Mea Culpa

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

Ehhhhhhh......I can't accept that line of thinking.

We have no basis for comparison. Our solar system is out in the freakin' boonies and we have yet to make first contact with the other sentient life that obviously exists.

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I don't think he was implying that we're the only life around. Just that, out of every planet in our particular solar system, only one in nine has optimal conditions to sustain a complex and varied life ecosystem, if any life at all. And this is most likely the case in other solar systems that might theoretically have an earth-like planet with life, as well. Plus out of those, there's probably quite a few where the "Earth" planet's orbit is off by a couple hundred miles, or lacking a properly-formed atmosphere, and causes that too (and therefore the entire system) to be bereft of life. So the odds are much more against than for any given body in the universe to support life, all in all.

If there were a god, humans would never get hiccups.

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

I simply find it very difficult to belileve that a shitfuckton of cosmic debris floating around after the big bang just "fell into place" and all the laws of physics that govern the universe, just arbitarily came into being.



Drop in the bucket compared to what we as a species will learn once we get off this rock. That was my point.

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Ah but there may not be life on other planets in a biblical point of view. Jesus died for you, not for aliens, not for negros (according to some) not for jews (same some) or for anyone else than the chosen few (other some). As for arbitarily, well given the stupifyingly large size of the universe... anything can and just may happen. Keep in mind our sample size encompasses all of creation beyond what we know and possible multiple universes from previous time lines which may have failed for properly because of slightly differing physics like a lack of van der whals forces being enough or whatnot. Basicly we're here to observe all this and make outragous conclusions just because, the laws of physics were just right and allowed life to exist on a tiny fraction or less than that of places and those places survived long enough for the beginnings of self sentient creatures that developed an external knowledge storage system (writing) and the scientific method.

I mean we've certainly got a long enough timeline (15 billion years) and enough random matter strewn about in a near infinite amount of combinations, something totally weird and unusual like us was bound to happen in someplace and some form. Maybe not us in particular but well, thats a consequence when you've got truely large numbers over a vast amount of time. Certainly sounds more reasonable than some invisible sky fairy taking the time to craft a world in 7 days, give the inhabitants free will, then kill almost all of them for exerting it, then almost at random kill people for disobeying him, then a paltry 6000 years later, stop doing that.

I mean it almost seems like the Christian god was just fucking with us for shits and giggles.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../maltheist.gif

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Originally Posted by Giga Power

This is another thing. God has always been there, but the universe couldn't possibly have been? When we have hard evidence of such...compared to the old "The Bible is true because it says it is!" :doubt:

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ELVIS DIDN'T DO NO DRUGS!

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

Ehhhhhhh......I can't accept that line of thinking.

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That's because you don't have even a remotely good retort.

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

We have no basis for comparison. Our solar system is out in the freakin' boonies and we have yet to make first contact with the other sentient life that obviously exists.

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LOL! How the fuck do you get that our solar system is in some remote part of the known universe? Did you read it on a map? No, you're just pulling that out of your ass. Also, how do you say sentient life obviously exists? Again, what possible evidence do you have to support this other than your own crackpot beliefs?

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

In a sense, whatever fundamental force that governs physicality could be said to be God. It creates everything, it's all-powerful (nothing can defy its will), it has always existed... I don't see why making God into some big dude that talks to you makes that picture any simpler or more elegant.

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There is no fundamental force (prime mover) in the universe. There is no single force (much less an intelligent one) that unifies every aspect of creation and destruction. We can lump all the different forces acting upon eachother together into some heap and call that 'God' but even then there's no intelligence or design behind it. What happened happened because the forces interplayed the way they did, nothing special or unique about it.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

ELVIS DIDN'T DO NO DRUGS!

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"I ain't never been DOPED UP."

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Originally Posted by g0zen

There is no fundamental force (prime mover) in the universe. There is no single force (much less an intelligent one) that unifies every aspect of creation and destruction. We can lump all the different forces acting upon eachother together into some heap and call that 'God' but even then there's no intelligence or design behind it. What happened happened because the forces interplayed the way they did, nothing special or unique about it.

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That's kind of bullshit, though. It's inescapable that the fundamental forces that govern physicality are such because it is their very nature to be such. Yes it might not be one single force (though I'm not convinced it isn't based solely on the fact that we haven't figured out how the handful that we have defined relate to each other), but it still is simply because it is and drives everything else/

When I speak of intelligence, I speak onlyand if it is systematic, ordered, and results in tremendous complexity it can be said to be intelligent. Not that it is a mind per se (since I don't believe that to be the case). But there is clearly causation and order in the universe. The nature of the laws of that govern it would seem to be creative.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

There is no fundamental force (prime mover) in the universe. There is no single force (much less an intelligent one) that unifies every aspect of creation and destruction. We can lump all the different forces acting upon eachother together into some heap and call that 'God' but even then there's no intelligence or design behind it. What happened happened because the forces interplayed the way they did, nothing special or unique about it.

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"It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together"

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

I simply find it very difficult to belileve that a shitfuckton of cosmic debris floating around after the big bang just "fell into place" and all the laws of physics that govern the universe, just arbitarily came into being.

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This assumes that the laws of the universe are perfect and complete.

Your statement also ignores the concept and purpose of evolution and change as methods of adjusting to the imperfections of the universe. I assume your ignorance on that is intentional.

There is too much of a leap of faith in believing that a being so immeasurably intelligent and omniscient spends the majority of his time spying on us and judging us for fucking out of wedlock or thinking too much of other men. For someone who is said to have created us perfectly in his own image, he sure gets pissy when gays enjoy looking at pleasant recreations of himself.

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Originally Posted by MarsKitten

I mean we've certainly got a long enough timeline (15 billion years) and enough random matter strewn about in a near infinite amount of combinations, something totally weird and unusual like us was bound to happen in someplace and some form. Maybe not us in particular but well, thats a consequence when you've got truely large numbers over a vast amount of time.

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This makes sense.