He's absolutely going to pick Richardson. Obama will benefit from the experience that Richardson brings to the table and from the hispanic votes he'll bring in.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
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He's absolutely going to pick Richardson. Obama will benefit from the experience that Richardson brings to the table and from the hispanic votes he'll bring in.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Well, Obama's campaign has always been a tenuous proposition at best. He's a black democrat named Barack Hussein Obama, for Christ's sake - based purely on his external characteristics, the idea of him being in the White House is still faintly ridiculous.
Hillary has been willing to use negative campaigning to ply on the country's fears and base prejudices in a way that I don't think McCain would have (or could have).
I worry that Clinton's negative campaigning has made resorting to those prejudices a legitimate political response, that the cat's out of the bag, in a sense. Now that that response has been legitimized, it's given permission to people who would normally interpret Obama's external characteristics as a net negative to dismiss Obama and tune out.
It's going to be hard for Obama to win those people back.
By stepping aside and giving Obama a cakewalk to his November coronation, Clinton would effectively kill her chances of running as the 2012 "I Told You So" candidate. That's not gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
In my home state of Virginia, candidates' full names are spelled out on the ballot. I'm not sure how many other states follow suit, but it certainly doesn't help matters. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: his name is going to be far more of a liability than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
Of course, it's not right, but what can you do?
Ignoring the fact that she can't overtake Obama in pledged delegates or popular votes and smearing him with bullshit in an attempt to hijack the nomination helps her chances in 2012? Her best shot at ever becoming the President is somehow convincing Obama to take her as his running mate (which he'd be insane to do).Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
People said the same thing about a divorcee ex-actor from California.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
I really think you're reaching here. The Hussein thing has been floated many times before, and its never stuck and it still doesn't. The people who are affected by that kind of politics weren't voting for Obama anyway, they're Republicans. Among Independents he's still polling ahead of McCain. This Rev. Wright thing doesn't even measure up to a Jennifer Flowers incident, and even that couldn't stop Bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
That's already proven to be false; Hillary's gotten a lot of mileage out of gutter politics with low-income uneducated Democratic voters. Republicans generally like Obama far more than Hillary supporters do. If Obama was a fiscal conservative I'd be out campaigning for him right now. Stone's right about Hillary legitimizing prejudice politics; we've never seen a primary battle this ugly and Hillary's success has been overwhelmingly due to that ugliness.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Obama has won more votes from all demographics except Latinos. Don't believe the buzzword of the day.
That's got nothing to do with the fact that, according to polls, Hillary gets a bump from low income and uneducated voters when she launches a gutter attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
And current republicans are fiscal conservative?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I think it's time you got your head checked.
Bush certainly isn't but there's reason to believe McCain is.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
There was once reason to believe he was, before he became a party toadie.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
No, it's pretty simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
There is no good reason for us to be there. None.
Time to leave.
As someone who fought in Vietnam, I would think Powell would be more inclined to wait and make sure, rather than make the same mistake that we did in the 60's, where we went to war over an incident that simply did not happen and 58,009 Americans didn't come back.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
He, of all the tards in command, should know better than that.
And if he knew, and did it anyways, then he's just as guilty as the rest of them.
No, the problem is that we invaded a country that was doing much to harm anyone after a president and his cronies, playing fear to the masses, falsely, and criminally created a reason for us to do it, just to do it. Now we've fucked it all up and, worst of all, think we can fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
The American foriegn policy post WW2 has directly put us where we are right now and made this shitty bed. Time to wake up and get out of bed.
I disagree, there's many good reasons to be in Iraq, humanitarian, greater good, freeing humanity ect ect and as an idealist i applaud them.
But really its not our damn job, we did't have the cash to spare, and we have gained nothing we didn't have before or could have accomplished with a smaller budget, a few good bribes or supporting the Kurdish uprisings when we had the chance (ty clinton). Iraq will be remembered as a multibillion dollar bay of pigs where arrogance, and poor planning sabotaged wasted countless lives, money and american credibility for something that ultimately wrecked our long term interest in security.
We knew how much it could cost going in, we knew the locals hated each other and would devolve into ethnic violence and we knew (and now confirmed) that AQ was not iraq until we got there. The only way this could get worse is if the suicide bombers wised up and started attacking inside America to get us to withdraw from Iraq faster.
Humanitarian?
We could have fixed that by removing the boycott on Iraq during the 90's.
Greater good?
Apart from not allowing Iran to claim parts of Iraq, protect Israel (who should do it for themselves) or stopping a civil war we created, I'm not sure what you mean.
Freeing humanity?
Coulda done that in the first Gulf War if we actually did what we said we were going to do when we encouraged the Shia uprisings of 1991. Unless you mean free them from a situation we directly created, in which case getting out is step One.
Idealisim is great, it's a good thing, but I prefer to be Realistic here. We aren't going to fix Iraq, it's beyond us, and throwing money and lives at it is a waste. Let's be honest. We don't really care about the average Iraqi, save for the fact that they happen to sit upon some Texas Tea. Our complete inactivity in Africa, where we actually could have repeatedly stopped or minimized genocide shows what really gets us motivated.
2nd part, I agree with. We had a shot to change the world for the better, and we pissed it away. It's a good thing Brokaw won't be around in 40 years, he'd likely write about "The Worst Generation".
Why was it worthwhile to go into Iraq? We finally brought Saddam Hussein to justice and saved the Kurds and Shiites from another genocide at his hands. We eliminated Hussein's Baathist government/military machine (which he used to slaughter his own people as well as his neighbors). Saddam's buddies in Syria would not have abandoned Lebanon and Libya would not have handed over all of it's WMD's had we not made an example of Saddam. We have discovered new oilfields and the Iraqis have begun developing them. Democratic elections have occurred and the foundation for a Federalist Iraqi Republic is in place. We've done massive damage to Al Qaeda and prevented them from establishing a Taliban-style government in place of Hussein's Baathist regime (which was already showing signs of collapse in 2003).
Going into Iraq was long overdue (we should have finished the job in 1991). You can argue that Bush has bungled things a great deal (and you'd be right to do so) but to say there was never any reason to go and that nothing good has come of it is just silly. We also can't just pick up and leave now; we'd be abandoning the people we promised to stand with just like we did in 1991. All the blood from the ensuing bloodbath would be on our hands.
We are not the world police. If there was a world police, it would ring along the lines of Nato or the U.N. And even if we were the world humanitarian relief system, shouldn't we then be in Africa instead of Iraq?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
We should ethnically split up the country and GTFO. Its naive, it will cause bloodshed, it will piss off countries, but its the inevitable result anyhow.
I always laugh at the humanitarian and 'getting rid of a dictator' arguments because they're paper thin. The United States isn't in the business of getting rid of dictators just on a lark. In fact, how many of them have propped up in the past and are propping up right now? If we're so concerned about the human rights of people in Asia or the Middle East, then why do we funnel money and weapons to regimes that blow their nose with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Just how much better are the Saudi's who sanction public beheadings and stoning of women to the Baathists? Yet we have our President holding hands with them. No, we don't get to make this kind of moralist arguments when we're engaging in such flagrant hypocrisy.
Yeah, it's not dictators that we have a problem with. It's dictators that don't cooperate with us that we get rid of.
He usually saved the genocide for when we sanctioned it. Like the first time when we provided the gas he used on the Kurds, and the second time when we called for the Shiites to rise up and then left them to die while we looked on unmoved and disinterested.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Which we installed, and then later helped Saddam become the head of.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Had nothing to do with it. Khadafi wanted normalized trade relations and we finally made him an offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
The Kurds fly their own flag and are not only pushing for autonomy, but independence. In the south, entire neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed and there has been no attempt by the federal government or the occupation forces for reintegration. The Mahdi Army and Sunni militias control the rest of the country in tiny fiefdoms with their own checkpoints which harass and kidnap westerners, and are never confronted by the Iraqi military. Their politicians regularly walk out of parliament if anything is proprosed that they don't like, turning the legistlative process into gridlock and essentially a joke. When we didn't like Iraqi PM al-Jaafari, we decided we wouldn't support him and he was replaced, completely exposing this so called 'democracy' for the puppet state sham it really was.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Not to mention the outrageous Iraqi refugee crisis in Jordan and other places where UN and ICRC are struggling to maintain while the US shrugs its shoulders and says "Who cares?" (to date, the US has only allowed 466 Iraqi refugees to enter the US, most of those applying to come here are translators and informants who put their lives on the line helping our forces, and now can't stay in Iraq for fear of retaliation against them and their families, some of which has already happened while we drag ass).
Al Qaeda, who were not in Iraq before, are there now. They were never going to be able to establish a Taliban-style government, because they did not have the support of the people for that. They were aligned with the Sunni resistance because they both wanted to strike at Americans, but now we've bought off (and armed) the Sunni militias and so they've switched alliegiances. That, along with another bought and paid for truce with al-Sadr (who I might add led his forces in attacks on Americans before, yet now we let act as a major power broker in the country), is the reason for the slump in violence. Not the surge. Again, this has been documented.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I'm sorry, but the rosy picture you're painting isn't there. The reporters on the ground who have talked to Iraqis say that the best thing we can do is get out, end the occupation, and let the UN come back in to do the job of peacekeeping and infrastructure building (not the current situation of mercenaries gunning down civilians and corrupt corporations scamming the taxpayer by building substandard structures with slave labor and charging the US government top dollar).
Incidentally, the deadline to register to vote in PA is today at 5 P.M.
Both Obama and Clinton have outlets around me, check your area if need be.
One difference I've noticed thus far is Clinton uses Robocallers and Obama has actual people making the calls.
Got one of those Clinton robocallers during her Ohio trip, what an ignorant bitch as 99% of my town is fiscal conservative and she was stressing raising taxes to promote more business in the area. She has NO FUCKING clue how it works. That's why she was boo'd heartily after the Ohio debate, but then again, so was Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
I thought Ohio-ins just booed outsiders automatically.
Usually we just boo ourselves, which is why that incident caught me off guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
You guys are like a landlocked island of Canada over there.
Minus the universal healthcare and adding about 20 pounds per woman, you're right.
However your education has skipped over the fact we have the 5th largest freshwater lake in the world.
It can't possibly matter.
Also, we mine 99% of the salt that is consumed in the us.
That and Nick Lackey (sp, Jessica's ex husband) are about all we have going for us.
Who and who?
Exactly
The intention was never any of those things. The intention was to find and disarm a potential nuclear and biological threat to the U.S., which turned out to be non existant.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Mostly (not all) was either a distant second of a reason to invade, or not mentioned till we realized how bad the lie was going to turn out to be. And to forget that and to spew forth ridiculous cheerleading, "ra-ra", rhetoric like it makes up for it, is complete and utter bullshit. This was a horrible idea, and it never should have been done.
If it was a humantarian mission (which it wasn't) I got news for you, Pre-U.S. Iraq is somewhere in the teens when it comes to misery factor. Darfur would be a nice place to start if you care about your fellow man enough to invade countries.
If it was supposed to be a cleverly disguised invasion strategy (which it wasn't) to put a western presence in the middle-east, it should have been sold as such, and support for it from other countries should have been fostered on a much greater scale than it wound up being.
If it was a "we can use Iraq as a shield so the terroists get distracted and forget to attack us here" situation (which it wasn't) than someone in that administration should have mentioned it to us. Yes I know what we "believed" and how many people "believed" it, the issue is, no one owned up to the motherfucker when it was all said and done. The spineless democrats, and the blame everyone but me Republicans dropped the motherfucking ball.
Truth is, shit doesn't get better by putting yourself into a state of denial, and considering 50% of this country still believes Saddam Hussain planned and executed the attacks on 9/11 I'd say we are still in a pretty massive state of denial.
50% is real high YAWA, most people in the country know who Bin Laden is, or who he is contrived to be.
Biff any percentage is completely unacceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
A good portion of our country could not identify Iraq on a map, I'll take what I can get.
Yes, unfortunately, it was those people in charge when we went to war in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
If we're so intent on ridding the world of dictators, then why did we allow one to retire after 50 years in power, just 90 miles off our own coast? The U.S. has never been intent on "bringing liberty" around the world just for liberty's sake. We only "liberate" a country that has something we want, which is why Fidel has lived a long and fruitful life and even transferred power to his own brother. To use this defense is laughable.
It's also the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. to wave the banner of spreading democracy when it has a half dozen territories of its own that it constantly ignores. The lie it fabricated at the UN in 1952 in regards to Puerto Rico alone is proof of this.
Oh shit, he played the Puerto Rico card.
It's true. When you live in a place that has no voting representation in the government that has complete and total control over it (the White House report a few years ago found that the US could sell or even give PR away if it so desired), it's nauseating to hear Bush and his tards talk about "spreading democracy." It's hypocritical and no one in the world believes it, which is a big reason why the US has no credibility overseas.
I agree that I don't see why Puerto Rico isn't a part of the united states other than who wants to have to make new flags.
Also that it's hypocritical and kinda stupid.
Let's ignore Thief's completely obtrusive rants and dig into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I agree 100%, we have dropped the ball with P.R. It should have been the 51st state 50 years ago. I mean we tax you, we control your economy, yet we also state that you are not part of our nation. I for one would like to offer my apologies for the actions of our asshole congress.
I say we shit or get off the pot, either ask you to be our 51st state or let your country become an independant nation, seperate from the US (Which sounds like a better choice right now imo) and stop paying us taxes.
but 50 is such a nice round number and looks good on paper
It's not just PR though. You have the US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, etc. Their status has never been finalized either. The USVI is an incorporated territory, which means the next step is statehood. When was the last time you heard anything about that?
Shit, poor Guam is one step behind PR in terms of status.
I doubt that PR would be better off on its own (would Rhode Island or Delaware?).
I used to not like the idea of PR as the 51st state, but I've been watching John Adams on HBO and I don't know why we wouldn't bring PR into the fold. I think it'd be a win for both sides.
Puerto Rico has repeatedly voted against statehood. I don't think most Puerto Ricans want English as their official language.
PR voted twice in favor of the Commonwealth, the first time because it truly favored it, and the second because it was well known that the plebiscite was non-binding and that nothing would come from it. 55% voted for "none of the above" in the 1998 plebiscite to specifically protest the lack of congressional commitment to the status process, and what was Congress's response? It ignored the results.
English is already one of the official languages here (Spanish being the other), so that's not a problem. The reason why Puerto Ricans don't speak it is because there's no obligation to. The U.S. stopped trying to force it on the populace more than 60 years ago, and there's never been a reason for people here to learn it. It's quite clear that that would change under statehood, and people will adapt to it if and when the time comes.
The U.S. has never offered statehood in 110 years of rule, and all efforts started in Congress have been killed.
Heh, Spo is funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Statehood was an option in all three referendums and never won. Both Republicans and Democrats favor statehood if PR ever votes in favor of it (it's kind of hard to give statehood to people that voted against it on three separate occasions).
It should be forced upon them, like the old days!
Yoshi: Looks like our very argument came up on my midterm. How lucky. Anyways, a simpler way of putting it is,
I lend a government $100 in a 30 year bond, and then it uses the money on me. 30 years later, I am asking the younger generation for the interest on that bond. In that way, I am taking money from the younger generation.
Of course, the balance ratio is still very important, but that shows the transferring of funds pretty nicely.
Puerto Rico is like a gimpy foriegn dude banging our daughter.
He speaks a funny language, we don't mind taking his money, but when he pipes up at the table and says how much he wants to be a real part of the family we give him a solid "Just shut up and pass the mashed potatoes, Paco.", then shake our heads and wonder what our daughter sees in the dude.
Didn't you read my post? The reason it didn't win the last two plebiscites is because everyone here knows that Congress wipes its ass with the results. That's why some are pushing for a constitutional assembly now. Congress either drags its feet or just blows the issue off. Considering that roughly 50% of the people here favor it and 98% favor union with the U.S., the problem isn't ours. See, even if 110% voted for statehood, Congress could just say no. That's because it's Congress that has complete and total dominion over what happens here.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Congress is the entity that has all authority over the status issue and has never made a major effort to resolve it in over a century. If a congressionally sponsored plebiscite offered the options of statehood and independence here, believe me, statehood would win overwhelmingly.
Free Puerto Rico!!!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/229/4...109951ea_o.jpg
That's because most U.S. Americans don't have maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
The first step is voting for statehood any way you can. If you don't vote for statehood you give Congress all the reason it needs to keep ignoring you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
1. I missed MVS.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
2. The best analogy of the situation.
Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
But the reason I made the Bay of Pigs analogy is because its that same kind of ruling arrogance that leads to these kind of invasions. Realism is lacking in America's foreign policy. At this point I feel that civil war is an inevitability and the longer we stay the bloodier and more protracted via two scenarios, on the assumption that the police/military of iraq is either partially or completely disloyal to itself and the gov't
1. When we leave, the strongmen, clerics and gov't leaders with militants trained by both us and Iran will devolve into african style anarchy where anyone with an army will attempt to establish realms or seize control of Iraq.
2. The army is partially loyal to the point where the gov't will be fighting against all sides in a civil war for control of the nation using Saddam era fear tactics coupled with US style military tactics to more effectively pacificy the nation over time while internal power struggles keep the government from any further reconstruction.
Both are bad, but not much better than whatever we gain, if anything by staying.
It was the fact that you think we have an official language that made me chuckle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Dude, Congress has never seriously addressed the issue in over a century. The last plebiscite here was a massive protest against that, and Congress ignored it. We could vote until the cows come home and it wouldn't matter. The U.S. is too busy bringing liberty and self-determination to a country halfway around the world that never asked for it, remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Okay guys, unless somebody can tie the status of PR's statehood to Obama or Hilary, let's sway this back on topic. That was fun though!
I distributed some rep to the key participants.
How about some Detroit goodness instead.
Detroit Mayor Indicted.
A timeline.
2001:
Kwame Kilpatrick, aged 31 defeats Gil Hill 54% to 46% to become Mayor of Detroit.
2002:
Critisized for using city funds to lease a car for private use. Some find it odd that the lease amount, $24,995, falls $5 short of the $25,000 or over amount that requires city council approval.
September
Kilpatrick begins an affair with his married chief of staff Christine Beatty.
Fall:
Manoogian Mansion party.
A party is held at the Mayor's Mansion (the city-owned Manoogian Mansion). There are strippers all over, but the party goes south when the Mayor's wife, Carlita Kilpatrick, comes home unexpectedly and slaps one of the strippers.
2003
March 28th:
Detroit cop Harold Nelthrope, a former Kilpatrick bodyguard, alleges to internal affairs that two bodyguards collected overtime pay they didn't earn and covered up wrecks in city cars.
April 25th:
Deputy Police Chief Gary Brown, who oversees internal affairs, says he learns about the allegations this day. Brown decides to investigate.
April 26th:
In second internal affairs interview, Nelthrope passes along a rumor about a wild party at the mayor's official residence, supposedly involving a stripper who was assaulted.
April 30th:
Tamara Greene, a high-priced stripper and prostitute, who claimed to be at the Manoogian party, is sitting in her car with her boyfriend. A white Chevrolet TrailBlazer drives by and someone shoots her 18 times. The boyfriend is only slightly wounded, even though the car turns around and drives back past Greene's car a second time. Police think it's a hit.
May 9th:
Kilpatrick fires Deputy Police Chief Gary Brown, head of police internal affairs, who was poised to investigate the Manoogian rumor and other allegations of wrongdoing by the mayor's inner circle.
May 13th:
Brown goes public, claiming he was fired for investigating the rumored party and mayor's security team. Hours later, Kilpatrick says the party never happened and defends bodyguards. He calls for independent review.
May 15th:
Kilpatrick holds a news conference outside the Manoogian to deny the party rumors. He insists, "It never happened, it never happened, it never happened, that he does not have 'lewd parties'; "I don't whore around on my wife"; and "I want people to understand that I would never disrespect my God, my wife or my children"."
May 19th:
Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox says he'll oversee outside investigation.
June 2nd:
Brown and Nelthrope sue Kilpatrick and the city, claiming retaliation for the internal affairs probe.
June 24th:
Cox declares the rumored party "an urban legend." He concludes that two bodyguards received excessive overtime, and says Kilpatrick chief of staff Christine Beatty's handling of Brown's dismissal was "arguably premature and heavy-handed" and may support a noncriminal lawsuit, but was not illegal. "The party has all the earmarks of an urban legend and should be treated as such." State Police say they will continue the investigation.
November 13th:
Former mayoral bodyguard Walt Harris sues, claiming Kilpatrick retaliated against him for supporting Nelthrope's allegations.
2004
Jan. 16:
State Police say they interviewed an additional 55 people and analyzed phone records and conclude the party never happened.
April 1st:
The Free Press reports that State Police accused Cox of undercutting their investigation by denying some of their requests for subpoenas and warrants and excluding them from his interview with the mayor.
April 21st:
Detroit Police Lt. Alvin Bowman sues Kilpatrick and top police officials, claiming he was transferred out of homicide to keep him from finding Greene's killer.
May 21st:
Depositions are unsealed that show Nelthrope and Harris accuse the mayor of affairs with Beatty and other women. Kilpatrick responds: "All of the allegations are completely false."
June 2nd:
Both sides reject mediation panel's recommendation that the city pay Brown $1.25 million and Nelthrope $1 million to settle the case.
June 21st:
Beatty, is pulled over for speeding by 2 police officers. She is not happy and, allegedly, says: "Do you know who the fuck I am?" when the officers came to the vehicle. While stopped, Beatty called Police Chief Bully-Cummings to have the officers called off, which the officers allege they were ordered to do. When reports of the incident started to surface in the media, Kilpatrick, Beatty and Bully-Cummings all claimed that the traffic stop was some type of "set-up" to harass Beatty.
The two officers subsequently file a lawsuit, the Beatty Slander Case, and seek $25,000 each.
August-September:
Judge Michael Callahan rules Kilpatrick must answer questions about alleged liaisons. Callahan approves subpoena by ex-cops' lawyer for text messages between the mayor and Beatty. Judge says he will review the messages to decide relevance.
Oct. 13th:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy asks Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings to turn over the department's files on the Greene case.
Oct. 21st:
A Wayne County jury awards Bowman $200,000 after determining his transfer from homicide was an "adverse employment action." A mediator had recommended that the city settle the case for $350,000. Bowman had asked the jury for $1.8 million.
2005
April 17th:
Time Magazine lists Kilpatrick as one of the three worst big-city mayors in the United States.
May:
Detroit Free Press reported that over the first 33 months of his term, Kilpatrick had charged over $210,000 on his city-issued credit card for travel, meals, and entertainment.
October:
Kilpatrick caused controversy with an advertisement which compared media criticism of him to lynch mobs.
http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/2005/10/28/lynchad.gif
November 8th:
Kilpatrick wins re-election 53% to 47% against Freman Hendrix, subsequently apologizes for first term mistakes.
November 7th:
Ernest Flagg, a former Detroit City Council candidate who fathered one of Greene's children, sues the city in federal court on the child's behalf, claiming police deliberately botched the investigation.
2006
January:
the Detroit News reports that, “… Kilpatrick used his special administrator authority to bypass the water board and City Council on three controversial contracts:
• A $131 million radio system that will be used mostly by Detroit police and fire departments.
• A $21.3 million security upgrade performed by a company tied to the mayor's friend, Bobby Ferguson.
• A $38,000 no-bid public relations contract awarded to Bob Berg, the spokesman for Kilpatrick's re-election campaign.
July
Kilpatrick was hospitalized and diagnosed with diverticulitis in Houston, Texas, in July 2006. Kilpatrick's personal physician indicated that Kilpatrick's condition may have been caused by a high-protein weight-loss diet.
Detroit's city council voted unanimously to approve Kilpatrick’s tax plan, which he said he hopes will provide homeowners some relief from the city’s high property tax rates. The cuts ranged from 18% to 35%, depending on the property’s value
2007
May 8th:
WXYZ reported that Kilpatrick used $8,600 from his secret Kilpatrick Civic Fund to take his wife, three sons and babysitter on a week long vacation to a five-star California resort, the La Costa Resort and Spa. The fund, controlled by Kilpatrick's sister and friends, was created to improve the city of Detroit through voter education, economic empowerment and crime prevention
August 20th:
Brown-Nelthrope trial begins.
August 28th:
Beatty testifies she did not have sexual relationship with Kilpatrick and denies Brown was fired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt0mL...eature=related
August 29th:
Kilpatrick testifies he did not have sexual relationship with Beatty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y-TVSSlKgQ
Kilpatrick denies Brown was fired. Stefani asks Callahan if the text messages he previously requested would be relevant to show the jury. The judge responds he never received the messages and authorizes second effort to obtain them. Trial ends with no further mention of messages.
September 11th:
Jury awards Brown $3.6 million and Nelthrope $2.9 million. Kilpatrick vows appeal.
October 17th:
Kilpatrick agrees to settle three ex-cops' suits for $8.4 million plus legal costs.
Some find it odd why the case is settled for $8.4 million, when the jury awards $6.5 million.
October 18th:
Kilpatrick releases statement: "I've listened to pastors, business leaders and so many Detroiters who genuinely love and care about me and this city. I've humbly concluded that a settlement ... is the correct decision for my family and the entire Detroit community."
November 11th:
The Detroit Free Press, curious about the 8.4 million dollar settlement requests all settlement documents under open records law. Paper later sues, saying city hasn't delivered. Case pending
December 18th:
Greene's family files a $150,000,000 lawsuit against the city alleging that her murder was deliberately done to prevent her from talking to police about the Manoogian party.
2008
January:
The Detroit Free Press examined and revealed the existence of more than 14,000 text messages exchanged between Kilpatrick and his chief of staff Christine Beatty on their city issued SkyTel pagers between September–October 2002 and April–May 2003.
Hereafter referred to as the Text Message Scandal, the exchanges also show their knowledge of 'fronts' in the bidding process and preferential treatment to close friend and businessman Bobby Ferguson. Text messages exchanged between Beatty and Ferguson show Ferguson requested and was given access to other contractors' bids, proposals and rates in order to undercut them, and ultimately secured over $45 million in city contracts. This preferential treatment in the Kilpatrick administration has come to be known as the 'Friends and Family Plan.
One particular Text:
Beatty: "And, did you miss me, sexually?"
Kilpatrick: "Hell yeah! You couldn't tell. I want some more."
January 24th:
Detroit Citizens sound off about the Mayors Affair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJDdP...eature=related
January 30th:
Kilpatrick responds to the Text Affair Scandal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9tK...eature=related
February 6th:
Lawyers are hired to defend the city in the Greene case for a retainer of $24,950. Once again, under the $25,000 where city council approval is needed.
February 7th:
The Detroit Free Press finds out the discrepency of the $8.4 million dollar settlement, a confidentially agreement for all parties to keep the text messages hidden.
The secret deal called for Brown to forfeit $3 million, Nelthrope to forfeit $2 million and Harris to give up $400,000 if they ever revealed the information; Stefani would forfeit $2.6 million in legal fees if he or any of his employees ever divulged the existence of the text-messages.
The released documents did not include transcripts of the text-messages.
February 19th:
The Detroit City Council voted unanimously to settle the Beatty Slander lawsuit for $25,000. The attorney for the officers accepted the settlement and said of the officers, “They don’t want to be embroiled in this whole scandal.
February 28th:
A defiant Kilpatrick says that he will not resign.
"This is what I was born to do," the mayor said after visiting a group of senior citizens during his first public appearance since the release of secret documents related to three police whistle-blower cases that cost $8.4 million.
When asked about personally paying back the $8.4 million, he says
"I pay it back every day, when I go out and do an economic stimulus package for hundreds of millions of dollars. When I go find a way to do a deal on the (Detroit-Windsor) tunnel for $75 million dollars. … I work every day to make sure the city gets what it's owed.
February 29th:
Bowman signs an affidavit claiming that a police officer killed Greene and that several police officials, including but not limited to police chief Jerry Oliver and his successor, Ella Bully-Cummings, helped to derail his investigation.
March 6th:
The Wayne County Election Committee approved a recall petition to remove Kilpatrick as mayor based on the multi-million dollar settlement in a whistle-blower lawsuit against the city, and the accusation that Kilpatrick misled the City Council into approving the settlement. The recall petition was filed by Douglas Johnson, a city council candidate.
March 11:
Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick delivered his seventh State of the City Address to Detroit. The majority of the 70-minute speech focused on positive changes occurring throughout Detroit and future plans.
However, at the end of the speech, things get interesting, when he deviates from his script.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3WBeXBjjZA
“In the past 30 days I've been called a nigger more than anytime in my entire life. In the past three days I've received more death threats than I have in my entire administration. I've heard these words before but I've never heard people say them about my wife and children. I have to say this because it's very personal to me. I don't believe that a Nielsen rating is worth the life of my children or your children. This unethical, illegal lynch mob mentality has to stop. And it's seriously time. We've never been here before. And I don't care if they cut the TV off. We've never been in a situation like this before. Where you can say anything, do anything, have no facts, no research, no nothing and you can launch a hate-driven bigoted assault on a family. I humbly ask members of council, I humbly ask the business community, I humbly ask the religious community, I humbly ask the brothers and sisters of the city of Detroit - I humbly ask that we say 'no more' together. I humbly ask that we say no more together. I love this city with every part of my being. I will continue to stay focused on building the next Detroit. God Bless you, Detroit. I love you."
Comments from other Democrats include:
"I thought his statements were race-baiting on par with David Duke and George Wallace, all to save his political career.
Michigan Governor, Jennifer Granholm
"It's an act of desperation to use the N-word," said Riddle. "He's attempting to regain his base of support by playing the race card. He's gone to that well one too many times."
Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox
March 12th:
Citing the fact that Douglas Johnson doesn't actually live in Detroit itself, the Recall Campaign is put to a stop. Johnson says the recall will go ahead with a resident at a later date.
March 18th:
The Detroit City Council passed a non-binding resolution asking for Kilpatrick to resign as mayor. The vote was 7-1 with Monica Conyers being the only member to vote no. Martha Reeves was absent from the vote. The resolution cited 33 reasons for Kilpatrick to step down as mayor;
March 24th:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced a 12-count criminal indictment against Kilpatrick and former Detroit Chief of Staff Christine Beatty, charging Kilpatrick with eight felonies and Beatty with seven. Charges for both included perjury, misconduct in office and obstruction of justice. Worthy also suggested that others in the Kilpatrick administration could also be charged.
Charges Filed Against Kilpatrick
Count 1: Conspiracy to obstruct justice (5-year maximum sentence)
Count 2: Obstruction of justice. Accused of firing Detroit Deputy Police Chief Gary Brown as part of an effort to illegally hamper a criminal investigation and committing perjury to hide the firing of Brown or a relationship between the mayor and Beatty. (5-year maximum sentence)
Count 3: Misconduct in office. Accused of firing Brown to hamper a criminal probe of Kilpatrick's personal conduct or the conduct of his security unit and committing perjury to hide the firing. (5-year maximum sentence)
Count 4: Misconduct in office. He's accused of authorizing the city to settle a whistle-blowers' lawsuit with the motive of preventing the release of text messages showing the mayor and his aide lied under oath. (5-year maximum sentence)
Count 5: Perjury in court. Accused of lying under oath in August 2007 by saying he did not fire Brown, did not know Brown was investigating him or a rumored party at the mayor's official residence and testifying falsely as to other circumstances surrounding the termination of Brown. (15-year maximum sentence)
Count 6: Perjury in court. Accused of falsely testifying in August 2007 that he didn't have a romantic or sexual relationship with Beatty. (15-year maximum sentence)
Count 7: Perjury outside of court. Accused of swearing falsely before a notary public in June 2003 as to the circumstances surrounding the "un-appointment" of Brown. (15-year maximum sentence)
Count 8: Perjury outside court. Accused of swearing falsely before a notary public in October 2004 as to the circumstances surrounding the "un-appointment" of Brown. (15-year maximum sentence)
I watched this on TV, what a fucking asshole. Lies to the jury with that horse faced aide of his. They both better get time for this.
Yeah, race card am fail here.
That guy looks like a thug. I mean detroit sucks dick and it is really run by the greeks. But that guy looks like the "boss" on any straight to DVD Steven Segal video.
Suge Knight-ish, even. Hell, he makes Suge look like a decent dude.
What's the over/under on his wife leaving him within 30 days of conviction?
He does look Suge'ish. Excellent call.
I bet if we watched the video again, some dude that looks a lot like Tupac will be his personal aide.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but Eminem's body guard here looked like he was going to beat his wife to death if she didn't hold his hand on his "apology" video.
Beatty is up for:
Count 1: Conspiracy to obstruct justice, up to five years.
Count 2: Obstruction of justice, up to five years. She's accused of firing Brown to hamper a criminal investigation and committing perjury to hide the firing of Brown or a relationship between Beatty and the mayor.
Count 3: Misconduct in office, up to five years. She's accused of firing Brown to hamper a criminal probe of Kilpatrick's personal conduct or the conduct of his security unit and committing perjury to hide the firing.
Count 4: Perjury in court, up to 15 years. She's accused of lying under oath in August 2007 by saying Brown wasn't fired, she didn't know Brown was investigating the mayor or a rumored party at the mayor's official residence and testifying falsely as to other circumstances surrounding the termination of Brown.
Count 5: Perjury in court, up to 15 years. She's accused of lying under oath in August 2007 that she didn't have a romantic or sexual relationship with the mayor and that she didn't use her communication device to send or receive messages of a sexual nature to the mayor.
Count 6: Perjury outside court, up to 15 years. She's accused of swearing falsely before a notary public in December 2003 that she didn't know Brown was investigating the rumored party. She also is accused of swearing falsely as to the circumstances surrounding Brown's termination.
Count 7: Perjury outside court, up to 15 years. She's accused of swearing falsely before a notary public in December 2003 that she wasn't aware of the mayor's "philandering."
Awesome, he's the fucking Pele of Shitty Town mayors, he and boss tweed are soon to be together in big boss heaven with Marcelleus Wallace and that asshole Mr. Big from sex in the city.
Avoidance of a beat-down might be a valid reason for her to sit there, I'll give you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
What ever happened to the days when affairs went like this:
Dude: I had an affair.
Chick: Once, or more than once.
Dude: More than once.
Chick: Fuck off.
See, if Detroit really had RoboCop, this wouldn't happen.
Reason A is the best bet, but as for number 2 let me just say the finer portion of our species learned to fuck judges to get your money X 3 if you're a multiple offender.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
Jesus Christ this guy is like John Street, mayor of Philadelphia.
Please, this is in a whole other leage. Camden's had some stuff like this, but John Street was run of the mill, never went to trial stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I know that we unfortunately do not have English as our official language. Some people in Puerto Rico are worried that we could declare it as our official language at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Unfortunately? Are their lives hanging in the balance? No, just the delicate sensibilities of racists like the so-called Minutemen and Lou Dobbs.
There's nothing racist about wanting English as the official language. It's a matter of practicality and efficiency. We should all be able to communicate fluently with each other.
Yeah I am pro-English national language as well.
I agree it's not racist, but it is generally obnoxious. Policing culture is almost always a losing war. It's gay when they do it in Quebec, and I'd rather not start it here. What would really change?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I love how people always say "I don't like having to press 1 for English" or something, like that actually affects anyone's life.
I can speak to 0 of my neighborhood people. Not a single one of them. People were over here, they can testify, its Mexico city. Some are nice, some are total assholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
This is a double question though. You don't police culture, but you do police immigration. Speaking English is supposed to be a pre-req to getting in, when this starts to break down, you create an annoying gradual language barrier.
Have you ever met an adult born in this country that does not speak English fluently? All those kids those Mexicans are having will speak English. Just like the second generation Italians, Chinese, and everyone else.
I'm sorry that the places flooded with new immigrants have a lot of spanish going on. I live in one of those town. But seriously, the extent to which this is a relevant issue is greatly exagerrated.
People will speak what they want to speak regardless of what you tell them. No one has a rule that you need to speak anything to enter a county. What country has that concept of an "official language?"
Spo, you really have to stop treating the guy who lives there like you know more about this particular subject than him. Its embarrassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
As far as English speaking being enforced goes, I am because we should be no different than the rest of the world.
If I move to France or Spain, its not like they will be learning English to appease me.
IIRC, France, Japan, Korea, Germany, China at the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Canada has 2....3 if you count Tim Hortons.
Everywhere I've been in Europe most everyone can speak English, it's pretty odd. According to my french raised girlfriend, English lessons are a norm at least in France.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
Those trees can go to hell period, with or without 1 for english.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
LOL. CBS leaps off the top rope with a hatchet.
LOL Sinbad
LOL THE AIDES TRYING TO COVER THAT.
Wow that was great.
The news should be like that more often. Just straight "That. That thing right there that you just said? Yeah that's not true, and here's a video to make you look stupid."
There are fewer people here worried about that happening as there are in any of the 27 states that have English as their official language. Many of those states are places where I can't imagine there being a large ethnic community (Wyoming, Idaho, North & South Dakota?), but it's pretty LOL that Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, and California even have it. The laws in those states have done wonders to make everyone up and speak English there haven't they? You can't tell people what they can and can't speak. It doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I understand that English is the de facto language of the U.S. (all three branches of the federal government operate in it), and people should learn it when they go there, just like one should learn French in France, Italian in Italy, etc. It's when you try to make it law that things get problematic.
Exactly, just like immigrants of the past two hundred years from Germany, Italy, China, and everywhere else have learned English when they've come to the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
It's amazing how behind the U.S. is on this issue compared to rest of the world. Many countries treat English as an automatic second language, making students take years of it, while American schools give something like, what, two semesters? The U.S. needs to put more emphasis on this issue, both in regards to immigrants learning English and Americans learning a second language. But hey, soon it might not have a choice. In about 30 years you're all going to be speaking Spanish anyway. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr-K
She's a Cunt.
What do you guys honestly expect from her?
I never said the policy is racist, it's just stupid, only that some of its main advocates ARE racists. Also, practicality and efficiency? Give me a break. It would change nothing. It's entirely window-dressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
The Daily Show is like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-K
Too bad no one watches it.
Of course I don't know more about the subject than Melf, I just disagree with him on the futility of voting for statehood. I think a lot of people that would champion the cause see three votes against statehood and write off the issue. I want Melf in America ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
Jesus, her and Kerry man......Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
I love the spin coming out of the Clinton camp. If it really were true that Bill sent his wife to the hellholes too dangerous to go to himself I would have liked him more.
Too bad we need a satire show to do what the damn news ought to be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
I like how CBS is doing what other people on YOUTUBE and The Daily Show have been doing for years. LOL.
Time for SNL to do another skit about how the media hates Hillary.
Old people who vote watch CBS, not YouTube, SNL or The Daily Show, so it's important that it finally got there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Ugh, I'd rather see them bring back jeopardy.
I'd rather see them bring Black Jeopardy.