Popular Opinion of Skilled Gamers

I figure TNL would be pretty jaded enough to give some decent street-level opinion on this.

I've been feelin' the vibe for awhile, then that AVGN ZP debate followed by the guy's recent Smash review kinda summed it up enough to be worth asking.


Do you respect the gamer or look down on the gamer when he/she decidedly kicks your ass at something?

This is not to mean like losing to a guy who plays a single title 80 hours a week, is in a clan, and puts out replays. I'm saying people who may have taken time to read the manual or put 8 hours into a game during the first week of owning it, if those types of gamers are kicking your ass at something, do they really become "that guy?"



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If ya want the tl:dr version:
I remember my elementary school days of the late 80s when NES was starting out. I could tell you flat-out I was way more into gaming than I shoulda been, but I could also tell you just about every single person from friends to family really hated on me if I'd beat them hard on any game they chose. And even then, finding anybody to run multiplayer with on anything from a large group of friends even amongst themselves was a very rare occurance from then until the Goldeneye days. But even then, that was a fad along with a few other titles, then people graduated high school and nobody really did much of the gaming thing after that. Even me.

Now, the late 80s to mid 90s I observed public view of gaming as flat-out for dorks 'n nerds only. Then through PS1 and through into the first Halos, I saw that the general public and friends alike eased off the whole anti-gaming thing and more people I knew would even own a console and dabble in the shit. When I'd win at games I didn't even own, I'd get handed a beer, not social-status insults.

Nowadays about through the PS2 times up to this year after the Wii, I feel like another semi-cultural shift kinda went down behind the scenes. While the population of known gamers is the highest it has ever been, I've noticed the overall difficulty of many games has dropped a ton, the game journalists have degraded in skills according to their reports of what is hard* (usually with humor-based reviewers adding a stab at players who can throw-down in games they can't), and then you got the usual cloud of whining from many-a-forum-places matched with online-play griefers or other very, very sore losers on the online games. Yeah, I know when it's playin' online, that's expected. But the kicker is, even offline, if a group of people and I end up getting a game going in whatever from Wii Bowling to shit I don't own, If I win a few I'll start to hear the 23-year-old updates to whatever insults kids would throw on a 1988 playground. And I was like, "what the hell it's just a game." And this is all even when I'm playin' like an eighth of what I used to way back then..

*The recent examples I could throw from memory are the Zero Punctuation Smash Brawl review where Yahtzee degrades himself for putting 10 hours in a game before playing with friends, 1up's Omega Five review, and AVGN actually calling Super Mario 3 Hard. 'Could prolly find others but to hell with research..

So on the street level, in your eyes, are video games a legit medium for hosting occasional gatherings or for legit friendly competition? Or has the reputation of video games been brought back down to that of say playing darts at a bar or goin' bowling without the Big Lebowski references: "fun to do, but if you're noticeably really good, people ask what's wrong with you?"

Bonus Question: Do any of you know of any game reviewers that are known to actually be good at gaming? I've dumped more bills on misleading opinions than I'm happy with.

It just makes me want to play more until I can beat them. I totally lost interest in 3S until one of my roommates picked it up. I'm not particularly good, but for a long time I slapped him around until I noticed he was playing it a ton 1P. And then I started losing.

AND THUS BEGAN A HEATED RIVALRY or something I don't know it's not really fun to win all the time (on a non-professional non-money etc level I guess) and not have anybody challenge you, is it?

People who whine about people that try to be better at games are really annoying.

And then it gets 10x worse when they try to say some shit about how they "play for FUN, man", like being better at a game makes it fundamentally less enjoyable.

Some people consider it a negative that you can actually get better at games with practice and consistently beat people who've never played them. Coincidentally when they start complaining I actually stop having fun.

I tend to ask a lot of questions when I'm new at games and that kinda bugs people. Though when it came to (re?)learning the basics of Melee in the weeks before Brawl came out, I think they were just glad that I came around and gave it a shot.

option 3

We have spoiler tags, why did you do that stupid color changed text bullshit?

wait I thought the post ended at the line, that doesn't work in TNL Classic aka superior mode or is that the point :(

DJ may not be smart enough to figure out there's different skins.

hahaha, is it too late to play the newb card?


I didn't know the spoiler tag syntax and didn't see a convenient way to find it. The classic skin text color was in front of me, so yeah. Besides, you're not strikin' me as the guy willing to read an extra 6 paragraphs if ya simply cant be bothered to click, drag, and let go a mouse button.

Good times :)

Hell no I'm not reading that wall of text. But the bigger point is most of the people reading don't even know there's a bunch of shit there because of that.

Can cka just remove the option for color text from vbulletin?

NO

How bout just removing specific colors that don't work with all skins then?

I respect anyone being better at any game than I am so long as they have composure.

If you beat my ass in Halo and act like a douche, I'll have more respect for the kids I run through the mud but thank me for a good round.

I love it when people beat me at games I'm good at, but don't act like a douche about it. It gives me a higher plane to strive for.

But I hate playing Halo with Opaque, fuck that guy.

I JUST BEAT YOU WITH JIGGLYPUFF, SHUN! WHATCHOO GONNA DO!

"eh, fuck this."

Pretty one-sided poll here. Obviously I agree with Opaque.

Back at the dorms, I LOVED losing at networked Halo games. It gave me a bigger target to go after on the next round. There was shit talking, of course, but it was in all directions, and everybody pushed one another to be better at the game. Didn't own an Xbox at the time, but there were a ton of consoles and controllers everywhere.

On the other hand, when you've got the "one guy" who owns the Wii and brings it to get-togethers in order to dominate a bunch of folks who've never played the game, that is very different.

#3... don't mind losing but if the guy is gonna go on a gloating spree it kills any respect I may have had for him.

I thought I was the king of Guitar Hero until my girlfriends cousin showed up and whooped my ass!!! but afterwards he was chill and humble about the whole thing, it was a touching moment.

I can't say I've ever felt respect for anyone playing video games no matter how good they are. It's not that I view them as pathetic, I just view being good at video games as a rather worthless skill. That said I hate playing with people who have an ego about it.

If someone is a douchebag, win or lose, I don't respect them. Whether it's at videogames, or anything else. Though lately I have gotten in the habit of muting everyone on the other team in every game I play, so I don't even give them a chance to be a douchebag.

Why haven't they developed that feature for activities outside of videogames...like life?

Ain't nobody likes no videja game douchebags.

The worst kind of game douchebag had to be the bemani/DDR douchebag. I remember this guy who refused to play Beatmania unless he was wearing his faggoty black beret. Here on LI there was a DDR "group" that would bum around the more popular spots (FYE in Bayside being the most popular) Man was it hard to like DDR back when I did, because you would always run into some poser who thought he was hot shit because he could "Perfect Maxx Unlimited"

I concur about DDR. It wasn't until some really great DDRer (and child molester, but I'd rather not get into that) came by and helped my friends and I play the game on maniac. After that it was good times.

I've been playing games competitively since I was 16. I enjoy playing people better than me because it makes the game exciting. There's no fun in demolishing the opposing player. Chinatown Fair, however, has alot of douchebags (HAY FLASHG YOU FAT NIGGER FUCK) who really make playing a game torture.

I don't give a shit if somebody is better than me at COD4, GOW, or whatever. I'm playing to have fun and unless someone is a complete douche, my level of respect for a person has nothing to do with Video Game SkillZ.

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Originally Posted by Rem

I can't say I've ever felt respect for anyone playing video games no matter how good they are. It's not that I view them as pathetic, I just view being good at video games as a rather worthless skill. That said I hate playing with people who have an ego about it.

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this is a good fucking point... whenever I play Guitar Hero for a long period of time I feel worse about myself because I have a real guitar sitting in my room and I should be playing that. I'm glad I don't have any interest in being the best at anything I play... it is a worthless skill.

That's a BIG part of why I pretty much refuse to get dragged in to games with excessive stories and bad gameplay anymore.

"Hmm... I could be reading a good book right now instead of watching this badly written bullshit videogame cinema."

I've never been able to slog through that shit, at best video games have the story equivalent of those pulp books you can get ten for a dollar at the flea market. And this is the best of them, most are much, much worse.

The "deep" ones are the fucking worst.

YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND

as long as there is a button to skip the "story crap" and get to the game... they can fill it with whatever drawn out BS they like. I think Godfather for PS2 was the last game I played that would, at times, get a little carried away with itself but it was a fun game to play (in moderation).

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as long as there is a button to skip the "story crap" and get to the game

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Most don't though, Folklore and Summon knight 2 are two fantastic examples of really awful stories getting in the way of genuinely good gameplay.

that's bullshit... if I paid more then $5 for that game it would be returned that day.

Playing through Halo 1 again, I find myself getting annoyed when the game takes control and jumps to the 3rd person cinematics, just so I can LOL at what a great character Master Chief is.

BUT... this all covered in some game story thread or another.

The multiplayer's still fucking great, picking up more controllers this weekend. :D

The point of competitive play is to rub your opponent's face in it, you whiners.

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Originally Posted by Dunlap

The point of competitive play is to rub your opponent's face in it, you whiners.

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or to prove to yourself that you can overcome your opponent but still be humble enough to shake their hand and say "good game".

Gaaaay.

LMAO!!

I never played much Guilty Gear X in arcades, but at random conventions you see the same people playing all the time. They're a good bunch of people and never act like douches. Except the people who cosplay as the character they're going to play as. You can expect to get your ass kicked and them have them be a dick about it.

I accuse the player who beat me of using a Game Genie.

That's only because the only way to beat K3V is by using Game Genie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

I JUST BEAT YOU WITH JIGGLYPUFF, SHUN! WHATCHOO GONNA DO!

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Hey, I only bring out the 'Puff when someone's being a total douchebag. I usually don't even have to use Rest. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TrialSword

The worst kind of game douchebag had to be the bemani/DDR douchebag. I remember this guy who refused to play Beatmania unless he was wearing his faggoty black beret. Here on LI there was a DDR "group" that would bum around the more popular spots (FYE in Bayside being the most popular) Man was it hard to like DDR back when I did, because you would always run into some poser who thought he was hot shit because he could "Perfect Maxx Unlimited"

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The FYE in Bayshore... Yeah.
Though, there's always the opposite end of the Bemani coin... Rat-Tail Guy.

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Originally Posted by Grave

It just makes me want to play more until I can beat them. it's not really fun to win all the time (on a non-professional non-money etc level I guess) and not have anybody challenge you, is it?

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This. Although I do like to win all the time, it's no fun if they aren't capable of beating you. Kind of like how it was with the Devils and Rangers from 1997 to 2007.

I like to be as good as I can at games, if I lose I lose, but either way I'm going to have fun. The only time losing sucks is when it's to some 13 year old who has to remind you that he's 13 and he just shot you in the head from across the map with a sniper rifle and his friends are all in the background laughing because they don't have a 360 and they wanna know "that guy" who's really awesome and a prestige 10.
Ok that digressed into a CoD 4 thing, but my point stands.

oy that too.

Regarding the rest of the thread: There's a difference between playful ribbing and calling your opponents mexican jew niggers. Chux should demonstrate. All taunting done in an Arnold voice is not douchebaggery.

Arnold vs Arnold. It has happened.

I played games for fun. I usually had more fun when I am losing. I usually stopped playing when my opponent cares too much.

I enjoy high level play, but the fact is that the majority of people you play against are douchebags.

And by douchebags, I mean the people who talk trash and the people whose only "skill" is abusing exploits in the game engine (sports games are notorious for that).

That's not high level play.

Well, let me clarify. I'd imagine that what you described is prevalent as far as arbitrary rank designations given by a game, such as COD4 prestige 10s (though this is one is solely a reflection of playtime) or in sports game I'd imagine it's just win-loss. These don't do much to tell you how good a person actually is beyond a certain point, and compared to legit good players most of these guys suck anyway.

Nah, I was talking about leagues/tournaments, not so much lobby play.

The ranking systems in most online games reward quantity of wins more than quality, so it's hard to take rankings seriously.

Yeah but all sports gamers are assholes. I've watched Madden Nation!

I generally like to be good enough at every game to not be called a noob.

There are a ton of games where it's really, really hard to learn without failing hard for a long time.

Personally I have a really hard time with pretty much every game when I first pick it up. Like, I'm borderline retarded. For example, I had probably a ~.6 k/d ratio in both Halo 2 and CoD4 for the first month or so when I started playing those. At some point though there's a breakthrough and I finally "get it."

I don't think I overthink it nearly as much as any of the options here.

I have no patience for anyone better than me at a videogame.

That being said. I try to ignore it all as much as I can. I'm totally the escapism player.

But I am just about the most bitter, angry, uncontrollable mother fucker there is when I get on a bad losing streak to an asshole of a player.

When, not if, I play you in any game I'm going to go out of my way to be a real asshole to you.

As long as they aren't douchebags, skills skill and there's always going to be someone better than you.

Wouldn't it be nice if you were the best though?

I always want to be the best at any given game I play, get all the achievements, have the best scores and times, collect everything, but I know that 99% of the time it's not going to happen, especially if the game is online.

Hell, I rememeber thinking I was AWESOME at Blazing Star with my score of 2,445,xxx.
Then I saw the score attack thread for it and I was reminded of how much I actually SUCK at video games.
And sure, I'd love to beat Through the Fire and The Flames on expert, but I doubt it will ever happen, and watching the videos of people do it just makes me sad. I did however beat it on Hard yesterday, that was a very proud moment for me.

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Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Wouldn't it be nice if you were the best though?

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Sure, but if you've done your best, isn't that enough?

That's a really difficult question.

You know the answer to all this lies in the Karate Kid Montage scene right?

I love playing fighting games against people who are better than me, because that helps me become better. I don't really like playing against Guitar Hero or Halo wizards because when I get my ass kicked there, it's not like I learned anything other than the fact that I suck.

That being said, win or lose, video games are fun. Can we all play some UMK3 on XBLA now please?

I had a friend who no matter what game we played he would always win. The dude was just really fucking good at pretty much any video game. I'm pretty good at puzzle games and even games that no one else I know could beat me in (puzzle fighter, tetris attack) he could start to beat me with in 20 minutes of playing a game. Drove me crazy but he was just naturally good at the stuff. Now that his crazy girlfriend hates me for existing, and I haven't seen him in a while I miss playing games with him, even shit like Guilty Gear where he could kill me in like 5 seconds.

So some people are just good at games, I don't see why you should look down upon them unless they are being a douche.

I'm still completely undefeated at Britneys Dance Beat.

Way to go, slugger.

I refuse to play Puzzle Fighter ever again. I tried to fuck around and use Akuma against Dan versus Brandi.

That game died for me that day.

I don't care if people are better or worse than me. I just don't like douchebags. Douchebags, unfortunately, are of all ages, genders, and skill levels. Bad douchebags are obnoxious. Good douchebags are obnoxiously frustrating.

Somebody doing Kabal's bullshit combos on me while taunting is not fun. Somebody doing it and laughing with me at the brokenness of Kabal is funny... especially if we do a Stryker vs Stryker match afterwards and I do a crossing guard friendship.