Zelda sucks, this is confirmed.
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Zelda sucks, this is confirmed.
Where did he say this? I recall him saying it was too similar to SMB3 considering Sonic was a new experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Super Mario World is still awesome, though. I like sharing my initials with it.
Let's not get stupid here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff-chan
I believe it was in Game Over. He said it was rushed to market and he wasn't happy with it. Yes, I know that doesn't mean it sucks, but it does confirm my view that it simply isn't as polished as other Marios.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Never liked on game outside of the first link. I woud have rathered played Magic of Schrezzade (or however you spell it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
And you're going to criticize MarkRyan now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff-chan
Sure, because is the realm of gaming Zelda doesn't even surpass my top 20, it's dumbed down exploration for tweeners, that's all.
It came out in 1986. Dumbed down compared to what?
I'm talking about anything since the NES, we grew up the game never did. That's nintendo's fucking problem.
Hmm, I have read the book five or so times (minus the Tetris stuff) and I don't recall that (although my memory is probably going downhill). It doesn't surprise me that he would have felt rushed, though. The only Nintendo-developed Mario games that felt less than polished to me were SMB2j and Sunshine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I don't think it's the account.
I actually really agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
This isn't the hockey thread, and you aren't quoting me. Therefore, you must be delirious.
I'm sorry I didn't realize any of Finch's posts were actually serious. I thought they were just all trying to be ass backwards of reality.
Link to the Past was amazing, at the time it came out and now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff-chan
Ocarina of Time did a great job as far as control and camera were concerned (by standards of the day) but it wasn't really very fun. Slow paced.
I played it for 10 minutesQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Also, I hold firm that the only people that could deny Sonic 1 or 2 are people that never owned them and fucking played them at a TRU kiosk and went back to their Nintendo fanboy caves. Absolutely some of the best the genre has ever seen.
Except for Sonic CD.
It really picks up at minute 11.Quote:
I played it for 10 minutes
Never really digged them either, but then again I didn't really like any mario brother except the current one and 3.
I wasn't into Sonic.
Sonic is overrated and I owned all of them. I even traded my NES in with all of my games just so I COULD own a genesis and sonic 1 and 2 early. I still regret that. That's when I stopped trusting other people.
I don't know why I kept buying them or even why I played through them, I didn't really enjoy any of them. Kind of like Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door.
So, sorry Frog.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Did you find Z:TP to be better than Z:OOT?
Never bothered with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoleTroll
What's not to like? They were fast, flashy, and still deep as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
OOT has nostalgia going for it. TP I never even finished, I was losing enthusiasm steadily and halfway through the last dungeon I just stopped kidding myself that I was having fun.
The zelda that ruined the franchise for me was actually Minish Cap on GBA.
MM is the best of the 3d zeldas, no joke, with WW in second. I'm with the F-Chans on this one.
Wind Waker had the highest highs, but also the lowest lows, and the lows were far more plentiful. Everything that wasn't a dungeon were probably among the worst moments in gaming ever in my book.
Worst moments in gaming ever? :wtf:
Sonic is better than Mario is Missing, Mario's Time Machine, Hotel Mario, Mario Pinball, Mario Party, I am a Teacher: Super Mario no Sweater, DDR: Mario Mix, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, and maybe Mario Teaches Typing.
Sonic Adventure is better than Mario 64 though.
I agree with you too. Mario World is about as good as Sonic 2.Quote:
P.S. Super Mario World still sucks, and apparently Miyamoto agrees with me.
No hate on Gunstar, it's a decent game with a lot of variety. It just doesn't last long and never caught me for replays. I liked Vectorman a lot more.Quote:
I can agree on Sonic, I never got it. But why the hate on Gunstar?
I had a friend across the street who made me play Sonic 2 every day until i beat it. It was fun at first, but after Chemical Plant, i just couldn't stand the stupid game. It only got worse and i really started to hate going over there. Then it was Road Rash, which i never had fun with. Sonic 2 gives me headaches and nightmares.Quote:
Also, I hold firm that the only people that could deny Sonic 1 or 2 are people that never owned them and fucking played them at a TRU kiosk and went back to their Nintendo fanboy caves. Absolutely some of the best the genre has ever seen.
I liked the original until college when i finally really sat down and played it. When i realized how little variety there was between levels, i never went back. Every few years i think maybe i was wrong, but i always prove to myself that i wasn't.
Sonic for NGPC, despite being a slightly remixed Sonic 2, agreed with me a lot more.
Yes. Staring at a blue screen and occasionally having to tap the analog to keep a shark from hitting me for 15 minutes at a clip is not my idea of fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
It's as if they somehow managed to take all the fun of a loading screen and make it worse.
When it was fast you had no control. The rest of the time it didn't feel fast at all, he walked slow and when you rolled you were vulnerable most of the time. they WERE very pretty, and they were kind of boring. The levels were too convoluted as you went on, and the backgrounds were almost too noisy. Some stages gave me a headache. The up and down scrolling pissed me off in places where you would die jumping down because you weren't sure what was down there, didn't like the feel of Sonic's jumps, they were too floaty...on and on I could go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
All the rolling around was bullshit. It was more like watching a cutscene than anything. Without a ramp you couldn't really take off as fast as I'd like. You'd rev and rev up and kind of, bleh out of it.
I admit there were a lot of secrets to find, that was the only thing about them I really liked. The levels were "deep" but most of the time I think they were just too big for their own good. I enjoyed maybe...a quarter of the levels in each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
The main town was awesome to explore and quest around. Sailing sort of relaxed me, I didn't mind it at all, but my major gripe is none of the islands to explore were interesting at all, the submarines and pirate platforms were repetetive (but climbing the platforms were hella fun) I liked the endless cave even though it was sort of torturous. The dungeons and getting to the dungeons was all fantastic, and I liked the story and pirate theme. Also, best Zelda and Ganon iterations so far.
You can't be serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
I think sonic is just...It really wasn't the tight platforming I wanted from it, and they weren't really challenging except for finding your way around the obscenely large maps. I also didn't like the ring system.
I'd compare Sonic to like a larger Mario 64, (if you use this simply as a platforming analogy where 64 was more about exploring around at your own pace) when I wanted something more like Mario Galaxy.
You know, Mario Galaxy should have a time limit on every stage. Then it would really really really feel like the original formula.
Gunstar Heroes is pretty sweet but not top 100. I'd rather put Contra Hard Corps in top 100, even though Gunstar has a lot more variety imo.
Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
And the idea was to always go fast. It was all about finding your flow through the level. The control was very precise. The game wasn't about stopping on a dime. You want to find ways to keep going and use your momentum to your advantage.
You'd think after the first time you'd realize you're not supposed to do that.Quote:
The up and down scrolling pissed me off in places where you would die jumping down because you weren't sure what was down there
They weren't challenging to beat, but they were challenging to master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
Don't troll me, you know I have taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Yeah, i'm not with that either. Sailing could be slow, but i enjoyed it and finding new islands was really a treat. The only low in the game was that nothing that you found on the little islands mattered much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
Or can i? I'm fine until i get to Marble Zone and the opening and most of the level of 2-2 is exactly the same as 2-1. After the first few levels in any Sonic, the level design becomes stupid and i can't play anymore.Quote:
You can't be serious.
I am literally talking about all those gay ass loops and shit you had to roll through. The most fun that can be had with the game is trying to go as fast as you can through each level at all times, but meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I hate games that are only fun to play if you play it on the hardest setting, or if you only play a certain way. Look at all the bad feedback people got from Bioshock because once they figured out Vita Chambers were free they didn't care anymore. It should be fun any way they allow you to play. If you leave a decision open-ended, users will play through any way they want. You can't argue that someone just "didn't get Sonic" because they didn't play it right. That's design problems.
Totally agree, though I'd start with zone 3 at the serious disappointment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
Sometimes there were good things down there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Each zone has a pretty different style of gameplay, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch;1063990114Or [i
I'll admit I hate Labyrinth Zone, but the rest of the game is awesome.
Also, for cow, this is how you're supposed to play Sonic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
Count me in in the anti-Sonic camp. Here's a direct copy and paste from a recent thread in another forum: The ideas are good, but every Sonic game has obnoxious level design that seems deliberately done to remove any fun from the game. There are always spike strips in places where you can get up speed, there are blind jumps, those spring boosts often lead to enemies or spikes, and so on.
I think the Adventure Island series does a much better job with speed platforming. Those games have great control, lots of motivation for going fast, and really fair levels that will punish you for screwing up but not because you didn't use your psychic abilities to predict the hidden traps that the level designer put in.
And why the hate for Gunstar? It isn't quite the best run and gun around, but it is certainly a great game. Maybe a little on the easy side, I guess.
Cow: There's a difference between intentionally handicapping yourself by avoiding a feature and just lazily ignoring the gameplay systems that form the foundation of the game.
I'm not saying "No you need to play Sonic without getting rings" or something ridiculous. I'm just saying you're bad at the game and missing the point. It's like playing Street Fighter and not knowing how to do special moves.
This is just stupid. No Sonic game outside of the Advance series has ever done this.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
I played through sonic similarly to that video, but the first time through I really sort of walked through the first couple of levels becuase it was so different. So no, I wouldn't say I was bad at the game.
Still, not my bag.
I thought you were jumping down bottomless pits and trying to explore their hugeness. Which was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
The first time through? I explored every nook and cranny I could. But since then I've played through 1 and 2 each about 15 times...mostly because I didn't have an NES to play anymore at the time.
Perhaps I'm just bitter at losing an NES with a 50 game library and getting a genesis with 5 games. Shining Force being my fav of those 5 games. (Sonic 1, 2, Ecco, Shining Force, Golden Axe)
You can't hit that by running into the side of the spikes, and you can see it coming. Just jump over it, stupid.
I'm pretty sure I jumped that the first time I played. It's not hard. Do you expect a fully clear path with no obstacles?
My worst moment of gaming ever was suffering through the entire shitpile that was Ikari Warriors 2 and then realizing the game had a glitch and a couldn't even finish it.
I almost punched myself.
Mario sucks because there were goombas everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
I'm not sure how the "you're supposed to play it this way" argument sits with me when the game can be easily beaten otherwise.
It'd be one thing if the time limits were restrictive, or if it kept track of your best times (unlikely), but I'm just not seeing it.
It's crazy, though, really, since I haven't sat down and played a decent amount of the Genesis Sonic games since I was really young.
You can beat Street Fighter without using combos, too.
I beat your mom with a whopper combo last week.
Somebody mentioned Sonic CD. I always felt that was a game that had a lot of good ideas, but the time travel mechanic didn't work as well as it could have. Great boss fights though.
Not when it's in its lowered mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
No. I expect a path with no hidden obstacles. "WTF just killed me?" is a sign that the designers did something wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Sonic CD is a great game in its own right, but it's different from the others and doesn't work on the same level.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
They're not hidden. You have to be careful and make quick decisions whether to stop or jump. Mario games have just as many areas where it's not smart to blindly do a big jump.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
Going off memory and blindly running through levels in Mario 1 is still extremely fun.
Sonic shines when those situations arise.
I want you all to note that I'd probably still stick Sonic in a top 100, but not in my top 25 by a long shot.
Sonic 2 plz. 1 falls apart after playing the sequel.
Disagree. 1, 2, and 3 are all fantastic in different ways. Sonic 2 is obviously the best for raw speed, but they all have their charm. I think I played 1 more than 2, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Too much block pushing in 1, IMO. Kills the momentum.
Street Fighter is a competitive game through and through, but I see your point. I think it's just weird for me to imagine playing Sonic and caring about my time.Quote:
You can beat Street Fighter without using combos, too.
It does, but again, not all Sonic 1's levels are about speed like 2. It has more variety. Starlight Zone is still a joy.Even if you're not being competitive about time, it's still more fun to feel like you're kicking a game's ass then to stumble awkwardly through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain
The music in Sonic 2 was what I always loved about it as a kid. I sucked at the game though, no fronting.
I love that someone is complaining that an old-school platforming game has obstacles. So you died on a spike, jump over it the next time.
The only Sonic level that I think was outright bullshit was (I believe) from Sonic 2 on GG, where the entire thing was bottomless pits with tiny ledges that had springs on them. You were supposed to bounce from spring to spring across the stage, but there was no way to tell how far you'd flown so it was impossible to judge where you were in mid-air. Aside from that, while I don't love the old Sonic games (except Sonic Chaos, but I haven't played it in about a decade) they were very solid platformers through and through.
I'd always get to the Casino level and keep fucking around with the slot machine things.
Sonic 2 was pretty fun up until that boring as hell oil refinery level. I don't think I'd put any of them on my top 100, though I did like 3D Blast and Spinball a great deal.
There was a Genesis game right up your alley:Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
3D Blast and Spinball were your favorite Sonics?Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
I <3 Finch and mostly agree with this. The first Sonic was some damn good shit, the others not so much. The first GBA Sonic was some good shit as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
If someone forced me to play a Sonic game of my choosing today, I'd go with Spinball or 3D Blast. I realize I should probably apologize for that, but the vanilla Sonic games wore thin long before Spinball/3DB did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
:wtf:
Hooray!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv
i'm surprised that other people don't like the Sonic games. I was in love with the comics and cartoon, but i never liked the series after i actually played the games. Still want to play the gba Sonics.
You said this before and i agree with you. I never played the Adventure Islands until recently, and then only the first and New Adventure Island. They're fun as biscuits and i'm sad i didn't give them a chance way back in the day. I'd really like to play the rest.Quote:
I think the Adventure Island series does a much better job with speed platforming.
Huh. Speaking of, Adventure Island should be in the top 100.
Downgraded ports of other games aren't exactly top 100 material.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
Wonder Boy. Whatever you want to call it.
It's ironic that WonderBoy started as a speed platformer and ended with MWIV, which is one of the slowest, most poorly-paced videogames I have ever played.
Is it just opposite day and nobody told me?
Everything in New England is fucking backward. It's not his fault.
I can understand not liking Sonic Spinball or 3D Blast, but you seriously can't understand where I'm coming from on MWIV? I'm the only one who would've preferred eight smaller dungeons to four overly long, repetitive as hell exercises in genericalness?
Adventure Island II is my favourite of the series. AI1 comes up short compared to Wonderboy, but I think the sequels (well, except for AI4) do a great job of tweaking and improving the original WB gameplay.
#20-11 are up. I have to give them (not MarkRyan though) credit for getting TIE Fighter in at #12.
weeeeellllll, IF you are going on influence, Sonic needs to be on the list. It was really the beginning of the end for top sellers needing to be balls hard. The whole ring mechanic allowed players with any skill to stay alive regardless of minor screw ups. The game also flowed really really really well compared to all previous platformers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
If you are going by gameplay, I'd say sonic 2. If you don't like sonic 2 you are a soulless bastard.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
It was made of plastic.
I liked New Adventure Island on TG16 more than the NES ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
Also, another thing that bugs me about this IGN article is the complete inconsistency when listing the games' formats. They appear to be trying to list every format a game came out on but they are almost always missing games. Why is the NES version of Pirates! listed but not the C64 version? Why are Bionic Commando and Sonic listed by multiple formats when some of them are completely different games that have the same name?
They should have saved themselves the trouble and just listed one version for each instead of half-assing the research.
Shadow of the Colossus at #16? I really like SotC, don't get me wrong, but the sixteenth best game of all time? The technical issues alone should prevent this.
No Elite or Wizball on the list. Betcha the C64 classics are going to be snubbed.
A lot of games before Sonic did not give you the ability to control if you died when you fucked up, at least not on the level of sonic. Many games gave you like 2 or 3 hits before you died. And things were even worse with previous genesis games as many were ports of arcade games but with no ability to continue mid game by sticking in money. With many early gen games, if you got hit one or two times, you had to restart the level.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
But with sonic, if you had a little bit of skill, you could get a lost ring and keep yourself alive. Only in selective levels and areas were you forced to die and restart if you got hit.
That was one of the reasons sonic became so popular. That play mechanic made it a lot easier to beat and a lot less frustrating compared to earlier console games. Game developers took note of this and games have steadily gotten easier since then.
I'm pretty amazed that I've played every game on this list to completion
Huge props to X-com. That game is definitely in my top 25.
Eh? Did I read that right? You've finished every game on the list?
Yeah, I wouldn't be so proud of finishing a Pokemon game.
How did you beat Simcity 2000? The end boss is tough.
all the ones that were able to be finished. Are you morons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
Also, I played the fuck out of SimCity2000.
I'll tell you what though, I didn't play through Pokemon Blue. My brother did. I played through Red. We each got a copy the same christmas, they let us open them early, and we played all night and all of christmas day.
There were a whole lot of easier console platform games before Sonic, though not on a Sega console since you were getting those horrible Alex Kidd games. I don't think the ring thing made it any less difficult, just more obnoxious to chase after. I think Sonic became popular because it was a not completely horrible mascot platformer with attitude, nothing doing with rings and being easier. Sonic gets pretty tough pretty quickly, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Well good. I enjoy that one as well, let's put it on the secret top 100.Quote:
I liked New Adventure Island on TG16 more than the NES ones.
Probably for the same reason that Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy will never be on there.Quote:
No Elite or Wizball on the list. Betcha the C64 classics are going to be snubbed.
Good to see they have taste with Miss Pac-man and the original Doom, though. No list with those two that high can be completely bad.
Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy were terrible, though. They do not deserve a place on any list of good games. It's just that poor Spectrum owners had nothing else to play, so they latched onto whatever they could.
for who? Finch you might suck at games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
A few of the ones I wrote just came up. They made me look dumb by listing the Japanese date for Super Mario World, though, when the text is written to refer to the US release.
How ironic was it that I got to write that one?
Maybe you're just good at Sonic and bad at anything that came before it.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacude
Speaking of which, the Boo Mario in Galaxy struck me immediately as a wandering pervert. There's something freakish about his face with the bug eyes and mustache, and the constant tongue hanging out makes me feel like I've gotten a hold on a Pedobear videogame supporting character.