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But training techniques and the methods used to get behavior into shape will be pretty much the same no mater what the breed. Some breeds and individuals may require a little more this and little less that but all dogs require the same exact kind of leadership to keep them in line.
I never denied this. All I'm saying is that if someone doesn't know what the fuck they're doing, reccomending a Pitbull is not a good idea. There are other dogs that are a bit less work.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaCrappa
I think the main point is that the consequences are more severe if you mess up than they are with others. You mess up a Short-Haired Doxin (Not sure on the spelling) like we have, and the amount of harm the dog could do is laughable.
Mess up on a Pit Bull or the dog specified here, and those are some drastic consequences.
I've never had a problem with any kind of real dog - lab, pit, shepherd, whatever. Those shitty little purse dogs are the bad ones; they piss everywhere, they shake constantly because they're cold, they bark at everything because their owners don't know anything about having an animal, and they get away with biting because of their crappy owners.
My buddy has two pits who are the sweetest dogs I've ever met, another has a pit that is lazy but loves her immensely, another buddy had an akita who was the most friendly and loyal dog, another buddy has a really intelligent and quiet labrador, a former coworker has a really chill and extremely obedient Italian mastiff, my uncle had a very friendly and gentle doberman, and my neighbors growing up had a german shepherd that cared so much about their kids it ran into the street and pushed one aside so that the kid wouldn't get hit by a car (the dog got hit, lived). I had a collie named Gizmo when I was young and he would wait for me to get home from school and follow me calmly to my room to make sure I put my things away properly. Heh.
On the other hand: another buddy of mine has a shih-tzu that keeps him up all night barking, one of my cousins has a papillon that bites the shit out of their kids and a guy I worked with at my old job had a pekingese that would deliberately pull tablecloths off of tables with plants on them to eat the plants. The buddy deals with the shih-tzu and never punishes it, the cousin never does anything to the papillon, and the guy I worked with continues to use tablecloths and never punishes the dog.
It's all about the owners and how they train the dogs (or the lack thereof). Got another buddy with a miniature dachsund he trained very well and she comes immediately when called, doesn't bark (except at cats she sees, but stops when told to stop), hops right up into your lap if you ask, won't lick your face, and is well behaved in every other area. He got her as a companion, not an accessory.
I've never had anything but pitbulls as an adult so the idea that there's any more or less work to be done is sort of moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
But leadership being key is why I say that "dogs is dogs". Of course breeds can be different from each other. And individual dogs have minds of their own too. But they all respond to the same type of leadership rendering them all virtually the same from the point of view where training fosters behavior.
And I think I already addressed my alleged "recommendation".
For the record, while we were never able to train him not to run around like an asshole outside, the adult pitbull my family adopted was an otherwise good dog, and I'm sad they had to get rid of him because he was too much of a liability on the farm. He was a pain in the ass until we got another dog, but once we did, he mellowed out and was really sweet, never aggressive toward people, if maybe a bit too rambunctious.
I'd own one again, if I was looking for second dog. I'm not sure I'd adopt an adult, though, and I don't think I'd get one as my only dog.
I had a Shar Pei and he was the most docile dog I've ever owned, but you can tell they were bred as gaurd dogs (and even fighting dogs at one time). The only time he would bark at people was when they came up to our house, but as soon as we greeted them he would stop and go back to sleep (also never had a dog sleep so much). He would sit by the front door and just watch for people. I know that's normal, but my family has owned lots of dogs, and he was very different about it and into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Outside the house he just loved attention from people, and he got a lot of it. Everyone would look and comment on him. He hated other dogs though and they hated him, all of them. Even when he was behaved his presence would drive other dogs nuts. He was attacked multiple times by dogs while we had him out on walks (always leashed due to the laws). One time my dad had to fight off a German Shepard by kicking it repeatedly till it let my dog go and ran away with a limp. Maybe a lot of it was due to lack of socialization, but even dogs I had met that were otherwise well behaved just wanted a piece of him. He and other dogs just naturally wanted to fight in a way none of my other dogs ever did, and we had some that were much less docile and behaved.
I also lived in an apt building where all the apts were lined up in a row off the courtyard leading to the main gate. There was a Chow that lived there and he would spend lots of time sitting at the head of the courtyard on some steps overlooking everything and watching the gate. He was really friendly too and reminded me of my old dog.
So that was my long winded way of saying I believe that fighting and aggression, as well as many other traits, are inherent in certain breeds. A good owner and trainer can channel that and teach the dog differently, but it is still there and will come out if they are not guided to do otherwise. I was sad when I found out recently that Shar Pei's were on most apartment buildings' restricted breeds list. When I'm in a situation when I can care for a dog again I plan on getting a rescue Shar Pei, so hopefully I will be able to find a place that accepts them. They really are very sweet. Down with breed hate!
I think Pa's dogs are the most docile animals I have ever met. That said, if I'm gonna adopt a dog, it's not gonna be a pit bull. Sure any poorly raised dog can be nasty, but a nasty pit bull can do a hell of a lot more damage than a nasty dog of some other breed.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaCrappa
Pa's dogs are some of the nicest dogs I have ever met, and I have met a lot of dogs. He did a great job as a dog dad imo.
Its true. They just walk around the house in their pajamas all day and if you say ANYTHING to them they'll be all "I'll fight u" and then they cry about zebra cakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief Silver
Damn man sorry to hear about your friend.
I'll agree with a lot of what Kid and Pa said. Specially Kid's comment about how some dog owners while good may not be good enough for a Pit. Really aggressive assertive dogs need you to be a fucking master dog trainer (like I'm sure Pa is) and a lot of good dog owners just aren't up to that level. I know I'm not.
My dog is half Whippet and half German Shepherd, and she thinks of me as God in her little world. I don't know if I'd be able to have that same level of control over some thing like a Pitt hence why I wouldn't try it.
My last dog was amazing, she was part cocker spaniel and after that I have no idea what else, but she was the most well behaved dog I've ever seen. Never barked, never bite anyone, was affectionate to everyone who came here. Amazing dog through and through, had her from when I was 4 till I was 22.
My friend whose awesome with dogs has a Pitt who is incredibly docile and sweet. I think certain breeds do have a nature to them but a great trainer can over come that.