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In the NeoZeedeater thread where Shinobi III is rightly getting its ass handed to it by Dracula X, Cheebs made a bold statement that Shinobi III was the Genesis' best action game. Is he right? If not, what is?
I already called you unbathed in the other thread if you pick Gunstar Heroes.
Sewer Shark
Sorry...I have to pick it...Gunstar Heroes FTW. Followed closely by Sonic 1 & 2.
Sonic is not an action game, unbathed.
It's always hard to separate favorite from best, but the three favorites of mine that come to mind are...
http://sega-16.com/Reviews/Genesis/C...ines/Cover.jpg http://sega-16.com/Reviews/Genesis/S...ncer/Cover.jpg http://sega-16.com/Reviews/Genesis/Strider/Cover.jpg
Shadow Dancer is the worst of the Genesis Shinobi's. Bloodlines isn't too hot,either. I just couldn't go from CV4 the that game. Strider was good but short.
I'll go with:
1- Ghouls n Ghosts(no its not a platformer)
2- Vectorman
3- Streets of Rage 2
That's why I made the statement about favorite vs best. Objectively, Shadow Dancer isn't as good as Shinobi III, but I like it more.
I can't believe I forgot about Streets of Rage.
Gotcha!
Well...I'll still go with Gunstar...don't know how many times I played through that. Most of my other Genny games were platformers though...with a little Landstalker and Beyond Oasis added for spice. Ahhh....the days of old.
A guy with a Haohmaru avatar can't be all bad.
Thanks Yoshi...this lurker appreciates it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Shinobi III is right up there. I've also got to mention Ranger X and Gunstar Heroes as contenders.
Just to add something new here:
Rocket Knight Adventures
Pulseman
Both games share similar bounce-off-the-wall playmechanics.
We've gone too many posts without mentioning Contra: Hard Corps, though I am glas to see RKA brought up.
Here's how I'd rank my favorite Genesis action games, in groups..
Best: G U N S T A R H E R O E S, Shinobi 3, Revenge of Shinobi, Vectorman, Ranger-X, Adventures of Batman and Robin, Alien Soldier, Strider
Great: Alien 3, Rolling Thunder 2, Valis 3, Alisia Dragoon, Shadow Dancer, Target: Earth, El Viento, Contra Hard Corps
Honorable mention: Rolling Thunder 3, Pulseman, Vectorman 2, E-SWAT, Castlevania Bloodlines, Midnight Resistance.. and Altered Beast.
Singling out Shinobi 3 in a sea of the best action games of the 16-bit console era is just selling the library short.
If Treasure's logo came before the title screen of E-SWAT and not Alien Solider, those would be switched. There is no way Alien Soldier is better than Contra.
Ex-Ranza, Streets of Rage 2, and Comix Zone
How's Alien Soldier?
Alien Soldier is a boss rush with no more meat on it. If it weren't a Treasure game, it would get next to no attention. It's not bad, but it certainly isn't great either.
Not better than Contra HC, apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by dementia_
EDIT: And if I'm an oblivious fan of any game developer's products.. it would have to be of 16-bit era Telenet/Wolfteam's (don't ask why), not Treasure's.
IBTN
Gunstar, Ranger-X, and Streets of Rage 2 for me.
Probably because 16-bit era Telenet/Wolfteam was better than Treasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taito
I don't consider Streets of Rage 2 an action game per se. I put it in its own genre of "beat'em ups."
My top Genesis action games:
1. Shinobi III (tie)
1. Gunstar Heroes (tie)
2. Castlevania: Bloodlines
Mikey Mania
For God's sake, somebody stop him!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
http://flakmag.com/misc/images/lifecer.jpg
Action is broad category that includes multiple genres (platformers, beat 'em ups, shooters, FPS). I know this thread is referring to a certain type of action game but technically it wasn't specified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Yes. :) I would probably put Strider second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Unlike the excellent Contra: Hard Corps, Bloodlines has no business being listed in any best category.
Aside from arcade ports, Shinobi III and Ranger-X. It took me this thread to realize that I haven't played as many Genesis games as I'd like to have played, though.
Eh, I don't know about that. Then again, I have a pretty hard time getting into the "best v. favorite" thing.Quote:
Objectively, Shadow Dancer isn't as good as Shinobi III
Exactly. If lots of games did that it might get annoying, but bosses are usually the best part of a game anyway so why not have something which is nothing but the best parts every once in a while? It's like an evolved boss rush in the days before that was anything except the occasional lead-up to a final boss (Remember the first five bosses? Fight them again!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sqoon
Best Genesis-Only Castlevania Game(s)?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
I haven't played Shinobi III, I should probably get on that. Actually, I've never really played any of the Shinobi games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqoon
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Normy's Beach Babe-O-Rama
No wait.
Contra: Hard Corps is probably my choice. Gunstar Heroes felt sloppy.
Subject to change on a moment's notice, but anyway:
Best
Gunstar Heroes - saying otherwise is just lying to yourself
Shinobi III
Alien Soldier - haters die
Favorites (not in order of preference)
Gunstar Heroes/Alien Soldier
Mega Turrican
Shinobi III
Golden Axe
Target: Earth IMO
Vectorman FTW
..Kid Chameleon count?
That's backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoyd
Gunstar Heroes and Contra: Hard Corps are tops on my best action game list. I remember Shinobi 3 being very good, but it didn't blow me away like Gunstar and Contra did.
Genesis was so amazing. I cannot pick just one. So much better than SNES.
IBTN
Gunstar Heroes I guess. I can't think of anything else on that system I played as much, or enjoyed as much.
Alien Soldier is trash though.
I stick by my choice of Shinobi III.
Alien Soldier
Shinobi III
Best semi-exclusive: Mega Turrican
Best arcade port: Strider
I like Shinobi 3, but I think the bosses are way too easy. Ditto for Gunstar Heroes.
I really can't pick. It's been so long since I've played them that I can't make a sound judgement.
Just on gut feeling, I'd say Shinobi III.
It's nice to see Ranger-X getting some appreciation, though.
I've always thought that Mystic Defender was very underrated, although nowhere near 'best' status.
Anyone here remember that Gargoyles game for Genesis?
I've heard good things about it, but never got a chance to play it when I had a Genesis. I'd emulate it myself, but I've yet to find a decent MD/Gen emu for OSX.
Alien Soldier for really. Gunstar close behind. Also much love to Vectorman, Earthworm Jim, Turrican, and Shonobi IIII love both, but there's no way Sol Deace and El Viento are better than Alien Soldier, Gunstar, or even Headdy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Wasn't this developed by Treasure too?
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1170705760
This is a pretty retarded statement. In terms of "meat" there's a lot more to AS than anything else in the genre. What other run and gun has as deep or complex a system? The fact that it's boss-heavy just gives it a no-filler feel, too. Contra Hard Corps is just as boss heavy, incidentally, but not half as deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Basically, if Contra is Kung Fu Master, then Alien Soldier is Street Fighter 2. It took it to another level.Yep. Developed simultaneously with Gunstar to help fund its development, and released on the same day. It's a decent game, too. Nothing special, but it's fun. Kind of a prototype for Headdy in a lot of ways. Light Crusader was also theirs but I don't care for that one much at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
Nobody has mentioned Aladdin, Dynamite Headdy, Ristar, Sunset Riders, or Zombies Ate My Neighbors (those might not all count as action games).
Multiplatform games shouldn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Sunset Riders was a different game on Genesis.
Shinobi 3 - A tad easier than Revenge of Shinobi but still as good. The added techniques like the wall bounce are fun to use.
Streets of Rage 2 - Simply awesome.
Streets of Rage 3 - Yes, even the soundtrack is good IMO. OTOH, the voices suck in comparison to 2. The only major negative is that Max is gone.
Rolling Thunder 2 - The PCB is better in some ways, but you get 3 extra stages and some bosses here. Great soundtrack, especially "View of Dynamism" and the boss BGM "Showdown".
Rolling Thunder 3 - Good sequel to RT2 with some nice special weapons and a knife as a backup.
Granada - Good tank game from the X68000, somewhat like Assault minus the Mode 7.
Gunstar Heroes - No explanation necessary.
I can't recall one good game period for the Genesis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Too much alcohol fries your brain cells.
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
i love me some Ristar. i never got into Contra HC or Castlevania BL. they just seemed junky and half assed compared to the SNES games. keep in mind i bought a Genesis before an SNES and loved the graphics for both in their own ways but something about those two on the Genny seemed off. hard for me to explain. Shinobi 3 to me at least was/is the bees knees. the only shinobi (besides the first) that i can go back to time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Contra:HC owns all. It's not only the best action game on the Genny, it's the best action game ever. Treasure did make some great games(Gunstar Heroes) but they really were over hyped.
You need to play more video games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
Telenet/Wolfteam clearly had more duds on the Genesis than Treasure.. not that I care.. oblivious fanboy here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Yeah. Anyone who rates Telenet/Wolfteam over Treasure in the 16-bit days does not deserve to be taken seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taito
Not to imply that anyone ever took Yoshi's opinion's seriously to begin with, of course.
im sure he does. does he count?Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
No, you just need to wake up and get the Gunstar tunnel vision looked at. It's taken its toll on your gaming experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/wiki/SleeveboyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dyne
dude, i so deleted that post. you have devil powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
That's because they released around three times as many games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taito
I don't know about Telenet/Wofteam being better than Treasure, but I can say that Treasure was a bit overrated during the Genesis era. Sure, Gunstar Heroes is one of the best 16-bit titles ever made, but then you had stuff like Light Crusader and McDonald's Treasure Land. Not bad games per se, but not the stuff of legend people tend to associate with the name.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
I'm not even talking about Gunstar Heroes. I'm talking about the bold (and ridiculous) statement you made about Contra: Hard Corps being the "best action game ever" when there are a ton of action titles out there better than it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taito
European run 'n guns are quite underrated. Alien 3 and Mega Turrican are awesome. Robocop vs The Terminator is also great.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
And Yoshi has proven himself insane by his comments in this thread.
You need to narrow that down a bit, and I need to play the European run 'n gun games you mentioned. I don't think I've played any of them.
I wasn't serious on that particular comment. However, Contra HC is better than Alien Soldier.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
It was mostly the Telenet/Wolfteam > Treasure comment which I figured you were serious about. I'm not as much of a Treasure nut as some others here but there's no denying Gunstar and Alien Soldier are very well made games even if you think they're overrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Also, while I don't think it's insane to be a fan of Castlevania: Bloodlines, I'm surprised you rank it in your top 3, and above IV and Contra: HC. I figured most people considered it a weak game in the series.
Start with Mega Turrican. You'll love it. Super Turrican on the SNES is worthy as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I'm one of those people that think that Gunstar Heroes is very overrated. It's fun, but I think that it's not the end-all be-all title that everyone thinks it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
CV: Bloodlines might not be the best in the series, but it's still badass. I mean, c'mon, carcasses on meathooks, the blood lake, the fountain, and some wicked bosses.
Also, overhyped Treasure may be, but any who believe they see weakness in Gunstar Heroes see no weakness but their own.
I think that the thing about GH is that it did everything a run-'n-gun from the 16-bit era should do. The visuals, special effects, balls-to-the-wall action, two-player mode (throwing each other at foes? Awesome!), variety of level design, etc. It might seem cliche now, but nothing else released at the time could come close. It definitely out-Contra(ed?) Contra.Quote:
Originally Posted by FX
I really think the Bloodlines hate stems from nostalgia over Castlevania 4's music and scaling effects. I'm guessing most people saw a couple screenshots and skipped the game entirely.
It seems most people that bash it give reasons why they don't like it so I don't think it's from not playing it.
This thread did make me dig the game out of my closet to play it again today. It actually is better than I remembered it being although I still wouldn't put it up there with the Genesis' best.
You tend to be remembered by the good and not the bad. Headdy, Alien Soldier, and Gunstar are all amazing, very memorable, graphically impressive games that really are some of the best things on the system, or at least the most memorable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Treasure's 16 bit games had a lot of really creative hardware use, great effects, giant bosses, creative level design. At the end of the day, they are just action games. They aren't deep (though AS is for its genre), they're not emotional, but for pure side scrolling action, I don't think you could do much better.Dude, I don't even like Castlevania IV. Bloodlines just stinks. Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
i've been playing a lot of pulse man lately and i think it's turning out to be one of my all time fave games on the system. too bad there were no sequals. also, monster world 4 comes to mind. anyway, i think shinobi 3 would top my list of bests.
Anyone else a fan of Mystic Defender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FX
I don't care if it is or not. I've never had a bad time playing it. I give it a thumbs up.
A lot of people talk shit up too much... you know?
Yes. I agree with what kedawa said about it earlier. It's not one of the very best on the system but definitely underrated. I thought it was a big improvement over Spellcaster in control and art direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korian
I just played Castlevania IV and Bloodlines back-to-back (been a while since I played either) and I'm honestly baffled that people would say IV rules and Bloodlines sucks. Bloodlines is faster, looks better, has cooler scenes, great soundtrack, good challenge, and has two characters to play as that are both great. IV looks awful for a SFC game and is slow as shit. Soundtrack is good and it plays solid, but it's in no way better than Bloodlines.
I still think it's overrated. I played it shortly after it came out and still didn't care for it. But hey, I'm in the minority here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasteel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaneda
This leads me to believe you might be insane. Bloodlines looks like almost an 8-bit game it does not look better than IV. Ok maybe not that bad but it does not look better than IV.
Bloodlines looks smoother and has better colors (stage 2's water in particular looks great), IV just looks like a mess. Obviously, there's going to be parts in one that look better than parts in the other, but overall, and especially when considering each system's capabilities, IV looks like shit. Try playing them side-by-side rather than basing your opinions off of selective, nostalgic memories.
I'm not basing it on selective nostalgic memories. IV had more colors, bigger sprites, and just looked better over all. Most areas of Bloodlines looked horrible. IV was also a first generation SNES title, bloodlines came out quite late in the genesis lifespan, and should have looked a lot better than it did. I've done comparisons with these two games before, every time a thread like this comes up, I don't need to do it for a 5th time.
Castlevania Bloodlines:
http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/img/cv_10.gif
Castlevania IV:
http://www.playright.dk/screens/supe...iv_snes_01.png
I still don't see how Bloodlines looks worse; neither game looks especially great but Bloodlines had better art direction IMO (I always loved the reflections in the water).
At least Bloodlines has, well, blood. That seems to make sense in a vampire game.
No, when I first played it (years after the fact, mind you) the only remarkable thing that struck me was seeing the origins of some of SOTN's sprite rips. I didn't much like the feel of the game, but I also thought IV was too slow for its own good (and I didn't play that one until years later as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I had a hard time getting into any Castlevania games pre-SOTN, I guess I'm just more of a Contra/Gunstar/Ninja Gaiden kind of guy.
[edit] Er, not any Castlevania game, I recall Rondo being fun and I liked X68000. Why those fared better for me compared to, say, Castlevania III I have no idea.
I'd consider Herzog Zwei an action RTS. If this game could be included on the list, I'd put it at the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Playing them again side-by-side didn't change my opinions much of the graphics but it made me realize I was too harsh on Bloodlines' gameplay. The control, speed, and feel are really well done. It's not often that I like a 16-bit game more than I did back in the day but I admit I underestimated Bloodlines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaneda
Bloodlines characters are tiny and its palette is awful. The character design is campy too. But also, it's important to remember that Bloodlines came out a good 3 or 4 years after CV4. CV4 is very rough looking too, but it was probably the first 16 bit game many of them had worked on. Bloodlines has no excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Also that reflection effect is kind of terrible. It only reflects certain thing, and somehow doesn't reflect the sun. It just looks bizarre.
LAST BATTLE!
if you were one of the few who suffered through the countless hells and endless swarms of lame enemies to see the credits roll as you drove away on your horse with the multiple levels of parallax rolling by in the background, then you know what i'm talking about.
The sun is reflected in that picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
i didn't notice it at first but when you said it was, i looked REALLY hard......and sure enough it's smushed in with the mountain sprite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
It's still better than the water reflections in Halo 2, which only reflected the sky.
No, it's not. You're blind. The water line starts below the characters. It's all purple there. If it reflected the sky it would look like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1170808696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
oh shit.....now you're right. goddamn the crappy Bloodlines graphics.
That's really nitpicking. WHAT ABOUT THE ROTATING DUNGEON IN SCIV THAT HAS NO BACKGROUND!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
from what i remember of bloodlines, the colors just seemed to be brighter than what was used in castlevania 4. also, alot of the stages in cv4 were just kinda brown. i like both games, though...but i live cv4 just a little more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Aside from being on 1989 hardware instead of 1991 hardware?
It's that kind of nitpicking that gives the impression you don't want to like Bloodlines. The game had soul and played like pure old school CV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
the SNES had a slower cpu even though it was released later. what's your point? i really don't think that span of 2 years had much to do with the designs of the systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
also they were originally released in '88 and '90.
The SNES had a completely gimped CPU, yes, but it also had a much larger color palette and neat stuff like Mode 7 scaling and rotation built into the hardware and an awesome sound chip. Take away CV4's great sound, scaling effects, and more vibrant colors and the comparison becomes ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonmaster Dyne
If you said how awesome the background was in that part, I'd have brought that up, too. It's not nitpicking in response to declaring how awesome the reflection effect was. It was half-assed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Rondo of Blood is on a system with an even more gimped CPU and the same palette as Genesis. And yet it looks MUCH better than Bloodlines.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
The TG can display half its color palate whereas the Genny can only do 64 colors without tricks. Also, wasn't the TG processor more or less the same speed as the Genny's?