Election Thread 2008 MAKE SURE YOU VOTE

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

There's been a lot of bullshit YouTube videos posted in this thread, but here's one from a guy who's earned the right to have an opinion:

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He makes probably the most important point that most people either aren't aware of or maybe even don't believe:

"The Iraqi people are just like us."

I am so tired of hearing shit like, "Those people aren't like us," or, "They hate us," or, "They hate our freedoms," or, "We should just bomb that whole area."

Whether or not you agree with this guy's choice for President, if you don't agree with that line I pointed out, that is sad. I'm sure you can find some Iraqis who think they were better off under Hussein but that isn't the point.

That said, the Iraq war was a mistake in its execution. If the U.S. was going to engage in a humanitarian effort to help the Iraqi people, they should have had the support of the rest of the world because the rest of the world should be interested in these sorts of things. I think it's safe to say that we could have spared a lot more lives (and legs, yikes) if, instead of trying to find an easy target to take our 9/11 aggression out on, we actually sat down and talked it over. But we didn't, which was a mistake. The choice of helping the Iraqi people and fighting/dying for them is not.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

He makes probably the most important point that most people either aren't aware of or maybe even don't believe:

"The Iraqi people are just like us."

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The people blowing his friends up with IEDs are Iraqis too, you know. If you frame the argument as "only the people that are like us are real Iraqis" then conveniently they turn out to be just like us, but it's really a childish oversimplification of the reality of things.

They're just like us in the sense that they value their health and well being, want their children to be safe and happy, want to walk the streets in peace, and practice their religion as they see fit.

They are not like us in many other ways. They do not believe in American freedom. They simply don't. It's not a value of their culture. They don't all believe that Jews have as much rights to their faith as they do, they don't all believe in tolerance of other viewpoints... Those aren't their values, they're ours.

Now, here's my issue with Iraq: If they value their freedoms, they should be fighting for them. And we, as fellow humans who believe in freedom, should be proud to stand alongside them in that fight. But we should not be initiating that fight, and we should not be doing it for them. If they aren't fighting for it, I won't be convinced it's as important to them as it is to us.

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I am so tired of hearing shit like, "Those people aren't like us," or, "They hate us," or, "They hate our freedoms," or, "We should just bomb that whole area."

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Yeah, well Randy Newman wrote a song about it in 1972. That's just a universal dumbass assessment of the situation and the other side of the "just like us" coin.

You both have a point!

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen...OBAMA-huge.jpg

do not break my frames ~ burg

Zombie McCain will rip out your trachea with his teeth.

Anyone who has felt compelled to use the word "sanguine," here's your chance.

I think they're about to make out.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

However, most men in service, as well as nearly every veteran's group that has endorsed a candidate, back Obama.

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Bull fucking shit. Where are you getting this nonsense?

Your mama runs a poll.

Leave my mom's eastern European slave trade out of this.