B-2 Stealth Bomber crashes in Guam.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23302483

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msn

This breaking news story will be updated as more information becomes available.

HAGATNA, Guam - A B-2 stealth bomber crashed at an air base on Guam on Saturday but both pilots ejected safely and were in good condition, the Air Force said.

"They have been evaluated by medical authorities and are in good condition," the military said in a statement. An Air Force spokeswoman was not immediately available for further details.

Thick black smoke could be seen billowing from the wreckage at Andersen Air Force Base, said Geanne Ward, a resident in the northern village of Yigo who was on the base visiting her husband.

Ward said she didn't witness the crash but noticed a rising plume of smoke behind the base's air control tower.
She said crowds began to gather as emergency vehicles arrived Saturday morning local time.

"Everybody was on their cell phones, and the first thing everyone wanted to know was did the pilots make it out in time," she said.
A board of officers will investigate the accident.

Each B-2 bomber costs about $1.2 billion to build. All 21 stealth bombers are based at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri but the Air Force has been rotating several of them along with B-1 and B-52 bombers through Guam since 2004.

The rotations are designed to boost the U.S. security presence in the Asia-Pacific region while other U.S. forces are diverted to fight in the Middle East.
The accident occurred 11 days after a Navy plane crashed into the ocean about 20 miles northeast of Guam's Ritidian Point. Four aircrew members ejected from the EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft and were rescued by helicopter.

Guam is a U.S. territory 3,700 miles southwest of Hawaii.

---

Subtract another $1.2 billion from the defense budget. :eep:

Not particularly stealthy of it.

Wow, how shitty.

More than 1.2 billion, the cover-up will run anouther billion itself.

We sink all this money into a plane the enemy can't detect, and the damn things keep crashing. Typical.

Isn't this the only one that has crashed or has been destroyed?

Do you think they would say? Embarrassing, IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

Isn't this the only one that has crashed or has been destroyed?

---

That is the first crash that has been made public.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

Isn't this the only one that has crashed or has been destroyed?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JefeStone

That is the first crash that has been made public.

---

I haven't heard of a B-2 Stealth bomber crashing before, but I know the Stealth Fighter F-117 had been shot down before. So much for stealth technology.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeronotics.ru

It's now official - Americans lost their pride and joy: at least one of USAF's stealthiest aircraft, the F-117A Night Hawk, is lost to Yugoslav anti-aircraft defenses.

Russian Minister of Defence Igor Sergeyev announced that the stealthiest of the world's aircraft was brough down by two SA-6 surface-to-air missiles. Yugoslav Air Force officials said that the F-117 was also hit by one AAM launched from a MiG fighter aircraft.

The downing of the "invisible" plane follows an announcement by NATO's command that they "feel comfortable" sending NATO pilots on low-altitude, low-speed missions over Yugoslavia, now that Yugoslav air defenses are "effectively suppressed." Pentagon now officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an unidentified ground radar and that two SAMs were fired at the aircraft.

First reports suggested that the F-117A might have been tracked by a Czech-made Tamara passive radar - three passive receivers, each mounted a truck. Yugoslavia operates such radars in a somewhat modified form. However, latest information suggest that the F-117A was tracked by an old Soviet radar - a mid-1950s radar operating in 165-190cm wavelength range.

According to American aircraft designers and military, long-wave radars present a serious threat to stealth aircraft operated by the US.

---

Shit happens.

I wonder if the oil royalties we get from Iraq is worth it in the scheme of things.

The F-117 was designed and built in the 70s/80s, so it really shouldn't shock you that someone finally figured out how to detect it. It was also first generation stealth technology, and it is probably approaching the end of its usefulness as a strike fighter.

Stealth was never supposed to be used as a weapon. Find the weakest part of an enemies defense grid, send the stealth fighters in there, instant corridor for the real bombers to come in and exploit. Stealth was supposed to assist the bomber in getting in and out of an area, giving the pilot a greater chance of surviving the mission by having radar take a longer amount of time to aquire the target (F-117).

The B-2 has had an outstanding safety record, but the pilots are human, and so are the people who work on them. You can bet the Air Force will make damn sure that whatever happened to this one won't happen again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

Not particularly stealthy of it.

---

Actually, it crashed last week. We just couldn't see the crash until today because of stealth.

Damn. That's pretty stealthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Error

The F-117 was designed and built in the 70s/80s, so it really shouldn't shock you that someone finally figured out how to detect it. It was also first generation stealth technology, and it is probably approaching the end of its usefulness as a strike fighter.

Stealth was never supposed to be used as a weapon. Find the weakest part of an enemies defense grid, send the stealth fighters in there, instant corridor for the real bombers to come in and exploit. Stealth was supposed to assist the bomber in getting in and out of an area, giving the pilot a greater chance of surviving the mission by having radar take a longer amount of time to aquire the target (F-117).

The B-2 has had an outstanding safety record, but the pilots are human, and so are the people who work on them. You can bet the Air Force will make damn sure that whatever happened to this one won't happen again.

---

Do you have a source for that information on the F-117?

The first plane that evaded radar was the U2, but that was because it flew at such a high altitude.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shad...roject016.html

Quote:

---

In the late 1950's the American CIA began sending Lockheed U2 'spy-planes' over the Soviet Union to take intelligence photographs. The U2's flew at 80,000ft (24,000m) to be out of range of anti-aircraft fire, but it then became clear that radar was not detecting them.

---

I assume you are asking about the F-117 being the first stealth platform. Fair enough, you are correct about other aircraft having exhibited characteristics of stealth, but the F-117 was the first plane designed to go in harms way and do so using stealth technology.

http://www.laturbo.com/index.php?opt...491&Itemid=109
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf1171.html
http://www.historynet.com/magazines/...y/3038186.html

As for the U2, from what I've read in the past, the Russians knew they were flying overhead they just didn't have missiles or planes that could fly high enough to shoot them down. Then they developed something that could and that caused the Air Force to deploy the SR-71, which also had a small radar signature, and was too fast for anything the Russians could make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

Damn. That's pretty stealthy.

---

You know how we do...

http://www.layercake.net/wp-content/...wplanebig3.jpg

I remember a F-117 got shot down by serbian forces during the kosovo campaign. It is kinda funny, that such a high-tech airplane could be shot down by a hungarian baker. Zoltan Dani celebrates his 'kill' each year, by baking a cake shaped like the canopy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oltan_Dani.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dakidski

I remember a F-117 got shot down by serbian forces during the kosovo campaign. It is kinda funny, that such a high-tech airplane could be shot down by a hungarian baker. Zoltan Dani celebrates his 'kill' each year, by baking a cake shaped like the canopy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oltan_Dani.jpg

---

Bravo to him...

Sealth aircraft 10,000+.
Hungarian Baker 1+.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Sealth aircraft 10,000+.
Hungarian Baker 1+.

---

your right but I bet that one bomber costed way more than there entire army.

arent these things pretty much held together by duct tape now anyway? everytime i watch an aviation show on the Military Channel they talk about how they're constantly being serviced just to stay in the air. i don't think they've made any new ones since the original batch, which was how many years ago? i guess it's only a matter of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey

You know how we do...

http://www.layercake.net/wp-content/...wplanebig3.jpg

---

I never understood that thing. How does she find it? What's the benefit of looking like you are scooting your ass across the sky?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granderoho

your right but I bet that one bomber costed way more than there entire army.

---

lol good point lol! where both making good points here I think IMO so your right... i c both sides of the issue. just keep a level head about ur accomplishments in war....... that bomber prolly killed more people than a Hungarian baker did, amirite? RFLMAO!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

I never understood that thing. How does she find it? What's the benefit of looking like you are scooting your ass across the sky?

---

Her plane always looked like a big dildo to me, though it didn't have a nice base so using it would be risky! The last thing she probably needed is her clear plane dildo really disappearing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

lol good point lol! where both making good points here I think IMO so your right... i c both sides of the issue. just keep a level head about ur accomplishments in war....... that bomber prolly killed more people than a Hungarian baker did, amirite? RFLMAO!

---

yeah, your totally right.

rep rewarded!

EDIT: oops I can't give u rep right now. ill hit u next time playa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

rep rewarded!

EDIT: oops I can't give u rep right now. ill hit u next time playa

---

Likewise.

I gave you both stealth rep. You'll have to pick it up on the radar before it'll register.

Bahahahaha

I was just in Guam on vacation in early Jan. Nice beaches, lots of "massage parlors" and cheap ass strip clubs. Yes yes post pics, in time blah blah. warning though, lots of military and Japanese tourists. But at one of the strip clubs you can touch the girls. for like a buck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyne

arent these things pretty much held together by duct tape now anyway? everytime i watch an aviation show on the Military Channel they talk about how they're constantly being serviced just to stay in the air. i don't think they've made any new ones since the original batch, which was how many years ago? i guess it's only a matter of time.

---

I think the F-117's are out of service now. The B-2's I don't know a terrible a lot about their reliability but I think it's safe to say one has never crashed. People sit in lawn chairs and watch these things take off and would know if one didn't come back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M

I was just in Guam on vacation in early Jan. Nice beaches, lots of "massage parlors" and cheap ass strip clubs. Yes yes post pics, in time blah blah. warning though, lots of military and Japanese tourists. But at one of the strip clubs you can touch the girls. for like a buck.

---

You can touch the girls in strip clubs up here most of the time, too. Nothing grotesque, but wandering fingertips aren't frowned upon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M

I was just in Guam on vacation in early Jan. Nice beaches, lots of "massage parlors" and cheap ass strip clubs. Yes yes post pics, in time blah blah. warning though, lots of military and Japanese tourists. But at one of the strip clubs you can touch the girls. for like a buck.

---

In Guam I wouldn't be suprised if for a few bucks extra you get a poke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

just keep a level head about ur accomplishments in war....... that bomber prolly killed more people than a Hungarian baker did, amirite? RFLMAO!

---

The F-117 pilot survived. The total serbian army casualties was under 500 as far as I remember, so it wasn't a total slaughter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

I think the F-117's are out of service now.

---

Yeah, because it's been replace by this bad mother f'er. The F-22 Raptor is the most advanced fighter jet on the planet.



We were doing work at General Dynamics, back in the 90's, and they were competing(with the YF-22A) against the other jet fighter called the YF-23A Black Widow II. I have a promotional picture somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granderoho

yeah, your totally right.

---

This is the second time you've done this in just this thread. Educate yourself past the second grade: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/your.html

Tommy Tallarico

Have there been any new military planes since like 1990?

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the first fighter plane to be ordered for service by Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, there is also a version being developed for the British, and at some point the Australian and Canadian Air Forces will likely pick them up as well. They are replacing the F-16 in the Air Force, the Harrier in the Marine Corps, and I'm not quite sure what the Navy wants them for other than to maybe replace their F/A-18s that aren't F/A-18E and Fs, which recently replaced the F-14 as fleet defenders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granderoho

your right but I bet that one bomber costed way more than there entire army.

---

And I'll bet the Hungarians can type a better English sentence than you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Have there been any new military planes since like 1990?

---

Not that we've needed to deploy and make public.

Raptor, noobs.

That's like a new model rather than a whole new plane though.

Wrongo buckwheat

http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/images/F22.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wbomber223.xml

So the Air Force have decided to ground the entire fleet until they can figure out what caused this one to crash. Nice safe plan in my opinion.

The F-22 and the F-35 are likely to be the last manned fighter planes ever built by the United States. Thanks to the success of the Predator drones and their unmanned brethren, bean counters are figuring out that its cheaper to build a fleet of robotic or remote controlled aircraft than it is to train fighter pilots and build defense mechanisms for the planes they fly in. After all, if a drone gets shot down they don't need to send a rescue chopper into an already dangerous area to save the pilots, potentially at the cost of more planes and helicopters.

It sucks, but math conquers all I fear.

That doesn't suck. I don't want people dying in planes in a war when they don't have to. Let the robots fight it out.

Flying fighter planes is cool. In the great scheme of things its great, but there goes half of 6 year old's dream jobs for the now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stormy

That doesn't suck. I don't want people dying in planes in a war when they don't have to. Let the robots fight it out.

---

I'd rather have a choice when Skynet decides to wipe me out thank you.

It's no secret that our Air Force's fleet is getting up there in years, and it's going to take a twenty metric shit-tons of cash to keep it adequate in the coming decade. This is further exacerbated by the fact that there has been little innovation in air power during the past fifteen years.

A very significant portion of our budget went towards such research during the Reagan years. This windfall of money was later lambasted by the public.

"Billions of money to research invisible planes? Blah blah blah..."

What people failed to realize was that such spending, however outrageous it might have been, netted some pretty impressive technical results.

As the subsequent three administrations have avoided such practices due to political ramifications, the result is the atrophied Air Force you see today. While the F-22 is technically a "new plane," it's basically a 1990 YF-22 prototype with superficial enhancements. Yep, that's right. A product of Reagan-era spending.

The truth of the matter is that these unfortunate incidents aren't going to magically go away as funding dwindles and the planes continue to age. Sure, it's fun to rag on presidents for "burning money" on "invisible planes." But it's going to be a lot less fun to lose your air superiority to an emerging superpower.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Error

I'd rather have a choice when Skynet decides to wipe me out thank you.

---

Fo real. Either that or I have to extend my Shoryuken training to 30K feet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squall_vb

What people failed to realize was that such spending, however outrageous it might have been, netted some pretty impressive technical results.

As the subsequent three administrations have avoided such practices due to political ramifications, the result is the atrophied Air Force you see today. While the F-22 is technically a "new plane," it's basically a 1990 YF-22 prototype with superficial enhancements. Yep, that's right. A product of Reagan-era spending.

The truth of the matter is that these unfortunate incidents aren't going to magically go away as funding dwindles and the planes continue to age. Sure, it's fun to rag on presidents for "burning money" on "invisible planes." But it's going to be a lot less fun to lose your air superiority to an emerging superpower.

---

The Airforce is the most expensive branch of the military, and people could argue that they do less to do with the war effort than the army or navy. All the money that we shovel to them, it better dish out some pretty damn good technical achievements.

I want my next car to be an F-22. Those things are pure baddass.


On the subject of unmanned fighter jets: Is that safe? Without a pilot it would be a fucking disaster if the enemy hacked the plane (however remote the chance may be) after takeoff and took over the flight controls. I'd think there'd have to be some sort of 100% guarantee that the US is flying the plane. With one of our men physically in the plane you have that. With the pilot hundreds of miles away at a desk...who knows?

Skynet = main problem.

Or, Staff Sgt. Bob having a bad afternoon after finding out First Sgt. Tad has been sleeping with his woman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granderoho

The Airforce is the most expensive branch of the military, and people could argue that they do less to do with the war effort than the army or navy. All the money that we shovel to them, it better dish out some pretty damn good technical achievements.

---

I would like to see how well the Army would do without an Air Force to protect them from enemy bombers. And it does dish out some pretty damn good technical achievements. It took the rest of the world 20 years to catch up to the capabilities of an F-15, it will take just as long if not longer to catch up to the F-22.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Error

I would like to see how well the Army would do without an Air Force to protect them from enemy bombers. And it does dish out some pretty damn good technical achievements. It took the rest of the world 20 years to catch up to the capabilities of an F-15, it will take just as long if not longer to catch up to the F-22.

---

Your name doesn't suit you. This is all the answer that is needed.

Our Air Force is fucking awesome. Don't step, son.