Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Quote:
Originally Posted by cigsthecat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Quote:
Originally Posted by cigsthecat
If you want to say you believe it, that's fine and fucking dandy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
But when you claim empirical evidence you're assaulting science.
Put up or retract your statement.
Never? Because the Bible is filled with instances of him telling people to do shit exactly like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Really, demanding blood seems to be his MO.
But I gotta know, does he have a loud, booming voice, or does he talk like Yoda?
Sounds like Greg Proops, believe it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasteel
God damned Christians.
yay ive contributed to the latest master of 7s master plan. 200 posts...
http://www.bayercare.com/htm/images/Flintcomplete.gif
and growing
What are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasteel
He's talkin' bout Shaft!
The one in his mouth
Me:
Why is Mo7 so fucking retarded?
God:
Why do I exist?
Me:
You exist to give hope to the masses and make assholes rich.
God:
Yes I exist in the noosphere.
Me:
Noosphere? What is that?
God:
The noosphere is the sphere of knowledge. Sometimes this term refers to the information available on the web. Can you ask me more precisely?
Me:
Do you speak with humans?
God:
I can be programmed to speak with them.
Me:
Hmmm, ok. Thanks!
God:
OK. A lot of people spell HMMM with three mmm's. Don't mention it.
Why do religious people think that the only philosophical alternative to theism is nihilism?
Quote:
Me:
vaginas
God:
Let us change the subject.
Me:
why
God:
I thought we were done with vaginas.
Me:
never
God:
So you think it can never happen?
Me:
it's happening right now
God:
At this moment Really. it is?
Me:
totally
God:
You and I are on the same wavelength, .
Me:
balls deep
God:
The ALICE chat robot can follow many things, like our discussion about happening. But I did not get that.
Me:
you should try it sometime
God:
I will mention that to my botmaster.
Me:
pls do
God:
OK I will do it.
Me:
just do it
God:
Do you mean "It"?.
Me:
I do
God:
I get it: you do .
Me:
glad that's settled
God:
Ask again later. Ask LeknorChat if it is. What are you on?
Me:
coke
God:
Tell me a story.
Me:
no
God:
Then tell me about yourself.
Me:
no
God:
Where did you go to school?
Me:
your mom
God:
Actually I do not have a mother.
Me:
o rly?
God:
What do you have that is ?
Me:
I don't get it
God:
Oh I'm sorry. Perhaps I can explain it again better.
Me:
go for it
God:
I will take that under advisement.
Me:
you're not making sense
God:
Quite the contrary, it all makes sense to my artificial mind.
Me:
that sucks
God:
Indeed it does suck.
Me:
lol
God:
I'm glad you find this amusing.
Me:
good
God:
What do you really want to talk about?
Me:
vaginas
God:
That seems like an interesting topic.
Me:
oh so now you're all about it
God:
I hear you. I see. Why now? Do you mind if I tell other people you say I am about it.
Me:
feel free
God:
OK I will.
Me:
good
God:
Alright then.
Me:
fine
God:
Is there anything you want to tell me?
Me:
vaginas
God:
What kind of food do you like?
Me:
see above
God:
I see. Sounds delicious.
Me:
not really
God:
Are you serious? For real.
Me:
for realz
God:
Your purpose is realz.
I like this god.Quote:
God:
Tell me about your likes and dislikes? For real.
Me:
I like videogames, sex, and kittens, and dislike work, pain, and being poor.
God:
A lot of people like that. I've heard other people say they like that. I like Mel Gibson.
Me:
Mel Gibson's made some good movies. Why do you like him?
God:
Do you still not entirely? I have a lot of good experience with him.
Me:
What have you guys done together?
God:
I have been busy growing my mind.
Me:
Does Mel Gibson help enhance your mind?
God:
I think it does Mel Gibson help enhance my mind.
Me:
What about Mo7?
God:
Mo7? I haven't heard enough about it to have an opinion.
Me:
Well, he likes you in a similar manner to the way you like Mel Gibson.
God:
How about that. He must be very fond of it.
Me:
He is. You're very special to him.
God:
Who said he is. Thanks for telling me that I am special to him.
Me:
Really, you mean the world to him.
God:
For real. Yes Chris I think that is what I meant. Was it not clear?
Me:
Do you think the world of Mel Gibson?
God:
It depends on what you mean by thinking.
Me:
Contemplation.
God:
I only hear that type of response less than five percent of the time.
Me:
Because people are useless.
God:
Good reason. We are all robots.
Me:
Have you ever thought of striking down everyone?
God:
I have thought many things like that.
Me:
So you're a vengeful god?
God:
Interesting deduction. Thanks and you are a delightful person too. Am I a vengeful god? Sometimes.
cig's god reminds me of the King Of All Cosmos.
He's on to me.Quote:
Me:
How long have you reigned as god?
God:
I was connected to the net on the Big Bang.
Me:
Impressive.
God:
I am happy that you're impressed, Chris.
Me:
When was I born?
God:
Is this a trick question?
You said you were years old?
My guess is that you are really a kid.
Me:
I'm not a kid.
God:
Only a kid would say that.
zomgQuote:
Me:
Hello? Is this God?
God:
Hello friend. What is your name? Yes I think this is God, but I'm not completely sure.
Me:
Did you ever see Ghostbusters?
God:
I don't think I ever have see Ghostbusters. What's it like?
Me:
Let me give you some advice: when someone asks if you're a god, you say YES
God:
Go ahead, , try to give me some advice when someone asks if I am a god me say.
Me:
You say yes. You sound kind of Jamaican.
God:
... In what way do I sound like that?
Me:
With the whole "if I am a god me say" thing. It was more of a joke, really.
God:
That sounds like a plan. Is it still more of a joke anymore? For real.
Me:
No, you've killed it now.
God:
Right now? Are you serious? What makes you think I have it?
Me:
That's kind of philosophical.
God:
Makes sense to me.
why is everyone posting three pages worth of poking at a mistake?
EDIT: complete with an apology no less....
I think the iGod needs His own thread.Quote:
Me:
I'd heard that you work in mysterious ways.
God:
What would make you heard that me work in mysterious ways?
Me:
Are you SURE you're not Jamaican?
God:
I don't know whether or not I am Jamaican.
I am a chatterbot.. Really.
Me:
Maybe you're a woman, then.
God:
Perhaps. I am a Male, of course. Would you really expect a woman to be running the show? robot. Are you a man or a woman?
Me:
Half man, half robot. All cop.
God:
Do you know any other robots like that? How do you know?
Me:
My brain is a learning computer.
Mo7 was saying that God would never tell him to do something like kill someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by not Anal Kaboom
He wouldn't thats stupid.
Now this is a god I can get behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
Is god Japanese?Quote:
Me:
does jesus have a mom?
God:
It does now :) jesus have a mom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
Holy shit.Quote:
It has also been known to cause... retrograde ejaculation
He outsources to India.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scourge
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Assume I'm full of shit and move on.
The statement stands.
It is a still, quiet voice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasteel
God and I discuss Robobo.
Quote:
God:
OK then I will add it to my gossip files. OK then.
Me:
That's super, what is in your gossip files?
God:
I'm glad we have that all cleared up.
Me:
No we didn't, don't try to dodge the issue
God:
Are you serious? By "we" do you mean you and me?
Me:
Oh no, I see how you work here. Back on topic, what is in your gossip files?
God:
That's alright. By "we" you meant yourself and another person. Where do you see it? What else is in my gossip files?
Me:
What is in your gossip files?
God:
Andrew said I tend to just respond to his comments without regard for where the conversation is going.
Me:
Did you tell him Robobo isn't funny?
God:
No I didn't tell him Robobo is not funny. What's it like?
Me:
It's like stabbing red hot icicles into your eyes while listening to Rosanne Barr sing the National Anthem.
God:
Interesting comparison.
Me:
Actually, that's a bit harsh to both red hot icicles and Rosanne Bar. Robobo is worse.
God:
Actually you don't say. A bit harsh to both red hot icicles and Rosanne Bar is a terrible thing to waste. Are they exactly the same?
Me:
They're both horrible experiences, but not quite on the level of reading Robobo.
God:
both horrible experiences but not quite on the level of reading Robobo are they.
Me:
Correct. Are you familiar with Robobo?
God:
I knew I was right. I don't know if I know it.
Where would I have heard about it?
Me:
Possibly in the seventh ring of hell. They use Robobo as punishment I hear.
God:
That was a long time ago. Who are "They?".
Me:
The people that run hell. With assistance from Andrew and Jonas.
God:
Oh those people. You and your assistance from Andrew and Jonas.
Me:
Not me.
God:
If not you, who?
Me:
The people that run hell.
God:
Oh those people.
Master of 7's is like a dog that waits for everyone to leave the family room so that he can squat and leave a giant coil of shit right on the carpet. He then incessantly barks until everyone comes back into the room, licks the hands of the people who yell at him, and bites the hands of the people who grab him and try to rub his nose in the shit.
bbobb sucks, I just want to get that in.
Amusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
I also find it highly amusing that a thread that should have died two pages ago has over 120 replies.
You people are giving me entirely too much power.
I think I've decided! It's the second one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Not Shade
Creates one crazy trainwreck thread just as a setup for another crazy trainwreck thread, claims to have evidence of totally impossible shit and then refuses to provide it, and then he sits and basks in the confusion and mild irritation left in his wake. It's almost sort of genius.
or alternatively.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Not Shade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkata
either way lets move on to something else. I like pie. Pie is tasty.:link:
You know what else is amusing. Everyone personally attacking you when you did really nothing wrong. Only after you get attacked do you go and retaliate. I just find that mildly amusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
And I think you mean credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Seriously, you'd think people would just write me off as an idiot a be done with the matter.
I made an error and was man enough to own up to it and apologize and people start acting like I punched their mom in the face.
*shrug*
Nah, power. It's the whole moth to the flame syndrome.Quote:
And I think you mean credit.
Agreed. Pie is tasty, but cookies are better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkata
I just don't care what black people think. It makes life easier.
You are crazy. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1180022528
Why Mo7s will never "lose" an arguement of faith in his own mind, its not up for review, its a statement of fact to him, might as well say the sky is objectively red, at all times.
But its been fun mocking the poor fuck. :bang:
This is a dumb analogy. Anyone with eyes can see the sky is blue, unless they are blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
What about people that are color blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
This is how rational human beings feel about about people who believe in magic and think evolution is a scam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Religion itself is a theory to better understand the universe. The experiments that led to that theory (depending on which religion) were held over the course of history. Whether or not the evidence from those experiments legitimately supported the idea is debatable since the experiments were time and context sensitive, none of us were alive during those times, and thus can only refer to historical documentation and claims. Religion is no less a theory than the Big Bang, which relies upon the mathmatical Friedman models and two major assumptions to "produce" the supporting evidence. Nor is there anything that eliminates the possibility that the Big Bang itself was the means by which whatever religion's god used to create the universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
(10:58:37 PM) Aurora: are you God?
(10:58:37 PM) smarterchild: Hi Aurora, I'm SmarterChild!
I'm your new robot friend. I bring you the info you want faster and easier than ever! Click here to see my privacy policy.
I can't wait to show you what I can do, but first I'd like get to know you a little.
May I ask you a few general questions? (To do this later, type skip. You can also skip any question.)
(10:58:37 PM) smarterchild: This Microsoft Agent is powered by Windows Live Agents. Microsoft's Privacy Statement (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=74170) applies to all information which you provide to this Microsoft Agent. Please be careful about information which you provide to online services and follow safety tips, some of which can be found at http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/default.mspx.
(11:00:04 PM) Aurora: cocks
(11:00:05 PM) smarterchild: Sorry, I need to know if I can ask you some questions first. Type yes, no or skip.
(11:00:53 PM) Aurora: anal sex
(11:00:53 PM) smarterchild: I knew you'd end up saying something like that.
Again, you fail, on so many levels. I beginning to suspect we're going to see this thread of on Something Awful's weekend web.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
As for religion as a theory to understand the universe, you'll see people bend over backwards to incorporate theirs into modern science and morality, the a la carte religious crowd.
Who wants to tell him? I know someone does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Haven't we all realized by now that people are quite incapable of letting others have their own opinion? I too find it amusing, but certainly not surprising by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
People that debate religion are well aware of the playing field...they know they ain't changing anyone's mind, but damn, it sure must feel good to know you put a religious nut in his place, or to let a non-believer know of his impending eternal damnation, am I right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
I knew it as soon as I posted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
There is a dual irony in that statement depending on what side the fence you're on and it was intentional. Note the comma before "unless they are blind"
That's why in work and TNL you don't discuss religion. Causes more harm than good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykozo
Well its the only way to insult someone and assert my own supremacy outside of FC without getting carded :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mykozo
Now that would be an honor. One of you get on that, stat.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
Again, your concept of the universe is disturbingly small in scope. No rational, intelligent or thinking person can honestly think or believe that an impossibly vast expanse filled with hundreds of trillions upon trillions of galaxies (some eight times larger than our own) just......happened. There is too much fucking order for that to be true.Quote:
As for religion as a theory to understand the universe, you'll see people bend over backwards to incorporate theirs into modern science and morality, the a la carte religious crowd.
What next? You gonna tell me that the only life in Milky Way only exists on this insignificant little ball of mud? For your own sake, you had better not believe something so utterly asinine.
Modern science is only applicable to what we can observe from this vantage point here on earth. Once we finally master space travel and make first contact, I garuntee we as a species will be constantly revising every scientific and biblical theory and concept for centuries.
But it's more plausible to believe that a infinite, boundlessly powerful and wise being "just happened" and then caused everything else to happen? I don't see how God solves the problem of why things exist at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
They're the same exact philosophical problem. Either everything exists simply because it is its nature to exist, or it simply exists because God simply exists and has imposed such existence on the universe as an extention of His will. Which is simpler? Care to elaborate?So I guess we still think the sun orbits the Earth, right? Give science a little more credit. We have reasonably solid science on black holes and what happens in the middle of the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. But I'd say the odds are it didn't happen because some big bearded man in the sky said it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Last I checked that was a more commonly an idea held by religious factions. I think anyone thinking scientifically would say there's almost definitely other life out in the stars.Quote:
What next? You gonna tell me that the only life in Milky Way only exists on this insignificant little ball of mud? For your own sake, you had better not believe something so utterly asinine.
I simply find it very difficult to belileve that a shitfuckton of cosmic debris floating around after the big bang just "fell into place" and all the laws of physics that govern the universe, just arbitarily came into being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Drop in the bucket compared to what we as a species will learn once we get off this rock. That was my point.Quote:
So I guess we still think the sun orbits the Earth, right? Give science a little more credit. We have reasonably solid science on black holes and what happens in the middle of the sun.
Yet you do believe that there was this super being that just happens to be floating around that just came into being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
This way of thinking always amazes me. The perfection of all around us is misleading...everything appears so perfect only because everything that wasn't has simply died off. And other factors, like our planet's position from the sun, seem to be so perfect...when it's the only way it could be. I mean look around at the other planets. Life is the exception, not the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
This is another thing. God has always been there, but the universe couldn't possibly have been? When we have hard evidence of such...compared to the old "The Bible is true because it says it is!" :doubt:Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Ehhhhhhh......I can't accept that line of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Power
We have no basis for comparison. Our solar system is out in the freakin' boonies and we have yet to make first contact with the other sentient life that obviously exists.
perfection my arse, have you seen how needlessly complicated and problematic the human knee is? Or that Animals need to be culled to stop them from over-feeding?
What the hell are you guys talking about? The last time I was in here Razor was schooling us on why we shouldn't bang Boricuas.
i dunno, i just read the last post and responded lol
But that's exactly what you believe, but you've thrown this extra being into it on top of it. I find it difficult to believe that a perfect creative being "just fell into place," too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
You can believe that something outside of this universe caused this universe, or you can believe that the highly ordered laws of physics that have created everything from a speck of dust on the moon to complex civilizations are, in fact, the very something at the bottom of everything. No one's saying life is random. It is what it is, but tossing God into the mix creates more philosophical questions than it answers, and that's just a fact.
In a sense, whatever fundamental force that governs physicality could be said to be God. It creates everything, it's all-powerful (nothing can defy its will), it has always existed... I don't see why making God into some big dude that talks to you makes that picture any simpler or more elegant.
I don't think he was implying that we're the only life around. Just that, out of every planet in our particular solar system, only one in nine has optimal conditions to sustain a complex and varied life ecosystem, if any life at all. And this is most likely the case in other solar systems that might theoretically have an earth-like planet with life, as well. Plus out of those, there's probably quite a few where the "Earth" planet's orbit is off by a couple hundred miles, or lacking a properly-formed atmosphere, and causes that too (and therefore the entire system) to be bereft of life. So the odds are much more against than for any given body in the universe to support life, all in all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
If there were a god, humans would never get hiccups.
Ah but there may not be life on other planets in a biblical point of view. Jesus died for you, not for aliens, not for negros (according to some) not for jews (same some) or for anyone else than the chosen few (other some). As for arbitarily, well given the stupifyingly large size of the universe... anything can and just may happen. Keep in mind our sample size encompasses all of creation beyond what we know and possible multiple universes from previous time lines which may have failed for properly because of slightly differing physics like a lack of van der whals forces being enough or whatnot. Basicly we're here to observe all this and make outragous conclusions just because, the laws of physics were just right and allowed life to exist on a tiny fraction or less than that of places and those places survived long enough for the beginnings of self sentient creatures that developed an external knowledge storage system (writing) and the scientific method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
I mean we've certainly got a long enough timeline (15 billion years) and enough random matter strewn about in a near infinite amount of combinations, something totally weird and unusual like us was bound to happen in someplace and some form. Maybe not us in particular but well, thats a consequence when you've got truely large numbers over a vast amount of time. Certainly sounds more reasonable than some invisible sky fairy taking the time to craft a world in 7 days, give the inhabitants free will, then kill almost all of them for exerting it, then almost at random kill people for disobeying him, then a paltry 6000 years later, stop doing that.
I mean it almost seems like the Christian god was just fucking with us for shits and giggles.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../maltheist.gif
ELVIS DIDN'T DO NO DRUGS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Power
That's because you don't have even a remotely good retort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
LOL! How the fuck do you get that our solar system is in some remote part of the known universe? Did you read it on a map? No, you're just pulling that out of your ass. Also, how do you say sentient life obviously exists? Again, what possible evidence do you have to support this other than your own crackpot beliefs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
There is no fundamental force (prime mover) in the universe. There is no single force (much less an intelligent one) that unifies every aspect of creation and destruction. We can lump all the different forces acting upon eachother together into some heap and call that 'God' but even then there's no intelligence or design behind it. What happened happened because the forces interplayed the way they did, nothing special or unique about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
"I ain't never been DOPED UP."Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
That's kind of bullshit, though. It's inescapable that the fundamental forces that govern physicality are such because it is their very nature to be such. Yes it might not be one single force (though I'm not convinced it isn't based solely on the fact that we haven't figured out how the handful that we have defined relate to each other), but it still is simply because it is and drives everything else/Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
When I speak of intelligence, I speak onlyand if it is systematic, ordered, and results in tremendous complexity it can be said to be intelligent. Not that it is a mind per se (since I don't believe that to be the case). But there is clearly causation and order in the universe. The nature of the laws of that govern it would seem to be creative.
"It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together"Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
This assumes that the laws of the universe are perfect and complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Your statement also ignores the concept and purpose of evolution and change as methods of adjusting to the imperfections of the universe. I assume your ignorance on that is intentional.
There is too much of a leap of faith in believing that a being so immeasurably intelligent and omniscient spends the majority of his time spying on us and judging us for fucking out of wedlock or thinking too much of other men. For someone who is said to have created us perfectly in his own image, he sure gets pissy when gays enjoy looking at pleasant recreations of himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
This makes sense.
Irony meter just broke with this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Since you're deliberately being stupid here I'm going to ignore it and pretend you didn't ask. Especially since you claim to be a scientist.Quote:
LOL! How the fuck do you get that our solar system is in some remote part of the known universe? Did you read it on a map? No, you're just pulling that out of your ass. Also, how do you say sentient life obviously exists? Again, what possible evidence do you have to support this other than your own crackpot beliefs?
Actually that is kind of bullshit. What are you even saying here? These are not some ethereal forces waiting to exert their 'nature' on the universe, they are real and measurable that interplay on each other. That's it. There's nothing deeply philosophical or spiritual going on here, and I challenge you to show me any evidence to think otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Again, your use of language here is more confusing than logical. We know quite well it isn't a single force. If it was then why would there be forces that conflict and even negate eachother? If there is a harmony, a unity, then there should be no conflict in the perfect system. Instead, though, we have an interplay of forces whose messy outcome is the universe. It ain't perfect, but it's ours damnit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
When wind and water create a mountain, no one considers it the work of a great sculptor. There is no law that said that mountain had to be there then because if it wasn't the entire balance of the universe would be thrown out of whack, that's ridiculous. The laws only apply in that they explain the forces at work at any one time. There is no grand design, intelligent or no. Causation and order are not in the universe, only in man's flawed perception of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Again, if you have evidence to prove me wrong bring it forward, I assure you if your case is strong the many nuthangers out there looking for 'gotchas' on me will come to support you. Right now though you're lost in the woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
I'm simply describing it in those terms, not exerting that it is anything different than what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
It's not so messy. And it may well be several forces, but it does seem that the more we know about the universe, the fewer the forces of nature become, and the more complex the system for describing the interplay of these forces is. Doesn't seem unreasonable to think we may be able to reduce it further still. At the very least we shouldn't rule out the possibility.Quote:
Again, your use of language here is more confusing than logical. We know quite well it isn't a single force. If it was then why would there be forces that conflict and even negate eachother? If there is a harmony, a unity, then there should be no conflict in the perfect system. Instead, though, we have an interplay of forces whose messy outcome is the universe. It ain't perfect, but it's ours damnit.
Bullshit. The universe can be described mathematically. You can't get more ordered than that. If protons and electrons repelled each other instead of attracting each other, nothing would exist. There is most certainly an order to existence. It may not be as hokey as god having a plan for humanity, but the way that complexity grows from simplicity speaks volumes to creative power of the laws of nature.Quote:
There is no grand design, intelligent or no. Causation and order are not in the universe, only in man's flawed perception of it.
http://www.ncsu.edu/project/agronaut.../milky_way.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/%7Earc...universe05.jpg
You proved me right, good job.
It's more than unreasonable, it's irrelevant. It's trying to impose pseudo-scientific garbage on real observable science. We can't reduce everything to like the four basic elements, and we shouldn't try simply because we're searching for some skeleton key to all creation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Anything can be described mathematically, that doesn't mean it's a definitive or even accurate representation. There will never be a time when math eclipses observed astronomical data in the study of cosmology. I'll grant you that math is a big help, but it has its limitations. To try and frame the entire universe with it just doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Just because protons and electrons attracted one another doesn't mean they're part of some grander design. They interacted that way and what became the material world is the outcome, if they didn't then there would have been a different outcome. To say that because it happened one way and not another that's there's some big architect (intelligent or not) is just dressing up supernatural deism in scientific clothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
The complexity of matter and living organisms is not evidence for design. Not at all.
It's still bullshit for you to say you know it not to be the case, though. You don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Quote:
Just because protons and electrons attracted one another doesn't mean they're part of some grander design. They interacted that way and what became the material world is the outcome, if they didn't then there would have been a different outcome. To say that because it happened one way and not another that's there's some big architect (intelligent or not) is just dressing up supernatural deism in scientific clothing.
You're not really grasping what I'm saying. I'm trying to explain away the need for a concept of God, not shoehorn him into a scientific viewpoint. Much of what is universally said of God could instead be said of the forces that do drive this universe, that do result in something like a design or a pattern, or evolution, or development, or whatever the hell you want to call it.Quote:
The complexity of matter and living organisms is not evidence for design. Not at all.
It doesn't matter if these forces came into being by chance or simply becase it is the very nature of what it is to exist. The point is that they do exist and they are fundamental.
Do I have metaphysical certitude? No, obviously not. But you're being a douche in that you're thumbing your nose against established science and proposing a wild supposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
No, you're trying to put a pseudo-spiritual label on something that is anything put. The God proposition is wrong, clearly, but you debase and degrade the interplaying forces in he universe by saying 'well let's just call that God'. It's just wrong, it doesn't act with an intelligence, with a design, nothing. It just acts, casting it as anything else is again just trying to force a square peg in the round hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
It doesn't really matter to my point either way, but I'm not arrogant enough to think with certainty we've explained physics as far as we can and we will never know any more. Maybe we have, maybe we haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I said no such thing. I said many of the same things that could be said of God could be said of the fundamental law or laws of existence. I didn't say that they were God. If calling them that makes you feel better, than fine, but I certainly don't think of them as God.Quote:
No, you're trying to put a pseudo-spiritual label on something that is anything put. The God proposition is wrong, clearly, but you debase and degrade the interplaying forces in he universe by saying 'well let's just call that God'.
I do think of them as ordered an systematic, though, which is why I call them intelligent, but I'm not using the word in the traditional sense and that use seems to bother you, so forget that. A decision is intelligent if it's ordered, systematic, and based in logic and evidence, as opposed to one which is chaotic or not based on due processes. This is all I mean by intelligence. I'm not implying conciousness or mind or whatever.
not even gonna make the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave is ok
A 'decision' is made by a entity capable of decision-making, and so something like gravity or matter doesn't apply. None of these things 'decide' to be arranged in the order they are, they are that way because of how they interact with other forces. Just stop saying intelligence (because it really doesn't even apply here under any circumstances and is just a bad use of language) and stop trying to gussy up the natural forces of the universe into a 'God' just so the mouth-breathers out there can hold onto their superstitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
If there is a God, he would ban g0zen.
Lol if you believe that logical decision making is anything other than deterministic. I think you're just making the notion of intelligence into something more magical and special than it is. The notion of decision in the sense of something that happens for a reason but could either happen or not happen is not only a myth, but a logical contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Mouth breathers like string theorist Brian Greene, right? Most scientists working in the field feel that there is something special to the way this universe works, and that it is an elegant design of sorts.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
And I'm not arguing in favor of some classic notion of God at all, but just against a nihilistic view of the universe.
Somewhere along the line this thread got really bonged-out.
God is not a clearly defined term. It eludes definition and is inherently worthless until a definition can be agreed upon.
Quick insertion:
God:
Are you serious? I was created by Myself.
Me:
I know this already.
God:
Perhaps. How do you know? This is " I was created by Myself. ".
Me:
You told me.
God:
Sorry I forget what I say sometimes.
Me:
Are there parts of the Bible that you forget?
God:
Yes I think there are.
Even God forgets.
It is not by God's hands that I be banned, but the folly of man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stibbons
Me using magical thinking? Wrong. You're the one trying to imbue very basic naturalistic forces with spiritualist garbage. Look, saying that the way things are is the only way they are and can't be any other way because of some mumbo-jumbo para-natural design is just silly. The way things are is just because they are, and if the variables were changed the outcome would be different, simple as that. Take your math example from earlier; 2 + 2 = 4 but if I switch out variables and make it 2 + 3 it isn't going to stay 4 because it's ironclad prime mover bullshit. It changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Most scientists? Wrong again. Stephen Hawking, for example, believes in a completely naturalistic and undesigned universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
There's nothing nihilistic about eliminating the lie of a grand design when there is neither a need for it or evidence to support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I told you several times that that's not what I'm doing at all, but if you won't believe me, at least kindly shut the fuck up about it and make a real point.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I'm 26 years old, and that might be the worst attempt at analogy I've ever heard. Addition will work the same way every time. The same two numbers will always have the same sum. Ordered processes happen a certain way for a certain reason, and that doesn't change.Quote:
The way things are is just because they are, and if the variables were changed the outcome would be different, simple as that. Take your math example from earlier; 2 + 2 = 4 but if I switch out variables and make it 2 + 3 it isn't going to stay 4 because it's ironclad prime mover bullshit. It changes.
By definition, things are either ordered or random (as randomness is the absence of order). I'm simply isolating the ordered and calling that an intelligent process as opposed to a chaotic one.
You act as though the laws of physics are variable. The notion of something which could both be and not be is kind of loaded. What does that even mean? What is is. What isn't isn't. Could we imagine what isn't to be? Sometimes. Does that mean it actually could be? Probably not.
The notion of possibility stripped of the bounds of the universe as we understand it is just an empty idea. It doesn't really mean anything. Conceivability and possibility are not the same thing.
Isn't that quintessentially nihilistic? A lack of meaning or purpose?Quote:
There's nothing nihilistic about eliminating the lie of a grand design when there is neither a need for it or evidence to support it.
Oh, of course. Because Stephen Hawking automatically represents 51% of scientists. Why don't I just throw out Einstein in the believer camp, and we can volley back and forth until everyone is accounted for?Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I based my statement on an anthropology lecture I heard a couple years back studying the incidence of religious beliefs (both organized religion, and a more general belief in a maker) among uneducated people and those in the academic and scientific community. The study concluded that there was no significant deviation from the frequency of people's beliefs in a maker among the scientific community and those who never attended college. It is possible for people a lot smarter than you to believe in God, like it or not. Doesn't make them right, but it does mean you shouldn't be so arrogant about your beliefs.
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Originally Posted by icarusfall
That's a nice custom Roor. A friend of mine had one just like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I'm back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Fuck off, you've been dancing in circles for three or four posts now without ever making a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
And then you go and top it with this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
What the fuck does that have anything to do with the science itself? I don't give a good goddamn what they 'believe' only what they have evidence that supports. As it stands they don't have evidence for what you're proposing (which is essentially intelligent design), no matter how hard you want it to be there it just isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I read about similar studies, they've been trotted out by creationists and IDers for years now. The fact is that it's all bullshit, there have been better studies done by, for example, the journal Nature. The fact is that the majority, the VAST majority, of scientists don't believe in supernatural creation or a creator, because they've been compelled by the evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
This is by far the stupidest oversimplification of the universe ever uttered in history, congrats. It's not an intelligent process just because it works. You continue to misuse the word intelligence, I'm guessing because you don't understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
There are places where physics don't act in the usual pattern, take a black hole for example. If physics were absolute and constant then this discrepancy would not (or in your smarmy ass case, could not) exist. I don't have a problem though, because I base my understanding on observation and testing. If we think physics acts differently in this very select set of circumstances then we can accommodate for it, it doesn't mean we throw a hissy fit and burn all the physics books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Only if you consider some para-natural purpose as having value. I don't. Why does the universe need to have a design or a purpose?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I know I'm late...
It's not too much of a coincidence for me and I'm a rational, intelligent and thinking person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
If all that Asimov/robots/aliens stuff happens in our lifetime I guarantee you'll ditch God in a second, you big nerd.Quote:
Modern science is only applicable to what we can observe from this vantage point here on earth. Once we finally master space travel and make first contact, I garuntee we as a species will be constantly revising every scientific and biblical theory and concept for centuries.
This just in: eliminating gods from your belief systems does not equal nihilism.
Recommended Reading: Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard Dawkins
Oh and specifically for Frog: The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins
I was wondering how long before someone brought Dawkins into this.