Unbelievable Wreckless Ps2 Images

Johnpv: The early build of the Xbox version showed at E3 2001 looked phenominal... just with some mnajor cliping problems (some of which they didn't fix for the final).

Honestly, that's some PATHETIC screens, but Neoalphazero raises a good point.

The size of the levels in Wreckless were large... but not so large that the PS2 couldn't handle it. The pixel shaders used in the Xbox version (all OVER the place, as if the game was a tech demo) might be too much for PS2 (perhaps not for GC though) as PS2 hasn't really ever showcased anything in the way of good vertex shadeing or anything. Then there's the amount of vehicles, characters and light sources (that interact with characters, vehicles and envrons) - this alone I think would push the PS2 to the breaking point, 50% of the filters would probably be impossible right off the bat and then the level size... that's too much for PS2 no matter the developer.

Add all of that to the fact that it's a port, and maybe not even a artfully done one, and you get screens like above.

The diffrence in the screens is astounding... like the PS2 and the Xbox are a generation apart... and it was just a launch game (in Japan). It's compounded by the fact that the ceiling for the PS2's display is much, much lower than the Xbox and the difference is just embarraseing.

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im not syaing th egame wont look like ass but just syaing it sprobably a beta they could still pull off something closer


i think the GC could pull off Wreckless if you had a developer who didnt have their head up their ass doing it

dont forget it may not be just the PS2 not being as powerful but it could also be the developer not being able to use the full potential of it

i dont think that measureing tool is out yet for the PS2 (that thing sony makes that tells developers how much of the system theyre really using)



I think easily 75% of ports and such arent about what one hardware can do over another but is what developer is doing it

look at spyhunter that game should have rocked on GC and Xbox instead the PS2 was the best version

same with some other game that got ported but i cant think right now its 3 am

Of course I've touched on a lot of that too... the competencey of the port is naturally suspect, but there are several reasons as to why it looks the way it does besides that. It (the PS2 vesion) doesn'look quite as good a GTA3 (again the PS2 version) but then the final may well and I think that would be within reason. I couldn't pretend that PS2 could come close, no matter the developer or if it was the sole target platform.

The GC could very well do it well, if not as well as Xbox, but that's not really in question. GC and Xbox are great machines (though I honestly don't hold them equal in strenth they are damn close). Once again, that's another topic (which gets too heated, as we know). The PS2 really hasn't shown me anything that says it can make a game as nice looking and as large as Wreckless (and yes I think it looks fantasic both technically and asthetically) - developers and console venders say things like "only useing 75% of the consoles power" because it can explain things in theory... Yu Susuki (if you trust his ideas on game developement and real-time graphics) has said that no game uses just X% of Y console. They all use it to it's fullest advantage, the codeing is what makes the diffrence between a great looking and performing game and one that is not on the same platform. Nightcaster uses just as much resources as Rallisport Challange. The percent business is only a metaphor for what the system can do in theory. There are limitations to what code can do with hardware - but I agree we still haven't seen what PS2 can do yet... but you'd be on crack if you though Xbox is anywhere near its Zenith yet.

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no the PS2 is close to reaching its zenith while the GC and Xbox are quite far from it

I think the biggest thing that hurts the PS2 is its texturing capabilities

i mean IMHO as a 3d artist id take more higher res textures over a few thousand more polys any day

and yo ur right to say it only uses 75% is technically wrong i guess you coudl say the code was only 75% optimized or something

i think in 2 - 3 years were going to reach a point when 1,000 more polys wont make osmething look better itll all boil down to whats going on with texturing and the vertex shaders and all

Right - we're seeing eye to eye. I think polys matter quite a bit, the lighting done in Doom III for instance would have less a dramatic effect without high poly characters.. textureing is very very important as well. The PS2 really excells in none of these things, rendering & tesselation, Transform & Lighting, pixel shaders, textureing, general memory bandwidth and a fast access medium like the Xbox HDD (which, were it faster, 7200 as opposed to 5200 or somesuch, and with a 8MB or so cache it would absolutely muder the Xboxes' current performance. Imagine SCSI in the 'Box... tasty).

Personally, if the system DIDN'T have Rez and Klonoa 2 as well as Shinobi, Sky Gunner and Gun Grave coming out I would gove 2 damns about it and honestly I consider it a waste to put games on it still. No I don't care about market dynamics.

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Bad to Worse to F'ing Horrible.

Bad - Those screens. Good Christ thats fugly.

Worse - PS2 hardware can't handle ANYTHING made to utilize all the XBox has to offer (this from the mouths of developers). Also, PS2 is a bitch to program for, especially when porting an Xbox game.

F'ing Horrible - PS2 will hold back innovation. Because they don't want a shoddy looking port coming to PS2 months later after the great Xbox game comes out (nobody wants an incomparable version going to the juggernaut), many companies will no longer take advantage of the XBox hardware from the start. We will see more PS2 to Xbox ports than Xbox to PS2 ports in the future because of this. Get ready for lackluster Xbox games that don't take full advantage of what Xbox has to offer. Its sad, but to avoid "wreckless" size messups in the future, there will be less and less games that truly push the envelope.

PS: This doesn't apply to Xbox first, or XBox exclusive software.

PPS: This is speculation, I have no source. Its not "insider knowledge"...

I agree entirely. Like I said, I don't care about market dynamics, I care about games. No matter what they look like, if they play well then not all is wrong with the world... but I DO like things to look pretty. Pretty, if a funny adjective, as it is a reletive term. After Xbox and a good number of GC games, PS2 games as a whole look 2nd rate. Shinobi will be cool, but it would be even more cool on Xbox or Gamecube.

What Master says is perfectly logical, though we can't say it's true or prophetic. PS2 games may continue to be the standard because this is business as much as I don't like it. The average game will look like a good looking PS2 game. Nearly everything exclusive to Gamecube and Xbox will likely blow that average look right out of the water - but those will probably be FAR fewer than your average game. At this rate, the original Xbox may have no problem competeing graphically with the next wave of gaming machines (by 'wave' this will likely only qualify PS3). Nintendo may be smart in just sticking to thier Gamecube/GBA guns from here on out, game grpahics probably aren't getting much better as a whole for a good while :(

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Quote:

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Originally posted by TracerBullet
game grpahics probably aren't getting much better as a whole for a good while :(

ºTracer

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You'll remember that you said this a couple years from now. They said it when PacMan was around, they said it about the NES, they said it about the 16 bit, 32/64bit generations, and you are saying it now. Its like saying "I can't see computers getting much faster for a long time". One of those things you should never say, because its always wrong, whenever you say it.

Sure, we may not take leaps and bounds like we have in the past, but when HDTV is the standard (AKA soon), we have a whole new medium to explore. Trust me, we have a long ways to go.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Master

F'ing Horrible - PS2 will hold back innovation. Because they don't want a shoddy looking port coming to PS2 months later after the great Xbox game comes out (nobody wants an incomparable version going to the juggernaut), many companies will no longer take advantage of the XBox hardware from the start. We will see more PS2 to Xbox ports than Xbox to PS2 ports in the future because of this. Get ready for lackluster Xbox games that don't take full advantage of what Xbox has to offer. Its sad, but to avoid "wreckless" size messups in the future, there will be less and less games that truly push the envelope.

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This is already true. It's been true pretty much since Xbox's launch. If you compare the Xbox exclusives to the multi platform titles, there's this huge abyss of quality, not just in graphics, but also in gameplay. It's a simple equation, the more power you have, the more stuff you can do. I think that's why devs who dig deep into the code and aren't restrained by asine publishers love the Xbox.

Example, on one of the OXM discs there's an interview with the guys making the superman game. One thing they mentioned is the only way they were able to create the massive city of Metropolis was by streaming content from the hard drive and that has a _huge_ effect on gameplay, because if they couldn't make the whole city the way they did, it would have ended up a lackluster 'chopped into bits' game that Spider-man turned out to be.

And compare Panzer Dragon Orta to any upcoming PS2 game... You can't, really. It's like comparing a Ferrari to a Pinto. :p

Well, I think it's unfair to compare Xbox/PS2, because they're a year apart, and after PS2 was released, it was easier for MS to build a better machine. All they had to do was beat the PS2's specs all around. I heard somewhere that GT3 was using about 25% of the power of the PS2. Besides, I don't think ANYONE in their right mind would release a game that sub-par, especially with it looking amazing on Xbox. This is Sony we're talking about here; they have a reputation to keep afloat, and putting out games looking like this will begin to tarnish it. Give it some more time; it'll look better......hopefully.