Smilebit vs. Treasure

i thought it might be interesting to pit the positive and negative aspects, and the games, of these two developers against each other comprehensively..

let's see..

Smilebit
of course, responsible for the critically acclaimed Jet Set Radio games, as well as recent and upcoming high-profile games such as Gun Valkyrie and PD-Orta, so they've been pretty big in recent days.. They don't have much history behind them, as they're relatively new, so they should obviously be cut some slack there.. sales-wise their games haven't been the hottest off shelves..
i don't know as much about Smilebit as i'm sure some of you do, so feel free to add things..

Treasure
as we all know, the ex-konami developers responsible for quite a few classics.. i'm not %100 sure, but i think Treasure started off around '92 and let loose with Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier then did a few other duds on the genesis, and then came back strong on the saturn with guardian heroes and RS and others.. more recently they've come up with sin & punishment, bangai-o, and a couple of forgettable PS2 games.. besides ikaruga in the arcades, and their new tiny toons games, they've been pretty quiet..
they don't heavily promote their games for some reason, and most of them are limited runs or sell rather poorly..
they also tend to be more appreciated in the US then in japan..


you guys can probably guess where my vote's going, but i'm sure many of you have conflicting opinions on both developers..
although this vote wasn't too hard for me, I am really looking forward to PD-Orta.. but who isn't? :)

Smilebit. Easily. JSR, JSRF, and GV are, IMO, much better than Treasure's goodness.

Treasure has a better track record than SmileBit I believe, but SmileBit does have a chance to prove otherwise depending on how good PD Orta is when it comes out. But between then and now, I say Treasure.

I love Guardian Heroes and Gunstar Heroes, but my vote goes to Smilebit. Sega Rally 2, JGR, JSRF, Typing of the Dead, Gunvalkyrie, PD Orta, Baseball Advance.

Smilebit has a total of one ho-hum game (Hundred Swords), which I personally like because it's not like another C&C RTS clone. They also have a series of sports managment sims we never see in the US, but are well loved (and well selling) in Japan. I think they have one of the best track records out there.

Smilebit games constantly thrill me. Heck, I was playing JSRF again today and I've probably got 60+ hours logged on that already. Treasure has had some games I enjoyed, but never to the level of enjoyment that Smilebit provides.

Smilebit all the way. I understand the Concept of Love. :)

Well, I love them both..... but Smilebit gets my vote, and I didn't even need any time to consider it. I love many Treasure games, but none of them are on the level of the Jet Set Radio series in my mind. JSR is so extraordinarily special that on it's own it's more valuable to me than most developer's entire catalogues..... Smilebit have made several other good games too, GUNVALKYRIE, SEGA Rally 2, Baseball Advance.....

I love many Treasure games as well. They're in my top 5 or at least my top 10 developers. But Smilebit is in my top 3.

:)

Both Jet Grind and Gunstar take wild ideas and wreck havoc with them...but I think Gunstar goes the extra length towards sheer gaming madness. Then you got Headdy, Radiant Silvergun, Silhuette Mirage, ect. Treasure for me.

Smilebit
Jet Set Radio 9
Hundred Swords 7
Jet Set Future 7
Gun Valkyrie 8
Typing of the Dead 7
Total: 38

Treasure
Gunstar Heroes 10
McDonald's 5
Alien Soldier 9
Dynamite Headdy 8
Light Crusader 3
Yu Yu Hakusho 8
Guardian Heroes 9
Silhouette Mirage 9(the import saturn one, anyway)
Mischeif Makers 8
Bangai-O 8
Radiant Silvergun 10
Rakugaki Showtime (haven't played)
Sin and Punishment 10
Silpheed 2 1
Stretch Panic 6
Ikaruga (haven't played)
Total: 104

Winner: Treasure by a mile

I like JSR and all, but Smilebit is largely unproven to me. JSRF was disappointing, and Gun Valkyrie was plenty fun, but not exactly a land mark. Smilebit is one of the most promsing new developers, but they've yet to prove themselves. They have potential, but it's not even fair to compare them the a company like Treasure who has made so many of the best 2D action games ever.

Also, Smilebit just did the crappy DC port of Sega Rally 2, not the original game.

oh, smilebit did the DC port of Sega Rally 2??

i didn't know.. but i liked the game a lot.. it wasn't a crappy port at all..

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Smilebit
of course, responsible for the critically acclaimed Jet Set Radio games, as well as recent and upcoming high-profile games such as Gun Valkyrie and PD-Orta, so they've been pretty big in recent days.. They don't have much history behind them, as they're relatively new, so they should obviously be cut some slack there.. sales-wise their games haven't been the hottest off shelves..
i don't know as much about Smilebit as i'm sure some of you do, so feel free to add things..

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Smilebit actually has quite a lot of games under their belt:
http://www.smilebit.com/jpn/game/gamesoft.html
(Yakyuu = Baseball btw)

DC:
Sega Rally 2
Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou!
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukour!
Pro Yakyuu Team de Asobou!
The Typing of the Dead
Jet Set Radio
Pro Yakyuu Team de Asobou Net!
Motto Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou!
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukirou! (Special)
Hundred Swords
Dirby Tsuku 2
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukurou Special 2
J League Spectacle Soccer

GBA:
Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou! Advance
Greatest Nine
J League Pro Soccer wo Tsukurou! Advance

XBox
JSRF
Gun Valkyrie

PS2
SakaTsu 2 ~J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukurou!~

Phew... vs Treasure's... oh... 14? games?

How many of those games are ports?

Jet Set Radio is amazing and all, but Treasure's been making great games for a decade. This shouldn't even be close, but with all the SEGA fanboys in these parts, I have a feeling Smilebit will win.

And yes, the SEGA Rally 2 port was crappy.

Ask me this question in another ten years when Smilebit has a library of games.

Treasure wins by quantity factor for now.

I love Smilebit, and this would be a tough desicion, but...

I'm an action junkie, and half of Smilebit's games are ones I really couldn't care less about.

Compare that to the company that convinced me to buy an N64 and Saturn, and have provided me with the greatest beat 'em up, some of the best platformers, some incredible shooters, and my favorite game of all time, and there really isn't much of a comparision.

But by God are JGR, JSRF, GunValk, and Typing of the Dead incredible.

Re: Smilebit's Japanese games

I really really really think I'd love those "Let's Make A Pro Soccer/Baseball Team" games if they were in English. I really like sim games and manangment games and sport games, and so those games have always looked really interesting and fun to me (much more so that something like CM3). One of these days I hope SEGA decides to translate one of those games and at least try to sell it in Europe.

Smilebit seems to know sports fairly well too; Baseball Advance / Greatest Nine is one of the best baseball games I have ever played. :)

I give my vote to Treasure.

Gunstar Heroes 10
McDonald's 5
Alien Soldier 9
Dynamite Headdy 8
Light Crusader 6
Yu Yu Hakusho 9
Guardian Heroes 9
Silhouette Mirage 8(the import saturn one, anyway)
Radiant Silvergun 10
Mischeif Makers 8
Bangai-O 8 (n64)
Bangai-O 8 (dc)
Sin and Punishment 10
Rakugaki showtime 7
Silpheed 2 1
Stretch Panic 6
Ikaruga 9.5

Sega Rally 2 : Ugly adaptation with a unstable frame-rate
Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou! (...)
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukour! (...)
Pro Yakyuu Team de Asobou! (...)
The Typing of the Dead (...)
Jet Set Radio : great
Pro Yakyuu Team de Asobou Net! (...)
Motto Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou! (...)
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukirou! (Special) (...)
Hundred Swords :just good
Dirby Tsuku 2 (...)
J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukurou Special 2 (...)
J League Spectacle Soccer (...)

GBA:
Pro Yakyuu Team wo Tsukurou! Advance (...)
Greatest Nine (...)
J League Pro Soccer wo Tsukurou! Advance (...)

XBox
JSRF : great
Gun Valkyrie : good

PS2
SakaTsu 2 ~J League Pro Soccer Club wo Tsukurou!~ (...)

And i'm waiting Panzer dragoon Orta (certainly a great game)

smilebit used to be Sega R&D3 (or some number, I just picked three at random), just like Overworks used to be R&D2. They were making games long before the Sega internal shakeup decided when that department got the name 'smilebit'.

I'll just have to say smilebit for my pick, I dearly want to get my hands on sin & punishment, but seeing what smilebit could do with gunvalkyrie was amazing..but they botched on the controls. I'd give that game an extra two stars if they had customizable controls and felt it was painfully obvious they needed to fix that, they must have lost alot of potential sales and fans because you couldn't pick it up and play, you wanted to do the opposite instead when exploration turned to frustration.

This is a silly, silly thread...













...Smilebit.

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Originally posted by johnk_
but i think Treasure started off around '92 and let loose with Gunstar Heroes, then did a few other duds on the genesis, and then came back strong on the saturn with guardian heroes

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Gunstar Heros and then a few other duds on the Genesis!? I can't belive you just summed up Treasure's entire 16 bit works as "Gunstar Heros and then a few other duds on the Genesis"!

Didn't Treasure have something to do with the original Contra and Castlevania?

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Originally posted by Korly
Didn't Treasure have something to do with the original Contra and Castlevania?

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Yeah, some of the Castlevania team, and most of the contra team are at Treasure now. Nearly all of the Super Castlevania 4 team is there. I beleive most of the Axelay team is as well.

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Originally posted by Frogacuda

Yeah, some of the Castlevania team, and most of the contra team are at Treasure now. Nearly all of the Super Castlevania 4 team is there. I beleive most of the Axelay team is as well.

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Maybe. Do you have any proof? Not trying to disparage you or this post but I find that most people have sources like unreliable conjectures or from reviewers (who have no proof themselves).

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Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Gunstar Heros and then a few other duds on the Genesis!? I can't belive you just summed up Treasure's entire 16 bit works as "Gunstar Heros and then a few other duds on the Genesis"!

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hmm.. fair enough, but what would you call Dynamite Headdy, that crap mcdonald's game, landstalker (or whatever it's called)..
and was there anything else i was missing??

excuse me for not calling those games masterpieces..

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Originally posted by johnk_


hmm.. fair enough, but what would you call Dynamite Headdy, that crap mcdonald's game, landstalker (or whatever it's called)..
and was there anything else i was missing??

excuse me for not calling those games masterpieces..

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:lol:
Landstalker!:lol:

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Originally posted by johnk_


hmm.. fair enough, but what would you call Dynamite Headdy, that crap mcdonald's game, landstalker (or whatever it's called)..
and was there anything else i was missing??

excuse me for not calling those games masterpieces..

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Dynamite Headdy gets really good in the later levels. I know it's a little deceiving at first (fooled me for the longest time), but trust me it's a real classic.

Also Yu Yu Hakusho Makyo Toitsusen is the best fighter onthe system (the 4 player is killer). And Alien Soldier is one of the best games... like ever.

As for Light Crusader and Mc Donald's, the MccDonald's game is actually good. As unsettling as that is, it's an above average game, but admittedly not a classic. Light Crusader does suck. Don't know what they were thinking.

But YuYu, Gunstar, Alien Soldier, And Dynamite Headdy are some of the best games on the system.

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Originally posted by johnk_
hmm.. fair enough, but what would you call Dynamite Headdy, that crap mcdonald's game, landstalker (or whatever it's called)..
and was there anything else i was missing??

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I seem to recall a little game called Alien Soldier.

Yu Yu Hakusho I can't comment on because I've never played it, but you forgot that one as well.

And Dynamite Headdy is an excellent platformer.

Where is the option of "I can name 30 other developers off the top of my head whose games I would rather play than both of these combined?"

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Originally posted by piku
Where is the option of "I can name 30 other developers off the top of my head whose games I would rather play than both of these combined?"

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Right under the option of "I don't really care about this poll, so I won't bother posting some pointless trolling remark."

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Originally posted by sleeveboy
Yu Yu Hakusho I can't comment on because I've never played it, but you forgot that one as well.

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Imagine Guardian Heroes with lesser resolution characters, only two planes instead of three, and no beat 'em up story (strictly the fighting arena). In short, you've played it's "sequel" if you've played Guardian Heroes. And GH is much better, though YuYu is damn good for the Genesis.

Treasure definitely. Because any developer that makes a game that has kick-ass transforming guys or guys who use mechs to transform or robots who combine with other robots to form a bigger robot... basically kicks ass.

As you can tell I'm a huge Transformers fan...

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Originally posted by SearchManX
As you can tell I'm a huge Transformers fan...

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I'm that and a Voltron fan. Funny that.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
I'm that and a Voltron fan. Funny that.

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Voltron was alright, but I started to get disinterested when every episode was some giant monster creature that gets his ass sliced in half by Voltron's sword... :) But Voltron kicked ass anyway, I wish I could find my Voltron set...

damn, sorry.. i forgot about alien soldier.. it's one of the games i've been meaning to play..

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Originally posted by SearchManX
Voltron was alright, but I started to get disinterested when every episode was some giant monster creature that gets his ass sliced in half by Voltron's sword... :) But Voltron kicked ass anyway, I wish I could find my Voltron set...

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Exactly, that's exactly why I refuse to watch the old Voltron episodes. I realize they're really bad, and so for that reason would rather have them stay the way they are in my mind, as quality entertainment.

But the fusion in Mischief Makers reminded me instantly of Voltron, hence why I loved the look of that robot so much.

I'm surprise by the number of votes for Smilebit. I must say that both companies are great and have done their share of stellar to not so good games. My vote goes to Treasure since I just love their games more.

Smilebit.

Why? I had a better experience with Jet Grind Radio than every Treasure game I've played combined (if it were possible to combine experiences).

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Originally posted by Rob
Smilebit.

Why? I had a better experience with Jet Grind Radio than every Treasure game I've played combined (if it were possible to combine experiences).

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Bwahahaha! Let me guess, you've never finished a Treasure game, have you?

My god... this is utterly innane. Both of these companies are wonderful developers with some great games and some bad games. I guess if it was necessary to pick one over the other Treasure would win just due to having a larger number of quality titles... but you know what? I think I'll take both please.

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Originally posted by Frogacuda
Smilebit
Jet Set Radio 9
Hundred Swords 7
Jet Set Future 7
Gun Valkyrie 8
Typing of the Dead 7
Total: 38

Treasure
Gunstar Heroes 10
McDonald's 5
Alien Soldier 9
Dynamite Headdy 8
Light Crusader 3
Yu Yu Hakusho 8
Guardian Heroes 9
Silhouette Mirage 9(the import saturn one, anyway)
Mischeif Makers 8
Bangai-O 8
Radiant Silvergun 10
Rakugaki Showtime (haven't played)
Sin and Punishment 10
Silpheed 2 1
Stretch Panic 6
Ikaruga (haven't played)
Total: 104

Winner: Treasure by a mile

I like JSR and all, but Smilebit is largely unproven to me. JSRF was disappointing, and Gun Valkyrie was plenty fun, but not exactly a land mark. Smilebit is one of the most promsing new developers, but they've yet to prove themselves. They have potential, but it's not even fair to compare them the a company like Treasure who has made so many of the best 2D action games ever.

Also, Smilebit just did the crappy DC port of Sega Rally 2, not the original game.

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Actually according to your scores Smilebit won... you are suppose to add up the scores and then divide that number by the number of games you scored otherwise a company could have a 150 games that scored 1 point each and still win :p

By your scores:
Treasure - 7.43
Smilebit - 7.60

Looks like Smilebit won to me ;)

Since I prefer Gunstar Heroes over any of the games made by Smilebit, you can guess where my vote would go to...

Doesn't Smilebit do the Panzer Dragoon series...

Nope, they're just doing the new Panzer. I believe it was Overworks who did the earlier ones.. but I could be wrong.

It was Team Andrommeda that did the Panzer games. They split up when their leader died, and the remnants went to various sega teams. The largest chunk went to simlebit, with some key members also at Overworks. I think a few are at Sonic Team now as well.

Not that it makes a difference, since Sin and Punishment proved Treasure can make a rail shooter twice as good as Panzer anyway.

As much as I like Smilebit, I can't forgive them for the poor Sega Rally 2 port.

Treasure for me.

You know, I never understood why so many people hated SEga Rally 2. I mean, the only thing wrong with it was the framerate, and not to the point where it was unplayable. Besides that one fact, it was a great game with a whole lot more depth than the first. If you don't like it that much, get the PC version. Much more stable framerate.

I didn't vote, since I literally can't decide. Smilebit, while not in existence quite as long (at least not in name) has done some fantastic work, yet Treasure has made some of the most enjoyable games I've had the pleasure of playing (Gunstar and Guardian Heroes alone make them Near-Gods of gaming in my book). So no pick for me.

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Originally posted by Frogacuda
Smilebit
Jet Set Radio 9
Hundred Swords 7
Jet Set Future 7
Gun Valkyrie 8
Typing of the Dead 7
Total: 38

Treasure
Gunstar Heroes 10
McDonald's 5
Alien Soldier 9
Dynamite Headdy 8
Light Crusader 3
Yu Yu Hakusho 8
Guardian Heroes 9
Silhouette Mirage 9(the import saturn one, anyway)
Mischeif Makers 8
Bangai-O 8
Radiant Silvergun 10
Rakugaki Showtime (haven't played)
Sin and Punishment 10
Silpheed 2 1
Stretch Panic 6
Ikaruga (haven't played)
Total: 104

Winner: Treasure by a mile

I like JSR and all, but Smilebit is largely unproven to me. JSRF was disappointing, and Gun Valkyrie was plenty fun, but not exactly a land mark. Smilebit is one of the most promsing new developers, but they've yet to prove themselves. They have potential, but it's not even fair to compare them the a company like Treasure who has made so many of the best 2D action games ever.

Also, Smilebit just did the crappy DC port of Sega Rally 2, not the original game.

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Quite an unfair way to judge this, as Treasure has way more games than Smilebit so will obviously have more points, regardless of how many crappy games they made.

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Originally posted by Frogacuda


Not that it makes a difference, since Sin and Punishment proved Treasure can make a rail shooter twice as good as Panzer anyway.

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If I remember, there was just as much if not more Nintendo in that game than Treasure but I disagree anyway. Orta is a better game than S&P.

ºTracer

I just got my Sin & Punishment in the mail today (Thanks again Phoenix Angel Wing!!!), so it may have the "Cool New Game" edge, but I'm going to have to say that S&P kicks PDO in the teeth.

If S&P were made for the XBOX, and had all the audio pinash and graphic flare as PDO, you'd be singing a different tune, Tracer.

S&P, by comparison, is much more deep. IMHO.

oooohh i dunno.

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Originally posted by Tracer
If I remember, there was just as much if not more Nintendo in that game than Treasure but I disagree anyway. Orta is a better game than S&P.

ºTracer

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Ugh. I hate debating the Treasure vs Nintendo thing on S&P. The credits for the game are known. Atsumoto Nakagawa (Treasure) did the vast majority of the programming and game design. Hiroshi Iuchi (Treasure) designed all the locales, and did all the background art, and Yasushi Suzuki (Treasure) did all the character and enemy design. Nintendo did things like camera sequencing, cinema scripting, voice acting, and a couple levels. Treasure's emplyees were the main ones in positions of creative control. This is not debatable. Not thatI mean to deny R&D1. They're a wonderful team,a nd my favorite Nintendo dev, but the game is far more Treasure styled.

And the game is also much better than PDO in my opinion. It has much more complex gameplay mechanics, and much tighter and more character control, while still having comperable firing control. It forces you to control offense and defense independantly and simltaneously. It's like Space Harrier and Panzer in one, with a host of innovative moves, bosses and levels that just blow anything else in the genre away. PDO is a good second place, but it is by no means as good as S&P.

any particular reason for digging this old thread up, omni?

Wario Land!

Treasure rules all!

btw, I like apples

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Originally posted by johnk_
any particular reason for digging this old thread up, omni?

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It got randomly bumped up. The board is screwy like that.

Pff, well... I guess I'm alone in my contention. Not like I'm not used to it. I'm likely the only person who like Blinx here too :/ Guess I'm getting wierd(er).

ºTracer

I gotta go with Smilebit. They've made more games that I've enjoyed than Treasure has.

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Originally posted by Tracer
Pff, well... I guess I'm alone in my contention. Not like I'm not used to it. I'm likely the only person who like Blinx here too :/ Guess I'm getting wierd(er).

ºTracer

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No, you are not alone. I prefer Orta to Sin and Punishment too. Something just feels right about that game. I've played both, but for some reason, I've derived more enjoyment out of Orta than I have ever found in S&P (and its not because of the improved graphics and sound either). Both are fun, but Orta is the that has me coming back for more.

As much as I love Treasure I haven't really played Treasure I've liked since Radiant Silvergun, where as Smilebit still keeps pumping out the hits. So for now I'll have to say Smilebit.

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Originally posted by Sidez
It got randomly bumped up. The board is screwy like that.

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I think threads get bumped up whenever someone votes.

I'm a huge fan of nearly every Smilebit game...but its really not a fair comparison. Unless you want to dig out games that Smilebit "might" have done before they were called Smilebit, its got to be Treasure. They've been making high-quality games for 10 years...Smilebit (as we know it) has only been around for 4 years.

See sig.;)

I have to go with Tresure

Favourite games of Smilebit director Mukaiyama: Alien Soldier and Sin and punishment.
Close personal friend of Treasure president.

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Originally posted by Almaci
Favourite games of Smilebit director Mukaiyama: Alien Soldier and Sin and punishment.
Close personal friend of Treasure president.

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Interseting... more Sega ties...

The lead programmer of Sin and Punishment and Ikaruga was also the lead programmer of NiGHTs. Treasure seems well connected.

Yeah.
During my interview with them a lot was said of the record and a lot was said for a print magazine, ill ask permission from the print mag to publish the interview here as well after the mag is on the newsstands.