Go, Economy!

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

it might be something simple like empathy. Growing up in a poor state, going to normal schools, I'd like to help poor southern schools.

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And that empathy towards other people is why you will never make the sort of money that would have individual meaningful impact on the things you are attempting to help.

Ford was a genius inventor and revolutionary. They is a small fraction of the people making those levels of money.

It's almost self defining. Being willing to break rules that hurt everyone is an amazing way to make money, therefore those with money are often willing to hurt everyone.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Sure, we know that. But that is only the outcome. What is the cause? How did we go from a country with industrialists that built public libraries, offered on the job training and paid workers more than average (ford) to a country where no one wants to do any of that?

And when did the change happen?

Was it the 80s? Was it the 90s? Was it maximizing-shareholder-value ?

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This is a tough question. Keep in mind that wealth was broadly spread as late as the 1970s. The change in culture and business didn't really happen until the late 1970s and early 1980s, and has only increased over time.

My opinion is that it coincides with the fall of the USSR, as the capitalist system no longer had to compete with the communist one for hearts and minds. It's a fact that FDR worked very hard to convince power elites that they couldn't hole up in their mansions while the masses were starving outside, lest we stage our own Bolshevik revolution.

Of course that's only one possible factor of many, but I think it is overlooked. Others - people revolted against the riots and protests of the 1960s, ushering in a "law and order" era that benefitted the right. Working class whites stopped supporting the Democratic party in the late 1960s. Business attitudes shifted as you point out. Debt became a bigger factor in personal finance in the 1970s - allowing us to paper over stagnant income growth with cheap credit.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

This is a tough question. Keep in mind that wealth was broadly spread as late as the 1970s. The change in culture and business didn't really happen until the late 1970s and early 1980s, and has only increased over time.

My opinion is that it coincides with the fall of the USSR, as the capitalist system no longer had to compete with the communist one for hearts and minds. It's a fact that FDR worked very hard to convince power elites that they couldn't hole up in their mansions while the masses were starving outside, lest we stage our own Bolshevik revolution.

Of course that's only one possible factor of many, but I think it is overlooked. Others - people revolted against the riots and protests of the 1960s, ushering in a "law and order" era that benefitted the right. Working class whites stopped supporting the Democratic party in the late 1960s. Business attitudes shifted as you point out. Debt became a bigger factor in personal finance in the 1970s - allowing us to paper over stagnant income growth with cheap credit.

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Internationalization with countries that have weaker tax laws doesn't help things either.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

lest we stage our own Bolshevik revolution.

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Hey, I think you're on the right track here.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

Internationalization with countries that have weaker tax laws doesn't help things either.

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Which coincides with a rise in neoliberal economics in the 1950s-1970s. Whether that's because the people in charge wanted an economic system to benefit them or an attempt to address flaws in Keynesian economics that led to slumps... well it's both.

The problem is that this led to junk like supply side economics that is just a complete fraud.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

And that empathy towards other people is why you will never make the sort of money that would have individual meaningful impact on the things you are attempting to help.

Ford was a genius inventor and revolutionary. They is a small fraction of the people making those levels of money.

It's almost self defining. Being willing to break rules that hurt everyone is an amazing way to make money, therefore those with money are often willing to hurt everyone.

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Nothing will happen if you believe stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Nothing will happen if you believe stuff like this.

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Based on what? I will at best attempt to promote laws that reigns in the value of being apathetic to others.

I will certainly put my work into reigning in public goods market failure rather than hope all those who made it to the top through immorality will do a complete 180 and start helping out the community.

Oh and rep for diff, but spreading ect.

Edit: Completely unrelated, but in case nick reads this thread, can we reduce the number of people needed to spread by 1? We don't have as many people posting here as we used to.

Relevant as hell. Perhaps forgive the rich for they are victims of their own fortune?

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Originally Posted by Anthony

Based on what? I will at best attempt to promote laws that reigns in the value of being apathetic to others.

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You will never be rich as long as you believe that rich people are inherently something you are not. You will never participate in politics as long as you believe that politicians are something inherently you are not. Etc, Etc.

You have defeated yourself before you have even started. You've convinced yourself to not even try.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

You will never be rich as long as you believe that rich people are inherently something you are not. You will never participate in politics as long as you believe that politicians are something inherently you are not. Etc, Etc.

You have defeated yourself before you have even started. You've convinced yourself to not even try.

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I think you are probably right, it's likely that I won't be rich and won't be a politician. I also probably won't be the one who solves any of these massive problems.