Welcome to Illegal Immigration.
They come here and bilk our nation.
We try to kick them out,
they just scream and shout,
and then they cause devistation.
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Welcome to Illegal Immigration.
They come here and bilk our nation.
We try to kick them out,
they just scream and shout,
and then they cause devistation.
There we go, 100% of Teh People have spoken.
That must be legally binding.
Got out of bed, wasn't feeling too good
With my wallet and my passport, a new pair of shoes
The sun is shining so I head for the park,
With a bottle of Tequila, and a new pack of cigarettes
I got a cousin and she got a friend,
Who thought that her aunt knew a man who could help
At his apartment I knocked on the door,
He wouldn't come out until he got paid.
Now don't tell anybody what I wanna do
If they find out you know that they'll never let me through, cos
It's no fun being an illegal alien, no
It's no fun being an illegal alien
Down at the office had to fill out the forms
A pink one, a red one, the colours you choose,
Up to the counter to see what they think
They said "it doesn't count man, it ain't written in ink".
I don't trust anybody, least not around here, cos
It's no fun being an illegal alien, I tell ya
It's no fun being an illegal alien, no no no no no
It's no fun being an illegal alien, I mean it when I tell ya that
It's no fun being an illegal alien,
An illegal alien, O.K.
Consideration for your fellow man
Would not hurt anybody, it sure fits in with my plan
Over the border, there lies the promised land
Where everything comes easy, you just hold out your hand
Keep your suspicions, I've seen that look before
But I ain't done nothing wrong now, is that such a suprise
But I've got a sister who'd be willing to oblige
She will do anything now to help me get to the outside
So don't tell anybody what I wanna do
If they find out you know that they'll never let me through, because
It's no fun being an illegal alien, I tell ya
It's no fun being an illegal alien, and it's getting me down
It's no fun being an illegal alien, no no no no no
It's no fun being an illegal alien, yeah yeah yeah
It's no fun (not much fun) being an illegal alien, I tell ya that
It's no fun being an illegal alien, I tell ya
It's no fun being an illegal alien, no no no
It's no fun (not bloody much fun) being an illegal alien,
It's no fun being an illegal alien, and that's what I am.
Hippy.
If you come in illegally you broke the law. End of story.
My family did it the right way. They almost came in illegally, but the boat that was supposed to take them 1.) left without my family and 2.) capsized on its way to the U.S., killing everyone on board except the captain.
Where's the box for "it's a complex problem with many systemic causes that need to be considered and addressed which point towards a call for a third option, due to the illegal job market's boost to certain sections of the labor economy"?
It was farmed out to a company that hired illegal aliens and as a result that option is no longer available.
It's not there because that's a bullshit response.
It's a yes or no question. Did they break the law or didn't they?
So clearly, it is a lucrative option that we want back for AMURICA, which of course is for AMURICANS.
That's not the question at all. Of course they broke the law, that's not being debated. It's "what do you suggest we do about it?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Kill the suppliers of illegal immigrants work. Flip them over and expose them to legal remedies for MASSIVE DAMAGE!
I assume you can each think about it and then decide. No fencesitting here, mull it over and let fly.
They should be heavily penalized as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
If someone steals food because their family was hungry, does that make it ok? If a driver kills someone because he's speeding to see his child be born, does that make it ok? No, a broken law is a broken law and you should be punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
If you break in, no matter what your reasons, you broke a law and don't belong here.
Well they essentially shift the business costs of cheap labor onto the gov't without paying taxes to cover it. Illegal labor is hired, not paid taxes on (they don't pay taxes) and cost the gov't money to enforce the law, deport the aliens and bring suit against the company for cutting corners and hiring illegals in the first place.
Any medical services that the laborers need from the problems caused by moving across the border, or from whatever work they do, guess what, they're on the state too! Illegal meat packet slices arm in the slaughter floor? Emergency care, on the tax payers. Employer denies everything, pays no taxes, the illegal pays no taxes and the overall loss is ours while the company maintains a healthy profit margin from reduce labor costs due to lower wages over all and lack of benefits/med care.
Reminds me of this thread I made a while back, where there was some lively discussion on the subject. It might be a good companion piece for this one.
You guys dont know how many illegal immigrants would do anything to do everything an american has to do. Many many i know came to the states legally, and slowly, and unfairly everything was stripped from them.
So many of them WANT to get legitimate drivers licenses. So many WANT to pay car insurance. So many of them WANT to pay taxes and contribute to society.
There needs to be higher enforcement to really slow it down right now, but to completely strip and ship off people who have made their lives here, and people who could not contribute to the US because of bureaucracy bullshit. THATS bullshit.
I am a complete believer in the amnesty program, but thats also not to say that i would keep them all here. Many do have to go. For reasons of multiple law offenses, or abusing government programs.
So, everybody who drives 56 in a 55 should be fined (and it's always over $100) every single time? Even though 55 is painfully slow and would cause horrible traffic problems if more than a few people drove it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Everybody who crosses the street anywhere other than a crosswalk on anything other than a green light should be fined every single time?
Everybody who has teh buttseks in backwards Bible belt states should be arrested every single time?
Every single person who circumvented DRM on a CD they bought to put the music onto their Ipod should be fined whatever huge amount the law calls for?
Every single person who owns Japanese PS2 games and plays with a modchip or swap disc should cough up the DRM fines as well?
Saying something is wrong because it is against the law is retarded when so many laws are retarded in the first place. Come up with a better argument.
Except this is a much bigger problem than most of what you posted.
The difference between jumping a border and crossing a street should be clear to everyone.
To the topic at hand: If they're working and not causing trouble, I really can't complain that they're here. Yeah, lost tax dollars blah blah. Tackle the absurd wasteful spending our govt. does before worrying about lost tax dollars from illegals if you're really worried about tax money.
I was typing in response to "break law = automatically in the wrong", not comparing illegal immigration to jaywalking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Which should be clear to everyone.
See, I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Ri
I worked with a lot of guys when I did construction who did it the right way. In fact, it's working with them that has cemented my view on this whole topic. You want to see some hate for guys who broke in? Talk to a bunch of guys who did it the right way.
Rising health costs caused by a ton of illegals are in hospitals every day. I should know. My mom works at Cooper Hospital in Camden. Yeah, its a growing problem. So who do the hospitals penalize? The Health Insurance companies. Who in turn throw it back on the consumer. Wanna know why other countries have lower health benefits for the average joe shmoe? Cause they don't have an illegal alien problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
But to ship everyone out that made it in before "america wised up on their fault" is like saying "hey we decided speeding is much more severe and dangerous then we thought, so we will now be sending new tickets to everyone in the last 20 years who has gotten a speeding ticket. They must report to their local jail to be probed and shipped off to buttfuck nowhere where we leave them with nothing mor ethen the clothing on their back."Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
You know how many of them would love to get and pay for a health insurance program? Or have an employer and government that would help them get one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Its a two way street.
My mother did it the right way. What did they US government do? They COMPLETELY STRIPPED HER of all her rights as the legal resident she already was and was granted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Now that i am 21 i can plea for her to get her rights as an american citizen. People who did it and were doing it the right way to fucked over as well. People who want and do contribute positively to the US should not be stripped and have their lives ruined.
I would love a million dollars. I would love to pay the taxes on it. I would love to get it insured.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Ri
That doesn't mean I can steal it.
I know a ton. Too bad the two way streets name is ... GET NATURALIZED.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Ri
Cause the problem is stemmed by them walking into a hospital withOUT health insurance. SURE, they want health insurance and it would be GRAND. At the same token ... they are sitting waiting for care, knowing full well they don't have coverage. There by it taxes the people that DO have insurance.
Kinda like if you walked into a restaurant and got a table. You order something to eat and when the check comes you say ... Oh no I don't have any cash. And you get up and leave. The Manager asks for your name and adress and you give him false info (happens a lot in hospitals). Then, a week later the restaurant has to raise its prices, cause not only you didn't pay. A crap load of other patrons didn't either.
I did it the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Ri
That doesn't sound like a problem with illegals, it sounds like a problem with health care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
First of all, WTF do insurance companies have to do with uninsured illegals? That's a sure sign of a health care system problem if I ever saw one.
Second, even if we boot out every illegal, that doesn't mean we won't be getting uninsured people at the hospital. Less of them? Yeah, but the problem is not solved.
So fix the problems with the health care system. Illegals are just one symptom in a much larger case. Wasting energy and money trying to kick them out isn't going to help the real problem with medical insurance costs.
This is such a huge problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I pay $200 a month in health insurance to make sure I don't get screwed if something bad happened to me. But if you don't live here you can walk right into a hospital, get treatment, and I'll pay even more money out of my taxes to fix your shit as well.
How wrong is it, that an American citizen has to pay his own way, but someone who isn't even legally supposed to be here can get a free ride? If I broke a leg in Japan and had no money, they'd let me die before they treated me.
You don't have to be illegal to not have health insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
This whole post has nothing to do with illegals and just says "people without health insurance put a strain on our hospitals patients".
And I agree with that.
But it has nothing to do specifically with illegals and is a whole 'nuther problem.
It was an example of one of many reasons why we need to fix the illegal alien situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
Rising Hospital costs, the over burden of county and state infastructure, the over crowded jail system; due to many illegals causing or creating crime aka car accidents. It goes on and on. Hell, my father was a landscaper and he hired illegals. I know their plight and difficulties getting in. I was one of them too. But I got naturalized and its a long process yes, but the end results are most gratifying.
Correct, but if you're an American citizen you'll be charged for the treatment you receive. See the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
No, it has everything to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
My Grandparents almost lost everything because of hospital bills after my Grandpa was hurt in the 80's. If they had been illegals, they wouldn't have owed a dime.
Again, this doesn't look like the problem is with the illegals being here, it looks like a problem with the health care system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Here's a crazy idea: If they use the hospital, make them pay! Just don't let them out the door. If they don't have the money, hand them over to authorities.
Or just don't treat them. Why go through all of the trouble of sending them back to Mexico to not treat them when we can not treat them right here?
Or just do exactly whatever it is we do when an American without insurance and not enough money shows up to the hospital.
I'm still going by what Lady Liberty says:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Thats a completely different issue. Make a thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
The authorities will deport them the next day. So they get free treatment, AND a ride home. Score.Quote:
Here's a crazy idea: If they use the hospital, make them pay! Just don't let them out the door. If they don't have the money, hand them over to authorities.
This is a good point. BUT, who are we as a kind, loving nation to just dump people in dire need of medical care on the curb?Quote:
Or just don't treat them. Why go through all of the trouble of sending them back to Mexico to not treat them when we can not treat them right here?
Oh wait...
An American with an SSN would get a bill a week later. When they are unable to pay it, the hospital and it's gang of lawyers go after them. Hello bankruptcy.Quote:
Or just do exactly whatever it is we do when an American without insurance and not enough money shows up to the hospital.
An illegal immigrant gets off free because we can't hold them in jail (more tax dollars wasted), can't sue them, and can't hold them responsible.
I like Savage's plan. Make Mexico send us one barrel of oil for each illegal we are supporting for each month they are here.
Eh, we're talking about people's lives here, not some music company exec losing some money because of DRM circumvention or something. I really want to be for deporting people... I just can't bring myself to agree with it. I think we really should punish the companies using illegal labor, not just say we're going to punish them and then be really lax about it. I'm talking shut the companies down completely. And we need to patrol our borders more.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
There is no way to force payments on someone without a SSN.
Funny how Lady liberty stands just in front of ELLIS ISLAND, used for LEGAL immigrant entrance.
I agree with everything Opaque has said. It's completely not right that as American citizens we have to pay for insurances, but illegals can get it for free.
I know from experience that the local authorities don't want to touch this issue. They'd rather tell us that it's too bad when an illegal hits our car and has no insurance.
I concur.
So... The main argument here is that they should go because when they're here we can't help but give them free medicine?
Illegals are a problem because we're too generous (but only with illegals so our own citizens are pissed)?
Sorry for sounding like a broken record, but this continues to sound like a health care problem and not an illegal problem.
I agree. It's ridiculous to compare health care to dining out; we can not simply let people die because they can't afford to be treated. EVERYONE deserves adequate health care as a right. Good health should not be available only to the rich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliander
I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but I don't know how much we're really missing out on from the $3 an hour/bag of fruit they pay undocumented farm labor. I'm not expert on tax law, but I figure most poor people don't pay too much in taxes because they don't earn shit in the first place. Undocumented immigrants fall into this category.
I also think blaming a segment of the population for the broken ass health care industry is off target. Hell, why not just blame black people for being institutionally impoverished?
1. Find problem.
2. Blame a random third party.
3. ???
4. ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED!!@
That's just one example.
We could also go into how our taxes pay for them, how they're taking jobs that belong to Americans and how they're using resources that are rightfully ours.
Deport a few million illegals and suddenly all of my taxes would go to my own services, job pay for low level jobs would increase and gas prices, at least around here, would drop. Not to mention traffic: there was a day a few years ago when no illegals went to work for whatever reason and ALL of the freeways in San Diego county didn't get congested for the first time in decades.
Show me an American citizen who is willing to work for $3 an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
There isn't one, but that job wouldn't pay $3 an hour if it was worked by an American.
It's called minimum wage.
NONE of the goddamn people in this town would EVER EVER EVER do strawberry picking thats done off of the El Toro Y and along the 405 in South OC. No one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Taking jobs from americans my ASS. Americans DONT want to do those jobs.
Because they pay so little because they're worked by people who don't fall under minimum wage protection.
There are people who would pick Strawberries for $8 an hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
Which is it? If you agree with Cheebs he said in one of his posts to not treat them. Now your saying we need to Treat them. Which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
My problem is that its a Right of all CITIZENS to get medical treatment. They are not residents or citizens. They are visitors. They are not naturalized, etc. Now don't get me wrong if someone is here on a working visa ... that's different. Or even if they have applied for naturalization, they have paperwork to show that they are in the process to becoming a Citizen. That's different.
My father paid each one of his workers 20 an hour. For 8 hours of work. He also paid out of his pocket for any medical bills they had. A lot of these workers don't get paid chump change, dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
It's not broken when the state and the county don't want to fix the issue, because they are scared of the backlash ... example ... this thread. There is no easy solution, but the laws are in place to get them out. And when someone says we should enforce the laws ... vaginas explode and the a debate occurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
They get the jobs because the companies hire them on the cheap. Would you be okay with my suggestion - to shut the companies down completely? Many of the legal Americans at those places of business, who had nothing to do with the decision-making process that led to the illegals being used, would lose their jobs. Sure, the same exact business would probably pop back up but there would be a HUGE unemployment surge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Also, I refuse to believe that the majority of illegal immigrants are here because they actively set out to defraud the system; they were lured here with promises of work and a better life. Shouldn't we be able to give that to them? If we make them citizens and they have to pay taxes, then they're afforded the same protections as us and, at least, the minimum wage.
And then you lazy consumers will bitch about how much your fucking grapes cost - with this solution or with naturalizing the illegals.Quote:
Deport a few million illegals and suddenly all of my taxes would go to my own services, job pay for low level jobs would increase and gas prices, at least around here, would drop.
LOL, that was a beautiful day here in LA. That, and those Jewish holidays where they aren't allowed to leave the house. I look forward to those days.Quote:
Not to mention traffic: there was a day a few years ago when no illegals went to work for whatever reason and ALL of the freeways in San Diego county didn't get congested for the first time in decades.
THEY TERK 'ER JERBS!!!! [/southpark]Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
and a big ol' war in Iraq and the retirement benefits of the governor's chronies and the senators $500 stapler and the representative's golf trip and...Quote:
Deport a few million illegals and suddenly all of my taxes would go to my own services
Protip: If the illegals left, other people would take those jobs and their spot on the freeway at rush hour.Quote:
Not to mention traffic: there was a day a few years ago when no illegals went to work for whatever reason and ALL of the freeways in San Diego county didn't get congested for the first time in decades.
Except then those jobs would pay taxes, which could be used to build more freeways.
You know, the way it's supposed to be.
Fixed. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
This country was founded by immigrants and most of them illegal or cast-offs. Funny how times have changed.
If they are already here you give them 6 months of state funded class to be able to pass our citizenship test and learn a skill, if they fail they go home. Give them six months to come forward as of Jan 1st 2009 or something.
Now, as for the future, anyone caught illegally in this nation after June 1st 09 is to be sent back to their country and a bill is sent to said country for the transportation of said illegal back to their nation. Think of the burden this would put on Mexico alone.
My ex-girlfriend was a Colombian who did it right, first by going to school then by getting a work visa. Her reward was a risk of being deported if her current job didn't pay for a new extended work visa at a cost of 3,000 dollars. So even if you DO do it right, you can still be sent home right now, which is just as bad as letting illegals cross the border imo.
I agree with Biff. (???)
Opaque, are you on ludes? If you get hurt in another country they'll treat you. I was in a car accident in England and saw a doctor after a 10 minute wait. No bill.
It would be the same in Japan if you broke your leg. Socialized medicine. It's humane.
We should deport all the illegal immigrants but we can't. There are too many. All we can do is secure the borders and deport future illegals as they cross over.
Sadly, Spo is right. That's likely the best chance scenario for our country.
Where are you guys getting June 1, 2009 from, anyway? I missed that bit. OMG Judgement Day happened even though we blew up Cyberdyne it was just delayed
You don't know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
A little off topic, but I think Oil companies should pay for at least half the cost of renovating/building roadways. At least half, they could probably pay for the entire U.S. road system and it STILL wouldn't put a dent into the billions of dollars those bloodsuckers make.
Back on topic, border control is vital. But, it's a two-way street. Mexico has to do something to help us out. Also, what Spo said.
Mexico will not help us with this problem. Ever. They hand out brochures about what to watch for when crossing illegally.... ridiculous. I wish they valued their citizens more than their drug trade.
Don't forget all those with a fake social security number are the #2 slush fund in this country, every dollar they pay in is never paid out to them. In fact you should thank them for supporting your parent's future so you can save your money for rock band songs and not for extra toilet paper for live in mother inlaws.
That's silly.
It simply accepting the reality of a situation. They are going to try to cross, so why not let them know how to do it safely.
OMG, that's like saying that teaching adolescents about safe sex and using contraception is moral!!1! Shame on you!!!
"how to steal, since you will do it anyway"
"how to get away with rape, since you will do it anyway"
"how to properly murder, since you will do it anyway"
Same line of thinking.
Meanwhile, at the flyer factory...
"Hey, what's all these leftover playground safety fliers? And where's that shipment of 'get away with rape' pamphlets?"
"Shit."
Found them, they were under the "How to have 12 kids by age 24 and live free" flyers.
And you could pay an American minimum wage, and they still wouldn't pick strawberries. Why do you think illegals are picking them in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
We had this very problem here with the local coffee industry. People here were shaking their fists at how the mayor of Lajas, one of the coffee-producing towns, was using legal Dominican immigrants to do the work. "They're taking Puerto Rican jobs!" they cried, conveniently ignoring the fact that he brought in the Dominicans because no one here would collect coffee for minimum wage.
Hell yeah, if an illegal comes into an emergency room with a heart attack or some other serious condition. Just let 'em die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
A lot of employers don't pay immigrants $20 an hour either.Quote:
My father paid each one of his workers 20 an hour. For 8 hours of work. He also paid out of his pocket for any medical bills they had. A lot of these workers don't get paid chump change, dude.
OKay smart guy ... who's going to flip the bill? Staying in the hospital is not cheap and the doctors need to be paid. AND I do know for a fact there are TWO reasons why Hospitals in America are expensive ... one; lawsuits. Two; Illegal Aliens who don't pay or have health coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I know that, but the point is ... I guess I'll have to spell it out for some. Not alot of people are being paid 3/hour for work they do. Get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Doctors should do it as a selfless act of kindness. And if they won't, the state should pay for it. Stop being such a selfish American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Showstopper
im presently experiencing my woman go through the citizenship process and in talking to many people (mostly hispanic) doing the same, a few comments...
- the majority spends more money trying to get here illegally than it would take to file the paperwork.
- the current turnaround time is 9-12 months for full citizenship
- there is nothing so pressing that the majority would need immediate entrance.
- jobs in mexico are readily available and can sustain a homestead for the time it would take to get a green card/work visa
- its the "have to have it now", "get rich quick" mentality driven by the "allure of the american dollar", and the "sense of entitlement" that they "deserve" to live the same lives as US citizens (direct quotes from legal hispanic immigrants)
this method of being a resident in this nation is unacceptable. follow the law, become a citizen.
these businesses paying less than minimum wage are breaking the law as well and should pay proper wage/taxes or even sponsor visas if they want workers from mexico
we are lucky to have oceans to the sides and a competent country to the north, or this problem would be much worse
No... people deserve medical treatment no matter what.Quote:
Hell yeah, if an illegal comes into an emergency room with a heart attack or some other serious condition. Just let 'em die.
However, instead of sending the bill to me in the form of taxes and insurance hikes, the bill should be footed by their country or their pockets.
No make me.Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
Hi squall, about time you showed up to the party.
Howdy. Things have been busy. Plus, I've already won this argument in the otherworld. Sometime before midnight logic will prevail, and the bleeding-heart crowd will drop the "You're just disingenuous" card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Mark my words.
I want that gun. Also, I accept the billing of the country of which they are from.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_N_G
So what would you do then? You've repeatedly insinuated it, but you've always come just short of actually saying it. If an illegal alien shows up at an emergency room in critical condition, you'd expect doctors and nurses to just let him die? Good luck getting them to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
If the work pays so well, why are there so many illegals doing it? The majority probably aren't making such great money, or there'd be more Americans willing to do the job. Get it?Quote:
I know that, but the point is ... I guess I'll have to spell it out for some. Not alot of people are being paid 3/hour for work they do. Get it?
So here is what I'm thinking and I mean no disrespect to advocate at all. I don't think his dad was firing off 20 dollars an hour and only had illegal workers. If he did then he was doing it to save the overhead of insurance, which is very high these days.
bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
check D_N_G's post. The answers reside in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
to be fair, a lot of shitty white trash do this tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
You're fucking high. I know people that have been here for years trying to become citizens. Also, I've worked in the restaurant business since I was teenager - I know illegals. Most would love to become citizens, but most can't afford it / would be turned away.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_N_G
It's not some wonderland where you fill out some papers and then everything works out. Most of the time it doesn't.
All this talk about hospital bills is disgusting. If someone's injured/sick you take care of them. Go ahead and raise taxes if that's what it takes to care for everyone. NOT ON MY DOLLAR! You greedy bastards.
no, im not high, the average turnaround time currently is 9-12 months, your friends must fall in that average on the high endQuote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
citizenships are in a major upswing and its actually going to be less time as we approach november. democrats push for new immigrants around election time as statistics show the majority start out on the liberal side
good for them, how much $ did they spend to get here? how much have they made since?Quote:
I know illegals. Most would love to become citizens, but most can't afford it
the current cost for naturalization is ~1k USD. hardly a high sum compared to the life they are living
they send every extra penny back to mexico to pay for ipods for their kids instead of doing whats right by law
turned away why exactly? no justification to be here?Quote:
/ would be turned away
have you checked what it costs to insure a family? currently i pay 800 a month AFTER subsidies for myself, a wife and 2 kids. greedy, lolQuote:
All this talk about hospital bills is disgusting. If someone's injured/sick you take care of them. Go ahead and raise taxes if that's what it takes to care for everyone. NOT ON MY DOLLAR! You greedy bastards.
on top of that there are copays, deductibles and a coverage limit. insurance for my family on the basic plan probably costs more than you make a year
You would actually have to battle a Samurai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
A couple things I noticed.
-When staying in japan for any extended period of time, you are forced to get health insurance.
-If Illegals lost their jobs, and were forced out of the country, its not certain there would be large unemployment. In fact, I would think it would be the opposite.
-If there was no possible market for picking strawberry's, then the market would disappear, and people would pick up new jobs and skills.
-As a general rule, if a large number of people come in with a lower standard of living, they will overall reduce our standard of living. This isn't ironclad though.
Its like when blacks moved to the suburbs OH THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD HONEY!
Thats exactly what I was saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destin
If they offer to fight you with practice swords instead of actual blades, for God's sake, take them up on it. They will fuck you up.
You should see what you have to do for a return visa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
They're based in different countries. Hell, most in different fucking continents. Don't think the government wants gas prices to be as high as they are. If they were strictly American-based, they would've regulated the fuck out of gas prices. Blame Venezuela and Arab nations who are wiping their asses with your $3/gallon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type Ryan
Weren't you adopted by high-middle-class white people? In that case, weren't you a non-citizen for a long time in this country? Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
So all whites are high middle class people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
No racist. I was adopted by Middle class people. No not high. And if you must know they divorced so shocker ... it was downhill from there.
I had a green card thank you very much. And during that time I had to wait to be naturalized ... cause you have to be 5years and older to do the verbal test. So, I did when I was 5.
I just remember what you tell me.
razor should be deported: legendary isnt a valid citizenship qualification
It's enough to get me into any country, no questions asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type Ryan
this is leading into a different topic, but here is a cost breakdown per gallon at the pump over time:Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html << link has breakdown and explanations
the actual oil company profits and costs per gallon is only currently in 2008 ~ -.08 to .26 cents (yes thats a negative sign) per gallon as a distributor, and if they have refineries (most gas companies do not) it has been ~ .11 to .44 cents a gallon
that means for that cents number, the oil company has to pay for infrastructure, run the entire business from R&D to IT, extract the oil, distribute and market it and then take profit off the top. its really not as much headroom as most people think. its the volume of consumption which leads to the profits.
the majority of the cost is the physical cost of the oil which has been crazy at 100 bucks plus a barrel lately
the govt really ends up being the winner as the taxes are static and dont fluxuate from high to low
a not quite so accurate graphical representation:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...reakdown-3.jpg
While the situation with illegal immigration is very serious, we need to also take a look at some of the citizens of our own. Oftentimes one can have a higher wage if they squirt out a few kids and life off of welfare than get a minimum-wage job. If these people won't work in an air-conditioned workplace, do you think they'll be out in the hot Florida sun picking berries?
The problem with deportation is we've let the issue get too big for it to be a viable solution. 12-20 million? You're talking about a major military operation on US soil. APCs rolling down your block. Anything less and they'll just come back as fast as we can send them out. And "securing the border" is pretty much a pipe dream; go ahead and pretend the coyotes won't adapt and see where that gets us.
No, the problem has to be solved the same way it was created: economically. Put some bite into employment enforcement. Heavy fines for corporations that hire illegals, and lengthy jail sentences for the specific individuals responsible. Make the risks of illegal employment far outweigh the benefits. When the jobs dry up, the illegals will deport themselves.
I don't have a problem with immigration, but if there were something to be done about it this is the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gas
This isn't technically true. It's a violation of policy, not law. You can't be prosecuted for it, it isn't actually a crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
I do think that our existing policy is stupid in that we should provide a legal path for these people to enter the country. People shouldn't have to sneak in just to come here. I'd be in favor of stricter enforcement if we had a more open immigration policy in general.
All the requirements of education and financial status to come here are really un-American in my opinion. I'm all for poor, downtrodden people coming here to raise families and make a better life. It's good for the country.You know, during the mid-1800s the Irish doubled the population of NYC in two years, and somehow that didn't run it into the ground. A standard of living is not something you "bring" it's something you make here, and they're as willing to make a high standard of living as we allow them to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destin
So tell me, how have illegal Mexicans lowered your standard of living exactly? I want a personal example.
How?
Yep, letting out a giant LOL as they wipe their collective ass with said bill sure would be a burden. (Same goes for the notion of charging them for the health care their people receive here.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Seriously, how do you expect to hold them to such a debt? Threat of military force?