Microsoft Extends 360 Warranty to 3 Years (Retroactive, omg)

Yeah, I'm a few hours late, but I know there's a few people around here disgusted with MS quality control that don't check the 360 official thread.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/801/801684p1.html

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Microsoft Expands Xbox 360 Warranty Coverage

Microsoft Corp. today announced that it will expand its global Xbox 360 warranty coverage. Any Xbox 360 customer who experiences a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights will now be covered by a three year warranty from date of purchase. All other existing Xbox 360 warranty policies remain in place.

As a result of what Microsoft views as an unacceptable number of repairs to Xbox 360 consoles, the company conducted extensive investigations into potential sources of general hardware failures. Having identified a number of factors which can cause general hardware failures indicated by three red flashing lights on the console, Microsoft has made improvements to the console and is enhancing its Xbox 360 warranty policy for existing and new customers.

Microsoft stands behind its products and is taking responsibility to repair or replace any Xbox 360 console that experiences the "three flashing red lights" error message within three years from time of purchase free of charge, including shipping costs. Microsoft will take a $1.05 billion to $1.15 billion pre-tax charge to earnings for the quarter ended June 30, 2007 for anticipated costs under its current and enhanced Xbox 360 policies.

"The majority of Xbox 360 owners are having a great experience with their console and have from day one. But, this problem has caused frustration for some of our customers and for that, we sincerely apologize," said Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's Entertainment & Devices Division. "We value our community tremendously and look at this as an investment in our customer base. We look forward to great things to come."

For any customer who has previously paid for repair expenses related to the three flashing lights error message on the Xbox 360 console, Microsoft will retroactively reimburse them.

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cool so mine has till 2010 to crap out on me.

Great thing to happen for us, now i can worry less.

At least Microsoft has FINALLY admitted that they had problems with the 360. Sony never said shit about the crappy PS2.

A 30% failure rate will do that. ;)

Phew, I was starting to worry. Now I'm good. SamuariMoogle: the later ps2 revisions weren't that bad.

awesome news.

Just as I was about to write them off. It still sucks that their system is so shoddy, but they really are going beyond what most companies would do with this 3 year warranty.

JM

This is a smart move on microsofts part even if they still won't fess up to the actual statistics.

Hey, cool. This makes me feel much better about finally throwing down the cash for one. Of course, not as good as I'd feel if the consoles didn't break to begin with, but...

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Originally Posted by SamuraiMoogle

At least Microsoft has FINALLY admitted that they had problems with the 360. Sony never said shit about the crappy PS2.

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I don't think PS2 failure was ever the kind of epidemic this was. I've seen PS2s in bad shape, but most of them were not exactly handled the best way. The sheer number of 360s breaking down while the owner took excellent care of the system is alarming.

My launch PS2 still works and it's been through been beat up, packed into boxes and moved around more times than I can count now. Never had a disc read error. Go figure.

People are now buying broken 360s on ebay like mad.

So I just got back my 360 and paid a reduced fee to repair it due to the red rings of death and now it looks like I'm getting my moolah back and extended warranty. I'm a happy man and now I can breath easier. Kinda said to say that but this console as much as I enjoy it has issues.


I noticed the console I got back is almost totally silent compared to my previous 360's (I'm now on my third). It makes no noise upon bootup like my previous console and the dvd drive is pretty silent as well. I guess I got one of those improved consoles..maybe with the new heatsinks/cooling solution?

I was waiting for the long overdue hardware revision, but this may be enough for me to buy a 360 as I've planned for so long.

Glad I didn't pay for the extended 2 year warranty on my Elite, nice move MS.

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Originally Posted by Geo

I was waiting for the long overdue hardware revision, but this may be enough for me to buy a 360 as I've planned for so long.

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You might as well wait a little longer, since Microsoft is going to announce a price drop to retaliate for Sony's supposed PS3 price drop announcement at E3.

I didn't say I was going to buy it today! :lol:

Good point though, Cow.

3 years is still crap for a machine with a 30% failure rate.


MS knows some people won't send the machine back, others will buy a new one. Plus there is no proof that the new heat sink fixes anything. They are all defective, just waiting to die. Anything short of a recall that fixes them all preemptively is MS refusing to admit to the full scope of the problem.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

Anything short of a recall that fixes them all is MS refusing to accept the problem.

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:lol:

That is all.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

Plus there is no proof that the new heat sink fixes anything. They are all defective, just waiting to die. Anything short of a recall that fixes them all preemptively is MS refusing to admit to the full scope of the problem.

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How are they supposed to recall it and preemptively fix it if according to you the new heat sink doesn't fix anything?

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Originally Posted by bbobb

How are they supposed to recall it and preemptively fix it if according to you the new heat sink doesn't fix anything?

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I said there is no proof the heat sink fixes anything. Neither you or I know if it does or doesn't.

But if MS believes it has found a way to fix the problem they should contact owners and give them the opportunity to send their machines in. And they should most certainly pull remaining stock from store shelves and replace them with "fixed" machines. Allowing people to continue to buy defective machines is BS.

Even if it dies, it's still my favorite console. Good for MS for taking responsibility on the nagging flaws, though.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

I said there is no proof the heat sink fixes anything. Neither you or I know if it does or doesn't.

But if MS believes it has found a way to fix the problem they should contact owners and give them the opportunity to send their machines in. And they should most certainly pull stock from store shelves and replace them with "fixed" machines. Allowing people to continue to buy defective crap is nonsense.

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That's right, fuck M$. They should go over to peoples' houses and fix that shit.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

But if MS believes it has found a way to fix the problem they should contact owners and give them the opportunity to send their machines in.

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Because Microsoft has the contact information for every single 360 owner, and has the man power to contact all 5+ million and be like "Hey, you know we have this new heatsink in our systems, and if you want you can send in your system that is working perfectly fine and is covered under warranty for a few more years just in case it breaks, to trade it in for one of these 360s with a new heat sink. Even though your system is working, and is covered under this FREE warranty we are giving you for 3 years after the date you purchased it".

I don't think you realize how idiotic an idea that is from both a business perspective where a company is already going to be losing around a billion dollars due to their poorly manufactured systems, and from a consumers perspective where you have a working system that could break, but is covered under warranty for a few more years.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

I said there is no proof the heat sink fixes anything. Neither you or I know if it does or doesn't.

But if MS believes it has found a way to fix the problem they should contact owners and give them the opportunity to send their machines in. And they should most certainly pull remaining stock from store shelves and replace them with "fixed" machines. Allowing people to continue to buy defective machines is BS.

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Yeah man, it really sucks that MS is only going so far as to extend the warranty another year. Remember when Sony made all those defective pile of shit PS1's that started breaking down/skipping and not playing things correctly within the first year because of the heat warping the lens? It was awesome how Sony went and recalled all of those, pulled them off shelves and fixed every one of them wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by Brand X

Because Microsoft has the contact information for every single 360 owner, and has the man power to contact all 5+ million and be like "Hey, you know we have this new heatsink in our systems, and if you want you can send in your system that is working perfectly fine and is covered under warranty for a few more years just in case it breaks, to trade it in for one of these 360s with a new heat sink. Even though your system is working, and is covered under this FREE warranty we are giving you for 3 years after the date you purchased it".

I don't think you realize how idiotic an idea that is from both a business perspective where a company is already going to be losing around a billion dollars due to their poorly manufactured systems, and from a consumers perspective where you have a working system that could break, but is covered under warranty for a few more years.

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I hear you man, and I admit it is a ridiculous idea.

But the fact is that this is just a PR stunt to get people off their back. I really can't believe how many people are commending them for it. They shipped garbage -- perhaps the least reliable console ever made -- and people are pissing themselves happy because after nearly two years of lying MS decides they'll fix them.

They've still not stated the cause or extent of the problem. They still have not guaranteed that new systems do not have the problem. I know MS said they will reimburse those who paid for repairs, but what about those who were facing a $150+ service charge and instead opted to buy a new machine?

FYI MS certainly has the ability to contact the majority of 360 owners, just as they did when they distributed the power cord to mask the original Xbox's hardware failures.

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Originally Posted by raystorm

I noticed the console I got back is almost totally silent compared to my previous 360's (I'm now on my third). It makes no noise upon bootup like my previous console and the dvd drive is pretty silent as well. I guess I got one of those improved consoles..maybe with the new heatsinks/cooling solution?

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Can you check the birth date? It's on the back near the A/V and power plugs.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

I hear you man, and I admit it is a ridiculous idea.

But the fact is that this is just a PR stunt to get people off their back. I really can't believe how many people are commending them for it. They shipped garbage -- perhaps the faultiest console ever made -- and people are pissing themselves happy because after nearly two years of lying MS decides they'll fix them.

They've still not stated the cause or extent of the problem. They still have not guaranteed that new systems do not have the problem. I know MS said they will reimburse those who paid for repairs, but what about those who were facing a $150 charge and instead opted to buy a new machine?

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Yeah, extending warranties and giving people their money back, it's all just a PR stunt.

Kind of like when had that party with the butchered goat for God of War... yep, same thing.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

But the fact is that this is just a PR stunt to get people off their back.

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Losing close to a billion dollars due to refunded money and free repairs is the furthest thing from a PR stunt. It doesn't matter if they said they have solved the problem, it doesn't matter how long after the release it took them to finally decide to do this, they did it, and the fact of the matter is it's costing them a lot of money, and saving their customers a lot of money. Regardless of how poorly manufactured the console is.

And the people who went out and bought a new system were impatient idiots who would rather $300 for a new system instead of $125 for repairs and wait a week or 2. Or were to cheap to buy a warranty.

Those people deserve to lose the few hundred dollars they spent because they were stupid.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

Yeah, extending warranties and giving people their money back, it's all just a PR stunt.

Kind of like when had that party with the butchered goat for God of War... yep, same thing.

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We'll see if this problem actually goes away with the "new and improved" hardware.

I hope it does because I'd like to buy one. But I'll wait for the proof.

Until they stop sending out crappy refurbs I still don't care. They still haven't fixed the actual problem, they're just making it so you get to spend more years of your life talking to Steve in India and waiting for your system to be couriered back to you.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

We'll see if this problem actually goes away with the "new and improved" hardware.

I hope it does because I'd like to buy one. But I'll wait for the proof.

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Yeah, like you waited for proof that the Wii would never have problems.

Oh wait, yours broke down once already? And that's in 6 months time? Well that's not a good omen is it?

You can be an idiot, or you can take note that if you buy one it's guaranteed for 3 years, and if the problem isn't perfectly fixed and yours does break, by the time it does break it will be fixed and you'll get it replace for free.

Man, those MS assholes, they really should do more shouldn't they?

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

they're just making it so you get to spend more years of your life talking to Steve in India and waiting for your system to be couriered back to you.

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When I got mine sent in, I was on the phone for less then 10 min, and got my box and system returned in just under 2 weeks. I wouldn't call that "years" of my life, let alone say that I was waiting on my doorstep for those 2 weeks twiddling my thumbs doing nothing but waiting for my system.

Anyone that is saying anything negative about what MS is doing to attempt to rectify their shittily manufactured system is retarded. We're lucky they are even doing this, and I'm glad my system is covered for another year and a half for free.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Until they stop sending out crappy refurbs I still don't care. They still haven't fixed the actual problem, they're just making it so you get to spend more years of your life talking to Steve in India and waiting for your system to be couriered back to you.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

Yeah, like you waited for proof that the Wii would never have problems.

Oh wait, yours broke down once already? And that's in 6 months time? Well that's not a good omen is it?

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Yep, the Wii is starting to have widespread problems too. I took the plunge to buy launch hardware and I got burnt -- not a huge surprise. Nintendo was very easy to deal with when getting it fixed, but the mere fact that I had to deal with it made it a pain in the ass.

I sat out the 360 launch, for various reasons. Historically, sitting out the launch window means getting a more reliable system later. But it has been almost two years and thing is still having massive failures -- perhaps the highest console failure rate ever.

Surely you'll admit those are two entirely different scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Brand X

When I got mine sent in, I was on the phone for less then 10 min, and got my box and system returned in just under 2 weeks. I wouldn't call that "years" of my life, let alone say that I was waiting on my doorstep for those 2 weeks twiddling my thumbs doing nothing but waiting for my system.

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I meant years as in the term of the warranty. They haven't fixed the hardware issues, so it's going to keep happening.

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Anyone that is saying anything negative about what MS is doing to attempt to rectify their shittily manufactured system is retarded. We're lucky they are even doing this, and I'm glad my system is covered for another year and a half for free.

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Why is it retarded to criticise a bandaid solution? I gave up on the 360 while I was still under warranty (my box still is); it wasn't whether or not they were going to replace it that I had an issue with, it was having to spend 20-30 minutes on the phone (including wading through the automated phone system, waiting on hold, then going through the actual discussion with the rep), having to organize the shipment (including either dropping off the package or ensuring I'm around when the courier shows up) then waiting half a month to have a game system again, then finding out it's just a refurb that breaks within a week - assuming it works out of the box - and having to repeat the whole process over again. 4 times in the first 8 months of ownership.

The fact that they let me do this for longer is not Microsoft being "great guys." That would entail them making hardware that doesn't have the worst failure rate in the history of gaming.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

Yep, the Wii is starting to have widespread problems too. I took the plunge to buy launch hardware and I got burnt -- not a huge surprise. Nintendo was very easy to deal with when getting it fixed, but the mere fact that I had to deal with it made it a pain in the ass.

I sat out the 360 launch, for various reasons. Historically, sitting out the launch window means getting a more reliable system later. But it has been almost two years and thing is still having massive failures -- perhaps the highest console failure rate ever.

Surely you'll admit those are two entirely different scenarios.

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These continuing massive failure rates, could it be that most of them are older systems? You know the ones that benefit most from getting a 3rd year on their warranty that's about to run out? Just a thought.

Defective systems happen. But I'd say MS is the first to go actively out of their way to keep trying to fix it for people FOR FREE. Sony fucked me up the ass with both the PS1 and PS2, neither of those were launch systems, and yet they did nothing for me. At least MS is going to fix my shit if it breaks.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

That would entail them making hardware that doesn't have the worst failure rate in the history of gaming.

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See, this I don't believe. There is honestly no way in hell that the 360 fails more then the pile of shit that was the original Playstation. Because it's current you may think it's worse, but if you think back that fucker was a disaster.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

I really can't believe how many people are commending them for it. They shipped garbage -- perhaps the least reliable console ever made -- and people are pissing themselves happy because after nearly two years of lying MS decides they'll fix them.

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You've got a point there. We're all so used to getting reamed in the ass by Sony that our perspective is completely skewed as far as what we have a right to reasonably expect. So now we have people with this attitude:

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Originally Posted by Brand X

Anyone that is saying anything negative about what MS is doing to attempt to rectify their shittily manufactured system is retarded. We're lucky they are even doing this, and I'm glad my system is covered for another year and a half for free.

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Which was me too before I caught myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad MS is doing this, and realize they didn't have to, but it's a sad state of affairs that we're all so grateful when a company merely takes responsibility for their own negligence.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Why is it retarded to criticise a bandaid solution?

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Because whether or not it's a band aid solution, and whether or not they actually fix the manufacturing problem, it's a step in the right direction providing at least some sort of relief to the customers still have working systems, and still want to use the 360 in the future.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

it wasn't whether or not they were going to replace it that I had an issue with, it was having to spend 20-30 minutes on the phone (including wading through the automated phone system, waiting on hold, then going through the actual discussion with the rep),.....

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Shipping out your box to Microsoft takes literally zero effort. Quit acting like it's a huge process and takes forever, because it really isn't at all.

Yeah, it sucks that you had 4 bad systems in 8 months. That was just really bad luck. I got a refurb a year ago a year and a half ago and it has worked perfectly ever since. And I could really care less if the system breaks 2 more times, shit, even 4, because it's going to be free to fix if it does.

It sucks, they are made like shit, but if the worst thing that happens to me because of my system failing is that I have to spend 15-20 min on the phone and ship out a box so be it.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

See, this I don't believe. There is honestly no way in hell that the 360 fails more then the pile of shit that was the original Playstation. Because it's current you may think it's worse, but if you think back that fucker was a disaster.

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I guess there aren't any real metrics out there to do a comparison, but I don't remember the PS1 being anything like this. I remember it being poorly venitlated and having to flip it over to play it after a while, but I didn't know a single person whose PS1 actually died. Every single 360 owner I know IRL is on at least their second 360. Nothing has ever been like this AFAIK. The closest was the NES and everyone having to blow on cartridges after a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Compass

Which was me too before I caught myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad MS is doing this, and realize they didn't have to, but it's a sad state of affairs that we're all so grateful

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I actually take back what I said, we're not lucky, and I would have been pissed if they didn't address this problem in some manner. But this solution coupled with the hope of them actually fixing the problem is more then enough to keep me as a customer and satisfied with how they are treating their customers.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I guess there aren't any real metrics out there to do a comparison, but I don't remember the PS1 being anything like this. I remember it being poorly venitlated and having to flip it over to play it after a while, but I didn't know a single person whose PS1 actually died. Every single 360 owner I know IRL is on at least their second 360. Nothing has ever been like this AFAIK. The closest was the NES and everyone having to blow on cartridges after a couple of years.

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I guess you didn't know a lot of people with PS1's from the first year or so. I worked at a game store, we had people with broken systems in left and right all the freaking time, and all we could tell em is LOL you're fucked. Flip it over, that'll work for a while, but eventually it'll just stop reading the discs.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

I worked at a game store, we had people with broken systems in left and right all the freaking time, and all we could tell em is LOL you're fucked. wrap a towel around it, that'll work for a while, but eventually it'll just stop reading the discs.

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Anyway, while i do feel more comfortable running down this system to the ground since its covered till 2010, it still would pain anyone when lets say, Mass Effect comes out and that very day you get RROD. 30 minute phone call and 2+ weeks shipping is enough to piss anyone off.

Im glad theyre doing it, but i do have to agree with the whole bandaid. It would be nice to hear that theyve found and are fixing the mass problem, because its no secret they break down more then 3%.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

See, this I don't believe. There is honestly no way in hell that the 360 fails more then the pile of shit that was the original Playstation. Because it's current you may think it's worse, but if you think back that fucker was a disaster.

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No. See, there were reports of the PS1 breaking down, having problems, but they weren't anything to convince the public that the system was a hardware failure waiting to happen. Sony makes shit products ya, fine, but everytime I saw someone say that I saw a report about another 30 million of them being sold.

The 360 on the other hand has become an albatross around Microsoft's neck. They knew that the reports of the system failures were only going to get worse now that actual numbers were starting to leak (30% or whatever). Think about that for a second. If Sony were that horrible, how come there was never a report of 33 Million of the 100 million PS1s sold having failed in their first year or two of operation?

And by the way, alot of those PS1s that did crap out? They had some assistance. Namely from people attempting to mod their systems.

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Originally Posted by Error

No. See, there were reports of the PS1 breaking down, having problems, but they weren't anything to convince the public that the system was a hardware failure waiting to happen. Sony makes shit products ya, fine, but everytime I saw someone say that I saw a report about another 30 million of them being sold.

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Yeah, because back then, in 1994-96ish, when the major problem systems were around the internet wasn't what it is now.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

Can you check the birth date? It's on the back near the A/V and power plugs.

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Nov 15, 2006. Its certainly a refurbished unit based on that date but I'm happy that its just about silent. Hopefully this one won't crap out but at least I'm covered until 2010.

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Originally Posted by Error

And by the way, alot of those PS1s that did crap out? They had some assistance. Namely from people attempting to mod their systems.

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That doesn't have a damn thing to do with the laser issues. I've seen plenty of pre-5501 PS1s that need to be flipped outside down if you want to have any chance of playing a game without skipping. The drives are absolute shit and even a lot of the blue debug PS1s with these drives have reliability problems.

Don't try to pin that bullshit on the consumers just because the 360 situation appears to be far worse. Sony has had their fair share of hardware problems as well.

And of course every system that ever broke down was personally viewed by your wise and experienced eyes. Don't go biting my head off. The PS1 was a huge system for pirates, and not all of them were done successfully. I never said the PS1 didn't have issues. I was just saying it wasn't as widespread as the problems the 360 is having.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I guess there aren't any real metrics out there to do a comparison, but I don't remember the PS1 being anything like this. I remember it being poorly venitlated and having to flip it over to play it after a while, but I didn't know a single person whose PS1 actually died.

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I remember every single one of my friends having to flip their PS1s to get them to work. Mine was the last to go, and it started skipping after I sold it to by best friend.... to replace his fucked up one.

I think the difference was that there was no widespread daily coverage about it, and since optical media was first becoming the default medium for consoles (fuck the N64), people were content to say "oh, just flip it upside down, and it'll work fine." Today, every time a company farts its on the main page of a thousand web sites and blogs.

I don't think the PS1's problems was anywhere near the level of the 360, but it was pretty darn bad in its ownright.

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The closest was the NES and everyone having to blow on cartridges after a couple of years.

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With all the bells and whistles today's consoles have, I wouldn't be surprised if this shit becomes the norm from this generation forward.

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Originally Posted by Melf

With all the bells and whistles today's consoles have, I wouldn't be surprised if this shit becomes the norm from this generation forward.

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That's a fucking awful thing to have be the norm. PCs have a shitload more in them than a 360 does, so really this problem shouldn't exist. It's just shitty thermal cooling design, and deciding to use cheaper solder that's causing this problem. It has nothing to do with the 360 having so many "bells and whistles".


As I said in the 360 thread it's nice of MS to extend the warranty and do what they're doing but first and foremost they should be working to FIX the problem. They shouldn't be continuing to manufacture 360s the way they are, they should be figuring out a better way to control the heat and find a better solder solution and begin manufacturing units that way. Then the fucking things wouldn't need a 4 year warranty.

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

That's a fucking awful thing to have be the norm. PCs have a shitload more in them than a 360 does, so really this problem shouldn't exist. It's just shitty thermal cooling design, and deciding to use cheaper solder that's causing this problem. It has nothing to do with the 360 having so many "bells and whistles".

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I think it has a lot to do with companies adding so much shit to their consoles that the quality control has suffered. Compare the consoles of the 16-bit generation to the flip-it-over Playstations, then the shitty drives of the Dreamcast and PS2, then the Thompson drives in the Xbox, and now the 360. As more features have been added to more powerful consoles, the overall quality of construction has diminshed. It might just be coincidence, but I doubt it.

I don't think that you can compare PCs to console in terms of quality construction though. I understand that a machine that has to do so much is built much better than these consoles that just basically do one thing, but they've always been made that way, haven't they? PCs have been built from the get-go with the concept of doing all kinds of shit in mind. Consoles are just now really getting close to becoming the "all in one" machines that the industry has talked about for so long, and the mistakes of the last two generations are really becoming more and more evident.

Applause to MS.

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Originally Posted by Error

The PS1 was a huge system for pirates, and not all of them were done successfully. I never said the PS1 didn't have issues. I was just saying it wasn't as widespread as the problems the 360 is having.

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My wise and experienced eyes think you shouldn't make a statement if you're going to get upset when it's questioned.

It's impossible to go back and get the numbers, sure, but the problem was pretty damn widespread. In the living rooms of plenty of people who have never heard of a mod chip, even. I guess it'd be possible to get a better guess at how many units had the shitty CD drives by looking at sales numbers through the times the different model numbers were manufactured. The 5501 series was the first model sold in the US that fixed the issue, and that hit a year after the system launched here. Unreliable 360s have been available from launch til present, but have they moved as many? It's... probably not worth finding out.

I still do think it's a stretch to say that failed mods make a significant number of the people who complained about PS1 failures. Yes, piracy was big during the PS1's time, but certainly not in all markets. In 1995, most people in smalltown bumfuck USA didn't have a channel to buy bootlegged games through, and you certainly weren't downloading isos and burning CDs at home then. I just don't think it was a concern in the failure of the 1001 units. In later ones, sure, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I think it has a lot to do with companies adding so much shit to their consoles that the quality control has suffered. Compare the consoles of the 16-bit generation to the flip-it-over Playstations, then the shitty drives of the Dreamcast and PS2, then the Thompson drives in the Xbox, and now the 360. As more features have been added to more powerful consoles, the overall quality of construction has diminshed. It might just be coincidence, but I doubt it.

I don't think that you can compare PCs to console in terms of quality construction though. I understand that a machine that has to do so much is built much better than these consoles that just basically do one thing, but they've always been made that way, haven't they? PCs have been built from the get-go with the concept of doing all kinds of shit in mind. Consoles are just now really getting close to becoming the "all in one" machines that the industry has talked about for so long, and the mistakes of the last two generations are really becoming more and more evident.

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None of that is a valid excuse for worse quality control. I don't care if something does more, it should still be built to last before it's released. Just because they've added functionality (functionality I might add I don't give 2 shits about in a video game system) doesn't mean the thing should be built like crap and prone to breaking down. The problem comes down to the companies making the hardware and not more shit being put in. We've all seen the reports and break downs of manufacturing costs, and MS spending 6 whole fucking dollars to build the 360 is the problem here. Sony using shitty lasers that were prone to getting miss aligned was the problem with the PS2.

Manufacturers should be building their systems to last regardless of how much the fucking things do. It really is that black and white. They shouldn't be given a break because they're just starting to make consoles that do more than play games now, the same level of quality should be expected of them either way.

That'd be super, but Sony did it and got away with it for 2 fucking generations straight.

At least MS is doing something, which Sony never ever chose to do. No, it's not perfect, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

No one's excusing the poor quality control. ;)

I'm merely pointing out that companies don't care about it like they used to. Old consoles were simple, but they were fucking tanks, and today's, for all their awesome features, fail if you look at them twice. You don't think there might be a relation there?

My gamecube never broke, and that thing went through hell and back. My ps2 died in 3 months.

Sadly most electronics aren't built like they used to be. If something breaks often times it's cheaper to just replace the whole thing.

Quick, someone make a poll of PSones breaking down!

Even though it is annoying having to send your console in(going through it right now), i applaud microsoft for being assertive about this issue unlike its competitors.
Oh, and for the record Wii's are pieces of shit too.

I knew this thread would turn into this. I applaud microsoft as well, since I was about ready to jump ship as well because of their poor product. I'm sure everything will be worked out in the future regarding the system so this is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as other consoles go, I had plenty of problems with the NES. I remember moving the cartige around inside just to get the thing to work. Some people would stick another game on top of the inserted game to get it to work. Getting a Sega Genesis that looked sleek, never messed up and had a killer game collection , was a wonderful relief. Never had a problem with the SNES , either.

The PS 1 was garbage. went through 2 of those. I had one of those spring loaded mods that went through the memory card slot in the second one, but it never had a chance to die. It was in "hand-plant" mode, though. My PSone seems fine though.

The Dreamcast was terrible as well(till I seen the fix online) I had 2 of those and bought a third just in case.

PS2 was kinda iffy. Didn't want to read blue-bottom CD games, but worked well otherwise. Sold it and got another one that has worked great. I'll probably buy a PStwo in the near future as well. Where would a good place be to find a modded one for imports be?


Microsoft is the first company to go above and beyond to fix its problems. Granted with the internet negativity going around, it was only a matter of time before something was done. I know the PS2 had problems too, but the 360 fails so quickly and so dramatically that it wasn't going to left off the hook like the PS2 was.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

As far as other consoles go, I had plenty of problems with the NES. I remember moving the cartige around inside just to get the thing to work. Some people would stick another game on top of the inserted game to get it to work.

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Childhood voodoo rituals to get NES games to work were awesome. And by awesome, I mean vaguely infuriating. Felt damn good to finally replace the 72 pin connector and have games start the first time every time. Cheap, easy, and beats the hell out of those NES on a chip knockoffs.

It's a great move by MS. But whatever happened to using the cooler chips? I thought they announced that more than a year ago?

Other consoles have had issues, but never to this extent. People who are babying their 360s and only playing for 1 hour at a time are having problems.

I'm honestly surprised to see people bitching about this news. Why is everyone so convinced that the updated systems won't make it to retail at some point?

I know very little about law, but I've read that a product recall would leave MS open for a class action lawsuit. This is the next best way to fix the problem.

I typed up a big post but saw most of the points were already touched on. To sum it up: People defending the PS and PS2 are retarded. Just because MS owned up and Sony hid it doesn't mean you need to jump to the latter's defense because their shitty terrible practices didn't bother to help consumers with what was most likely only a slightly less shitty build. Go visit the internet of ten years ago and see if you get the same responses as you would today.

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Originally Posted by nocturne

Even though it is annoying having to send your console in(going through it right now), i applaud microsoft for being assertive about this issue unlike its competitors.

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lol You applaud them for blatantly lying about failures not being a problem and extending warranties so that they can avoid admitting they have no QC and opening themselves up to a class action suit? No wonder the company is still in business.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

MS knows some people won't send the machine back, others will buy a new one. Plus there is no proof that the new heat sink fixes anything. They are all defective, just waiting to die. Anything short of a recall that fixes them all preemptively is MS refusing to admit to the full scope of the problem.

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Yes, but that's the case regardless of whether or not Microsoft launches this policy or not. They had problems with their machines they didn't expect and are making ammends in the biggest way a gaming company ever has. Stop complaining about a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I don't think that you can compare PCs to console in terms of quality construction though. I understand that a machine that has to do so much is built much better than these consoles that just basically do one thing, but they've always been made that way, haven't they? PCs have been built from the get-go with the concept of doing all kinds of shit in mind. Consoles are just now really getting close to becoming the "all in one" machines that the industry has talked about for so long, and the mistakes of the last two generations are really becoming more and more evident.

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If you look back to the early 90's, Hewlett-Packard was part of a class-action lawsuit, because of their shitty PCs. They were caught using refurbished parts in their PCs and paid out the ass because of it.

Of course, they're in trouble again, with a current class-action lawsuit concerning their laptop computers.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...-pavilion.html

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Originally Posted by L&S

A certified class action lawsuit has been filed against the computer company regarding certain Pavilion models of notebook computers. The class action claims the computers contain defective inverters. An inverter is the component that regulates voltage to light the display screen. When an inverter fails, the screen becomes extremely dim or flickers, rendering the computer useless. An inverter costs less than $20, but Hewlett-Packard allegedly quoted consumers $650 to fix the problem. The lawsuit also claims Hewlett-Packard knew about the defect before it sold the computers to the public.


Register your Defective HP Complaint
If you have suffered damages in this defective HP case, you may qualify for damages or remedies that may be awarded in a possible class action or lawsuit. Please click the link below to submit your complaint to a lawyer for a free evaluation.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

lol You applaud them for blatantly lying about failures not being a problem and extending warranties so that they can avoid admitting they have no QC and opening themselves up to a class action suit? No wonder the company is still in business.

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If they did nothing and waited for the class action lawsuit, the lawyers would have made millions and each 360 owner would have gotten a $5 coupon off the purchase of a new 360 game or peripheral. MS would be punished either way, but this way the 360 owners get the benefit instead of the lawyers.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

If they did nothing and waited for the class action lawsuit, the lawyers would have made millions and each 360 owner would have gotten a $5 coupon off the purchase of a new 360 game or peripheral. MS would be punished either way, but this way the 360 owners get the benefit instead of the lawyers.

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This goes beyond where the money is going. MS is saving face, by offering this 3 year extended warranty to its customers. MS is only concerned with the sales of the 360; if word on the street was that the 360 is garbage and everyone had to eat their $400, nobody would buy the thing.

Everyone know the Hyundai was a total peice of shit car, but with the company offering a 100,000 mile warranty, people bought it anyways.

The difference is that if you want to buy the console with the most+best games, you're buying a 360. The Hyundai isn't the best driving car.

My options (for a one console household) are:

a) Buy a Wii and let it collect dust (and not break) because there are no games.
b) Buy a PS3 and play it a bunch but not as much as a 360 because it isn't as good.
c) Buy a 360 and play it to hell and back. If it dies, get it replaced.

I will pick c), especially since my console hasn't broken.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

The difference is that if you want to buy the console with the most+best games, you're buying a 360. The Hyundai isn't the best driving car.

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The point being that the history of the car was so bad, Hyundai had to put the 100,000 mile warranty in place to keep people buying it. It looks like MS is doing the same thing with the 360.

I had a Hyundai once, it was the worst POS ever.

No, I understood you...just saying that even without it, there's one key difference (well, actually more, a car is something much more serious when it breaks)

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

No, I understood you...just saying that even without it, there's one key difference (well, actually more, a car is something much more serious when it breaks)

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I don't know about you, but I'm not buying anything that is known to break, without a solid replacement/repair plan in place. MS pretty much had to do this, to save a little bit of face, in an otherwise horrible situation.

Does Hyundai or MS really care about you? Not likely. But they do care about the guy that's thinking about buying their product and having an extended warranty seems to be the band-aid to make all the bad go away.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

If they did nothing and waited for the class action lawsuit, the lawyers would have made millions and each 360 owner would have gotten a $5 coupon off the purchase of a new 360 game or peripheral. MS would be punished either way, but this way the 360 owners get the benefit instead of the lawyers.

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Well, shit. Give them a medal for sweeping the dirt under the right carpet then.

Agreed. I love Microsoft.

About time those assholes! I've personally gone through 3 and am now on my 4th 360.

I wonder if I'll get a refund for Best Buy's product replacement plan at $50/ 360 product? That's $150 I'd like to get back....

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Originally Posted by Melf

I'm merely pointing out that companies don't care about it like they used to. Old consoles were simple, but they were fucking tanks, and today's, for all their awesome features, fail if you look at them twice. You don't think there might be a relation there?

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It's Microsoft and their products are guaranteed to be prone to getting HIV and AIDS.

See also: The Clap, Crabs, and Herpes.

MS has nothing to do with retailer warranty programs.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

MS has nothing to do with retailer warranty programs.

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Oh well...


Bastards!

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Originally Posted by gamevet

If you look back to the early 90's, Hewlett-Packard was part of a class-action lawsuit, because of their shitty PCs. They were caught using refurbished parts in their PCs and paid out the ass because of it.

Of course, they're in trouble again, with a current class-action lawsuit concerning their laptop computers.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...-pavilion.html

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There is no company I hate more than HP, they make the biggest piece of shit products.

Though Sun Microsystems is a close second (They're as greedy as Microsoft without any actual good aspects)

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Originally Posted by Melf

I'm merely pointing out that companies don't care about it like they used to. Old consoles were simple, but they were fucking tanks, and today's, for all their awesome features, fail if you look at them twice. You don't think there might be a relation there?

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Moving parts.

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Originally Posted by Type Ryan

About time those assholes! I've personally gone through 3 and am now on my 4th 360.

I wonder if I'll get a refund for Best Buy's product replacement plan at $50/ 360 product? That's $150 I'd like to get back....

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You need to go on eBay and buy a four leafed clover and a really big rabbit's foot, because that's just really bad luck.

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Originally Posted by Thief Silver

Though Sun Microsystems is a close second (They're as greedy as Microsoft without any actual good aspects)

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Don't be so quick to knock Solaris. That's some secure shit.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Moving parts.

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Then explain the Gamecube.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Then explain the Gamecube.

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Add the Sega Saturn to that list as well. I have a Saturn from the early May launch, before it was even announced. I've never had any problems with the console.

I'm glad I can have a working 360 for the first time in 2007 now.

I've been 360 less for 7 fucking months now.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Add the Sega Saturn to that list as well. I have a Saturn from the early May launch, before it was even announced. I've never had any problems with the console.

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Word. I bought my model 2 Sega CD in 1996 and it's still going strong too. To be fair, model 1 CDs were pretty unreliable, as were Turbo Duos. My May 1995 Saturn is still great, as is my launch day GC.

Rich had a 360?

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Then explain the Gamecube.

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Okay: It was well built. Now for your turn, explain the NES.

Melf wasn't comparing the Xbox to the PS to the Wii, he was talking about old systems that on a general level did not break down and how consoles since the addition of laser-based drives and all sorts of other things have had a higher failure rate. The primary difference between the two are moving parts, which introduces a much greater chance for many more things to go wrong. If nothing moves nothing can wear down like it can from a belt or a mechanical arm or gears or whatever.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Okay: It was well built. Now for your turn, explain the NES.

Melf wasn't comparing the Xbox to the PS to the Wii, he was talking about old systems that on a general level did not break down and how consoles since the addition of laser-based drives and all sorts of other things have had a higher failure rate. The primary difference between the two are moving parts, which introduces a much greater chance for many more things to go wrong. If nothing moves nothing can wear down like it can from a belt or a mechanical arm or gears or whatever.

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I agree with you about moving parts for the most part, but I find it odd that the Saturn and the Gamecube got it right while so many others got it wrong and far as consoles with moving parts are concerned.

The NES suffered from poor design. I never heard of any other cart-based console having the problems that the NES had.

Could it be that the Saturn's "longevity" and "resilience" were due to lack of use? Just saying. (I think I played mine a total of 100hrs)

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

Could it be that the Saturn's "longevity" and "resilience" were due to lack of use? Just saying. (I think I played mine a total of 100hrs)

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Your problem is due to a lack of taste then. The Saturn is a work horse that should have been played thousands of hours.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

I agree with you about moving parts for the most part, but I find it odd that the Saturn and the Gamecube got it right while so many others got it wrong and far as consoles with moving parts are concerned.

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Nintendo has a history of building long-lasting machines, the only flaws being the original NES model (which was later corrected with a much more well designed version) and the rubbery plastic of the DS Lite. The GC using high quality parts really isn't much of a surprise. If MS had used a better DVD drive in the first place for the Xbox it would've fared a lot better in that regard as well.

As for the Saturn, who knows? Maybe Sega decided to splurge extra on that machine and then decided cost-cutting would work better for the DC.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Your problem is due to a lack of taste then. The Saturn is a work horse that should have been played thousands of hours.

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QFT. My Saturn has never failed me. I probably played it for thousands of hours.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Your problem is due to a lack of taste then. The Saturn is a work horse that should have been played thousands of hours.

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I'd probably put in 100 hours with Shining Force III and Shining:THA. I can't imagine how many hours were logged between Daytona, Sega Rally and the Virtua Fighter games.

Having a Saturn, probably is the reason why my PSX didn't break down. It wasn't getting near half the time that I put into playing games on the Saturn.

lol, wtf. The Saturn was cool and everything, but if you really played more Saturn games than PS1 games, you made some bad choices.

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Originally Posted by Compass

lol, wtf. The Saturn was cool and everything, but if you really played more Saturn games than PS1 games, you made some bad choices.

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I had about 35 games for the PSX, in comparison to 65 for the Saturn.

Most people think of arcade shooters, fighters and racing games, when it comes to the Saturn. But it had games like Last Gladiators(Pinball), Burning Rangers(platform/shooter), Gun Griffon(mech combat), Dragon Force(Strategy RPG), Iron Storm (strategy), World Series Baseball 98(best baseball game at the time), Panzer Dragoon Series and great ports of the Virtua Cop series.

The PSX had a ton of games. But when it came to the number of must play titles, my personal taste found that both systems had around equal amounts. Gamefan magazine, was probably the only publication that took the time to review and preview those excellent titles on the Saturn, while mags like Lamepro and EGM reviewed what the masses wanted.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Nintendo has a history of building long-lasting machines, the only flaws being the original NES model

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and the Famicom Disk System (the belts wear down).

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Originally Posted by Compass

lol, wtf. The Saturn was cool and everything, but if you really played more Saturn games than PS1 games, you made some bad choices.

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Or maybe they imported a lot of great games for the Saturn. I played my PS1 more myself but the SS had a ton of good games.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Or maybe they imported a lot of great games for the Saturn. I played my PS1 more myself but the SS had a ton of good games.

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I'd only imported 3 titles for the Saturn: Wing Arms, Vampire Savior(with 4 meg cart that worked with the N. American Marvel Super Heroes) and Sexy Parodius.

A ton of domestic released titles for the Saturn had slipped under the radar, because of the popularity of the Playstation; Legend of Oasis is one example.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

Rich had a 360?

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I used to be on Live all the time nigga