have you played MODEL 2 arcade Daytona emulated yet?

Nebula's SEGA Model 2 Emulator v0.5a runs Daytona USA at 60fps with decent enough visuals. still needs alot of work, but its playable even with a keyboard.

here's some YouTube vids.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pGLb0asavuk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z7FMLaRd_WE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9dZcNbw4ffM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VVYkJxACX34
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCdcNwfIf...elated&search=

rant regarding the completely fucked Dreamcast Daytona...


Even playing arcade Daytona through an incomplete emulator on a keyboard, I can see & feel how superior the 1993/1994 original arcade game is superior to the "upgraded" Dreamcast rendition, Daytona USA 2001.

Although the DC ver was enhanced/upgraded in many ways, it was also downgraded. WTF right? right. the physics are very different. so the control/handling feels very different (its fucking borked!). EVEN after adjusting the analog control sensitivity in the U.S. version, it doesn't change the fucked physics / the way the cars handle. Also the rival drone car A.I. is fucking weak. The original drone cars are aggressive.

As for graphics even though DC ver was beefed up in many ways; large polygon count on the cars, much better lighting, higher resolution, popup/draw-in eliminated, re-textured everything, the original MODEL 2 game still looks better to me, and even via the incomplete emulation.

Amusement Vision & Genki made the DC version look too cartoony with the color palette. the trees in the beginner course 777 speedway are sprites. they're polys on MODEL 2. the Sonic relief sculpture in the mountain is a fucking texture (facing the wrong way) instead of being geometry/polygonal that gives it depth on MODEL 2.

MODEL 2 ARCADE
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...daytonaARC.jpg

DREAMCAST
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...daytonaDC1.jpg


The spectators taking photos on the bridge near the start of Dino Canyon is completely missing on DC. the Jeffry statue in the expert track Seaside Street Galaxy is missing his name. there were a bunch of small TV screens in the MODEL 2 game, replaced with a few large ones on Dreamcast (who cares but still a change).

The control issues are far worse than the graphical ones. so I am playing the fuck out of the MODEL 2 game via emulation.

I could have told you that without playing the emu. Nebula is great, but it has some issue with analog controller support in Daytona.

I can't wait to hear how a game that has no less than four home ports needs "preservation" through emulation. This shit has no business on TNL. Compare the Model 2 game to the home ports and STFU about emulation already.

Yeah... I got nothing, Yoshi's right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I can't wait to hear how a game that has no less than four home ports needs "preservation" through emulation. This shit has no business on TNL. Compare the Model 2 game to the home ports and STFU about emulation already.

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I'm glad emulators like Nebula Model 2 and VivaNonno System 22 exist and that anti-emulation people like you don't get their way.

btw, the Saturn versions were not ports since they didnt use any of the assests of the arcade game. the Saturn Daytona were translations or conversions, not ports. the Dreamcast version is only a port as far as the geometry data of the tracks/backgrounds, other than that, it's a totally rewritten game. nothing the arcade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I could have told you that without playing the emu. Nebula is great, but it has some issue with analog controller support in Daytona.

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indeed it does, but i'm sure that'll be much easier to fix than emulating or reverse-engineering that tricky Fujitsu TGP.

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

I'm glad emulators like Nebula Model 2 and VivaNonno System 22 exist and that anti-emulation people like you don't get their way.

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Yeah, people that obey the law piss me off too. I wish I could get shot and run over by a drunk driver at the same time.

These threads are stinking up the best forum on the internet, and the mods should be more proactive in closing them.

Why would you play that ever?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Yeah, people that obey the law piss me off too. I wish I could get shot and run over by a drunk driver at the same time.

These threads are stinking up the best forum on the internet, and the mods should be more proactive in closing them.

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that's bullshit, straight out of your hole. stop acting like a godamn nazi.

It's not like i'm providing links to the ROMS or even hinting were they are. I'm discussing emulation. so fuck off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Why would you play that ever?

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(Shit, you replied as I was reposting.)

I was playing Majora's Mask on my PC this morning. 2048x1536. <3 emulation

I won't close it, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

that's bullshit, straight out of your hole. stop acting like a godamn nazi.

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Actually, Nazis didn't believe in private intellectual property, so you're more a kin to them in this case than I am.

Quote:

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It's not like i'm providing links to the ROMS or even hinting were they are. I'm discussing emulation. so fuck off.

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This imaginary gray area has been taboo here for a long time. Everyone else who has posted here for five years can refrain from posting threads on this bullshit, so your zero value-add ass can too.

TNL mods have always been fine with talking about emulation but not linking to roms. If emulation was completely taboo at TNL, I would be number one on the ban list for posting emulated screenshots of games in quizzes and other threads all the time. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chux

I won't close it, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

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I'll be good and try to keep it clean from here on out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I can't wait to hear how a game that has no less than four home ports needs "preservation" through emulation. This shit has no business on TNL. Compare the Model 2 game to the home ports and STFU about emulation already.

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None of the Daytona ports are good. And that's the only reason why we're talking about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

TNL mods have always been fine with talking about emulation but not linking to roms. If emulation was completely taboo at TNL, I would be number one on the ban list for posting emulated screenshots of games in quizzes and other threads all the time. ;)

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You mean you don't own real copies of every game ever made? Disappointality!

Yoshi, eat a gag order for a little bit cause you're starting to get out of hand.

As for the rest of the board, while there's nothing illegal in the talks of emulation, I'm pretty certain Nick or someone else is gonna get tired of comparing this place to a hack site and likely shut these discussions for good (pending casualties of course). If you really want to talk about this, please direct us someplace outside TNL's boundaries to where these topics can be continued without the threat of authority hanging over our heads.

A certain area on the bottom of the main forum page says wsup.

oh funny haha.

I'm kinda wondering, was Daytona 2 the only sequel made to this? I've never seen anything on a home port and I swear sega made a few spiritual successors on a couple occasions.

Blah blah blah. I <3 emulation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

oh funny haha.

I'm kinda wondering, was Daytona 2 the only sequel made to this? I've never seen anything on a home port and I swear sega made a few spiritual successors on a couple occasions.

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Super GT is basically Daytona with different cars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

oh funny haha.

I'm kinda wondering, was Daytona 2 the only sequel made to this? I've never seen anything on a home port and I swear sega made a few spiritual successors on a couple occasions.

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Super GT/Scud Race was the follow up to Dayton, and I consider it the third part of the Virtua Racing/Daytona/Super GT trilogy. I also think it's better than Daytona 2. But as far as official sequels go, that's all she wrote.

I should see if they have it on xbox.

I don't even know what you're talking about, but none of the games we're talking about are on Xbox, officially or otherwise.

Luckily Model 2 has a standalone emu and it's not MAME, but even steel you need something decent. At least an Athlon64, and dual core helps if you're looking to get 60fps. Xbox is garbage for emulation.

the only way to play Daytona is 8 sit-down cabs linked. With alcohol :)

Honestly, thats the only way friends get me to go to Dave and Busters once a year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

oh funny haha.

I'm kinda wondering, was Daytona 2 the only sequel made to this? I've never seen anything on a home port and I swear sega made a few spiritual successors on a couple occasions.

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basicly yes.


well, before Daytona 2, Super GT / Scud Race was at first thought to be Daytona 2. it was made by the same people, who had split off from AM2 to form AM4 (sometimes called AM11) which was renamed Amusement Vision.

around 2000 or 2001, Daytona 3 was listed as a Dreamcast game, but was never shown, even *IF* work had been done on it.

Then around 2002 there were reports (via the arcade newsletter Stinger Report) that Daytona 3 was being made for the NAOMI 2 board by AM2. Then Daytona 3 was said to be in development for the Chihiro board (Xbox1 based) by Amusement Vision, under the name Daytona LIVE or Daytona USA 2003, and would be brought home to the Xbox console. This also never happened, obviously.

recently, Sega Racing Studio (aka Sega Driving Studio) has kinda hinted that a new Daytona game is under concideration, they'd like to do it, but nothing close to anything has been confirmed.

thus, so far, no sequels or spiritual successors have been made since Daytona 2 and the botched remake of the original Daytona on Dreamcast with additional tracks.

the Daytona 2 (and Scud Race) tracks showed up on the Xbox version of Outrun2, in downgraded form; missing objects, missing animation, no anti-aliasing, framerate stutters, textures of lower quality, less textures, etc.

If Daytona comes back, I would want Sega to do it on completely new, next-gen hardware, like the 3rd-generation Xbox that's in development now, as a launch game. The original Daytona arcade was the first game released for the then brand new, state-of-the-art arcade hardware.

Xbox 360 and PS3 are already a few years old in terms of technology. I would be all for a new Daytona on either console, but to make the biggest impact, it would need to be on completely new visual technology. probably will never happen because Sega sucks this century.

I would actually be satisified with just 100&#37; exact carbon-copies of MODEL 2 arcade Daytona amd MODEL 3 Daytona 2 Battle On The Edge & Power Edition on current consoles with system link play. (fuck online, too much lag). no godamn split screen.

again though, probably too much to ask for, because, Sega is a mess.

so improvements to the Nebula Model 2 emu are all we can really look forward to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Changeling

the only way to play Daytona is 8 sit-down cabs linked. With alcohol :)

Honestly, thats the only way friends get me to go to Dave and Busters once a year.

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There is actually a version on the PC called Daytona USA deluxe which will allow you to play with someone on another computer. I've also read reviews of this being better then what the saturn got.

Thanks for the info voltz. I'll check into it !

This is true, but I wouldn't trade it for the arcade experience.

Sega was always good at making a fucking awesome arcade experience.

they just sucked at bringing the arcade experience home, for many reasons.

There are like literally dozens of top-tier Sega games that never got a proper home port. :/

Virtua Fighter 2, or Rad Mobile ring a bell?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

There are like literally dozens of top-tier Sega games that never got a proper home port. :/

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dozens of dozens, more like it :)

wouldn't that be grosses?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

Virtua Fighter 2, or Rad Mobile ring a bell?

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Rad Mobile got a solid port on Saturn. I think VF2 got a proper emulated port on PS2 for the Sega Ages thing, too. I was thinking more like Thunderblade, AB Cop, Enduro Racer, Super GT, etc.

Was Rad Mobile a Japan only release?

I know it didn't come to North American Saturns and it was pretty rare in the arcades as well.

It's called Gale Racer in japan.

I remember playing this years back when my skating ring was stocking up on new games and had a sit down cab on display. I think the best parts involve a pissed fat-ass behind the badge hammering your hood a new one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Rad Mobile got a solid port on Saturn.

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this is the first time I've heard it being called "solid".
I've never tried it myself because the general consensus was that it stank.

OH NOES! Who do I believe???

Yeah, Gale Racer, I think

EDIT: Too slow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Cena

this is the first time I've heard it being called "solid".
I've never tried it myself because the general consensus was that it stank.

OH NOES! Who do I believe???

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It was a fuckload better than what a lot of other sega superscaler games got. But yeah, it had framerate issues like Power Drift and Galaxy Force.

I loved Rad Mobile arcade. A bit easy to win, even with taking no shortcuts, but a lot of fun anyway.

James

Rad Mobile with the hydraulic tilt is joy. Shit, pretty much any classic arcade racer by Sega is great.

Galaxy Force was supposed to have some crazy tilt mechanics, but I've never seen it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

TNL mods have always been fine with talking about emulation but not linking to roms. If emulation was completely taboo at TNL, I would be number one on the ban list for posting emulated screenshots of games in quizzes and other threads all the time. ;)

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Yoshi's talking about breaking the law. You're above the law, or at least above the rules.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

Galaxy Force was supposed to have some crazy tilt mechanics, but I've never seen it.

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Galaxy Force II (same game as GF) sit-down spun around 360 degrees, but didn't tilt. The original GF didn't move in any version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I think VF2 got a proper emulated port on PS2 for the Sega Ages thing, too.

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Supposedly the gameplay is perfect, but it's an absolute visual mess. The textures are laughable. Check out some screens. A far cry from what we should have had.

But yeah, Sega's still making awesome arcade experiences that won't make it home unscathed, if at all. Afterburner Climax is a ton of fun with the tilting cab.

Rad Mobile the first true 32-bit arcade game released. don't know why the Saturn version (Gale Racer) wasn't as good since Saturn was more powerful than the System 32 board Rad Mobile used. probably because Saturn was a bitch to code for, even AM2 struggled.

Also System 32's video hardware was built around mass sprite scaling in a way Saturn wasn't.

When someone decides to remake Daytona, they need to keep it intact in game play. The Sonic thing in the mountains and other graphical changes I could condone given this being a remake. However the lame handling, asleep-at-the-wheel opponent AI, and lack of the arcade's multi-car crashes mar it irreparably. Junk, Sega. JUNK. :mad: Genki and AV really raped it.

Saturn Daytona USA is unforgivable thanks to its frame rate Sega blew the living daylights out of it a few months later with Sega Rally, which IMO is on par with PS1 Ridge Racer. Sega should have delayed Saturn Daytona- if the frame rate were smoothed out to even 30, it'd be playable. Sega's original arcade wheel for the Saturn lacks tension, but thankfully 3rd parties came up with their own.

Sega needs to release a Daytona collection on 360 or PS3 with all the arcade titles, Super GT as an extra game, maybe even a straight to console Daytona 3, and no borked handling. What Namco did with 500 GP/Moto GP for PS2 would be enough- 100&#37; ports with cleaner textures and improved geometry.

The DX version of Power Drift is surely among Sega's best. A golf & games place near me had this in the early 90s, and I loved that even more than Rad Mobile. The one perfect port is the Dreamcast one, found in Yu Suzuki Game Works for Japanese DC. Now Sega needs to get a PS2 version done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Also System 32's video hardware was built around mass sprite scaling in a way Saturn wasn't.

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but I thought Saturn was built mainly for massive amounts of scaling sprites. I know System 32 and Saturn are different architectures one would think Saturn could do much more in that area.

system16.com specs on System 32

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Main CPU : NEC V60 @ 16.107950 MHz (32 bits RISC CPU)
Sound CPU : Z80 @ 8.053975 MHz
Sound chip : 2 x YM3438 @ 8.053975 MHz + Ricoh RF5c68 @ 12.5 MHz (8 Channel PCM chip remarked as Sega custom 315-*)
Max Colour's : 16384 (8bpp - 16 colour's per sprite)
Goes through a 16->512 indirection table, then selects which 512 color bank to take from 4096. This is used to do colour rotations (the red-yellow rotation of the lava sprites from Galaxy force for instance) without changing the color palette, also allows it to have sprites that rotate colors and sprites that don't on the same screen, and to get different levels of luminosity as well
Sprite Structure : Sprites follow each other in memory except when you stumble on a "go to "
Video resolution : 320 x 224
Board composition : Main board + Rom board
Board Features : 4 BG planes and technically infinite sprites of arbitrary size, BG planes can all be scaled and linescrolled, alpha blending, global RGB brightness control

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hmmmm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

When someone decides to remake Daytona, they need to keep it intact in game play. The Sonic thing in the mountains and other graphical changes I could condone given this being a remake. However the lame handling, asleep-at-the-wheel opponent AI, and lack of the arcade's multi-car crashes mar it irreparably. Junk, Sega. JUNK. :mad: Genki and AV really raped it.

Saturn Daytona USA is unforgivable thanks to its frame rate Sega blew the living daylights out of it a few months later with Sega Rally, which IMO is on par with PS1 Ridge Racer. Sega should have delayed Saturn Daytona- if the frame rate were smoothed out to even 30, it'd be playable. Sega's original arcade wheel for the Saturn lacks tension, but thankfully 3rd parties came up with their own.

Sega needs to release a Daytona collection on 360 or PS3 with all the arcade titles, Super GT as an extra game, maybe even a straight to console Daytona 3, and no borked handling. What Namco did with 500 GP/Moto GP for PS2 would be enough- 100&#37; ports with cleaner textures and improved geometry.

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well said gameoverDude, I agree pretty much 100%

system-link or LAN play is an absolute must.

split-screen is not an option IMO.

online/internet/LIVE/PSN gameplay is fine, as long as rock solid lag-free system-link/LAN play is included.

that goes for original Daytona, both versions of Daytona 2, SuperGT/Scud Race, and any potential new Daytona.

Saturn's biggest problem... dual processors. I understand programming was a bitch, but it also made the chance of a clean port impossible without a total re-write.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

These threads are stinking up the best forum on the internet,

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:lol:

wait......

:lol:

TNL is better than blah-age :P

it was until you typed that statement.

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Originally Posted by John Cena

it was until you typed that statement.

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</thread>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Cena

it was until you typed that statement.

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okay that was uncalled for, sorry. lol

I seriously love Daytona arcade (and Daytona 2). this is far, far, far bigger for me than CPSIII emulation, something I haven't even bothered to try, dispite my thread on the subject being rather large. SFIII and the other CPSIII games means next to nothing to me compared to Daytona, not to mention the other MODEL 2 games currently working. Sega Rally and Indy 500 run well, especially Sega Rally. been playing a lil MODEL 2 Dead or Alive and Last Bronx. sadly, Virtua Cop runs too slow to be worth playing, at least on my machine. It's also interesting to try out Desert Tank, one of two games made by Martin Marietta, who made the graphics chips for MODEL 2. the other game they made, Behind Enemy Lines, also runs, but isnt fun. Daytona by itself though, is an absolute joy to play, even on just a keyboard. To me, this is the greatest achievement in emulation since the release of the Namco System 22 emu VivaNonno in 2002 that runs Ridge Racer 2 and Rave Racer.

Well Model 2 has been emulated for many years, so that's why you don't see as much of a buzz about the new additions.

Virtua Racing was added as working in MAME the same week Nebula M2 came out with Daytona support, by the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

sadly, Virtua Cop runs too slow to be worth playing, at least on my machine.

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I got full speed on pretty much everything I tried on a 2.16GHz Core Duo. Beyond the graphical glitching, this is very impressive. Had trouble configuring the controls on Daytona, though. Hope they do this for Model 3 someday. Super GT deserved to come home.

Despite the music not working, I was thrilled to see that Top Skater's in this. I want to build a Top Skater controller so I can finally bring the experience home. I wish I was joking.

Model 3 is emulated. Unfortunately, that emulator hasn't been made public. There are pics of it running SuperGT though. I think isamu was harassing the guy and sending the guy dead animals through the mail or something.

No matter how much this shit is emulated at home, It still won't compare to sitting down in a cab in the arcade and playing it that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

No matter how much this shit is emulated at home, It still won't compare to sitting down in a cab in the arcade and playing it that way.

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Nope, definitely not. But stuff like this triggers some fun memories. I'm lucky enough to currently have easy access to games I had a ton of fun playing in one of my favorite old arcades at home (the aformentioned Top Skater, Virtual On and Super GT, just to name a few) and can sink change into them and go back whenever I want, but a lot of people can't do this.

However, just because these games are now emulated doesn't mean I've given up on trying to get a 2P VO machine or a Top Skater cab in my house someday. Nothing is going to stop me. :p

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Model 3 is emulated. Unfortunately, that emulator hasn't been made public. There are pics of it running SuperGT though.

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Whoa, really? Do you still have access to the screens? I looked really quickly, but I couldn't find anything and I'm curious to see what kind of progress they've made on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

No matter how much this shit is emulated at home, It still won't compare to sitting down in a cab in the arcade and playing it that way.

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QFT. Nothing ever will, even if you have a $150+ wheel with force feedback.

I think Saturn's dual processors begat laziness in some developers. They could have rewritten the games for the Saturn, but they didn't fucking bother. This could be why Power Drift and GFII just aren't all that they could've been. After Burner is near perfect, but I don't think the Saturn broke a sweat with that one.

House of the Dead is a poor job of a Model 2 port to Saturn, even worse than Daytona. For what it is, Virtua Cop 2 humiliates it. Sega should not have farmed out the Saturn HotD. Lowered framerate may severely mar a racing game, but it shoves a gun game into the ground when your enemies seem to be almost teleporting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grave

Whoa, really? Do you still have access to the screens? I looked really quickly, but I couldn't find anything and I'm curious to see what kind of progress they've made on this.

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These screens are about 4 years old:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

House of the Dead is a poor job of a Model 2 port to Saturn, even worse than Daytona. For what it is, Virtua Cop 2 humiliates it. Sega should not have farmed out the Saturn HotD. Lowered framerate may severely mar a racing game, but it shoves a gun game into the ground when your enemies seem to be almost teleporting.

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I haven't played it in years, but I recall playing it and liking it anyway simply because it was HotD at home, but yeah, not a very impressive port. I still wanted a pair of the blue European Stunners for the HotD experience. :(

None of the later HotD games included the original, did they? I still want to be able to play a decent version of it at home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

These screens are about 4 years old:

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Fuck, seriously? And we still haven't seen a release of this? Grr. Thanks for posting them, though. Looked good even then.

I thought HotD 3 included HotD. Makes sense given the PC port and all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tain

I thought HotD 3 included HotD. Makes sense given the PC port and all.

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As far as I know it only had HotD2 as an extra.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grave

Fuck, seriously? And we still haven't seen a release of this? Grr. Thanks for posting them, though. Looked good even then.

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We will probably never see a release of it. The author switched over to developing a MAME driver instead. From what I understand it's nothing you would want to play with anyway. No GUI, no features.

I think once Model 3 is solid in MAME someone might do a stand-alone, but until then there's kind of a dearth of information on how the hardware works and not enough interest.

Also, HotD is playable in Nebula Model 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Also, HotD is playable in Nebula Model 2.

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Yeah. There was also a decent Windows port years ago. Neither is all that satisfying with a mouse. Is there some kind of PC light gun that'd make this playable...?

yes. I forget what it's called, but I tried it out at a show and it's pretty nifty. I'll look into it and see what I can find.

Grave: This is what you want:
http://www.act-labs.com/scripts/proddetails.asp?Pid=92

It's very good. You need a CRT monitor, though.

Ahh... maybe not.

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NOTE: ACT LABS Light Guns do not work with LCD/TFT displays.

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I figured there'd be a solution for this by now. Thanks for the link, though.

For a really odd PC port, check out Typing of the Dead. It's not a bad version of a Dreamcast game, I suppose, but they couldn't even be bothered to put in a way out of the game. There's no Exit Game option in the menu.

James

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

No matter how much this shit is emulated at home, It still won't compare to sitting down in a cab in the arcade and playing it that way.

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I dissagree. I'd rather play a Daytona game on my home set up in wide screen HD and surround sound. I just can't stomach being in an arcade anymore.

So........ someone get on that pronto.

But Daytona isn't a widescreen game. You'd rather just stretch the shit out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

But Daytona isn't a widescreen game. You'd rather just stretch the shit out?

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I'm saying I'd rather have a perfect port made for wide screen in 1080 HD than go to an arcade and play Daytona.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

House of the Dead is a poor job of a Model 2 port to Saturn, even worse than Daytona. For what it is, Virtua Cop 2 humiliates it. Sega should not have farmed out the Saturn HotD. Lowered framerate may severely mar a racing game, but it shoves a gun game into the ground when your enemies seem to be almost teleporting.

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I didn't mind the frame rate, but the grainy texture mapping was a big disappointment.

if Daytona comes home again, I want a carbon-copy of the arcade in its native resolution; 496x384.

an HD remix edition in 720p, 1080i and 1080p would be fine as long as I can play the MODEL 2 Daytona untampered with.

Considering EA now has assimilated the NASCAR license into its unholy mass, I think the chances of a new Daytona or a port are all but dead. Fuckers.

Play Forza 2 online with 7 of your buddies, it is better than Daytona.

Bullshit.

Give us a call next time you decide to unearth your 360.

My brother's in town, and he has been playing it a bit this week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

if Daytona comes home again, I want a carbon-copy of the arcade in its native resolution; 496x384.

an HD remix edition in 720p, 1080i and 1080p would be fine as long as I can play the MODEL 2 Daytona untampered with.

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That native res would look poor on a HD set. Didn't the model 2/3 games use a medium res monitor?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

My brother's in town, and he has been playing it a bit this week.

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He steal it from your bride?

I think he threw in the wife as a bonus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

He steal it from your bride?

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No, I think he's afraid of her. He plays it where she has it.

I just want Scud Racer, that's all.

Please?

[QUOTE=gameoverDude;1063890412]QFT. Nothing ever will, even if you have a $150+ wheel with force feedback.[/qupte]

absolutely true.

Quote:

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I think Saturn's dual processors begat laziness in some developers. They could have rewritten the games for the Saturn, but they didn't fucking bother. This could be why Power Drift and GFII just aren't all that they could've been. After Burner is near perfect, but I don't think the Saturn broke a sweat with that one.

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Yeah, AfterBurner II's original hardware, "X Board' seems to be much more simple & straightforward then Galaxy Force II's 'Y-Board'.

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House of the Dead is a poor job of a Model 2 port to Saturn, even worse than Daytona. For what it is, Virtua Cop 2 humiliates it. Sega should not have farmed out the Saturn HotD. Lowered framerate may severely mar a racing game, but it shoves a gun game into the ground when your enemies seem to be almost teleporting.

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well, one has to understand that no MODEL 2 game was ever ported to Saturn. translation is a better word since port means using the original arcade assets/coding with minimal changes. certainly not the case with any MODEL 2 -to Saturn game. I agree though, HOTD could've been translated to the Saturn more decently.

the real shame is, Sega did not turn to Martin-Marietta for the graphics processors in Saturn, or later, Lockheed-Martin for an upgrade for Saturn. there really was a 3D upgrade cartridge for Saturn. what 3D chip/chipset was in that cart, remains a mystery. first guess is some LM Real3D chip. others said a first-generation PowerVR chip (PCX1 or PCX2), or a first-gen 3Dfx chip. (not to be confused with 2nd gen PowerVR and 2nd-gen 3Dfx being the basis of two competing consoles, Katana and Black Belt for the following generation).

If MM had done the graphics part of the Saturn's chipset, it probably could've had better texture-mapping than PS1 or N64, and maybe better polygon performance, as well as Z-buffer like N64 and unlike PS1.

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

Yeah, AfterBurner II's original hardware, "X Board' seems to be much more simple & straightforward then Galaxy Force II's 'Y-Board'.

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Y-board used triple CPUs. I'm sure it was rough.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Y-board used triple CPUs. I'm sure it was rough.

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yeah, and not just triple 68000 CPUs, but some different way of dealing with sprites & colors, I don't really understand it. Still, the Saturn is more powerful as far as pushing sprites, scaling & rotation, colors, etc.

Chase HQ (Taito's dual 68000 Z-system board, like X board) was one game that got butchered on Saturn. Some voice samples were missing, and the wrong way feature didn't work right. If you go the wrong way and get Raymond pissed at you, the distance meter will still keep decreasing and you'll not lose ground on the criminals. You don't get the 5,000,000 all-clear bonus, though it does say "All clear bonus 5,000,000" when you finish. SCI has some serious typos like "Lock out! Hill apper three times!" (I know this means "Look out! Will appear three times!" - I guess someone's terrible handwriting could be to blame there).

The Y board games had someone else porting them. Where were the Rutubo Games team when they were needed? Once a friend was watching me play PD on Saturn and when I had fallen off the track, he said that some ground objects seemed to be missing. A 4M cart should probably have been used for this one.

I wonder how well Strike Fighter/After Burner III would've turned out. This game doesn't seem as taxing as PD or GFII graphically. It got a bum rap because of the lameass, sluggish Sega CD translation, but the real deal itself is a great game.

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Originally Posted by supergrafxengine

basicly yes.


well, before Daytona 2, Super GT / Scud Race was at first thought to be Daytona 2. it was made by the same people, who had split off from AM2 to form AM4 (sometimes called AM11) which was renamed Amusement Vision.

around 2000 or 2001, Daytona 3 was listed as a Dreamcast game, but was never shown, even *IF* work had been done on it.

Then around 2002 there were reports (via the arcade newsletter Stinger Report) that Daytona 3 was being made for the NAOMI 2 board by AM2. Then Daytona 3 was said to be in development for the Chihiro board (Xbox1 based) by Amusement Vision, under the name Daytona LIVE or Daytona USA 2003, and would be brought home to the Xbox console. This also never happened, obviously.

recently, Sega Racing Studio (aka Sega Driving Studio) has kinda hinted that a new Daytona game is under concideration, they'd like to do it, but nothing close to anything has been confirmed.

thus, so far, no sequels or spiritual successors have been made since Daytona 2 and the botched remake of the original Daytona on Dreamcast with additional tracks.

the Daytona 2 (and Scud Race) tracks showed up on the Xbox version of Outrun2, in downgraded form; missing objects, missing animation, no anti-aliasing, framerate stutters, textures of lower quality, less textures, etc.

If Daytona comes back, I would want Sega to do it on completely new, next-gen hardware, like the 3rd-generation Xbox that's in development now, as a launch game. The original Daytona arcade was the first game released for the then brand new, state-of-the-art arcade hardware.

Xbox 360 and PS3 are already a few years old in terms of technology. I would be all for a new Daytona on either console, but to make the biggest impact, it would need to be on completely new visual technology. probably will never happen because Sega sucks this century.

I would actually be satisified with just 100% exact carbon-copies of MODEL 2 arcade Daytona amd MODEL 3 Daytona 2 Battle On The Edge & Power Edition on current consoles with system link play. (fuck online, too much lag). no godamn split screen.

again though, probably too much to ask for, because, Sega is a mess.

so improvements to the Nebula Model 2 emu are all we can really look forward to.

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Excellent post and beautifully said. This emulator marks a milestone to people who've wanted to play the games in their original form at home. I, however, have bittersweet feelings towards this emu. On one hand, I love the fact that the game can now be played in the comfort of my own home, but on the other hand, I really really REALLY want Daytona USA 1 or 2, announced for Xbox Live arcade. This is the kind of franchise that shines best with multiplayer and a force feedback steering wheel.

Daytona USA 1, Daytona USA 2, and SuperGT/Scud Race announced for XBLA. That would make my life complete and I would most likely be banned from here for posting erotic nude images of myself humping my xbox 360 in every single thread on this forum, in celebration of this news.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Model 3 is emulated. Unfortunately, that emulator hasn't been made public. There are pics of it running SuperGT though. I think isamu was harassing the guy and sending the guy dead animals through the mail or something.

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I dont know what's going with ville. It'll just be out when it's out. There's nothing I can do to persuay the guy to move any faster. It may never come out at all as far as we know. :(

Supermodel was really only meant as a test anyway, and Ville is now a MAME guy, but it's kind of frustrating because Model 3 emulation in MAME doesn't seem as far along as Supermodel.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Rad Mobile got a solid port on Saturn. I think VF2 got a proper emulated port on PS2 for the Sega Ages thing, too. I was thinking more like Thunderblade, AB Cop, Enduro Racer, Super GT, etc.

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What was wrong with VF2TB on dreamcast? I never really played it much in the arcades, so I'm a bit curious as to what was changed.

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Originally Posted by napalm

What was wrong with VF2TB on dreamcast? I never really played it much in the arcades, so I'm a bit curious as to what was changed.

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Aside from the fact that it was Virtua Fighter 3 and not Virtua Fighter 2, and the graphics sucked compared to the arcade, not much.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Aside from the fact that it was Virtua Fighter 3 and not Virtua Fighter 2, and the graphics sucked compared to the arcade, not much.

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It's disappointing that the VF3 DC graphics sucked. I was sure DC/NAOMI hardware could match Model 3 and even exceed it. What's the deal with the missing polygons on the character models?

http://www.hardcoregaming.com/hgreviews/vf3rdr.htm
Here's a review of VF3 DC which has some good detail about the graphics- mentioning some differences like lack of texture on the carpet covering the stairs in Lion's stage, dull texturing in Pai's rooftop boards, etc.

VF3 did turn out better than Sega Rally 2. Sega Rally 2 had a little bit of polygon reduction on the cars, I heard. WinCE didn't help, but I think SR2 reeked of a rush job. Sega shouldn't have let it out the door with that frame rate. If it held a constant 60, it would've been acceptable even with some graphics sacrifices.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Well Model 2 has been emulated for many years, so that's why you don't see as much of a buzz about the new additions.

Virtua Racing was added as working in MAME the same week Nebula M2 came out with Daytona support, by the way.

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I don't know if it's just my inept ability, but I have never got Model 2 to work for me :cry: I really don't emulate for enjoyment though, I am collecting some games and like to give them I spin before I buy them.

It's not terribly compicated. You probably either have bad roms or your not putting them in the right folder (ROMS subfolder of the emu's directory).