Are YOU being retarded for fun? Do you honestly fucking thing I believe any of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
I was making a semi-joke about the morons that were in front of the ferry today campaigning about this stupid shit.
Are YOU being retarded for fun? Do you honestly fucking thing I believe any of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
I was making a semi-joke about the morons that were in front of the ferry today campaigning about this stupid shit.
You honestly believe that if we abandoned our military bases in the middle east the terrorists would stop coming after us? Osama also said (constantly) that his goal was a global Islamic state governed by Sharia law. Osama says lots of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
I thought you were trying to say there's 'proof' for every theory, and that I was wrong. See what happens when everyone's on vacation except you at work?
Ok Spo, why did he start attacking us then? What reason is more convenient for you to use in a political debate rather than THE THING HE SAID?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
He didn't give one reason. He said that he was attacking America because:Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
A) We have military bases on Islamic holy land
B) We provide financial support to Israel
C) In the Gulf War our female military officers dressed similar to the male military officers, sending a socially damaging message to Islamic women that they had equal rights.
D) We exploit women sexually and practice generally sinful/gluttonous behavior
E) We go to great lengths to remove God from government and law
He also has maintained all along that his goal is a global Islamic state, not simply getting American military bases out of the middle east. I'm not sure why you choose to focus on only the military bases.
Because if we weren't over there he'd have no real reason to bitch about all those things in the first place. Osama wasn't even a devout Muslim until he needed people to fight for his cause. Why do you think Al-Qaeda hasn't attacked Norway, or Columbia, or Sweden, or for fuck sake the sinners in Holland, or, or....?
He's a sociopathic serial murderer, his "reason to bitch" is just a tool he uses to manipulate others to his cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
Because he doesn't have to; they're not opposing his movement with any force and they unknowingly help him launder money in the case of the Swiss. Once he topples the United States, Britain, and Israel everything else will fall into place according to his stated plan for global Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
He's a lot of things, but a crazy (in the way you're implying) isn't one of them. He's certainly no worse than we are (again, not excusing what he does - I just don't excuse us either).Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
There wasn't any need for a movement before we came charging around in there's all I'm saying. We need to keep our noses out of shit that isn't our business and stop pretending like we have some moral destiny to be the Cop of the World.Quote:
Because he doesn't have to; they're not opposing his movement with any force and they unknowingly help him launder money in the case of the Swiss. Once he topples the United States, Britain, and Israel everything else will fall into place according to his stated plan for global Islam.
On the one hand this thread is annoying because it's so transparently Spo Daddy getting a boner because an actual Muslim is backing up his redneck politics.
On the other hand I agree with alot of what this guy is saying. Religious tolerance is a fundamental belief of western societies. We tend to let things fly under the banner of religion because people get irrational about it.
But at some point you have to come out and say that there are alot of undercurrents in Islam that are medieval, destructive and severely violate human rights. That's it's being done as part of the fabric of a major religion can't be a defence.
The trouble is:
A) Most Muslims are sane people who adhere to the same basic tenets of human decency as the rest of us.
B) There's a hell of a lot of them, and they don't seem to react well to the whole "we're here in the decadent west drowning in porn and we strongly condemn your moral belief structure" thing.
Saying things like "we must get together and protest Islam" is just polarizing and pointless. Only Islam can change itself. Unfortunately, the Muslim world is one that leaves its fate up to Allah; the culture of introspective social protest doesn't really exist in the same way it does here.
The Neocons are a bunch of fucking knuckle-dragging morons, but the one thing they got right was the notion that capitalist modernization would do alot to stem radical Islam. A technocratic middle class is far less likely to gravitate towards that stuff when they've got education and a mortgage to pay.
Unfortunately, some people decided Dubya was qualified to run anything other than a Burger King and he went and fucked up the whole process of rapprochement that had been happening since the death of Khomeni. Good going, doorknobs.
Now there's nothing left but to start it again.
If we and the rest of the world just pulled the fuck out and washed our hands of the Middle East then yeah, they'd leave us alone for quite a while as they all fought and killed each other. The final outcome of it all might end up messy, and oil would be an issue, but it'd be a temporary solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy