Agnostics (and most athiests) are fine. Militant athiests can go fuck off, though. Particularly those two.
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Agnostics (and most athiests) are fine. Militant athiests can go fuck off, though. Particularly those two.
Militant atheist? can't say I've come across one in all my years, sounds positively douchey.
That wink is a direct quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
LOL rep given
you gotta be joking. Plz use the search function to find anything gozen has ever had to say about Christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
I meant irl, is gozen a militant atheist?
The Dems are scaring me with their magical, illegal "we'll just make it so you people don't have to foreclose" bullshit. Hey guess what, when you have no money, no credit, and not enough income, you don't get to own a house.
They are.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
I don't think you understand what an agnostic is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Here they come out of the woodwork...
I'm a deep cover operative for the Christian Coalition on a SNEAKING MISSION.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
What, if anything, do you know about either of them? Have you read any of their works? I guarantee you Spo hasn't. That's why he says stupid things, because he has no idea what he's talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
You win, I'll turn in my jr conservative badge.
Agreed. None of them have ever even thought about running a business. They'll bankrupt half the mortgage companies, killing people's ability to buy a house, killing the housing market, killing construction, killing manufacturing, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
IF IT FEELS GOOD DO IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I don't really believe they believe what they're saying, they're just pandering. Same as all the GOP guys blah blah blah about church.
Still, if we freeze the rates on these adjustable rate mortgages or stop foreclosures DISASTER will promptly follow.
That's always been the liberal motto.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrielSynthesis
I believe that they truly don't know any better. The leading Democrats have never run anything. None of them have ever owned a business or even been a mayor or governor. They are just completely clueless about how business works.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
I've read Dawkin's God Delusion and various essays by Hitchens.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Not. A. Fan.
And this is from when I was on the fence.
have never read dawkin's, Hitchens is one strange fucking guy.
Also not a fan.
I've read both Dawkins and Hitchens, which you should know because we've argued about this before. Here's a recap: you sounded like a dumb sociology major.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
/every liberal ever
Look, nobody knows if there is or isn't a god. Even Dawkins doesn't claim to know. But it is a logical improbability, and to defensibly believe something, one must establish a case for it to be probable. I'm not sure theists have done this to any athiest's satisfaction.
Every rational inductive "proof" to establish the probability of God's existence has long been dismissed as fallacious on purely logical grounds OR establishes something of such vague implications that to call it God would be a convenient leap of logic.
That said, I've always been respectful of people's personal beliefs because I think it's arrogant to assume you've penetrated the mysteries of the cosmos from the cheap seats down here on this speck of dust hurtling through the cosmos. That respect is not often mutual, though. Christians have taken to trying to suppress science in order to keep the faith, and that's holding back humans as a race.
If you want to keep evolution out of schools, you might as well be asking history class to teach that 9-11 was an inside job. It's just something that flies in the face of rationality, fact, and common sense, and if you want to believe it fine, but don't try to force it on children.
No you fuck off?
Anyspeed, I am a Christian (Methodist) who has no problems with evolution. We have a support group that meets Tuesday nights.
I keep my religion out of people's faces, and damn sure don't put up with views being forced in my direction. Seems to work out pretty good. :D
On Dawkins/Hitch:
Yeah, Hitchens does come across as a total douchebag w/his "omgreligion-in-and-of-itself has never done any good in the world" rants. Really? Ghandi? MLK? Those guys were both inspired by their faith to change the world for the better. Disclosure: I like Hitchens.
On Romney:
I worry about my country when my president's favorite book is Battlefield Earth.
I suspect Hitchens was raped by a Bishop. It's the only thing that makes sense.
What's your source on the Romney thing? That's fucked up!
I genuinely do have a lot of respect for religion, or any excuse that leads to you living a better life and contributing to those around you, but I have no respect for any attempt to impose religion on an unwilling party, formally or informally, and there are too many in this country that cross that line. That's all I'm saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Those Mormons...they'll believe anything!
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
No, I was actually quite articulate in the face of a constant barrage of non-sequiturs and logical fallacies. My only mistake was posting on such a deadend topic at all, and I readily admit that. What can I say? I'm a stubborn hillbilly with a computer and chip on his shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Is your new gimmick to follow every post by a conservative on this board with a hollow echo? Seriously, if you want to be punchy make your own posts, don't latch on to other peoples. Much as I'm loathe to say it; you're smarter than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
Hitchens pretty much addresses this directly all the time in his debates and articles. I'd point you to read this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
I don't know how you could say this if you'd read his work.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
I've read enough. I'm glad for you if you get some kind of deep truth out of it, but the man strikes me as vindictive/bitter.
And he's pretty much not running for president, can we move this into another thread and get on with right-left banter?
I never saw any bitterness or vindictiveness. Rather I see an uncompromisingly dry wit that cuts deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Nothing really more to say till Saturday night. The field will hopefully start to clear up a bit after SC.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Gozen loves to talk about how brilliant and articulate Hitchens is when he's trashing on religion. Gozen is mysteriously silent when Hitchens is defending the War on Terror or when he's pointing out that liberals get big fat boners when the American soldier death toll creeps towards a nice round number.
I've been saying this for years, my dear moonshine.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I've never seen so much dick-sucking in a single thread as this one. Biff is hanging on so tightly to Yoshi's nuts that he might as well just become a third testicle.
STFU gook :)
Actually Yoshi and I are politically aligned so it makes sense we agree. Also reread the thread, it's the converse.
I'd guess that the silence is due to him being dumbstruck by such a unfounded and completely stupid assumption on Hitchens' part.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Believe it or not, Spo. I can agree with one set of positions a person has on a topic, and yet completely disagree with them on another set of positions they hold on a different topic. I know this may come as a shock to you, but you don't HAVE to be in lockstep agreement with everything someone says. Also, nice touch with the completely ridiculous idea that liberals are somehow lusting for soldiers to die. If that were so, why would they want them to come home as soon as possible? You really are just blowing hot air and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Yes, like me and gozen agree that Tennessee has some really nice mountains.
not that I agree with the assertion, but the logic is that they are longing for their accusation against the oposing side to come true so that they can gain political power.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
It makes about as much sense as republicans longing for gays to rape babies though.
This is disingenuous even for you. I have major issues with Hillary but she may be the most qualified non-incumbent to run for President in terms of experience, ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Adams imoQuote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
I was gonna say Grover Cleveland since he had already been President and out when he won his second term.
True,Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
But Adams pretty much created the position, and worked with Washington to define what the responsibilites were. Not to mention, he was the real hero of the revolution. He did a wonderful job shame that nobody knows it.
MADISON, JAMES MADISON THE FATHER OF THE CONSTITUTION AND LIKE 4 FEET TALL
(/Graduate of James Madison University)
How so? Name one thing she has ever been in charge of in her life. My wife sure as shit can't do linear algebra and stochastic modeling just because she was around when I was doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
Not to mention she, in theory, has a vagina, which automatically removes her from a "qualified" list for most things.
She was not in charge of Bill Clinton's sausage either.
I'm just going to throw this out there. I'm sad Newt Gingrich is not running and sadder still that Jack Kemp can't be his running mate, and now my dream ticket does not exist.
I like Chris Rock's bit about this. "I've been married for ten years, and if my wife came up on stage, y'all wouldn't be laughing. At all."Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Adams has pretty much had an image makeover since I was a kid. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
The unearthed letters between him and Thomas Jefferson.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
You also weren't elected to lead the free world's linear algebra computation and stochastic modeling twice, and didn't head an entire governmental branch of linear algebra computation and stochastic modeling out of your house slash office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You can dislike her politically (I don't) and personally (I do) but to pretend all she did was make tea for Tony Blair's wife is a little ridiculous.
He was no Andrew Jackson.
Yeah right, that guy was an asshole.
that doesn't matter. Yoshi's point still stands. My dad is a doctor and even has his own clinic. My mother helps in the front office. Has been doing so longer than I can recall. Probably for like 15 years. She's even had EMT and nurse training.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
do you want her being your doctor?
Sure, Hilliary might do a better job than someone off the street. But we have no guarantee that she will be as good as Bill. None at all.
Not parallel. We don't send people to Commander-in-Chief school and have them intern at the White House (preemptive LOL!). Hillary comes closer to this in terms of her experience than anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
"But she hasn't run anything!" Sure, maybe, if that's even true. But running a city or state is a million times not the same as running the USA, so I could level a similar criticism at the GOP governors and mayors running. And that's ignoring McCain who is as underqualified as the Dems.
Jimmy Carter and W were governors too.
Obama praising Reagan, that must make Gozen all warm and fuzzy inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obama
What does Obama's statement have anything to do with me? It doesn't change the fact that Reagan was a war criminal just because Obama finds common ground with Reagan's supposed (though clearly from his policies not followed) small government principles.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
You try to hard (ha I get to say it) to be a super liberal, especially when reagan's economy paid for the house you live in.
Which presidents who have presided over any kind of military action HAVEN'T been portrayed as war criminals by somebody?
Might as well go ahead and get over that bit if bullshit.
FDR was super war criminal, and so was kennedy, illegally invading Cuba and all.
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
Reagan's economy didn't pay for squat. My father didn't get the job he went to college for because of the recession. He had to bust his ass to get to a position in the automotive plant he worked at to support our family. He doesn't owe that fucker anything, and neither do I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
Man you are a miserable grump. I suggest you move to China where you and your far left socialist pals can line up to be killed for eating more than twice a day.
And none of this changes the fact that Ronald Reagan committed treason. He sold arms to the same Iranians who held our people hostage and blew up our Marines in the Lebanon. He then used the money to fund the rape of nuns and the slaughter of civilians in South America. So, I think he wins the prize for war crimes. Keep spinning if you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
You really have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that's why you and Spo sound so much alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
I defy you to explain to me how any normal american would not consider you a socialist. I mean you think you can dictate what is right for everyone and that we are all incorrect for pursuing our own political agenda. In addition, nothing a conservative has EVER DONE sits right with you. Hi, Clinton rode Ronnie's wave, that can't be argued. You may not like what Reagan did, but he made us a stronger nation and brought down our biggest enemy without firing a shot.
So let me put it this way, tell me how you would run this country and who your ideal president would be so I can stop thinking you jerk off to a lenin poster every night.
I dunno, maybe actually talking to me might work. As opposed to just throwing around meaningless labels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
I never said any of these things. Where are you getting this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
It was largely Mikhal Gorbachev who did that. I won't say Reagan didn't play a part, but he is in no way deserving of the perception that he somehow 'won' the Cold War. History is the ultimate judge here. If you look at who ended the Soviet Era and laid the foundation for a democratic change in Russia, it wasn't Reagan. He had no part in it. It was Gorbachev who risked his life against the party hardliners to pass reforms in free speech, press, and real elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
How would I run this country? Fuck if I know. I'm not qualified to make many of the decisions that a President would have to. All I know is that there are things in this country that are wrong and need to be fixed; workers' rights, health & safety standards, environmental protection of our air, forests and rivers, and a broken education system. And what I have seen and read about from the last three Republican Presidents is policies that exacerbated these problems. This isn't to say that Clinton didn't do any damage, but comparatively his damage was a light slap. Now I won't say that none of these men never did anything positive during their time, but I'm not concerned about that. What concerns me is what they did that I think hurts America. I'm far more concerned with the screw ups of a public official than what they've accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
My ideal President? I don't know. I've yet to find a politician who I thought had the intelligence and the integrity to do a good job. Though if you're asking which one has come closest I'd probably have to take a step back and say probably Ralph Nader. He was a strong consumer and worker advocate who was very anti-special interest. Does that somehow make me a socialist? I dunno. I don't care. I don't vote for a candidate because I'm afraid of what I'll be labeled if I vote my principles instead.
Nader? Really?
Good answers. Now that's what I wanted to hear, you're quite reasonable when your not telling me I'm going to hell for liking Reagan.
I see the three main issues as follows
1) Improper balance in the global economy. We got our shit kicked around by the rest of the world because we were not ready for the impact of globalization. The cream rose to the top, the rest were sucked to the bottom. Increased tax breaks for mid level global corporations is a must.
2) Education: We need to have a test established that occurs every year across the nation, if you fail, you repeat. If you fail twice, your parents foot the bill for your 3rd try. If they can't pay or you can't pass, we need to establish state live in remedial schools.
3) Worker's rights: Working is a priviledge not a right, I see no reason to continue with the current union structure. Instead of focusing a union by trade, we should create a union of location. It would work much much better.
If you're looking for a person who dedicated their life to public service and advocacy for the little guy, I don't think you can find someone else like him. Pragmatically his Presidential runs have been hard to support, but if we're talking solely on principles then yes.
I really think you're thinking of Jimmy Carter but you're afraid to say it.
No, I meant what I said.
Hmmm
Has the winner of South Carolina come in?
The primary isn't till Saturday.
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
We already have something in this direction with No Child Left Behind, and its implementation has been a disaster. Schools that don't perform get even more funding, so what do they do? They continue to underachieve. Why work harder if you're already getting more money? They also skew their curriculum towards passing a national standard and not actually teaching things needed for success in the real world. This is already happening, since each state decides its own standards. "Standard" scores are all over the place nationwide.
Parents can remove their students from schools not meeting the standard, which can result in schools being left with only those students who can't afford to move or whose parent's don't care enough to do so, guaranteeing that said school continues to underperform.
The idea is good, but we definitely need to get out of the mindset that everyone is in school to take the SATs. Public education is a mess, and I think it's something the government has been just waving off like a nagging wife for far too long.
Remedial schools imo, state funded military style schools where you either get the grades to get into college or you learn a trade that is of use.
Such as IT skills, wood working, or service skills (IE call center training)
This is the only way. I grow tired of hearing the schools suffer budget setbacks by being forced to spend thousands of dollars a year on a kid who will never give a fuck and be out on the street the minute he turns 16 or whatever age it is where you can quit school.
A big part of the problem is the fact that it's almost impossible to fire a public school teacher once they have tenure (which usually only takes 3 years). The public school system is filled with awful teachers that don't give a shit anymore and we can't clean house because of the union.
A bigger part of the problem is that NCLB is fucking horrible. It is socialism and big government in an education paradigm - IE everything conservatives are supposed to hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
The union is a problem but take it away and you can kiss the teachers who have any other marketable skills goodbye when salaries fall. And you will be left with all bad teachers.
We're also not doing much to endear people to teaching by offering them shit salaries in poorly-run and underfunded schools.
One thing that is being pushed in Puerto Rico is vocational schools. The government is really trying to get kids who aren't going to college to go for a skill of some sort. There has also been a number of junior colleges and community colleges that have popped up over the last ten years or so, and it seems that more and more young people are opting for that over a standard college education. I don't blame them, given the rising costs of schooling and the immediate need for a decent job due to the crap economy here. I would recommend that they continue to educate and develop themselves professionally when things pick up financially for them, but I can fully understand and appreciate the need for a skill-based education that can be had in under 2 years. The government should do more to aid those who can't afford or don't want a 4-year college education but want to "get the skillz to pay da billz" and produce within society.
Yeah, I'm familiar with his argument on this (basically that "good" is done in the world with or without religion and that "bad" is often done in the name of religion).Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
But Hitchen's argument with religion is not that it's not perfect, or that it's mostly bad. He argues religion/faith is inherently, 100% bad.
Certainly there are plenty of ppl who do great things with no push from religion/faith. But there are plenty of ppl who do good things precisely because of their religion/faith. If Hitchens wants to condemn religion for the evil done in its name, I've no problem with that. But he has to accept the good done in the name of faith as well.
If he were a fairer man, a man less inclined to instigate and rail, he would say, "Religion can inspire men to do good and evil."
Controversy sells. He's the atheist version of Ann Coulter, IMO.
He's a cultured, erudite writer with a terrific command of the English language. I don't see the similarity.
That's fine.
Real conservatives do hate NCLB. Almost everybody hates NCLB.Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundy
Then why did they all vote for it?
we don't have any real conservatives anymore?
Well if I was a school teacher, I would be pissed, think about it. You just spent 4 years learning the trade of teaching, and come to find out that you make shit wages and have about 200 some odd students to teach a boring lesson plan. There setup to fail, its not there fault that there treated so poorly. You sound like you want Huckabee to win, he is all for the privatizing of public schools. He believes that if he makes more highschools into trade schools and allow companies to fund them that the learning process will be better. I go to a trade school, and I have to say that the way they have it setup the system is broken. Im stuck rightnow in a pre-engineering program that is run by a NASA nerd that all likes to do is build paper mashey planes and rockets. We have 1/2 a million dollars worth of equipment in the room that just sits in the classroom unused.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Looks like we know who you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granderoho
Don't go their.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
I guess everything comes full circle; the latest Hitchens article is about the election.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Hitchens
I cannot more strenuously agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch
Also, good find Yosh (+1 rep). Notice that, of the legit candidates, McCain is the only one who wasn't prominently spoofed there. Does anyone think, regardless of his long-time service in DC, that he won't be a bring a breath of fresh air?
EDIT: Can't give rep to you. Or Doc. Or Biff. I've been spreading myself around like a whore on Fleet Day...this rep system is fucked.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh, like Hilary.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
No, McCain sold out his principles long ago. He is a politician like all the rest now, the so-called "Straight Talk Express" has gone over the cliff and is now a fiery heap.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Powell is going to endorse McCain, that should clinch the election btw.
I hope not. I effing hate McCain. Hell, I'm not voting for President if McCain gets the nomination. Or Huckabee.
Rudy or Mitt are fine with me. I'm a Romney fan myself, but McCain hasn't got any conservative qualities besides "I like to kill stuff".
I vote for Jimmy Carter, he still has a term left!
Nah, he pretty much already endorsed Obama without doing so officially. He is done with the GOP, the knife is still sticking out of his back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey