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I'll give you the same challenge I gave TODE, which he failed. Show me where, in Obama's plan, it says he will not let the Bush tax cuts expire. This isn't hard, and it isn't a one liner. It's how he's going to raise taxes without saying the words. He's a lying sack of shit, and you guys didn't bother to learn enough to realize that.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
I agree with this, but at least Obama won't have free reign to do every stupid thing in his playbook. I'd take 4 years of do nothing, like Clinton's first term, than 4 years of going backward.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
No, I'm out for what is right, and that is keeping what you earn and working for what you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
What the fuck is this nonsense? Why should I subsidize your Peter Pan syndrome? "I want to play video games and be paid for it." Join the fucking club, but some of us realized that wasn't going to pay the bills. If you want more money, then get a real job. If you don't want more money, then shut the fuck up about "spreading the wealth".Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Question Yoshi. You always talk about cutting taxes, and to me it sounds like that's all you would ever want to do. So what do you think is a fair tax rate where you would no longer want to lower them?
Maybe YOU should show where it says he WILL let the Bush tax cuts expire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Do you ever donate to charity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
God damn does this need to be framed in my office.
Yes, over the normal 1% in fact. I only donate to children's and animals' charities. Adult humans should pull their own weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
I'll donate to veterans hospitals, childrens's hospitals, and cancer research.
Fuck welfare assistance.
HIS HEART GREW THREE SIZES THAT DAY
It's a good question, but none of us see enough of the cost side to know the answer. On a federal level, I am willing to pay for the military, interstates, national parks, and not much else, though I could be forgetting something obvious. Once those are adequately funded, the IRS can fuck off.Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy
What is the ideal America for you two? Who's in, who's out, what's gone?
He's not dumb enough to put that in print, so it's not there. He just lets people who want to believe him assume incorrectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
Why is TODE even posting here?
Democrats will vote out Bush's tax cuts early in 09, that's a promise.
Anyone who works full time at a job that maximizes their abilities, acts like a parent if they have kids, and doesn't commit crimes is pretty much ok with me. It would take three pages to fully answer the question, but that's the bare bones of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
I am confused, how could you think that he's not going to get rid of the bush tax cuts, if he's going to raise taxes on corporate by 4%.
Or are those taxes supposed to be in two different areas?
Tode is just machine gunning a party line he can't actually comprehend. Best to ignore him.
Without trying to be a huge dick, it scares me that you vote and ask questions like that.
Welcome to a good 60% of the liberal party Yoshi.
Their agenda is quite simple and well informed;
1) Bush Sucks
2) Bush Sucks
3) McCain is old
You skipped one:
1) Everyone who has more money than me is a crook and should be punished.
Actually I skipped 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
5) I want to be just like everybody else
It's not a punishment, it's just a civic duty, assigned partly by capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Fuck off. If you want a civic duty, get a job that pays your own damn bills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
bullshit frog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
you need stop wanting to punish the successful by taking their money and then wonder why they take their investments, business, and expertise overseas.
How hard is this to understand?
Yes, this one is key. This is where the Hollywood idiots come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
At least now we know how Frog considers Obama to be a centrist. Everything is relative.
I want our government to have the money it needs to run successfully without kneecapping the consumer base of this country. The only way to accomplish this is to take money from the people that have it to spare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Our country has done very well since implementing a bracketed tax structure. It's good for all of us. It has nothing to do with punishment or resentment or anything of the sort. It's just the best way to make the best country.
If you give money to the middle class, they will happily return it to the upper class of their own free will every time. It's what they do. Then we all win.
How about we take money out of the god damned pork and irrational spending of local governments first, k?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Show me that "successful government" you dream abuot that is doing it buy smashing the bottom lines of those who have made themselves a success.
I'll all for taxing family inheritance and gas companies to the extreme btw.
Excellent. You buy games, which means you must have money to spare. You should be at the front of the "tax me more" line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Then why is Obama going to let middle class taxes go up? You need to preach to his dumb ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
The south would collapse. 84% of states propped up by the fed, taking in more money than they contribute, are red states.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Also I don't like that every example of "Pork" that McCain or Palin has referenced has been scientific. We need more science.
Define the middle class however you want, the group of people that make up 98% of consumer spending in this country are getting a cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
The domestic poor can NOT carry this country, no matter how hard they try. They do not invest, do not buy houses, and do not purchase new cars. Why do we want to put more money in their pockets? The only people who benefit will be the board of marlborough, budweiser, and mcdonalds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I really wish every democrat in the planet would get this idea drilled into their heads.
I get my games for free, son.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I call bullshit that you don't buy any games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
No, they're not. Go read the last two pages of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
So basically just more assuming on your part. Not exactly ROCK SOLID EVIDENCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
He noticed me! :D So what do you say to Yoshi not supporting our veterans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Frog explain how taking 15,000 away from a guy who invests, utilizes banks, pays insurance, owns a house, owns 2 cars, and pays his bills (benefits about 5,000 people) is somehow worse for the country then giving a poor family an extra 150 dollars a year?
It's his plan, and you're the one supporting it. The burden of proof is on your side, and you can't prove it for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
Dead Space was the first game I bought in 2008. And even if I was buying games, those are tax deductible business expenses, my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Then how come the "successful" needed a $700-billion government bailout?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Oh, so you're one of those rich people who looks for tax loopholes. I keep hearing about people like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Because the poor can't or won't pay their bills, did you really just ask this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
But what about the BMWs they buy with their welfare checks? I thought that's how it worked. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Because they were strong armed to accept poor people who couldn't afford the loans they were given by ass hats like Barney Frank.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
And I was still against the bail out, because that's not the solution.
You mean the ones that get repo'd in 2 months? My buddy owns an repo company that makes a shitload of money off them.Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy
Can't do it anymore, their credit is fucked (about time)
I've actually seen this, but I hope it's the exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy
Your assertion is equally unprovable because we are both at two sides of an unknown. Except that you are "sure" you will be proven right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Also I think I made clear that I am not voting for Obama or McCain based on their tax plans because tax-related promises mean SHIT after the election is over. Bush-41 proved that.
I'm not, I'm saying taking $15,000 from that guy and giving it to the people that shop at his clothing store will ultimately work out for both of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
And moreover, I'm saying that there is a real problem right now that the middle class of the country is shrinking, and our economic problems are not entirely unrelated to that. This is a real statistical trend of the last 7 years, and we need the middle class to drive the economy and keep the upper class in business.
If that weren't true, if there wasn't a trend of a shrinking middle class in America, I could buy the "if it ain't broke" line, but that's not the case.
Happens more than you think. Mom rolling in an escalade, kids in hand me down clothes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I know. Most liberals don't vote based on the real issues. You like Obama's ability to talk to stupid people. I guess that will get us improved relations with Europe but not much else.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Outside of Frog, YAWA, and MVS nobody claiming liberal in this thread have one fucking clue about how government works.
LOL. No shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
I'm open-minded enough to hear Yoshi make his case and would love to hear him prove his assertion. But he can't, so he won't (which means he gets hostile and starts saying "fuck" in his posts).
Prove me wrong, Yosh, and I'll happily eat crow. Just post your source. And if you can't, be man enough to eat some crow yourself.
It just seems counter-intuitive to think that if he's going to raise taxes on them he's going to keep a tax cut there. But I haven't read what Bush's tax cuts were honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
For me this election came down to Foreign Policy, and I really really am swayed by a more diplomatic person than someone who makes an ass of himself everytime he's in the spotlight at this point.
I don't think either candidate is going to make the country worse, and while I've been trying to do research since this is my first time voting, It would be a flat out lie for me to say that I know for sure who would be better economically.
Some things are more important than money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
WHAT THE FUCK MEACH? THERE IS NO SOURCE, it's on the libs to prove that Obama will retain the tax cut. Jesus you people are thick headed.
How dense are you? The Democrats have been counting the days until they expire. It is completely logical to assume that Obama is going to allow that to happen when his plan doesn't say otherwise. As I said before, he would have to be an even bigger idiot than I already think he is to be honest about this detail. He's savvy enough to know that most people are too dumb to see through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Tell that to ObamaQuote:
Originally Posted by TODE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I agree. National security is one of them, and Obama will fuck that up too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODE
This is a really cool site that runs mathematical sims on the polls (basically takes the polls and turns them into probabilities). Tons of fun to play with.
http://www.270towin.com/
JOURNALISM FAIL:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
For the last time, the tax cut is going to expire. Have you heard anything from the dream team about extending the cut?
No?
Then shut up about it.
:wtf: If you voted on foreign policy and picked Obama, then you really blew it. Even his campaign knows that isn't his strength. Obama isn't more diplomatic. He's weaker, and there's a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief Silver
The middle east and russia can't wait for Obama to get elected, mark that down.
Sometimes... you must BECOME what you HATE in order to DEFEAT IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Playing everywhere on January 20th.
Of course. They're losing a race, and they want the leader's car to have the equivalent of a woman driver so they can catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Have you heard anything about NOT extending the cut?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
IIRC it expires in 2011 and I imagine they would want to win the 2012 elections... and no-one wins an re-election after they raise taxes (ask Bush-41).
LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Yosh said everybody's taxes will go up under Obama's tax plan. Just show me where he's said that, what part of his plan will do that.
Jesus Christ. He's not going to say it, because he's a lying piece of shit who has millions of stupid people fooled. He is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, which will raise everyone's taxes. This isn't that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
At least they know it. Conservatives (religious ones in particular) frame themselves as a battered minority despite the fact that they comprise 95% of talk radio and that a candidate that doesn't make Christian values a part of their platform is completely unviable in this country. Conformity ain't grand but when the alternative is buying into some fantasyland persecution complex, well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I know nothing about this site, but the writer is saying the exact same thing I have been for the last two pages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Link above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Appreciate you manning up here and posting that. Since it's a blog, and its two (lol) sources are the White House website and the Heritage Foundation, I'll take it with a grain of salt.
In all seriousness, thx for backing up your claim. Agree to disagree, imo.
Neither can the rest of the world and most of this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
If you're happy being wrong, good for you. I believe they expire next year, so we'll all be hit by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Are you so naive that you honestly think that the rest of the world wants what is best for the US?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
He wants to bring happiness to everyone by relieving them of their spare cash. Does that answer your question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
qftQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Yosh, don't ever change, man. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
YOUR UNDERWEAR
Fuck. Obama wants to tax those now?
I think Pacrappa (<3 pacrappa) should probably stay away from here.
You think right. Nobody here wants to hear from me on politics. That's the truth.
Josh and Destin are true. This country's work habits are completely fucked up and soul crushing jobs are not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
We're fucked if this is a prevalent opinion of our generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
You have seen who the only two guys on your side in this are, right? Obama's right over their heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
And even being serious, the Republicans have been positioning themselves as the party of the uneducated for years now. They hold a significant edge among people with only a high school education or less. They even use moran mascots/visual aids by bring Joe the not-actually-a-plumber on stage.
They like people who can't spell things like habeas corpus, makes things easier.
No, but generally when the entire world agrees on something, it's not all bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
The rest of the world wants what is best for it, of course, and that includes having decent, non-crazy politicians running the most influential country in the world. Sometimes what is best for one party can overlap with what's best for another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
If you're implying that the majority of the world is just jonesing for our collapse, then excuse me for thinking you're unrealistically paranoid.
it took me one click to see that guy writes 80% stories about space and 20% drudge-level commentaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
:rolleyes:
He can put two and two together though, so he's ahead of most people.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
the fact that you keep calling a president of the harvard law review and a constitutional law scholar an idiot destroys whatever shreds of credibility your arguments could potentially possessQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
The fact that you assume you can measure intelligence by what piece of paper is hanging on a guy's wall does the same to you. yawa went to Harvard, and he can't put a sentence together in this thread.
But it could be that Obama knows that everything he is doing is completely self-serving and won't help the country he hates one iota, so maybe intelligence isn't the issue.
Slavery? Trusting Hitler? I could go on all day, but the point is that the rest of the world is just as dumb as the average American. Maybe dumber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
You're naive if you don't think that's exactly what the rest of the world wants. The rest of the world knows Obama will do stupid things like increase UN funding to further legitimize that completely corrupt organiation, and they love it. It lets them play in our sand box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salsashark
yes, and so did bush jr., and i don't think he's bright eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
you can disagree with obama's politics and even his sincerity (re: his policies) but these "pieces of paper" represent tremendous accomplishments for self-made men. it's only ironically the degrees of bush jr. and mccain who got them because of their daddies that diminishes them.
Starbucks is giving out free tall coffees on Nov 4th to voters. Just go and tell them you voted.
Daddy > Affirmative ActionQuote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
I don't think this is true. There are people, like me, that vote on what's fair and will help benefit the majority of the people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
I don't understand why it's so hard to know what will happen under Obama's policy. Is it written in a way that it'll be impossible to understand? Either everyone's taxes will go up like Yoshi says, or they won't. Why is it so hard for everyone to acknowledge one or the other? I'm still not 100% sold on which way to vote, but I know which way I'm leaning, it'd just be nice to have clarification on most of what's being said and going to be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi