Printable View
So long as people are being sent to Iraq, it's going to be hard to convince them to stay in long enough to get those benefits.
The military ups the enlistment age max to 42 and accepts just about anyone, but it gets really picky when it's time to give something back. Nice.
The War in Iraq is certainly taking its toll, but retention has been surprisingly well given the circumstances. Nonetheless, the next president is going to need to do more about the staffing in order to release the tension on an overextended military.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I mean, we're drawing down our forces at a time that we're engaged in a two-front war that isn't exactly going so well. Brilliant.
I do think people that serve longer should get bigger benefits but everyone that serves should get really generous benefits.
Exactly. That's a big reason, I think, why public opinion is so against the war. You can't stand before the cameras and talk about how it's "us against them" and "the future of the world hangs in the balance" and then cut taxes, drawn down forces, and basically make no wartime demands of the public. It gives the impression that the war isn't as do-or-die as they make it out to be. Given the fact that Bush did everything he could to start it, lied through his teeth when he said it was over, and the colossal fuck up that it's been since the "end of military operations," I can't agree with him on its importance.Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
I agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Didn't the Democratic party hae a black nominee before or did he run independently?
McCain next president, official.
Hi, Yoshi!
About time Hillary was officially out.
We're doomed.
Should I start posting all the biff quotes about how Obama will never win and Hillary will use here superdelegates and devil magic to win?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HaQuote:
McCain's Age: Is It a Fair Issue?
why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Gozen would, if it was Yoshi.
I believe the part about devil magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
So this will be the third time I vote in a presidential election, and it will be the third time that I'm less than excited about casting my ballot. Thrilling.
I'm really excited about Obama. I've been sick of the fucking squabbles with Hillary, but looking forward to the main event. Obama and Hillary's policies were never that different so the nature of the fight was bickering over inconsequential nonsesnse. Now we can have a debate of substance at last.
If nothing else he's a candidate that inspires people, and not just out of fear of the alternatives. He's got people fired up with a sense of actual positivity, and that's exactly what America needs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
lulzQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I voted for him in Sunday's primary here, so I'm glad to have added my grain of sand. I just wish I could vote for him in the general election.
http://www.statesurge.com/members/923Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Tommy Tallarico
What am I looking at here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
He can sponsor all the bills he wants, but the platform he is running for election on is vague.
Uriel Synthesis
Substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Tommy Tallarico
Looks like alot of vegetables and not enough meat and potatos.
I guess Barry pulled it off. I'll have to say a prayer for him this Sunday at Trinity.
I'm talking about his campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
Uriel Synthesis
Yeah, 95% of that is from February 2007 and on. When he was campaigning.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
You're not interested in actually finding substance as much as you would rather just giggle at how well-spoken he is and assume he has nothing behind it. I don't like the fucking guy and it's obvious to me he has plans.
Tommy Tallarico
que?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
My problem with him is that the vast majority of people's exposure to him is him just throwing the word "change" around with no specifics at all and people swoon for him because of it. It doesn't really have anything to do with his policy views at all. He gets a pat on the back while avoiding any verbal commitment and it just reminds how ridiculously stupid a lot of people are.
So your problem with him is that people are idiots and don't bother to research the candidates?
How exactly is that Obama's fault?
Exactly like I said. I gave you some reading. It's okay if you're too distracted by the giant Gotham bold CHANGE banner to look through it instead of judging him by your inaccurate generalizations of his supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Tommy Tallarico
What has McCain delivered of substance that Obama has not? What issues has he taken a stand on that Obama won't?Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Obama doesn't go "me me me me me" in his speeches all day and somehow people think he's not saying anything, but he's just not being a cunt. There's a difference.You have never watched an Obama speech. FACT. You might have to go past the daily show clip reel and the 30 second TV spot but his message is loud and fucking clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
I am judging specifically what he says, not what he thinks. I am judging people for being impressed by someone who, judging by the content of his sales pitch, doesn't seem to respect their intelligence. I actually made a point of saying that already, but just keep ignoring that and pointing at his voting record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
Its not his fault per se, but he stands as a reminder of it, and its a lot easier to blame him.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobb
He blamed Ron Paul for Hitler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Obama can't compete with that.
LOL! You're going to have to give some quotes to support that.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Tommy Tallarico
Or did he blame Hitler for Ron Paul?
It's not the jews fault that the holocaust happened, but they stand as a reminder of it, and it's a lot easier to blame them.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
If they'd just believe in Jesus...
You're doing it wrong. ANALOGIESQuote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
No, you're judging a TV commercial. Or just parroting a conservative talking point without even that much though. The latter is more likely, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
I don't really see obama commercials. What I do see is his public appearances. But I get it, you like Obama. I hope if he gets elected that you are right about him.
BTW I don't "parrot" anything, especially conservative talking points.
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Well that must be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
It pointless to argue with TNL Obama's support team. They wont state the facts, they will just point at the opposition, and claim Obama will magically fix everything.
Welcome to politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
Tommy Tallarico
No one said he was going to fix everything. He won't. However, he does at least have a few ideas to attempt to adress things, rather than digging the hole we're in and seeing if we can make it to china in 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
Our only alternative is literally a guy who wants to continue to fucking bury us in debt and continue the same economic policies that have been sending us in a downward spiral. There is no choice but Obama.
And he's a good choice. His healthcare plan isn't perfect, but it's going to make things better, middle class tax cuts are going to help the economy, and ending the war will sure as shit make a huge difference. Is that the end of our woes? No. But it's something.
Shit, welcome to the entire Obama fanbase. Shit like that convinces me that we're doomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
You're accusing Uriel of basing his opinion on 30 second Obama clips only to parrot Obama's talking points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
McCain's healthcare plan would improve our health care system and McCain's not trotting out the timeless and useless "tax the rich" pitch (which inevitably leads to taxing the middle class when the rich hide their money). Do you honestly believe Obama's going to end the war in Iraq? He's been the nominee for three hours and he's already started hedging on his early promises to get us out of Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Every time I hear people talk about politics it just makes me depressed. Is that politics today or just a part of growing up? I can't be sure. :(
Okay, here's the next ten years as I see it.
Things in the Middle East will reach a boiling point, forcing the US and the EU to intervene both for their own safety and Israel's.
Russia, who is as we speak moving aggressively towards a global confrontation both militarily and diplomatically, seemingly under the nose of the western media and public, will come in on the side of Iran and face down our coalition. China and North Korea will remain predictably neutral.
The EU, having already created a unified currency to topple the dollar, and as of 2008 already having a stronger and more advanced military than the US, will emerge from this conflict as the undisputed #1 superpower in the world.
Hardee's/Carl's Jr. will launch the Burger Burger, which is a burger topped with an actual whole other burger. The trumpets will sound, dragons will descend from the Heavens, and Armaggedon will begin.
Billy Carter '08.
Oh right, Bush is the first president that ever figured out taxes, I forgot. Before cutting his losses on upper class taxes that never materialized becuase they can afford invisible money, the country just had no income and never had a balanced budget. Yes, Obama is a naive dreamer for thinking he could ever undo what Bush did.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
In a day? Of course not. But he has a plan for phased deployment and he will pull us out.Quote:
Do you honestly believe Obama's going to end the war in Iraq?
IBTN, I can't wait until America actually researches his past and he gets drilled in the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
"It was fixed"
"Recount at all polls"
etc, etc
Might as well break out the banner for the election though
"Obama '08, at least he ain't Bush"
or
"Obama '08, see Europe we are progressive!"
I'm not sure which one Frog wants to put on his car more.
You're not even trying anymore. :rolleyes:
Looking forward to you being wrong again, though. Seems a sure bet in this thread.
"Which thread to click on... which thread to click on... ah! Politics!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto Wanderer
Funny, I was watching Obama speak in Minnesota last night, about 3 hours after he won the nomination, and a good deal of his speech was dedicated to why he wants to get us out of Iraq. What were you watching?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Not my words, but some good points in there:
"The fact that the current occupant may not be the sharpest tool in the shed does not mean that Obama is any better.
Pelosi will do everything she can to undermine our troops, period.
Instead of giving them the credit they are due for a job well done, she will spin it every which way she can.
I voted for Clinton and voted for Bush. Unlike many in this country, I do not suffer from Bush derangement syndrome, and by and large I think he has done a decent job. Not perfect, and I disagree with more than one of his policies, but we will have disagreement on the necessity to go into Iraq in particular and to stop Islamofascism. Again, I am coming from a much different life experience than you and a different understanding of the region, so there lies the difference.
I guess to Obama I am just a redneck clinging to my guns and bible. Well, when faced with the prospect of Islamofascism or his "black liberation theology", you better believe I am glad I live in a country in which I can cling to my gun and bible.
Obama is an unknown quantity because the leftist media has done its best to hide and spin everything about him.
OK, so he stands for "hope" and "change". What change exactly? The same change in ethics conduct Pelosi brought to the house? How is he going to change the economy (and never mind that the power of the president to affect the economy is rather insignificant). I am not willing to gamble the future of this country on someone who is a racist anti-semite who is surrounded by racist anti-semites, especially when his record does not show anything of significance to warrant the position. Exactly how is he going to be this great "uniter"? When is the last time he showed any bipartisanship? He has been in the Senate, what, a whole 2 years, and spent the last one campaigning? Were it not for George Soros's money, he would be nonexistent. Sure, he mobilized the "grass roots" - he better have, since that is what he was before he started running for office - a community organizer.
Sorry, every time he opens his mouth in an unscripted fashion he displays that he is an idiot, and then has his spinmeisters run around to cover his ass.
I have no problem with having a Democrat as a president. As a matter of fact, I am of the opinion that control of the country's reigns is best when it shifts between parties. I guess it is the only thing that will at least keep them halfway honest. But I do not want the most important position in the world to go to someone who is inexperienced and has no proven record in anything. I have a problem with someone who sat in a church whose teachings, had it been directed at blacks instead of whites, would be equivalent to the KKK. I have a problem with someone who found it politically expeditious to "disassociate" himself from this church, but did not do so due to an incompatibility with his beliefs and with condemnation, but rather because "he does not want what is said there to rub on him and because he does not want the level of scrutiny of a presidential campaign to be applied to it".
Bottom line - he still aspires to those same racist preachings he has heard for most of his adult life. His issue is not with what is being said there but rather with the unfair scrutiny which his racist masters may be subjected to.. He is a good orator and a nice story teller - so much so that he will take many libertioes with the truth to make
a wider point.
He is as far to the left as you will find, and I don't work my tail off day in and day out to have some marxist in sheeps clothing start his redistribution of wealth to bankroll his lazy constituency. I immigrated to the land of opportunity for that reason. If I wanted cradle to grave, I could have gone to some socialist republic."
Whaaaat a bunch of shit.
Silliness.
:p
That post was filled with so much bullshit it could clog up the internet tubes.
Seriously there isn't a single good point in there.
FixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Thief Silver
We can't deny bush is an idiot, but I can still say I'd rather have him than Kerry.
That's the problem. No-body actually wanted Kerry for Kerry. They just wanted him not to be Bush.
Hard to get elected on that platform.
An electable, or rather, electable-on-his-own-merits candidate would have fucking walked with the last election.
Didn't quite work out like that, though. :lol:
Agree, Obama could have come on stage and pissed on the flag and still have been elected in 04.
Wesley Clark should have been the nomination in '04, IMO. I'm not totally clear on how it came to pass that Kerry got the party nod.
Say what you will about the Democratic party, but that writing was a crock. Republicans would do well to distance themselves from whatever nut case those ramblings came from. It makes everyone linked with it look extremely petty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I do have some concern regarding Obama and his experience in bringing about true change, but I look at what McCain is doing and he's not really shaking things up enough to peak my interest. When it comes down to it I think I like McCain better than Obama, but not McCain in the last 2 months.
Personally, I'm still waiting for the Donut Ham Hamburger, myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
Just because there are only two candidates left doesn't mean there is someone worth voting for. Nothing has changed from a year ago; we just have less unelectable assholes than before.
Because he declared too late and then looked like a soldier instead of a politician during debates? He treated his opponents like people instead of acting like a politician and slinging bullshit? I think thats what happened anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
I'm a glutton for punishment? :sweat:Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
You, sir, want a Luther Burger w/ ham.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoyd
You know what'd go really good on that? A ham sandwich!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto Wanderer
That was Kerry's slogan. Obama's got a lot of people genuinely excited for his candidacy, and that's really encouraging to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Got lazy and stopped reading after this. You aren't dumb enough to believe a bunch of bullshit implying a race war, praising the Bush presidency and spouting retarded talking points from conservative radio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
Is there a GameFAQs for politics I can tell you to go to? You're basically the political equivalent of telling me Gaystation 3 sucks and I'm a Wiitard.
Reddit?
edit: Reddit.
The comments section alone put the retards at GameFaqs to shame.
No, I am not dumb to take the ramblings deep to heart. I do like to rattle the support team here though :)
As for that post, there are about 95% angry man post, and about 5% actual idea. So far what I've seen of him, his former actions, and lack of such, makes me wary of his candidacy. Him staying in his church, and only dumping them as the controversy hit, (thats where the anti-semitic ramblings of the poster came from, being a jew and afraid for the future of the country). I hope to see fleshed out economic plan, because the words change and raising taxes, in the times of hardship for middle class is not the best policy.
I am against the war, don't get me wrong. It has to end, it does affect the country in million wrong ways, but it cant just end in a day or a month. 1-2 years sounds like a good timing
I can wish Obama luck in his quest, but I will remain quite cautious.
And 100% redneck idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
Obama isn't saying he'll do it in a month. But McCain is saying at least 4 years and upwards of 100. Not going to fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair
Nixon was adamant about getting us out of Vietnam, and it still took him nearly four years. These things don't just happen overnight. (Not without a lot of unnecessary bloodshed, at least.)
If Obama can begin to scale things back and get the Iraqis to take a larger role in their own defense and security, the public won't mind if it takes four years. I sincerely doubt that McCain will have us out by the end of his term or even begin scaling things back.
Obama's going to be at my high school tomorrow.
Can not handle spin machine, system overload........Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Good idea frog, let's just retreat....
If whoever wins, can take that exact plan of action, things might work out. Just running out of Iraq mess would just make matters worse, and pretty much make everything that was done there so far worth nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Retreat from what? What are the objectives, now? I seriously haven't any idea what, if any, the goals of America are in staying with Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
The "tax cuts for the rich" myth is nonsense. Tax cuts for everyone, including the rich, isn't "tax cuts for the rich". Bush's fuckup wasn't the tax cuts, it was bloating the federal budget to an unprecedented and unsustainable level. The solution is slashing the fat out of the budget (and there's a lot of it), not futile attempts at overtaxing the rich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
He promised he'd have us out in what, 9 months with no permanent bases? Just last night he was calling on his supporters not to ignore the gains we've made in Iraq. He's slowly dipping into the Iraq issue now that he's not trying to appeal solely to the left. I'll bet anybody here $100 that if Obama gets elected we'll still have troops and bases in Iraq at the end of his Presidency (be it four or eight years). We're doing well in Iraq right now and the worst (Bush's early blunders) is over; whoever the next President is will own the Iraq issue. Obama's not a stupid man, he knows if we withdraw now we'll just have to go back in later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
As far as I'm concerned we already "won" it was just a stupid war with no long term plan to begin with, and winning it wasn't all it's cracked up to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
So yeah, the Iraqi people need to figure out what they want to do with their new freedom. Probably kill each other or some shit. Not my problem.So Bush's tax cuts weren't disproportionately biased toward the wealthy? Don't play dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
http://img.slate.com/media/19/041014_taxcut1.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
http://img.slate.com/media/15/041014_taxcut2.gif
No, they weren't disproportionately biased toward the wealthy (unless you don't think the wealthy should get any tax cuts at all). "Tax cuts for the rich" was a silly political slogan that got repeated until everyone bought into it. Instead of hammering Bush for the tax cuts you should hammer him for recklessly bloating the budget.
I agree with SpoDaddy here. The rich should not be the scape goat a country uses to bail itself out of a hole -- that is poor strategizing (unless I'm missing your point entirely here, Frog, which is not unthinkable with my post skimming).
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. The Bush administration has built large, permanent bases on Iraq soil during the occupation of the country. So of course there will be US troops in Iraq at the end of his term. And the end of the next guys term, too (even if Obama's runs for 8) How many and what their overall goals will be is what is of value to this discussion.Quote:
He promised he'd have us out in what, 9 months with no permanent bases? Just last night he was calling on his supporters not to ignore the gains we've made in Iraq. He's slowly dipping into the Iraq issue now that he's not trying to appeal solely to the left. I'll bet anybody here $100 that if Obama gets elected we'll still have troops and bases in Iraq at the end of his Presidency (be it four or eight years). We're doing well in Iraq right now and the worst (Bush's early blunders) is over; whoever the next President is will own the Iraq issue. Obama's not a stupid man, he knows if we withdraw now we'll just have to go back in later.
Obama originally promised that he'd have us out in something like nine months with no permanent bases. When he leaves office, even if that's in 2017, we'll still have bases and troops there. He made a bunch of empty promises about Iraq to curry the Moveon.org vote in the primaries. Now that the general election is underway his message is going to shift from "Out of Iraq now!!!!" to "We'll leave Iraq as quickly as we possibly can after accomplishing our goals". Anybody that thinks Obama is a genuine antiwar candidate should get ready for a broken heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
So he adjusted his message to be more central for the general election? How dare he! I'm sure no other candidate has ever done that before, though I can still hear pings of "compassionate conservatism" in the air.
It doesn't matter if he says it will take a few years now. If he can paint himself as the candidate who wants out and McCain as the one who doesn't, he'll win the issue. Iraqis are as sick of us there as we are, and he's going to jump all over that for the campaign. Democrats are obviously more eager for us to pull out than Republicans, so he was going to appease them to get the nod. Now that that's done, he has to move more to the center to attract independent and right-leaning voters.
That's a hell of a lot more than a "message adjustment". He's essentially moving towards the exact same Iraq policy as McCain, "get out as quickly as possible while completing our objectives, leaving behind bases to protect U.S. interests". His original message was "Iraq is a worthless losing endeavor and I'll yank us out of there immediately and entirely with no permanent bases". Compassionate conservatism is a retarded political slogan and proof that Bush has no clue what conservatism actually is. Conservatives want to limit the power of government, not expand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Wah, rich people suck.
The Wall Street Journal reveals a major stumbling block for a Clinton VP spot.
Holy crap @ Despair.
I'm finding it quite amusing that people who were screaming "FLIP-FLOPPER!" 4 years ago are backing McCain now. I've lost count of the number of times he's done his "Watch out, I'm a MAVERICK!" dog-and-pony show only to end up falling right in line with the administration when it actually came time to vote.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
The EU will never become the superpower of the world. Ever.
They can't do so economically and so will not be able to do so politically or militarily as a result. A single monetary policy across such a huge economic area will never work out in the long run. (Read: Black Wednesday and the ERM.)
Countries like Spain are in the fucking shitter right now and there's much less they can do than if they weren't a part of the EU due to loss of monetary policy and the EU rightfully so must refuse to act for the benefit of other Eurozone countries.
The Eurozone is far from an optimal currency area whereas the US is.
her vagina?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowdisease
There are several reasons Obama won't choose Hillary, the biggest being his wife's utter hatred of her. He'll pay off her $20 million campaign debt in exchange for her "support". She'll crisscross the country giving him backhanded compliments in an attempt to undermine his candidacy so she can run in 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Damnit Rich, I am very impressed with this reply.
Well they don't call him poor.
ahh good lord.
Biff...
The Republican attack machine loves to talk about the Liberal media spin machine.
Because Bill 'O' Reilly sits in a no spin zone right?
Hahahahaha.
Stop whining about the media. Its biased for the sake of its own ratings.
I live in liberal town MA for godsake and I cannot find one radio station in this goddamn state that has a democrat on it, so my flirtation with the liberal media, the same liberal media that did nothing to pursue any of the countless skid marks of shit that could have gotten the current retard in office impeached before he could have ruined this country any further, has been a sour one at best.
Unfortunately we have a situation where the left whines about the right not playing fair, and the right makes shit up about the left and people like you and Spodaddy buy into it because, "lawls, its better than what the democrats would do, or at least this book by the biased rich white guy tells me so." That winds up justifiying the lefts whining to its own crowd, but also makes them look weak. Its a great little set up the Republicans have really, this liberal media, if it wasn't this way, we might have actually gotten some justice blood out of this administration.
Also if you can actually still say with a straight face, "At least Bush is better than Kerry." then you deserve to have your right to vote taken away on grounds that your thoughts actually "physically" hurt America.
Stop whining.
LOL@ Yawa
This about sums things up.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1212758603
I gotta say, that shit is pretty funny
Good Stuff IMO
Pretty funny there Perrin.
It'd be funnier if at the end he evolved into Jimmy Carter :)
You really think so? What do you suppose they have in common?
An intense love of nuts?