Universal Healthcare

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

IIndustry thrives and progresses from the pressures of a free market and competition. The government gets involved and the market is only going to be pushed by the lowest common denominator.

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The problem is that health care in America has too long been spent under a business model, and businesses usually don't give a shit about the quality of life of their customers. In fact, in this business, the more you get sick the better for them. There shouldn't be any talk of "markets" and "competition" when it comes to fundamental health care. When you walk into an emergency room and the first thing you're asked is "what plan do you have?" something's wrong with the system.

I'm not saying that the government should take over completely, but there needs to be MAJOR changes to the current system, because the only ones benefitting from this business model are insurance companies.

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Originally Posted by The Gas

If you had the courage of your convictions, you'd call for the dismantling of all of the above and an end to all taxes, and say fuck anyone without the sense and money to amass an armory, an ATV, and a fireproofed home.

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Even if we assume your parallels are valid, there's one major difference: Only 1% of the country could afford privatization of security, airplanes, etc., while health insruance is pretty attainable by everyone.

My dad and mom were in Vancouver for vacation last spring. While in Vancouver, my dad's appendix ruptured, nothing serious if dealt with quickly. He was in severe pain and didn't really know what was going on. So my mom took him to a Canadian hospital. My father ended up sitting in the hospital waiting room for 16 hours. While waiting for assistance, his appendix ruptured 4 more times (although he obviously didn't know this at the time). My mom could literally see that he was dying, and there was still no sign of him getting help. No one was helping him.

So she got him in the car, and drove down to Port Angeles, WA (the closest U.S. city from Vancouver). The hospital he arrived at immediately took him in, and placed him under surgery. His body was experiencing toxic shock from the ruptures in his appendix, and he almost died.

Socialized health care almost killed my dad. As of right now, I'm not a big fan of adopting it. I like being guaranteed quick service when I go to the hospital, and I feel with socialized health care, hospitals will be extremely overbooked. Furthermore, there is suppose to be a severe shortage of nurses and doctors within the next 15 years. Basically, we're not churning out enough medical students to take care of the whole population. Most nursing programs have a 3 year waiting list.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

while health insruance is pretty attainable by everyone.

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I hope you're just ignorant and not that much of a snob. If you don't work a job with benefits then it is not attainable at all. Could you afford an extra $500 a month? My wife and I's plan was $572 until we simply couldn't afford it anymore.

Supply and demand is not always ideal, if some participants are able to harm the others in a way that is not taken into account, it can be quite far from ideal.

For example, if companies could pollute as much as they wanted, they would, ALOT, and it would hurt all of us, but they would care comparatively little, because they would make alot of profit. So we make laws that say they can't, get a bit less of product X in our daily lives, and get over it.

I think Universal healthcare is great, and we honestly have way way more shit than we need. I have next to nothing, and could probably part with a decent portion of it.

Just no handouts to illegal immigrants.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I hope you're just ignorant and not that much of a snob. If you don't work a job with benefits then it is not attainable at all. Could you afford an extra $500 a month? My wife and I's plan was $572 until we simply couldn't afford it anymore.

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You're right, I'm very much ignorant on the subject as I've never shopped for health insurance. Though I doubt $572 a month was the lowest rate you could find. I got a quick quote from Kaiser for a family with two kids in San Francisco and got this:

Click for full size


If you've got kids and can't afford $300.00 a month with a spouse for health insurance, you've probably made some bad financial decisions in your life (possibly including the decision to have children).

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Originally Posted by Tenchimo Dos

My dad and mom were in Vancouver for vacation last spring. While in Vancouver, my dad's appendix ruptured, nothing serious if dealt with quickly. He was in severe pain and didn't really know what was going on. So my mom took him to a Canadian hospital. My father ended up sitting in the hospital waiting room for 16 hours. While waiting for assistance, his appendix ruptured 4 more times (although he obviously didn't know this at the time). My mom could literally see that he was dying, and there was still no sign of him getting help. No one was helping him.

So she got him in the car, and drove down to Port Angeles, WA (the closest U.S. city from Vancouver). The hospital he arrived at immediately took him in, and placed him under surgery. His body was experiencing toxic shock from the ruptures in his appendix, and he almost died.

Socialized health care almost killed my dad. As of right now, I'm not a big fan of adopting it. I like being guaranteed quick service when I go to the hospital, and I feel with socialized health care, hospitals will be extremely overbooked. Furthermore, there is suppose to be a severe shortage of nurses and doctors within the next 15 years. Basically, we're not churning out enough medical students to take care of the whole population. Most nursing programs have a 3 year waiting list.

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This is why Americans go to Canada when they need cheap drugs and Canadians go to America when they need serious care.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

You're right, I'm very much ignorant on the subject as I've never shopped for health insurance. Though I doubt $572 a month was the lowest rate you could find. I got a quick quote from Kaiser for a family with two kids in San Francisco and got this:
If you've got kids and can't afford $300.00 a month with a spouse for health insurance, you've probably made some bad financial decisions in your life (possibly including the decision to have children).

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Yeah, but what you don't understand is that they find any reason to increase rates. My brother had a kidney infection years ago, and he's forced to pay a higher rate due to some stupid bullshit like that.

I am the perfection of genetics. I have no fear of any illness and no need for health insurance.

Still I argue the reasoning behind it.

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Originally Posted by Destin

I am the perfection of genetics. I have no fear of any illness and no need for health insurance.

Still I argue the reasoning behind it.

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Like they say, it's gambling on yourself. I have health insurance but I haven't been to the doctor in ages.