Election Thread 2008 MAKE SURE YOU VOTE

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Dissolving the antiquated unions would be a good start toward bringing manufacturing back.

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It wasn't unions who drove away manufacturing, though I'll grant you that a century of labor rights struggle to get the average American worker to where he is today in terms of salary and basic rights may have. So, if you're saying what we need to do is get rid of Child Labor laws, the 40 hour work week, overtime, safety standards, etc. and that will bring back cheap jobs from the third world, then I can't help but agree. I just find the idea to be positively sickening and am comforted by the fact that the people wouldn't stand for it. No, what we need is to withdraw from exploitative trade policies and bring back the power of American consumerism to the the country itself rather than the vulturous multinational corporations.

That's fine. Then the jobs will just be moved instead, because the short-sighted idiots in the unions can't see that their union bosses are the only ones benefiting in the long-term.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's fine. Then the jobs will just be moved instead, because the short-sighted idiots in the unions can't see that their union bosses are the only ones benefiting in the long-term.

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You nailed it.

"But if I join the union, they promise to put in a new watercooler."

If we were to dissolve unions there would have to be greater government regulations to ensure quality of life.

IF we had universal healthcare, a solid minimum wage, and social security needs taken care of, the unions would be a lot less neccessary and Yoshi's point isn't entirely off base. I'm generally pro-union, but it's possible to get this country to where it isn't needed.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's fine. Then the jobs will just be moved instead, because the short-sighted idiots in the unions can't see that their union bosses are the only ones benefiting in the long-term.

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No, the short-sided idiots are the ones working service jobs and expecting job security or real benefits. Knowing that it's only a matter of time before the ax drops and they're back at square one, running on a treadmill of debt and with no one to turn to when their employer screws them out of their due wages.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Leave this thread quietly, buttplant, before you dig an even deeper hole. Frog was dead on about our manufacturing and export problems.

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he isn't right. he is kind of right, but delusional and his solution is a step backwards.

His statement about welcoming in tons of new immigrants so we will have lots of new production is just unfounded. We don't know that more people will cause more industry. We can't just assume that there are just tons of fat cats setting around, wishing they had a labor force that would work for 4.00 instead of 5.50 and they'd make all our dreams come true if they just had that work force.

And as I said, and gozen later elaborated on, to let them in and put them to work as things are now is just inhumane. Opening up our own sweat shops is not a viable solution.

It's very much viable; It's just immoral as well.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

If we were to dissolve unions there would have to be greater government regulations to ensure quality of life.

IF we had universal healthcare, a solid minimum wage, and some other basic needs taken care of, the unions would be a lot less neccessary and Yoshi's point isn't entirely off base. I'm generally pro-union, but it's possible to get this country to where it isn't needed.

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It isn't needed now, it's a detriment. By and large most jobs (jobs, not professions), if they were to go union, would either be outsourced, moved somewhere with no union penetration within the country, or are so low on the food chain that anyone could do them and you'd have people scabbing in droves.

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Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

It isn't needed now, it's a detriment. By and large most jobs, if they were to go union, would either be outsourced, moved somewhere with no union penetration within the country, or are so low on the food chain that anyone could do them and you'd have people scabbing in droves.

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You're making two different points here, and only one is right. Jobs that do go union are outsourced, it does happen, but that doesn't make it right and it most certainly doesn't mean that union representation for workers isn't needed. In fact I contend it's more needed now than ever.