Achievement Points

I have been thinking a lot about the effects of the achievement points system lately. Here are some quotes from the EDF3 thread that illustrate some sides.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

You people that judge a game based on achievements are disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's part of the design now. Making stupid achievement decisions is no different than making a stupid decision on gameplay or graphics.

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I have nothing against the existence of achievements points, and I can totally understand the appeal, but I don't really care about them. I'm not someone who tries to find every little thing in a game or force myself to play to the end of a game I don't like it.

It bugs me that people consider design decisions on achievements to be a big flaw since it doesn't affect the quality of the gameplay.

Another problem I see is that people will buy and play crap games just to up their achievement status. Should we as gamers be encouraging this?

I don't get too worked up about this but it's something to think about. Your thoughts?

Achievement points or the achievement structure in no way influence whether or not I purchase a game. In fact, I can't recall a single time I've gone "achievement hunting" just for the sake of more points. It's a neat feature and lets you mark your progress throughout a game, but I don't think of it as a vital game design aspect.

I've been having a similar debate in my own head recently. I have never bought a bad game just for achievements, but I have used services like GameFly and Blockbuster's Game Pass to play some. Depending on how you look at it, it may or may not be costing me any money, but it certainly is a time sink.

Achievements cause me to play games differently. In some cases, it's a positive thing. I probably would not have stuck it out and finished Rainbow Six: Vegas on Realistic if not for the achievement bonus. In other cases, it causes just stupid things. I did not fall for this one, but people were using rubber bands to keep their analog sticks turned so that they could make Superman fly to get the 12 hour and 10,000 mile achievements in Superman Returns, while they slept. That's not adding value for anyone.

Andy had a good point in a recent thread about certain achievements being worth more respect than others, regardless of the GamerScore difference or lack thereof. This is an area where the PS3 has an opportunity to improve Microsoft's system.

As the PS3 was being released, I thought to myself that I definitely would not need one, because I'd always play the multiplatform games on the 360 to get the achievements. Now, I am starting to consider a PS3 just so I don't have the temptation of doing stupid human tricks to inflate the measure of my e-penis.

[/confession of an achievement whore]

Fuck achievements, I spent a lot of time doing all kinds of retarded shit that didn't give me any enjoyment. I hate how I can't turn them off completely either.

Just like everything else, when AP is done appropriately (and not as an afterthought), it could definitely enhance a game (I just succeeded in earning the Pacifist achievement at Geometry Wars over my friend's 360).

So AP is good when done right and shit when it is just a tackon.

I don't mind the, but rarely go out of my way to to chase after achievements just for the sake of having a larger score. Crackdown had several that I went to the trouble of getting, though, and the Pacifist achievement in Geometry Wars:RE took some doing as well. It really depends on the game, and whether or not I enjoy it enough to chase the challenge.

Flying 10,000 miles in Superman is just stupid, though.

James

Achievements, for me, do affect the gameplay. I'm never going to play a game that I don't want to play just to get achievements, but I will play a game I like longer in order to get them. If an otherwise good game has bad achievements, then it gets less playtime from me (unless it's multiplayer). Gotta get a treat if I ring the bell.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Achievements cause me to play games differently. In some cases, it's a positive thing. I probably would not have stuck it out and finished Rainbow Six: Vegas on Realistic if not for the achievement bonus.

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This is my philosophy as well. When implemented right, achievements can motivate you spend more time with a game than you normally would. With some games, this is meaningless, but with others, like RG Vegas, it's great. Having a blast with a great game and getting that little message is nice. I like getting the most out of my purchases (which are becoming fewer and fewer in regards to new games), and achievements are a great motivator for not beating and tossing away a game that might have some cool aspects I normally might have missed out on.

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Originally Posted by James

I don't mind the, but rarely go out of my way to to chase after achievements just for the sake of having a larger score. Crackdown had several that I went to the trouble of getting, though, and the Pacifist achievement in Geometry Wars:RE took some doing as well. It really depends on the game, and whether or not I enjoy it enough to chase the challenge.

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Exactly. I love getting achievements, but I couldn't care less about my actual gamerscore. It's just a meaningless number. I do like looking over my achievements and thinking "I still have two to go in X game!" It reminds me of the high score chases of old.

Crackdown is a great example of the benefit of achievements. Without them, this would be a rental game that you'd blast through in 10 hours. Who would take the time to look for all those darn orbs? When a diverse and fun selection of achievements is included, it can add life to an otherwise short game.

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Flying 10,000 miles in Superman is just stupid, though.

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Yeah, that's just dumb. Who gives a shit about that kind of achievement? Everyone knows no one actually played that turd long enough to get it legitimately.

I've grown to achievements. I'll play the games I have until I get a good chunk of them but I won't play a bad game just to get them.

They're a nice little push, and I'd be lying if I said that they've never affected how I play a given game. I mean, I could try to make a big jump on a motorcycle in Dead Rising for fun, but the game actually recognizing it and rewarding me for it (even with nothing more than a 64x64 icon) makes a huge difference. Little side missions like that are my favorite kind of achievements, but it's also nice to earn recognition of some kind for playing through Gears on higher difficulties and whatnot.

The points behind them aren't nearly as important. It's nice to see a little counter based on what I've played and everything, but it's never going to motivate me to spend time with a game that I wouldn't play otherwise.