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:stupid:
BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Figures you'd get stuck starting a new page when it matters!
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MWAHAHAHAHA!
;)
I take it you haven't discovered the custom settings. I've got 40 posts a page, so there's still a lot more stupidity to be had before a new one.
D'OH!!!Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I take it you haven't discovered the custom settings. I've got 40 posts a page, so there's still a lot more stupidity to be had before a new one.
This thread is sinking fast.
Anyway, it's goofy arguing things like story quality. There have been alot of good RPG stories, but it's a really subjective thing. I never related to square's stories, because I always liked more character driven stuff with some development and humor, but it's wholly subjective. We aren't going to get anywhere arguing about all the cliches and such because honestly, even my favorite RPGs haver their share of cliches.
All I can do is seperat gameplay and scenario from everythng else. FF7, for what merit it's story may or may not have, is a simple game. Valkyrie Profile, for what merit its story may or may not have, is a complicated game that takes some skill to beatw with a good ending. Some people prefer different kinds of story, and some people care more about depth of play. We all get different things out of different games. I don't mean it to be a hardcore vs mainstream thing. Dragon Warrior is widely considered the hardcore RPGers series, and I can't stand the games. We all have our biases. Depth and enjoyability of play and quality level design are the things I look for. An appealing plot and characters are what you look for. I won't claim that everyone would like Tales of Eternia's personality-driven story (though I liked it), and I would find it equally absurd for you to claim that FF7 has the kind of strategic play that I look for. That's all I can really say.
Square is a a one trick pony pure and simple. Ever since they stopped diversifying their gaming pallete they have produced nothing but shit year after year. Parasite Eve, Xenogears (even though they didn't actually develop it), Tobal 1 and 2, Final Fantasy Tactics, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross (to a severely limited extent), Rad Racer, 3D World Runner, Final Fantasy I, II(IV), III(VI) and VII these were Square at their zenith (I've never played Vagrant Story or Saga Frontier so I can't comment on those).
Ever since then they've produced nothing but half-assed garbage. Parasite Eve II (God, they TOTALLY destroyed that franchise), Legend of Mana (WTF was that about anyway?), The Bouncer (ugh), Driving Emotion Type-S (double ugh). And do you know what the utterly sad part about it all is? THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR IT TO BE THIS WAY!!! It isn't like Sqaure needed the money like Sega did and it's not for a lack of talent. It's the fact that all they are focused on is making a profit. The point of business? Of course, but NOT when the quality of the product you are selling suffers as a result of that focus.
If Sakaguchi would stop to pull his head out of his ass for a minute and realize that he's a crappy writer--or at least one who needs more than a year to come up with something other than a half-baked story--maybe he'd quit rushing the games out the door as fast as possible and actually make something good.
As it stands now, if Square keeps riding on the rail it's currently on they will find themselves in dire straits in three years time when people wake up and see them for the has-beens they will become. They need to submerge for a few years and start over.
It's certainly...uh..."inspired" by FF7, but I absolutely loved the atmosphere, the plot (some cool twists towards the end), most of the characters (I don't know why, I could understand people writing them off as generic, but for the most part they were characterized so well), the soundtrack (one of the best I've heard) but especially the battle system.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
I was with you, Captain, until you mentioned Legend of Dragoon, which pretty much is a shitty FF7 rip off.
By the end, pulling off some of those chains is pretty tough, but I loved that they were skill based and kept you involved in the fights; it was the only rpg I can ever think of where I actually found myself looking forward to random battles, knowing that every hit would go towards improving my characters. I felt like I'd lost something when I finally won it, which I don't feel for most rpgs...I'm usually just glad I've gotten it over with. I can't wait for the supposed PS2 sequel.
Er, anyway as for Final Fantasy, I think you're being way too picky by writing them off as bad games. They've got some great characters (especially IX), incredible soundtracks, they've always been some of the best looking games out there, tons of secrets, and incorporate ideas that take some messing around with to figure out, ie. Materia.
I also don't get where you're coming from with the "they all have the same story" angle, because they don't. You get Chocobos, airships, potions and Cid in all of them, but the plots themselves differ radically from installment to installment, except for the "you must defeat an evil empire" part.
I guess all I can say is I understand the reflex to reject something that's often praised by clueless 12 year olds as being the only worthwhile game on earth, but that doesn't mean they (most of them) aren't awesome.
Oh, and I always say "an rpg". Not gramatically correct, but it sounds alot more natural. Just like people go to "an NBA game", not "a NBA game".
I think they did actually develop it, but the majority of the team that worked on it broke off. Kind of like when a group left Konami to form Treasure, they were still part of Konami until they left.Quote:
Xenogears (even though they didn't actually develop it)[...]
Actually, I think that is grammatically correct. It's a name of sorts, a label for a genre, so it fits.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
Oh, and I always say "an rpg". Not gramatically correct, but it sounds alot more natural. Just like people go to "an NBA game", not "a NBA game".
It's way too late for me to go looking up sources, but I remember hearing once that it should be "a".Quote:
Originally posted by MechDeus
I think they did actually develop it, but the majority of the team that worked on it broke off. Kind of like when a group left Konami to form Treasure, they were still part of Konami until they left.
Actually, I think that is grammatically correct. It's a name of sorts, a label for a genre, so it fits.
And Xenogears...blarg. I bought it in march and I'm just up to disc 2 now. It's very ambitious and has lots of great ideas, but the fights are the worst - pointless, plentiful, and they go on forever. The story could have used some editing - like 5-10 hours of disc one. I have no problem with 2 hour long cinemas; quite frankly I can't believe they pulled such a thing off. It's the actual game that's driving me nuts. Every time I have to go to another dungeon, especially the ridiculous "guess where the ground's collision box is" mech-platforming ones that make you repeat the same leap of faith 50 times while getting in endless fights that make you build up the ability to do more than 10 points of damage to a 2000 hp monster....argh! And is there a point to magic in this game? I keep using Elly hoping she'll become worthwhile, but the only thing she seems to be good for is killing enemies who can only be hurt by ether. Love the villains though. They all rock.
Well, even if that's true, I'm not using it. Doesn't sound right at all.Quote:
It's way too late for me to go looking up sources, but I remember hearing once that it should be "a".
The main problem with Xenogears mech-jumping (easily the worst part of the game, though some claim the final dungeon is) is that in an attempt to hide the battle screen loading slightly, it actually begins loading right before a battle activates, but also deactivates your ability to jump while doing that. A rather bad flaw that really kills a couple areas, though aside from Babel I didn't mind it.
I rather like the battle system, I think using the combo attacks is fun, as well as learning all of them (the final ones are incredible!). And no, aside from occasionally healing (which usually you don't need to bother with in battle), magic doesn't help that much. Concentrate on combos and chain-combos.
And, um, to just make your life easier, I wouldn't count too much on Elly helping you later on. So don't worry about building her up excessively.