Amen Spo, well said, well said indeed...
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Amen Spo, well said, well said indeed...
Ruth didn't compete against blacks, or hispanics and asians for that matter. Barry's peers are the best baseball players world wide, identified through huge organizations set up to find and develop this talent. Ruth played against the guys who were pretty good in the local beer league and tried out.
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Originally Posted by stormy
That's not even the point of the discussion, Gohron said "Old players would suck nowadays" I said "No shit" then I explained some reasons why, you are just helping my argument, thanks! :)
Spo said the test of greatness is one's performance against their peers, so I made the point that Bond's peers are much better collectively than Ruth's because of the talent pool.
Right, but that's balanced out by the fact that Bonds is playing against a five times larger talent pool. Ruth didn't get to pad his stats against the 30th-best team's fifth starter. There's also the fact that in Ruth's day it was baseball or nothing if you were a talented young athlete that wanted to make a decent living at pro sports. Today a talented young athlete is just as likely to play basketball, football, etc.
Doesn't matter. Ball players didn't make jack shit back then, so plenty of people that could have been awesome players chose to get real jobs instead. Now salaries are so astronomical that pretty much everyone that can play pro ball does. That alone means players now are much better. Money brings talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I don't think that many prospects opted for other more lucrative careers. Even though ballplayers made shit compared to what they make today, they still made a lot more than the average American, and there weren't other high-paying sports to draw natural athletes away. Maybe a couple guys who would have been ballplayers became bankers instead but what would most of them have been? Probably laborers who would have made less money anyway.
You don't reach the major leagues if you don't have a love of playing the game in the first place; most players started playing when they were 5 years old. It's not like people sit down and say "Well, I'm a world class athlete. Should I go to business school or be a major league baseball player?" Just about everyone in the major leagues has busted their ass to be a pro ballplayer since long before they knew it paid well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint of Killers
I actually think that's really the only point that needs to be made here and I completely agree. However, my problem is with some people who seem to think if Cy Young was to be cloned and thrown into modern baseball that nobody would be able to touch him which simply is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I don't think a player will ever be much better then Ruth because he revolutionized hitting and pushed the limits of what I think is physically possible for a hitter, no matter how large or strong he is. I do think that a non-cheating player could one day hit 100 HR's or more but it would take a lot of good luck and seeing consistently bad pitching. This simply takes into account overall chance. If all life on this planet could evolve by chance, a hitter could certainly hit a shitload of HR's one day, or maybe not, but it's still a possibiltiy, no matter how remote.
In another 50 years I'm sure the crop of players will be smarter then this generation of players but I think that baseball is nearing it's peak in terms of how good players can ultimately be without outside assistance (such as steroids, performance enhancers, etc.). One advantage I think players will have in the future will be the ability to avoid injuries. One thing I've learned from working and practicing all Winter is that pain is a huge part in being good at this sport. I've been hurt and not at the top of my game on and off for over 6 months just from working beyond my physical ability.
True. Pavano wasn't born yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy