condescendingly to everyone else with this "oh if you just try real hard you'll realize all your dreams, like me" crap shows how small your fucking world really is, and how much everything that comes from your mouth is pure dogshit.

EDIT: This is directed mostly at Biff, since Andrew is just a failed comic artist trying everyday to live down the shame that is Robobo.

LOLZ

Careers are for losers. ;)

I recently achieved what I consider to be success; I economised to the extent that I can now live a life in which I'm very happy by working part-time.

Gives me more time to read, play music, smoke, drink beer and work on my Business Plan. Heh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by red_war_machine

Careers are for losers. ;)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by red_war_machine

And work on my business plan

---

Uh, k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biff-chan

Objection.

What is your basis of "standard of living gets bad"

Are you implying that humanity has a clear definition of this standard of living?

---

No, but i think that even in the worst cities in the united states, no one seriously would revolt. Cable tv, heat/ac and running water tend to keep people happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buttcheeks

would you be talking like this had you not gotten into law school?

btw, the interesting and over paid jobs are slowly leaving the country with the shitty, boring and hard jobs. Even as an EE i will be lucky to find work when I'm done with school. I don't want to do research, I want to design audio equipment. The investment firms would like to send all those jobs to china to slubs that barely understand what they are doing. I'm probably going to have to go back to school when I'm done to get at least a MBA and learn Chinese or Indian just to keep a good EE job in audio. And I'm LUCKY. I've already got my foot in the door for audio design.

I wish we could out source our lawyers and politicians.

---

Ah yes, if i hadn't, but I did because I had a good family help me goto college and now i'm paying thru law school with loans and a free room due to said family. Self made? hardly, but i'm making damn good on it. I'll be making more than both my parents do in my first year practicing law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by red_war_machine

Careers are for losers. ;)

I recently achieved what I consider to be success; I economised to the extent that I can now live a life in which I'm very happy by working part-time.

Gives me more time to read, play music, smoke, drink beer and work on my Business Plan. Heh.

---

That was plan B for me. Good to know it works.

I can't wait to decend from something to nothing. I am coming out of college with a double degree in economics, japanese, minors in computers and music.

And I'm going to move into my mom's basement, not get a job unless I really have to, and live with no tv or internet. Its going to be fucking great, I'm already excited.

I oppose the creation of an American continent because I don't want our awesome culture to be diluted and washed away. We have some shitty parts to our culture too, but there are some really great things going on too, that might not be going on anywhere else in the world.