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I don't know why so many people love this game; it was pure and total crap to me. The story was crap, the battles were alright, the graphics were cool, the characters were basic, and the whole game seemed to go nowhere. It only got slightly better at the end(like you didn't know the girl would join you.......give me a break), but that's not saying much. Maybe FFVII spoiled me, but I can find NOTHING good about this game. Let the zidane747 bashing commence.
Yes. Yes you are. How anyone canot simply fall in love with the incredible environments and atmospheres is beyond me. Easily the best RPG I've ever played.
hey, i'm with ya... well, not totally... i still really like the game, it's just that i think it gets too much praise...
the story was pretty generic... it really didn't do much for me...
i did like the characters...
i loved the battle system... having the same number of SP every battle made random battles much less hectic, because you don't have to worry about conserving MP...
... as for the random battles, i had no problem with them... they didn't seem any more frequent than every other RPG i have played (and that's quite a few), and the battle system made it so that the Random battles were usually over relatively quickly.
i still enjoyed the game... it's just that the story didn't really compell me... it did have some great moments though (going through the dark rift was friggin' amazing)
Coming from a MGS2 fan? Ha I say! Ha!
Other than the random battles I loved the game
I enjoyed it quite a bit. I loved the characters, story was fun. It had it's up and downs. I remember that one air shuip part where you have to fight every freaking 10 seconds. That was a bitch to get through. To this day my game is waiting for me just before the last dungeon though...I've had the urge to go through Grandia II again. I freaking LOVE that battle system.
Me too, sir, me too. No RPG can outmatch FF7. It makes nearly everything else look basic and plain.Quote:
Originally posted by zidane747
Maybe FFVII spoiled me
Skies looks OK from the demo I played, though. Not remarkable.
pssstt...hey rob. mebbe you should play the whole game and experience it before you say FF7 us better. just a suggestion :D
pssst... rob... FF7 was better... :p
Let me guess, you boys who were spoiled by FF7, was it the first rpg or FF that you have played?
Let me just add another HA!!Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
Coming from a MGS2 fan? Ha I say! Ha!
Quote:
Originally posted by Hot Like Wasabi
Let me guess, you boys who were spoiled by FF7, was it the first rpg or FF that you have played?
same thing i was thinking.
Well,everyone have his own taste and the right to have his opinion but yours are weird and to answer your question;yes,you must be the only one on the board who don't like this game:)
But it also means that you don't like(or didn't try) a lot of rpg if your only reference in rpg is ff7.
first of all, FFVI beats the shit out of FF7.. although FF7 did pretty much introduce new things and make RPG's mainstream, looking back on it, it wasn't that great, and not nearly as good as skies of arcadia..
it's one saving grace was sephiroth.. admittedly, he was damn cool.. then again, i could counter by saying skies had ramirez..
where there is light............there is darkness.. :evil:
hehe he's so bad-ass..
and next time you start a thread like this, please just be upfront and state your opinion -- that any RPG not on a sony platform can only be mediocre, at best.. :p
I'm not the biggest SoA fan or anything, but if FF7 "spoiled you" then you must really hate gameplay. FF7 was utter dreck.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Me too, sir, me too. No RPG can outmatch FF7. It makes nearly everything else look basic and plain.
Things like story and charaters are wholly subjective, but FF7 had an obnoxiouly simplistic battle engine, godawful linear and pointless dungeon design, and basically everything about the way it actually played was truly awful. The cliched characters and hackneyed melodrama weren't winning me over much either, but then most people thought Titanic was great too, so there's no accounting for taste. It just feels like a lousy movie wrapped around a substandard barebones RPG engine to me. Maybe you liked the lousy movie part, but the game sucked.
Skies of Arcadia is better than FF7, not a huge deal better, but significantly better, for so many reasons it's not worth the trouble of saying them all. But like everything else, this is only an opinion.
If you didn't like it, that's your loss. Hey, I dislike MGS so that's my loss.
he plays games for 14 hours a day, MGS2 is his favorite game which takes up 99% of his time and FF7 is better than SoA? thats one helluva an opinion.
Skies of Arcadia is my favourite game of all time. :)
It does not have the best battle system ever invented (that honour goes to the Grandia series), but I did enjoy the battle system quite a bit anyway.
What makes this game incredibly special, in my mind, was the incredibly beautiful world which the game takes place in.. Not to mention the epic adventure, the different lands, the ship battles, the character designs, the music... it's all so incredibly good, at least for me. I wish I could live in Arcadia. ;)
....
I dunno, different people have different taste though. I don't have even the slightest desire to play MGS2 or any of the FF games mentioned here. I won't trash them, I'll just say that they have absolutely no appeal to me whatsoever - to be nice. Point being that perhaps the things that attract people to these various games is quite different.
*shrug*
Oh well, your loss. :p
I have a pretty good idea that it wouldn't be in my top 5 favorite RPGs just on first impressions alone and a taste of the battle system. Gamer's intuition.Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonmaster Dyne
pssstt...hey rob. mebbe you should play the whole game and experience it before you say FF7 us better. just a suggestion :D
We're on trial! No, I played the original FF, but that was my only other significant experience with RPGs before, and thank God for that.Quote:
Originally posted by Hot Like Wasabi
Let me guess, you boys who were spoiled by FF7, was it the first rpg or FF that you have played?
I've played plenty of RPGs and it has the best gameplay of them all, because it actually tries and succeeds at doing more than tedious random battles (like involving you in the escape from Midgar, or the journey from Icicle Lodge on snowboard). The only RPG I've enjoyed as much on its gameplay alone has been Lufia II.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
I'm not the biggest SoA fan or anything, but if FF7 "spoiled you" then you must really hate gameplay. FF7 was utter dreck.
And I like the battle system more than your typical RPG battle system. I liked the materia system. I liked the tons and tons of fun sidequests. I liked the detail loaded into each city and each dungeon. I liked the fact that the whole world felt cohesive and fully realized. No other RPG has done that for me. For once, Zidane knows what he's talking about.
Well I didn't hate the game, far from it, but I didn't really care for it too much. The only time I had any fun in this game was during the boss battles. Characters were the typical anime stereotypes, the story turned into the ole find the crystal quest(I'm gonna assume it severely changes but the story was never intersting enough for me to want to finish the game), random battles were pretty sick etc..I could see people having fun with this game if they're big time console "rpg" lovers but I don't see how this game is so highly regarded, then again, I only hear such things at TNL...
well duh! were the only peeps who bought a dreamcast for something other than NFL2K :)Quote:
Originally posted by Chojin
then again, I only hear such things at TNL...
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonmaster Dyne
well duh! were the only peeps who bought a dreamcast for something other than NFL2K :)
:rolleyes:
Ummm guys how bout if we quit treating Zidane like a rabid animal about to be put to sleep. Rock on with your opinion sir. *-neo
I really wanted to like it, and I devoted probably 5-7 hrs to it, but it just did nothing for me. I was so bored with it. I know thats not a popular opinion, but it really did nothing for me. Now that FF7 thing going on here, thats just crazy. "No RPG can outmatch FF7. It makes nearly everything else look basic and plain.". Surely your joking. Thats just so silly, I could never believe that someone actually thought that about such a lame rpg. No sir, I don't like it.
Dare I ask why? I could write a 5 page essay on why FF7 is so great and no one can tell why any RPG is better. They aren't. They rely too heavily on everything that's been done before. FF7 did not. FF7 broke ground, FF7 tried to be something greater. Apparently that's frowned upon here. This is one of the few times I'll ever say this, but if you don't like FF7, you have shitty taste. Seriously. I can understand differences of opinion on many games, but some things are truly inexplicable, and FF7 hate is one of those things.Quote:
Surely your joking. Thats just so silly
Nothing can measure up to truly hackneyed, plain and boring "chibi" sprite RPGs of the SNES era, though, I'll admit.
Well, I for one don't hate FF7, but I do think it is highly overrated. The cut scenes looked nice but took up too much of the game IMO. Nice story, yes. Good (but static) graphics, yes. Good music, yes. It's just not the electronic orgasm that everyone makes it out to be.
It did break ground in some aspects, but also merely dressed up with CG and great graphics a lot of things that had been done before in other RPGs (ex: a character's death).
It's also funny how people diss on Skies' random battles but conveniently forget that FF7 had them too...
Wait a minute. Which game are you refering to here?Quote:
Originally posted by Chojin
The only time I had any fun in this game was during the boss battles. Characters were the typical anime stereotypes, the story turned into the ole find the crystal quest(I'm gonna assume it severely changes but the story was never intersting enough for me to want to finish the game), random battles were pretty sick etc..
I think you summed them both up pretty well, although Skies has happier characters and actually tries to be inventive and do new things. Oh wait, FFVII had the most hysterically abusable battle system ever with their complete amount of inventiveness consisting of Materia, right?
I never finished Skies, though what I did play I throughly enjoyed and found nicely done and a breath of fresh air in terms of design and execution in console RPGs. I found FFVII enjoyable too, though once I encountered about four characters I figured out the entire rest of the story within minutes, and once I figured out how to work Materia the game became the easiest RPG I've ever encountered. I mean, the difficulty is truly pathetic, and their "extra-powerful" extra bosses wish they were half as tough as the Earth Dragon from SaGa Frontier.
I'm not saying FFVII is nessecarily bad because it's easy, before anyone gets that impression, it's just that I never really felt any urgency or strategy needed because it was so simple to beat everything. Except Ruby, I actually had to stock some items for that, not that doing that was too hard since the most common Materia in the game gives you over one million Gil if you sell it. Sell three and you're set for the entire game, no matter what you do.
Unless you found the W-Item glitch, in which case not even that is really needed.
I remember when I was playing FF7 and I remember the pain it brought me. I had to MAKE myself beat it. I hated it. It hurt my eyes, it hurt my ears, it was soooo tedious and boring. Go to next village, talk to everyone, go to next village, talk to everyone(enter many random battles with boring camera sweep-ins that you couldn't bypass), go to next village......repeat many times. That was truely a dark time for me. I did enjoy some of the cinemas and a couple tunes but it was not worth it for me. FF7 may have been part of the reason I didn't continue Skies of Arcadia. I made myself beat FF7 even though I hated it but I believe it was at that time that I decided not to continue playing a game if I didn't like it. Maybe I will go play a bit more of Skies though, maybe something will click, everyone seems to like it.
Nonsense, unless a few minutes of story progression every hour or two should be excluded from a game? Perhaps it would be acceptable if they didn't have FMVs and progressed the story by 100% "page turning" conversations ("oh my god!!" -> "weapon has just emerged from the sea!!" -> "we must fight it!" not quite the same).Quote:
Originally posted by Melf
Well, I for one don't hate FF7, but I do think it is highly overrated. The cut scenes looked nice but took up too much of the game IMO.
Good, someone likes it. I'm truly thrilled. Honestly.Quote:
Nice story, yes.
And what RPG didn't, especially in '97.Quote:
Good (but static) graphics, yes.
Oh yes it was. ;)Quote:
It's just not the electronic orgasm that everyone makes it out to be.
People also want to forget all of the little things that make FF7 stand out and a deep RPG experience, so all is fair.Quote:
It's also funny how people diss on Skies' random battles but conveniently forget that FF7 had them too...
I prefer in-game cut scenes, which preserve the fluidity of the gameplay a lot more than an abrupt pause, followed by CG characters mouthing some such thing, followed by another abrupt pause.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Nonsense, unless a few minutes of story progression every hour or two should be excluded from a game? Perhaps it would be acceptable if they didn't have FMVs and progressed the story by 100% "page turning" conversations ("oh my god!!" -> "weapon has just emerged from the sea!!" -> "we must fight it!" not quite the same).
You have just described every RPG other than FF7 more perfectly. Not a fan of the genre at all, I take it?Quote:
Originally posted by kbuchanan
Go to next village, talk to everyone, go to next village, talk to everyone(enter many random battles with boring camera sweep-ins that you couldn't bypass), go to next village......repeat many times. That
I think he was more getting at that story progression should be more focused on the in-game graphics and good writing then by trying so hard to impress the masses with pretty graphics. Actually watching the Weapons emerge right in front of the characters would have been far cooler then cutting away, using completely different, much higher quality models to really show off how bad they normally look in comparision, and having a wide variety of camera angles to make absolutely sure it's a pain in the ass to get a size of their scope. As opposed to, say, actually running up to Atma Weapon and seeing yourself compared to it right there, or Kefka splitting the world in half and there's no massive distraction while watching the people fall.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Nonsense, unless a few minutes of story progression every hour or two should be excluded from a game? Perhaps it would be acceptable if they didn't have FMVs and progressed the story by 100% "page turning" conversations ("oh my god!!" -> "weapon has just emerged from the sea!!" -> "we must fight it!" not quite the same).
It really ruins the immersive factor to have huge glaring differences sprinkled throughout, sticking out like a sore thumb. They were pretty, but so obviously didn't fit.
Now, whenever they bothered to actually take the time, they integrated FMV beautifully into the game, using it to rise up and show new areas or various actions (like when you first see the Airship, or when the red plane takes off), but the scenes were they focused more on it looking good over continuing the flow of the game (Sephiroth tearing out Jenova's cover) were horrible.
Anyone who didn't make it to the Silver Moon does not have an educated opinion about Skies of Arcadia. That place was so damn cool that it made the game twice as good, and if you never got there, you don't know what SoA is all about.
Fantastic game. If you hated it, its clearly your loss.
Every random battle is a sharp contrast with walking around dungeons and talking to people, so I don't see the big deal in another layer to the formula.Quote:
Originally posted by Melf
I prefer in-game cut scenes, which preserve the fluidity of the gameplay a lot more than an abrupt pause, followed by CG characters mouthing some such thing, followed by another abrupt pause.
Okay, now I really question if you've even played the game. You can attribute that to almost every RPG, most definately including FFVII. In fact, that's damn near what started the whole camera thing, though the village, talk, repeat has been around since the beginning of console RPGs.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
You have just described every RPG other than FF7 more perfectly. Not a fan of the genre at all, I take it?
Mech, you read my mind... :)
Actually, that's yet another problem. Square really didn't care what the hell the game looked or flowed like, just so long as they could market it well. By the end, you have small low-poly SD characters that are the same as their full-size counterparts that are the same as their high-quality movie clip counterparts. It's like interspercing Ninja Scroll randomly into Dragon Half.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Every random battle is a sharp contrast with walking around dungeons and talking to people, so I don't see the big deal in another layer to the formula.
No, I just described FF7. And I could say the same about you. If you think your love of FF7 gives you rpg credence, your very mistaken. You shouldn't try to insult me just cause I don't like a game that you somehow love. I've no doubt been playing rpgs since before you even knew they existed(as indicated by your unnatural love for FF7).Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
You have just described every RPG other than FF7 more perfectly. Not a fan of the genre at all, I take it?
Using that argument then, FF7 kills the continuity twice. :p Random battles don't tell part of the story though. Cut scenes, CG or in-game, do.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Every random battle is a sharp contrast with walking around dungeons and talking to people, so I don't see the big deal in another layer to the formula.
Took the words right out of my mouth.Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
Okay, now I really question if you've even played the game. You can attribute that to almost every RPG, most definately including FFVII. In fact, that's damn near what started the whole camera thing, though the village, talk, repeat has been around since the beginning of console RPGs.
I can't tell you how many times I've had arguments about FMVs. The supporters are always espousing their beloved SNES FFs, and what they don't realize is the fact that they had similar cutscenes, just far less dynamic. That's the big difference. They take up the same amount of time, they're just flat. Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.
Hm? Every RPG more so. That's what I was saying. Visiting places is unavoidable, but FF7 didn't make it forced or routine. I can actually recall the events that take place, and it isn't "village to village" like most RPGs. And it doesn't play out like most RPGs.Quote:
Okay, now I really question if you've even played the game. You can attribute that to almost every RPG, most definately including FFVII. In fact, that's damn near what started the whole camera thing, though the village, talk, repeat has been around since the beginning of console RPGs.
Wha? You just knocked FF7 for the core practice of nearly every RPG ever made. I like FF7 for being more than the average RPG. You don't like FF7, you don't like Skies of Arcadia, and you don't like the "village to village" routines, then where does that leave you? I would guess not liking RPGs at all, which you haven't proved a false assumption yet.Quote:
Originally posted by kbuchanan
No, I just described FF7. And I could say the same about you. If you think your love of FF7 gives you rpg credence, your very mistaken. You shouldn't try to insult me just cause I don't like a game that you somehow love. I've no doubt been playing rpgs since before you even knew they existed(as indicated by your unnatural love for FF7).
You're right, and a chibi sprite doesn't have to be what respresents that, I never said that. That's even what I specifically said Atma Weapon, as he was a giant sprite that conveyed he was so much more powerful then all the other enemies. You knew what he was simply by looking at him, you didn't need to have the game shut off and it's counterpart movie version start up and go on for five minutes twirling in circles to know it was bad-ass, you simply looked at it.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.
And Valkryie Profile also destroys your logic. In huge amounts, I might add, especially concerning bosses, and in cutscenes.
That's only because you remember it so fondly. It was the first RPG to really grab your attention again, and so it became "more" to you. It was routine, and it was extremely forced. It was painfully obvious every step of the way (except for the plane, which was simply the most annoying trek in the entire game trying to figure out the first time) where you were supposed to go, as they only offered one choice everywhere and if a choice was ever offered, they usually spent ten minutes discussing how such-and-such city was where they needed to go. And no other city offered anything until you needed to go there.Quote:
Hm? Every RPG more so. That's what I was saying. Visiting places is unavoidable, but FF7 didn't make it forced or routine. I can actually recall the events that take place, and it isn't "village to village" like most RPGs. And it doesn't play out like most RPGs.
But that's the beauty of some RPGs. The illusion of freedom through a forced and direct path.
I don't see how the SNES FF analogy is relevant, since we're discussing modern games (namely Skies). In the old days they were flat. However, today's in-game scenes do much more, like talk and change camera angles. They still retain the fluidity of the game. I find that more appealing than the game pausing to show CG characters which hardly resemble (if at all) the actual in-game character models. I just don't like the jump in style.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I can't tell you how many times I've had arguments about FMVs. The supporters are always espousing their beloved SNES FFs, and what they don't realize is the fact that they had similar cutscenes, just far less dynamic. That's the big difference. They take up the same amount of time, they're just flat. Simply put, Weapon wouldn't be as interesting or fearsome if the scene was depicted by a chibi sprite trudging across a two-tone body of water with "thwump, thwump" sound effects. Really, we've advanced beyond that.
BTW: How could you distinguish between cut scenes and just talking to npcs on SNES? Weren't they essentially the same?
I can understand it, but I didn't feel the same way. It made it more realistic and cinematic. I'll admit, I love cinematic games. A lot don't.Quote:
Originally posted by Melf
I just don't like the jump in style.
What I meant by cutscenes in SNES RPGs is like when, in FF5, they would show cities getting sucked into black vortexes or the party spinning wildly around the globe in an airship. They used the world map graphics, but it was essentially what would later be replaced by FMVs.Quote:
BTW: How could you distinguish between cut scenes and just talking to npcs on SNES? Weren't they essentially the same?
No. No game gets slack for being "the first." You wouldn't find any of the first games I played on my list of favorites because they've all been outclasses by numerous games. FF7 hasn't.Quote:
That's only because you remember it so fondly. It was the first RPG to really grab your attention again, and so it became "more" to you.
I'm not even going to respond to the other bit because I disagree completely and there's no changing your mind (nor would I want to) or mine.
FF7 will always be in my top ten list of favored RPGs. I loved this game in spite of its flaws. Skies of Arcadia on the other hand will always surpass it. What really impressed me about SOA was that there wasn't nary a trace of CG to be found and it still managed to tell a decent story.
That being said. Square hasn't done anything right since FF7.
Copy and paste from my post on the other thread:
Skies is really not that good, Final Fantasy X is a much better game. Whilst I love the characters, the music and it had some nice plot twists, the game is dominated by random battles. These random battles are way too frequent, take ages to load up and just too damn easy. The magic system is a joke and fairly useless except increm and incremus as physical attacks do way more damage. The spirit level thing is a nice idea but again, it makes magic useless: why use up spirit points when you can use an inexpensive item with the same effect? Due to the constant random battles, you have a ridiculous amount of money to spend on riselem, sacrulen and sacrum crystals as well as all the best weapons. The game is also way too easy: once someone has increm, Aika has Lambda Burst (which totally destroys the weaker enemies in random battles) and Vyse has both Pirate's Wrath and Rain of Swords, the battles are completely sussed out. Ship battles are way too easy due to the complete kit item which is dirt cheap and readily available. It's a nice game (hey, I spent $100 on the limited edition boxset- kick ass art book) but the constant random battles, the easiness, dated graphics, absence of voices and absence of Square standard CG scenes mean that it aint so polished which is a shame cos the music, art style, plot and characters are so damn appealing.
And yes I have completed the game.
Tales of Eternia had more sidequests and minigames than FF7. They were alot more fun and better designed too. Not only that, but it actually had memorable and clever puzzles in it's dungeon design. And variety. And it had a skill based battle system that took actual strategy to win. Let's face it, you could teach a dead monkey to beat FF7. Your level and equeiptment are the only real factors to winning.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I've played plenty of RPGs and it has the best gameplay of them all, because it actually tries and succeeds at doing more than tedious random battles (like involving you in the escape from Midgar, or the journey from Icicle Lodge on snowboard). The only RPG I've enjoyed as much on its gameplay alone has been Lufia II.
And I like the battle system more than your typical RPG battle system. I liked the materia system. I liked the tons and tons of fun sidequests. I liked the detail loaded into each city and each dungeon. I liked the fact that the whole world felt cohesive and fully realized. No other RPG has done that for me. For once, Zidane knows what he's talking about.
There were some distractions and minigames, but nothing approaching any actual meat to the gameplay. In all fairness this is true of alot of RPGs, but I hate those too. Tales of Eternia, Valkyrie Profile, etc break away from this, and those are what I would call gamer's RPGs, instead of just crappy movies with shallow random battles
You can treat it like a fact all you want, but if Tales of Destiny was any indication, I'd be quite bored to tears. The series seems stuck in 1995.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
Tales of Eternia had more sidequests and minigames than FF7. They were alot more fun and better designed too.
Wow, I can't wait to be bored by the "clever" and "memorable" puzzles. I don't like Tales games, sorry.Quote:
Not only that, but it actually had memorable and clever puzzles in it's dungeon design. And variety.
Any RPG can be beaten if you level up and have the right equipment.Quote:
And it had a skill based battle system that took actual strategy to win. Let's face it, you could teach a dead monkey to beat FF7. Your level and equeiptment are the only real factors to winning.
That's what I'd call pretension, labeling the games you like "gamer's RPGs." Get over yourself.Quote:
Tales of Eternia, Valkyrie Profile, etc break away from this, and those are what I would call gamer's RPGs, instead of just crappy movies with shallow random battles
The world in which Final Fantasy VII is set in is anything but cohesive, it's more like a collage of disparite cliches thrown together: here's a futuristic metropolis, there's a medieval hamlet, here's a 20th century beach resort, there's a tribal village, here's a rocket, there's a chocobo, ect.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I liked the detail loaded into each city and each dungeon. I liked the fact that the whole world felt cohesive and fully realized. No other RPG has done that for me.
Skies of Arcadia is not entirely unified either, but it does capture the essense of an age of exploration and a rise in industry and technology of a period akin to our 18th-19th centuries.
I'm not saying video games need to be historically accurate at all, but FF VII seemed to consist of a lot of randomly collected elements.
But more importantly, the imagination of placing SoA in a world of the high skies instead of in the seven seas or of earning a reputation through making discoveries or of building a ship, crew, and base make this RPG stand out amongst most of the pack.
FF VII introduced us to a new generation of RPG's in terms of visuals and mass appeal, to be sure, but it's hardly the best of the genre's history. It's not even the best Final Fantasy.
I wish everyone would get over the "mass appeal" trip. And since when does variety inhibit cohesion? The world still felt together, unlike many others with no variety and still a feeling of disconnectedness. You can call them "cliches" all you want, but I'll be damned if I've ever seen another RPG city on the level of Midgar.
And you know in real life there aren't beach resorts, rustic towns and metropolises all on the same planet. :rolleyes:
You're right. Midgar was impressive. That's why I was pissed once you left the city walls. Most everything after that was a let-down in comparison.
On the other hand, SoA just keeps getting betta' and betta'. :evil:
Anyway, somebody mentioned how polished Square RPG's are... big budget special effect-laden blockbusters have their place in the movie biz and they have their counterpart in the world of video games as well. They're just not for everyone. Some of us dig quirky indy flicks. :jest:
I think Square does exceptional blockbuster RPGs and "indie" RPGs (well, used to, but I won't get into that). SaGa Frontier II is a good example of a stretching, breaking, reshaping the boundaries type of small time RPG (as small as a Square RPG can be, at least). It's really different.
to say FF7 is different from any other rpg is dumb. to say FF7 doesnt force you to go town to town is dumb. BUT....now read this.....yes, at one point in the game (just like EVERY other FF) you can basically go anywhere do anything in any order (kind of) but for that first part you're still going town to town...and to say otherwise is being closed minded and moronic.
but lets just end this. Lunar and Y's own both games hands down. :D
I'm gonna try to step around the RPG debate going on. I'll just comment on why I love Skies.
I see alot of people saying that Skies doesnt do anything new, but is still good. Skies does do things new, and its damn good.
Vyse cares. Plain and simple. Thats what Skies did diffrently. Vyse cares about his friends and family. Vyse has undying hope and faith. I have seen this in no other RPG, and I have not seen something even similer pulled off in the same way as Skies. Vyse, Aika and eventually Fina all are such wonderful personalities that believe in each other and no matter the odds have a tenacity and faith that doesnt end. If Skies had a motto it would be "Never give up". Something that I thought was wondefull when I played it. Maybe it just hit me at a time in my life when I needed it. Regardless, I realise it isnt for everyone, and maybe you just need to be in a certain mind set to enjoy it. It goes far beyond the average RPG, and even goes beyond some of the best RPGs in this respect. Thats why I hold Skies in such high regard, thats why its a top tier RPG in my book.
zidane, obviously you liked FF9? Keep playing RPGs in that vein, and try to stop dissing on others that aren't.
Z-roe
I'm going to concur with Rob about FF7. Most of Square's games are about as fun as a six-eyed demon that eats babies, but FF7 did everything for me, so much so that no other RPG has thus far equaled it.
Okay, that's the first place where you're wrong. FF9's zidane cared a lot about his friends, to the point of risking his life to save their's.Even in the beginning, in the Evil Forest, he still fought bravely. Trust me, the main character who "loves and cares for everyone" has been done before, and better too.Quote:
Originally posted by Z-roe
Vyse cares.. I have seen this in no other RPG
How? With it's massively cliched storyline? Or the run of the mill battle system? Come on, what Skies TRIED to do was improve on already existing RPG concepts, and it didn't even do that right. It was so bland all the way through, it was sickening. And yes, I beat it, and no, FF7 wasn't the first RPG I've played. I've been playing RPG's since the early FF days, and haven't looked back. Besides, who wouldn't guess that Fina would've joined them at the end? Survey says......overused RPG cliche!!Quote:
It goes far beyond the average RPG
What the hell does that mean? Just because my name is the same as the character from FF9, means that I judge all RPG's under it? First of all, the name zidane that I use is from a French soccer player, NOT the main character from FF9. I've had this name since 1998. So your arguement is moot right there. Second, you don't have to attack me because I didn't like a game that you hold higher in regard to life itself; it's not my problem you don't like FF7. Just because you don't like it, does that mean that I can't play it? Hell no! Besides, while it had some RPG cliches(although not as nearly as much as Skies), FF9 tried out some new concepts while building upon the FF's of old. Name one thing that Skies did that wasn't in any other RPG. Please. I'm in the mood to laugh right now.Quote:
zidane, obviously you liked FF9? Keep playing RPGs in that vein, and try to stop dissing on others that aren't.
*sigh*
Im not trying to get in an argument with you man, Im saying why I liked Skies. Dont worry though, I'll post later today so that you can "laugh".
I didnt mean that you judge all RPG's by FF9. I meant that you like it, its diffrent than skies, so maybe you should fucking stick with that type of RPG instead of playing through one you dont like and crapping all over it on a message board.
Z-roe
This should be fun. ^_^Quote:
Originally posted by Z-roe
*sigh*
Im not trying to get in an argument with you man, Im saying why I liked Skies. Dont worry though, I'll post later today so that you can "laugh".
Okay, first of all, who are you to tell me what I like and don't like? And how am I supposed to know if I like it if I only play about 15 minutes of it? I played it to the end because I knew I'd have no right judging a game I didn't beat. Finally, what am I supposed to do on a message board, not complain about games I don't like? Okay, I get it. I'm sorry everyone, for expressing myself about something. I'll just continue to like every single game that is released, because if I did otherwise, it would anger all of you, who don't dislike any games at all. My apologies.Quote:
I didnt mean that you judge all RPG's by FF9. I meant that you like it, its diffrent than skies, so maybe you should fucking stick with that type of RPG instead of playing through one you dont like and crapping all over it on a message board.
Ass.
I think some of these people are holding on to the notion that "first = best." I understand that if you have never played a particular genre before, and then go and pick up a game included in that genre, and fall in love with it, it holds a certain weightyness when compared to others in that genre; however, there are better games out there.
I also understand that by saying a different game in that genre is better, you feel as though you may be "betraying" that original game that sparked your interests in the first place.
These notions need to be thrown on the floor and stomped on until they die.
Zidane747. I like you, man. But you've got to realize that Skies has a far better story than Final Fantasy 7.
No. With it's massivly original storyline that takes advantage of certain RPG cliches. Allow me to demonstrate:Quote:
With it's massively cliched storyline?
Cliches:
-Atifacts of mass destruction sought after by Mr. Badguy to destroy/control the world.
-Daughter/son of evil king/queen, or a former member of the enemy joins your team.
-It's not really the king/queen's fault, it's their evil general/visir/counselor
-A young person is the "only hope left for humanity."
I could go on, and on, and on, and on.
Now, look at the cliches I've mentioned and apply them to any other RPG. I garauntee the shoe fits.
Do you know what this does? It makes it so we cannot compare RPGs based on this criterion alone. If we did, they'dd all be the same. This is the mistake you make when comparing SoA to FFVII. And it's the same mistake Rob makes when comparing Star Ocean 2 to FFVII. You take it down to the most basic, fundamental level. You just can't do that. You need to start the comparison with them, but then compare how each RPG expounds on any given idea. I'll take those same cliches and show you just how different SoA, FFVII, and Star Ocean are:
SoA:
-Artifact: The large boss creatures you fight in each land. They were weapons of mass destruction used to hold each of the other continents at bay. The villian sought them to control the world.
-Former enemy come friend: Enrique, the Prince of Valua. The Valuan army is the force driving the discovery and use of the artifacts. Disenchanted with his mother, the Queen, he ceases the opportunity to escape when the Blue Rogues make an escape from the Valua capital. He gives Vyse the fastest, most well equiped and armored ship in the Valuan armada...his own.
-The ruller's councelor: Galcian. Highest general of the Valuan army. He seeks the artifacts for himself to rule the world, unbeknownst to the queen he serves. Aided by the traitorious Ramirez.
-Young person come hero: Vyse. The son of a well know Blue Rogue, Vyse aspires to be his father's equil one day. This plot thread is evedent throughout the entirety of the game. Everything Vyse does is another step into manhood.
And as far as the rest of the story: SoA is the first RPG to do the Pirate thing right. Unlike most RPGs, Vyse isn't alone. And I'm not talking "a handful of friends." I'm talking his crew, his father's crew, Gilder's crew, Clara's crew, And another baddie come hero (the female general whose name I forget's) crew, and everyone else he encounters on his journies aid him. It's a group effort. Everyone helps defeat Galcian and the Valuan armada. That is definatly not an RPG convention.
FFVII:
-Artifact: Mako energy. The souls of the planet + white/black materia. The concentrated lifeforce of all who have or will ever live. Sepheroth seeks this to undue existence.
-Enemy come friend: Vincent. A former Turk. Not an integral part of the story. You don't even need to recrut him.
-The ruler's councelor: Hojo. He designed Sepheroth, and Cloud, and all of the clones. He longs for Sepheroth to reach his goal, as he considers him his son.
-Young person come hero: Cloud. Suffers from "Square-syndrome," or self-doubt brought on by a myriad of different events, the least of which isn't finding out he is a clone of Sepheroth. Square-syndrome is always implemented in Square games. Zidane was a clone, Tidus is a dream, the whole bloody FF8 gang are orphans who's suregate mother was Edea.
I hope you'll pardon my not expounding on the story of FF7. I'm trying to convince you about this game, as I'm sure you know. :p
And finally, Star Ocean:
-Artifact: Energy Nede. An entire planet created by science when the original decided to blow up. The wisemen seek to control it.
-Enemy come friend: The head wiseman's niece.
-The ruler's counselor: The 12 other wisemen + the ruler himself.
-Young person come hero: Claude and Rena.
I can't really expound on this, as it's been an awful long time. Lil'help please. Anyone?
There. Even though I didn't flesh out Star Ocean, you can still see the major differences in SoA vs. FFVII. Next time you're looking to compare RPGs, don't judge them by what conventions they use, but how they use those conventions.
I dont like my posts with alot of quotes in them, so I'll just say what i want and hope you can match up my points as a response to what you've said.
First, the name thing. I dont think its terribly unreasonable of me to assume that you had that name in regards to a game being that we are on a game related board. If there is a game character named Z-roe, and someone assumes that I like the game, I'm not gonna go off on them because of that. Trying drinking caffein free coke between your sessions of masturbation at the Kojima poster shrine. Help ya calm down a bit maybe.
Attack you? Not in my original post, I simply stated that if you dont dig it, dont play it. You are perfectly free to complain about a game you dont like. You are perfectly free to say whatever you want that within the realm that the mods will allow. My problem here is that you say Skies is a peice of shit. Saying you dont like it is something diffrent to me than saying its shit. I really dont feel like getting into it right now as it all goes back to everything Ive already said back at the GO! boards when I made the thread, "Liking does not a good game make.". Basicly Im saying that if the game performs its basic functions and allows you do to what you want without an unreasonable degree of "discomfort" or broken "game laws", then its a game, not good or bad, just a game whos level of "goodness" is determined by the player. Thats all Im saying about that unless you really want me to go into it further.
Gee, sorry, you SEEM to like FF9. Pardon me. And you mean to tell me that in a game of 50+ hours you cant decide that you dont like it at some point before that 50 hour mark? Are you really that dense? I'm just curious on that one.
Its not what you have, its what you do with what you have. And Skies does some damn wonderful things with what it has. You made the comparison of Zidane to Vyse, and thats intresting because i made that same exact comparison myself with the diffrence in that I was showing why I didnt like FF9. Vyses strength comes from the fact that he loves his friends, that he believes in them and himself. Zidane, while he may care for his friends, gets his power from the fact that he is a genetic freak. I have never played an RPG that does what Skies does. I liken it to Star Wars for the fact that the basic story in Star Wars is a basic fantasy story. What makes it Star Wars so fantastic is the imagination of Lucas, added to the nuances that hange the basic fantasy plot. Really, the basic plot in Skies may have been done before, but never have I seen it done so well before. I've played many RPGs, this one does it for me. Its the nuances and twists that the scenario and story writers for Skies added to it that made the basic plot so wonderful.
Wow this is getting long. I think I'm gonna stop here for now. zidane, if you are trying to make an enemy, stop. I'm not gonna sit here and fight you with mental fists because it isnt worth me time or energy. Like I already said, I just stated why I like Skies, you disagree with that, fine, whatever. Dont make it into a personal attack. I finished my first post in this thread with a suggestion, how about another? Grow up.
Z-roe
Okay, even though that was directed towards me, that was funny as hell.Quote:
Originally posted by Z-roe
Trying drinking caffein free coke between your sessions of masturbation at the Kojima poster shrine. Help ya calm down a bit maybe.
Hey, I care for my friends, and am NOT a geneti......oh, you meant the FF9 zidane. Gotcha ^_^Quote:
Zidane, while he may care for his friends, gets his power from the fact that he is a genetic freak.
[/QUOTE]
I didn't write this for it to be ignored, damnit!!! ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
I think some of these people are holding on to the notion that "first = best." I understand that if you have never played a particular genre before, and then go and pick up a game included in that genre, and fall in love with it, it holds a certain weightyness when compared to others in that genre; however, there are better games out there.
I also understand that by saying a different game in that genre is better, you feel as though you may be "betraying" that original game that sparked your interests in the first place.
These notions need to be thrown on the floor and stomped on until they die.
Zidane747. I like you, man. But you've got to realize that Skies has a far better story than Final Fantasy 7.
No. With it's massivly original storyline that takes advantage of certain RPG cliches. Allow me to demonstrate:
Cliches:
-Atifacts of mass destruction sought after by Mr. Badguy to destroy/control the world.
-Daughter/son of evil king/queen, or a former member of the enemy joins your team.
-It's not really the king/queen's fault, it's their evil general/visir/counselor
-A young person is the "only hope left for humanity."
I could go on, and on, and on, and on.
Now, look at the cliches I've mentioned and apply them to any other RPG. I garauntee the shoe fits.
Do you know what this does? It makes it so we cannot compare RPGs based on this criterion alone. If we did, they'dd all be the same. This is the mistake you make when comparing SoA to FFVII. And it's the same mistake Rob makes when comparing Star Ocean 2 to FFVII. You take it down to the most basic, fundamental level. You just can't do that. You need to start the comparison with them, but then compare how each RPG expounds on any given idea. I'll take those same cliches and show you just how different SoA, FFVII, and Star Ocean are:
SoA:
-Artifact: The large boss creatures you fight in each land. They were weapons of mass destruction used to hold each of the other continents at bay. The villian sought them to control the world.
-Former enemy come friend: Enrique, the Prince of Valua. The Valuan army is the force driving the discovery and use of the artifacts. Disenchanted with his mother, the Queen, he ceases the opportunity to escape when the Blue Rogues make an escape from the Valua capital. He gives Vyse the fastest, most well equiped and armored ship in the Valuan armada...his own.
-The ruller's councelor: Galcian. Highest general of the Valuan army. He seeks the artifacts for himself to rule the world, unbeknownst to the queen he serves. Aided by the traitorious Ramirez.
-Young person come hero: Vyse. The son of a well know Blue Rogue, Vyse aspires to be his father's equil one day. This plot thread is evedent throughout the entirety of the game. Everything Vyse does is another step into manhood.
And as far as the rest of the story: SoA is the first RPG to do the Pirate thing right. Unlike most RPGs, Vyse isn't alone. And I'm not talking "a handful of friends." I'm talking his crew, his father's crew, Gilder's crew, Clara's crew, And another baddie come hero (the female general whose name I forget's) crew, and everyone else he encounters on his journies aid him. It's a group effort. Everyone helps defeat Galcian and the Valuan armada. That is definatly not an RPG convention.
FFVII:
-Artifact: Mako energy. The souls of the planet + white/black materia. The concentrated lifeforce of all who have or will ever live. Sepheroth seeks this to undue existence.
-Enemy come friend: Vincent. A former Turk. Not an integral part of the story. You don't even need to recrut him.
-The ruler's councelor: Hojo. He designed Sepheroth, and Cloud, and all of the clones. He longs for Sepheroth to reach his goal, as he considers him his son.
-Young person come hero: Cloud. Suffers from "Square-syndrome," or self-doubt brought on by a myriad of different events, the least of which isn't finding out he is a clone of Sepheroth. Square-syndrome is always implemented in Square games. Zidane was a clone, Tidus is a dream, the whole bloody FF8 gang are orphans who's suregate mother was Edea.
I hope you'll pardon my not expounding on the story of FF7. I'm trying to convince you about this game, as I'm sure you know. :p
And finally, Star Ocean:
-Artifact: Energy Nede. An entire planet created by science when the original decided to blow up. The wisemen seek to control it.
-Enemy come friend: The head wiseman's niece.
-The ruler's counselor: The 12 other wisemen + the ruler himself.
-Young person come hero: Claude and Rena.
I can't really expound on this, as it's been an awful long time. Lil'help please. Anyone?
There. Even though I didn't flesh out Star Ocean, you can still see the major differences in SoA vs. FFVII. Next time you're looking to compare RPGs, don't judge them by what conventions they use, but how they use those conventions.
Um, I agree. So, I cant really write more... sorry.Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
I didn't write this for it to be ignored, damnit!!! ;)
Z-roe
Well, Damn, We had some heated arguments in this thread :)
1. I haven't played Skies of Arcadia yet, so I cant really comment on it, or compare it to either FF7 or FF9.
2. I did like FF7, and it was a great game back in the day, and I had lots of fun playing it. Spend whole month when it came out, just playing it almost all day long :)
3. Zidane, and everyone else, You should try Shadow Hearts. I keep telling people to try it out, and many who do, end up enjoying it alot. Its a very fun rpg, with different than usual story and style, cool battle system, fun characters and monsters, lots of secrets, and its DAMN CHEAP too :) Go and get it today !!!! :)
Your list is really vague while mine dabbled in specifics. If you can attach a group of specific attributes to 2-3 main characters then you might have something. Until then, your "young hero saves the world" list doesn't render my comparison a mistake.Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
And it's the same mistake Rob makes when comparing Star Ocean 2 to FFVII. You take it down to the most basic, fundamental level. You just can't do that.
:eek:
yeah c'mon. dont ignore me too!Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonmaster Dyne
to say FF7 is different from any other rpg is dumb. to say FF7 doesnt force you to go town to town is dumb. BUT....now read this.....yes, at one point in the game (just like EVERY other FF) you can basically go anywhere do anything in any order (kind of) but for that first part you're still going town to town...and to say otherwise is being closed minded and moronic.
but lets just end this. Lunar and Y's own both games hands down. :D
Haha. I thought you wanted to be ignored. If you really must know, Dyne, I was referring to what makes the band of wily warriors trek from point A to point B. What I meant by forced was a useless, pointless objective that "forces" the story along. Your first sentence is dumb, so I won't address it with any degree of length or intelligence (there, I'm using your strategy). Happy?
Indulge me. Name those specifics again so I don't have to go digging through archives. Please?Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Your list is really vague while mine dabbled in specifics. If you can attach a group of specific attributes to 2-3 main characters then you might have something. Until then, your "young hero saves the world" list doesn't render my comparison a mistake.
:eek:
No, I washed my hands of that topic already, Captain.
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
No, I washed my hands of that topic already, Captain.
But, from what I can remember, those "specifics" you mantioned were pretty vague.
What I liked about Skies:
-EVERYTHING done in real-time(no FMVs here)
-the main hero actually HAS a family(you want cliche, how many heroes in RPGs have both a mom and a dad still alive to the end of the game?)
-ship battles, while pretty easy, were awesome
-huge environments with tons of little details to make them look more "alive"(e.g. Horteka)
-customize your own ship AND homebase
-get crew members to join you
-Gilder(anyone who packs heat in an RPG is cool in my book)
What I hated about Skies:
-the multitude of random battles(esp. in the South Ocean area)
-the POOR explanation of the elements(stupid manual didn't help either)
-the godawful dubbing(ALPHA STOOOOORM!!!!)
I like both Skies and FF7 on even levels.
Captain Vegatable pretty much hit the nail on the hed with that huge list.
Things Skies did differently? Lets' see, how about one of the coolest settings ever seen in an RPG? Name one RPG that even came close to SoA's level of vastness. It was nice to finally have a world map this open-ended and detailed as opposed to a big flat green terrain with a few mountains, buildings, and water scattered about. You didn't see that in SoA, you saw massive islands with richly detailed cities, forests, and deserts as you drifted through the clouds. The environments and settings was probably one of Skies best features, if only for the reason no RPG has surpassed this level of quality. How about the airship? Sure its not the first RPG with an airship, but name with with airship battles anything like this, even commplete with airship dungeons. And how about the main villians? Galcian may have been a little unoriginal, but Ramirez is way better than Sephiroth anyday. Sephiroth just acted like a mindless robot the while game, bent on destruction. Even his so-called "emotional" scenes were pretty damn static. Ramirez was the better villian, because he was so human. One of the few villians I've ever felt for. Why is that? Because he wasn't some emotionless robot like Sephiroth or a heartless maniac like Kefka, he had genuine heart and soul, and was driven over the edge by rage, much like any human would be. To this day a fantastic characer through and through.
Except for that name...Quote:
Originally posted by Rick
To this day a fantastic characer through and through.
What's wrong with "Ramirez," I ask you?
It's a real world name! Vyse, Fina, Aika, Galcian, and Gilder are fine. Even a few real names are fine, as long as they aren't high profile, like Claudia. But everytime I hear "Ramirez" I am forced to think of Highlander.Quote:
Originally posted by Rick
What's wrong with "Ramirez," I ask you?
Hey Captain Vegetable - shall we argue about Ramirez's name?
-Joke
Actually I agree - the name was too Spanish for a game that captured 'another worldy feel' so well.
First of all, Tales of Destiny sucks. We all know that(At the very least those of us who played ToP remake know that). It's the black sheep of the series. It's got a crappy story with lots of filler, a broken combat system, and the encounter rate from hell. That's probably why I didn't use it as an example. I was talking about Tales of Eternia, and you seem awfully quick to judge a game you've never touched, and base your judgement of the "series" on the rushed bastard child. I'm not basing my claims on FF7 on FF2 (jap) despite the fact that FF2 is the single most incompotent and unplayable RPG ever.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
You can treat it like a fact all you want, but if Tales of Destiny was any indication, I'd be quite bored to tears. The series seems stuck in 1995.
Wow, I can't wait to be bored by the "clever" and "memorable" puzzles. I don't like Tales games, sorry.
Any RPG can be beaten if you level up and have the right equipment.
Furthermore, what I meant to say is that, while you can overlevel to make any RPG easy, in a skill based system you can avoid the need to do this with well played strategy. FF7 is very shallow game. None of the dungeons provide any semblance of challange (Grandia II comes to mind), made only worse by the fact that the combat system is the same craptacular system they used in 1988 with a couple unimportant modifications. The gameplay is not special. For those of us that beleieve a deep skill-oriented combat system, and quality level design are the things that make an RPG good, then FF7 isn't going to fit the bill.
We agree! What a shame. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Nikorasu
Hey Captain Vegetable - shall we argue about Ramirez's name?
-Joke
Actually I agree - the name was too Spanish for a game that captured 'another worldy feel' so well.
You have issues with how people, opinions, and personalities work. Help is on the way.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
This is one of the few times I'll ever say this, but if you don't like FF7, you have shitty taste.
Weren't there a bunch of characters in SOA with Spanish names? Weird.Quote:
Originally posted by Nikorasu
the name was too Spanish for a game that captured 'another worldy feel' so well.
zidane:
I'm with you in that I think it's an overrated game.
The story was cliche anime-ish, and anyone who has much exposure to Japanese storytelling could easily predict what would happen next. However, the story was told well, with less cheese IMO than FFs. At any rate, the story flowed well. Whether you like it or not is up to debate.
I didn't think the characters were entirely generic though. Although based off of typical archetypes, they were developed far more than most RPG characters.
And battles... "Run of the mill battle system"? How on earth did you come to that conclusion? For the normal battles, I thought the spirit meter was a great concept. Yes it has its flaws, and can be abused about halfway through the game, when some spells are just too powerful. But for normal random battles, the game played like any FF. But for boss battles, I thought the battle system really came to shine. Despite all the flaws earlier, that whole entire-team-shares-one-meter made it a constant decision-making process. "Do I attack this turn or should I forego my attack in order to charge up the Spirit Meter so that someone can cast a great spell next turn?"
Then there's the battleship battles, which were more akin to a game of chess than "run of the mill".
Rob/Sidez:
I completely disagree with your stance on CG cinematics. I love the Grandia series in part because it doesn't go down that route. FMV is such a cop-out, IMO. I would rather see images of animated sprites doing things real time. Like when Justin kicks the fence near Feena's house. Or watching the Teikokukagekidan halt trains with their koubu in Sakura Taisen. Or seeing all the moogles follow Eiko around in FFIX. It's all about those moments. Anyone can make FMV... but to use the existing engine creatively is what I personally look for.
Sidez:
Arcadia has dated graphics? *scratches head* Well, maybe when you put it against FFX. But when it came out, I thought it was pretty darn impressive graphically.
And while FFX was a step in the right direction, with the whole new Sphere board system, it still reeks of the horrible Final Fantasy engine. Here's hoping FFXII will revamp everything.
Here's my Skies of Arcadia story:
Bought it when it was new, only because it was an RPG on the Dreamcast. I usually hate RPGs, but I wanted to support the DC, and Skies seemed like it might be worth playing (even to an RPG hater). I started it off, got about 15 hours into it......then quit. The random battles were annoying, the dub was annoying, it was just bugging me.
Sold it to a friend.
Flash forward: One day I had this tune in my head that I couldn't identify. Finally remembered it was the pipes theme from Vash's home base. Got to thinking about the game some more, and was shocked to discover I'd actually sold it. Making a long story short, I bought it again, played through, and loved every moment.
And I hate RPGs. Not only is it one of five I've ever played till the end, I actually bought it TWICE.
Yeah, it's got shortcomings, but damn, it's a work of art.
BioMechanic... that makes me all *sniff* teary eyed...
:( crying smiley... but in a good way
Z-roe
Well, as evidenced by my previous post, I'm sorry Z-Roe, my apologies. I was just under stress because of the Regents test I had to take, but now that I'm done and SCHOOL'S OUT(!!!!), I'm fine again. Again, so sorry Z-Roe. Friends?
Skies of Arcadia is enchanting, but the random battles really kill any sustained enchantment:D
and its been said before; but once you enable Aika'a LamdaBurst, the battles have no purpose other than to drag out the length of the game.
Skies of Arcadia the coolest game I've played or seen in a long time, but the game as a game, sure ain't all that. And in the end I'd take sliced bread over Skies of Arcadia if the dilema presented itself.
What I wouldn't give for an OST...the intro and title themes are beautiful.
I would go as far as saying Skies even beats out FF9, but that's my own love talking.
Ergh...I'm going to skip reading the last eight pages of squabbling and just reply.
Skies of Arcadia had some great ideas, gorgeous environments, incredible dungeons, and some really good parts in its story.
It also had completely flat and juvenile characters, and hour after hour of pointless fights which in the last 30 hours of the game boil down to:
"LAMBDA BURST!!" -> You win!
Worst of all, though, is the cut and paste nature of the storyline and theme - how many times does this game have to rip off Final Fantasy? The last villain was even a sad Sephiroth wannabe. From gathering crystals to airships to tamagotchi raising to all the different races you've saved coming to help you at the end against an unbeatable foe, all the designers of this game did was put the FF scripts in a blender and come out with Skies. If you think it's the best rpg of all time, you should probably play some more...I guess the most telling fact of my experience with this game is that it took me 6 months to plow through.
FF7 was great, but personally I'd put IX and VI ahead of it. I'd also put the Suikoden games, some of the Dragon Warriors and Legend of Dragoon (best battle system ever, dangit!) ahead of it too, but that's just me...
Its cool, I just assumed you were sick of the six pages of squabling and since I was the last poster you went off on me. S'all good.Quote:
Originally posted by zidane747
Well, as evidenced by my previous post, I'm sorry Z-Roe, my apologies. I was just under stress because of the Regents test I had to take, but now that I'm done and SCHOOL'S OUT(!!!!), I'm fine again. Again, so sorry Z-Roe. Friends?
Z-roe
Quote:
Originally posted by Z-roe
Its cool, I just assumed you were sick of the six pages of squabling and since I was the last poster you went off on me. S'all good.
Z-roe
Great, I'm glad that's resolved.
Where I love it just because it's a great game. And it does use FMVs.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
I love the Grandia series in part because it doesn't go down that route. FMV is such a cop-out, IMO.
Anyone can make FMV? Really? Good ones? No. Using the existing engine is an unnecessary restriction.Quote:
Anyone can make FMV... but to use the existing engine creatively is what I personally look for.
It's not "slack" that you're purposefully giving it that I'm refering to, it's that the game took up residence in your subconcious mind and affects the way you think about it. It's happened with plenty of games to me (still does). You respond more closely to the characters in FFVII because they were some of the first RPG characters that you cared about (or at least that's what I'm guessing from how you've discussed it. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on this), and so even if better characters came along, there'd still be a "special place" (for lack of a better term) for the characters in FFVII.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
No. No game gets slack for being "the first." You wouldn't find any of the first games I played on my list of favorites because they've all been outclasses by numerous games. FF7 hasn't.
Fair enough. Impass has been reached. :)Quote:
I'm not even going to respond to the other bit because I disagree completely and there's no changing your mind (nor would I want to) or mine.
And labeling Valkryie Profile as a "gamer's RPG" is perhaps a bit pretentious, but the fact remains that not only is it the most original console RPG since they were first made (obviously the first would be more original :p ), but it's excellent! It tosses out the window what almost every other RPG does and replaces it with something fresh, it also has one of my favorite battle systems ever! I'd place it above FFX's, even.
You know what really got to me in FFIX? Not just Zidane caring, but the way he affected everyone around him, to the point where they all risked their lives just to show to him how much they cared. I loved that.Quote:
Originally posted by Zidane747
Okay, that's the first place where you're wrong. FF9's zidane cared a lot about his friends, to the point of risking his life to save their's.
That would be quite extreme. We're talking at least twice is many years and twice as many games between them. Tales of Destiny and Tales of Eternia (Destiny 2?) are close enough for me to be skeptical.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
I'm not basing my claims on FF7 on FF2 (jap) despite the fact that FF2 is the single most incompotent and unplayable RPG ever.
The rest is BS which gives me brain pains to look at.
I'd say something about the flow of the game and the horrible way the game stops to show you something completely different because Square likes showing off more then they do working on the actual games, but we already went over that.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Using the existing engine is an unnecessary restriction.
And yes, that was my pathetic way of bringing that point back up.
Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
You know what really got to me in FFIX? Not just Zidane caring, but the way he affected everyone around him, to the point where they all risked their lives just to show to him how much they cared. I loved that.
Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth. The charismatic character of Zidane is great, and adds depth to the game(as I suppose Tidus does; can't wait to get FFX!!!)
It just isn't so. Some games I used to love I wouldn't want to touch today. I won't lie to myself just because I loved a game 5 years ago. It's still great and still stirs emotion in me (and not about "SPOILER" Aeris' death or anything like that, as I think I've become callous to it - it's mainly about the beautiful soundtrack and the places).Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
It's not "slack" that you're purposefully giving it that I'm refering to, it's that the game took up residence in your subconcious mind and affects the way you think about it. It's happened with plenty of games to me (still does).
I'm more in love with the FF7 world than the characters to be honest, but of course I like them. Lunar has far better characters, which I had played afterwards, and Xenogears and maybe Grandia as well had better characters, so there you have it: FALSE!!Quote:
You respond more closely to the characters in FFVII because they were some of the first RPG characters that you cared about (or at least that's what I'm guessing from how you've discussed it. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on this), and so even if better characters came along, there'd still be a "special place" (for lack of a better term) for the characters in FFVII.
The value of originality in a formulaeic genre like RPGs is really important. FF7's obnoxious conventions and it's lack of things that other RPGs had would never occur to you because it's the first RPG you really played.Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
And labeling Valkryie Profile as a "gamer's RPG" is perhaps a bit pretentious, but the fact remains that not only is it the most original console RPG since they were first made (obviously the first would be more original :p ), but it's excellent! It tosses out the window what almost every other RPG does and replaces it with something fresh, it also has one of my favorite battle systems ever! I'd place it above FFX's, even.
I have this same argument with Tales of Destiny fans. Alot of people I talk to adore the game, because they didn't play Tales of Phantasia or ToP remake first and they don't realize how unblanced the game is, how the battle system was simplified and broken, etc. It was new to them, so they were able to overlook these things, that I wasn't because I went into the game with expectations based on the first game.
Same thing again with Dragon Warrior. Never could play it because I played Phantasy Star fisrt, and couldn't take the step back. Even though I still consider it a classic I probably couldn't go back to playing Phantasy Star 1 even today.
I don't see how it's showy to want to bring the story to life, as much as possible. FF7 has a lot of game in it, more than any other RPG I've played, so that's quite PREPOSTEROUS. There's more gameplay variety in Gold Saucer alone than most RPGs have. Let's drop the lame-o shallow comments, now.Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
I'd say something about the flow of the game and the horrible way the game stops to show you something completely different because Square likes showing off more then they do working on the actual games, but we already went over that.
Eh, there's no way for me to truly say one way or the other for you, as I don't really know you that well, so your word alone will simply have to do for me. It was rather a stab at what might be, as I felt FFVII's cliches and cutout characters early on, but you obviously didn't (haven't) and so it's never affected you the same. I do love Squaresoft's steampunk, which was featured nicely in FFVII (and the train in FFVI was damn cool), probably another reason I didn't like FFX: the one design concept Square does better then perhaps any other company got completely discarded.Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I'm more in love with the FF7 world than the characters to be honest, but of course I like them. Lunar has far better characters, which I had played afterwards, and Xenogears and maybe Grandia as well had better characters, so there you have it: FALSE!!
Then why must the story twists be told in a different manner then the rest of the game? It deals with the flow of the game, like in Halo it's highly distracting to be playing "as" the character, with everything being done like that, and then suddenly you're torn out of the character so that the game can perform cutscenes in a way that's wholly distracting from the entire rest of the game.Quote:
I don't see how it's showy to want to bring the story to life, as much as possible.
RPGs tell a story, that's the main focus of them, to go through as characters and experience a story. If the game's major story points are always told in a manner such as FMV, why not go ahead and just make a movie, it's obvious they'd rather do that.And there's a very good reason why I never went to the Golden Saucer more then I had to, because a lot of that variety wasn't very good.Quote:
There's more gameplay variety in Gold Saucer alone than most RPGs have.
There are so many different parts of an RPG that this just make any sense to me. It isn't an action game or a platformer, there's nothing to be torn from. And like I said before, no one complains about separate battle scenes. That's much more jarring to the flow than any story telling device.Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
It deals with the flow of the game, like in Halo it's highly distracting to be playing "as" the character, with everything being done like that, and then suddenly you're torn out of the character so that the game can perform cutscenes in a way that's wholly distracting from the entire rest of the game.
Some would argue that point, in this very topic! A skill-based battle system is most important!Quote:
RPGs tell a story, that's the main focus of them, to go through as characters and experience a story.
You need to shake the illusions you've created for FF7. The game goes about telling the story in both in-game graphics and for the most dramatic scenes, where that just won't do, then FMVs.Quote:
If the game's major story points are always told in a manner such as FMV, why not go ahead and just make a movie, it's obvious they'd rather do that.
And they made a movie. It sucked, remember.