Getting Back into Drawing

I was trying to get back on the horse after not drawing much since high school.

I got burnt out in high school doing crap for assignments in art class. At one point i was drawing a castle with millimeter sized bricks in the chimneys.

Other than being burnt out from projects I didn't care about, I also stopped drawing because it had become unfufilling to me. I can or could draw anything I wanted in fine detail, but could never draw anything original. Though this impresses others, I really felt like I was nothing more than a really good copier. That didn't do anything for me personally.


In my approaching adult hood I've realized I've become depressed and I think losing most of my creative outlets is a main cause. I used to build things and draw. But school has left me little time to do either. I went into engineering to make things, but I make nothing.

It is hard to put into words what that is like, but I'm an artist that has produce maybe 1 or 2 things in 6 years.



I want to get back into drawing, and I imagine I can get back to where I was in about 6 months.

I want advice on how to continue progressing past that point.

EDIT: sorry if this turned into a LJ post. I just figured the first question would be where I am at in my ability.

Just start drawing. Every day. None of that other shit matters.

I can recommend some good books if you want, but books aren't going to operate the pencil for you.

I would say so.

But yeah, tell me about some books

-Bridgeman's Complete Guide to Life Drawing

-Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain - this will help you with using your brain to draw. think "Brain Age" but useful.

-Chuck Amuck by Chuck Jones (one of the best books on drawing I've ever seen)

-Drawing Comics the Marvel Way - more for funnybook drawing, but some solid quick/easy figure construction tips

-Animals in Motion by Eadweard Muybridge - not drawing per-se, but some great reference for movement

More added. Mostly because I like reminding myself they're on the shelf.

Protip: Don't bother with Chris Hart anything. Any "how to do it LIKE THE PRO'S!" book is going to be for assholes, most of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

Just start drawing. Every day.

---

There ya go.

Lock up this thread and I look forward to you posting in the daily drawings thread.

Hell, have a sketchbook on your nightstand, force yourself to do one drawing when you wake up and one when you go to sleep, even when you fucking hate to be doing it.

Soon you'll be drawing all day just because you want to.

along with yellerdogs suggestion of having a sketchbook on your nightstand to force yourself to draw, try making little projects just to get into the swing of things. like maybe drawing a face, character or whatever a day. if there's something you want to focus on improving like hands or eyes or technical stuff, try draw that each day.

I don't really care a lot about drawing things that exist. That was never a problem.

I understand the importance of practice. But is it really going to be helpful to keep doing what I was doing anyway when it didn't help me do what I wanted?

Quit hand wringing and just do it.

Get a mirror. Make silly faces. Draw them.

I find it odd that ironcheeks is asking for drawing advice... just go look at the rule 34 thread. I know you have all that shit on your hd and more so, get inspired and make some furry art.
Or do what Yeller said.
Or Chao.
Especially do what Nemo said.

TNL advice always has this wonderful retarded zen quality.

"I need advice on becoming better at drawing"
"Keep doing it"
"yeah, and do more of it"

Well, what the fuck? Pick up a pencil and don't post again until you've drawn something.

BC: "I want to get better."
TNL: "Do more of it."
BC: "But I don't want to do more of it."
TNL: "You're probably not going to get better."
BC: "Why are you fuckers so negative?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

Well, what the fuck? Pick up a pencil and don't post again until you've drawn something.

BC: "I want to get better."
TNL: "Do more of it."
BC: "But I don't want to do more of it."
TNL: "You're probably not going to get better."
BC: "Why are you fuckers so negative?"

---

Seriously.

I mean what the fuck do you want us to say?

Practice, buy some books and practice, take some art classes and practice...

You'll get a lot more drawing done if you actually draw instead of talking about it.

http://www.comet7.com/strips/bonus/c...entive_716.png

There is a picture of a cowboy, I made it for you.

Quote:

---

Pick up a pencil and don't post again until you've drawn something.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kidnemo

Seriously..

I mean what the fuck do you want us to say?

---

Did anyone read the first post? The reason I quit was not due to a lack of ability in drawing things I see, but drawing original things.

Not one single person has done anything to give advice on that. I drew things I saw for almost a decade and saw no improvement in drawing original works. So obviously I don't see a connection between the two.

I have no desire to get really good at drawing real things. I don't enjoy that. That is why I stopped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kidnemo

Practice, buy some books and practice, take some art classes and practice...

---

yeah, like in the second or third post in this thread, WHAT BOOKS? The things can cost between 15 to 30 bucks. What is good? What is shit.

okay, you say you want to draw original things. what do you mean by that? what is it you want to do? cartoons, anime, gonzo, abstract art, cubism, picasso, gigeresque, what? "original" can mean a lot of things. if you want more specific help, we need more specific info.

(i apologize in advance if this sounds mean or impatient; that's not how i meant it).

Have you ever considered that you're just creatively bankrupt?

Take some mushrooms.

I stopped drawing for over two years. IN just this past month I've been doodling and my skill has gone back to what it was 2 years prior.

If you want to draw something original, I think like Cow said you are creatively bankrupt. Its not a rip or anything, but a lot of people are.

BTW ... I will post my art soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gir

okay, you say you want to draw original things. what do you mean by that? what is it you want to do? cartoons, anime, gonzo, abstract art, cubism, picasso, gigeresque, what? "original" can mean a lot of things. if you want more specific help, we need more specific info.

(i apologize in advance if this sounds mean or impatient; that's not how i meant it).

---

anything really. Just getting shit from my head down on paper. Like I'd draw cartoon and game characters all the time. But once, I tried to draw my own character from my head, blam, shit on paper. A robot would come out looking like a hockey playing duck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Have you ever considered that you're just creatively bankrupt?

---

that would be a negative. One of my flaws is I'm a daydream. Half of what I do in class is come up with original content.

I think you really just need to practice. If you have an image in your head then copying styles isn't going to help. Work at it, going over a sketch ten or twenty times until you come up with something good.

Books can teach you fundamentals and techniques but that's it.

Why don't you draw something, tell us what you wanted it to be like, and then come back and we can critique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Why don't you draw something, tell us what you wanted it to be like, and then come back and we can critique.

---

that's a really good idea. one of the most helpful things i've found is having someone who can honestly critique my work and tell me what i'm doing wrong.

Also post an example of one of your detailed but not-original drawings, so people can see what you're talking about. If you don't have any left then make a new one.

Lots of vagina flapping, not a lot of drawings. Hmm.

You want to start drawing creatively? Then draw creatively. You gave up at that first hockey-duck drawing and didn't want to play anymore because it wasn't any good? Well boo-hoo. You've gotta break through that shit, and I assure you, you will make 1000 drawings before even ONE of them is worth a shit.

But then you'll make that one drawing. And you'll like it. And you'll keep trying to hit that spot where you get it right. And you'll miss. A lot. But in the next thousand scribbles, you'll get TWO drawings that are worth a shit.

That's how developing a skill works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buttcheeks

Did anyone read the first post? The reason I quit was not due to a lack of ability in drawing things I see, but drawing original things.

Not one single person has done anything to give advice on that. I drew things I saw for almost a decade and saw no improvement in drawing original works. So obviously I don't see a connection between the two.

I have no desire to get really good at drawing real things. I don't enjoy that. That is why I stopped.

---

That's because you can't learn to draw original things. You are either really creative, and can come up with original stuff easily or you aren't creative and can't. The technical processes of drawing something creatively original and realistically accurate aren't that far removed from one another. The creative process of coming up with how unique armor will hang on a foot soldier and a cool gun will look is entirely reliant on the creative ability of the drawer and his or her experiences. So read creative stuff to inspire you.

So if you want to be good at drawing original shit, start drawing original stuff more. If your ability to draw original stuff is hampered because it's not looking right on paper, then you need to draw more realistic stuff and take those principles with you while you draw new stuff.

Start putting pencil to paper or STFU.

Andrew knows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

You want to start drawing creatively? Then draw creatively. You gave up at that first hockey-duck drawing and didn't want to play anymore because it wasn't any good? Well boo-hoo. You've gotta break through that shit, and I assure you, you will make 1000 drawings before even ONE of them is worth a shit.

---

don't be an idiot. I said over at least a ten year drawing period in my youth. Their were tons of failed attempts. Tons and tons of horrible frustrating shit.

Hey, fuck you buddy. We're trying to help, and you're getting the same advice anybody else would get.

You want to do this thing, you do it. No visual memory? Copy elements of other things directly and string 'em together until it makes sense. How do you think most concept artists get work?

Hell, draw hockey ducks. part hockey, part duck, all cop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

That's because you can't learn to draw original things. You are either really creative, and can come up with original stuff easily or you aren't creative and can't. The technical processes of drawing something creatively original and realistically accurate aren't that far removed from one another.

---

Do you even draw?

Those two things ARE far removed for me. Its why I quit. Don't be a stupid dick and act like I'm lying or some shit. That is how it is for me. Accept it and help or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

If your ability to draw original stuff is hampered because it's not looking right on paper, then you need to draw more realistic stuff and take those principles with you while you draw new stuff.

---

what principles? I don't know any. I just got really good at drawing things I saw. I never put any thought into it.

Jeez, IP. I get that you're frustrated, but all the board artists are telling you the same damn thing.


Listen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YellerDog

Hey, fuck you buddy. We're trying to help, and you're getting the same advice anybody else would get.

---

dude, it is lazy bullshit advice. If you made a thread saying you wanted to pick up the guitar after giving up on it, you'd get better advice than this. No one would telling you obvious shit like "practice everyday for an hour." Josh would tell you to pick up some Nirvana and Ramones tabs, I'd tell you about some cool sites and to try to guitar pro software, and mykozo might tell you about some pitfalls he sees people having. If you wanted to learn electronics, I and maybe even biff could give you a list of books, in order, to read to learn what you wanted to learn.

Telling me do more of something to get better at it is silly obvious shit that I don't know why you even bothered to type out. After 2 years of training in drafting and 3 years of art classes, you don't think I know that? After 25 years of life on this planet you don't think I know that? Well shit, you must really think I have downs. Fuck.

DO you have downs? Clearly it's NOT obvious, or you'd be doing it instead of whining on TNL.

Find an artist you like, copy their shit for a while. Try that.

The point IP is that unlike a guitar where you can use tabs and read notes. Drawing, creative painting, charcoal art, etc. Comes from the mind. There is no set program. You either can or can't. I personally can not draw women. I suck at it. I have tried and tried. I will continue to try and try. I will copy others work, I will do it over and over till I get it right. But there is no set way as to do the particular task.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Advocate

Drawing, creative painting, charcoal art, etc. ...There is no set program.

---

thanks, thats all any of you had to say. That none of you really know how to help with this and don't know of any books that can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buttcheeks

dude, it is lazy bullshit advice.

---

No, it's good advice, which is why everyone in the entire thread has said the same thing, including more than one professional artist.

I can't draw for shit but a lot of the same principles apply to writing. Copying a style of someone you like is a good way to practice your shit until your own unique style comes out. But you've GOT to do it, and every day.

If you post drawings I'm sure people here will be able to give you a lot more advice. They can't start to fix what they can't even see.

OKay so I re-read the question. You want to know how to progress past the point of being good copier.

And you want to know how. IE: books, or guides.

You do realize that what you are asking you answered.

If you want to progress past the point of copier you have to put into practice what your teachers told you to do. Look at the world and draw. If you read a book and try to apply the books teachings all you are doing is copying their style and not making it your own.

The first post Yeller did was a couple of books to learn from. So, really use them. But to really get past the point of copier ... you have to draw from life and gain your own style, which will come naturally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cowutopia

No, it's good advice,

---

Did you walk into this thread, and honestly think I didn't already know it?

And if you say yes, why?

Why would you think I didn't already know that I needed to practice a skill?

Do me a favor and quit being a dick.

Also, read the rest of that post you quoted.

Yeller, you asshole, when did you add those books. I hate you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Do me a favor and quit being a dick.

Also, read the rest of that post you quoted.

---

No, seriously, did you think I didn't know it?

Last edited by YellerDog; 05-21-2008 at 01:09 AM.

No, it's just the best advice there is, which is why everyone's said it.
WE'RE NOT MAKING FUN OF YOU. REALLY.

It does piss me off that every book on writing I've ever read opens with "FUCKING WRITE EVERY DAY". It does get old.

Quote:

---

Thanks, thats all any of you had to say. That none of you really know how to help with this and don't know of any books that can.

---

We could identify what kind of problems you're having really easily if you posted some artwork.

Create an original drawing that will invariably suck and then post it up here with one of your good copies. That's it.

If you aren't doing that then you're creating "good" artwork of unknown quality- there is no way to respond to this. You could be a master, or you could be like an ignorant kid who is proud of crap because he's stupid. There is no reasonable way to properly approach what you're talking about without knowing where you stand.

The same goes for your original work. You could be just fine with ego problems, or you could be someone who mistook being able to copy someone else's drawings as a reason to believe you could create similar quality work on your own which resulted in you toiling away for years never improving because you were too stupid to realize what was wrong. Which best represents you? Perhaps something in-between?It is an eternal mystery, until you post some art.

People have been nice and have formed responses based on guessing what kind of trouble you're having, and you've just snapped at them for getting it wrong. Maybe there is something in this post that you'll want to quote and argue with. If so, stop it.

You want some real advice, then put up some artwork.

I mean hell I just posted two pieces of art of mine. 1 is new and its a doodle. The other is old and I posted it before, but it vanished. Since I lost comcast and their wonderful server.

I dug through my room and didn't have much luck finding anything. I must have given my portfolios to my mother or grandmother.

I found some drafting stuff I did by hand, a mecha sonic i drew from looking at the comic and ruined trying to ink and paint it, and two quick ten second sketches.

this is some concept stuff I did on a free day before finals. I really enjoyed it and its what got me thinking about picking it back up.

The figure is transposed onto reference so I wouldn't have to waste time with keeping the limbs the right praportions. The mixer truck and tractor robots are 100% orginal. The two tractor robots were drawn mostly for the locomation concept. Torso and heads for them are completely throw away.

I would suggest more of an attention to tone and shadows, and general definition. Also, your lines aren't very straight or accurate. Stick with the lead pencils and try to make a complete picture, rather than these quick, albeit fairly cool sketches. That tractor could look rad with a little TLC.

I don't think I've ever bothered with line weight or tone/shadows. Even looking at the mecha sonic picture, all my lines have the same basic width (and I screwed up the perspective of the leftside arm and the leftside leg).

I don't think I ever grew out of the fast/loose stage of sketching when it comes to something original. I wouldn't even know where to start with setting up a light source and the impact that would have on the drawing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arjue

Stick with the lead pencils

---

that was all done in pencil

Just did this. It's of a toy robot from my childhood.

yes, and stick with that.

All fuckin' right!

Keep bangin' out drawings, BC!

Something I've always liked doing, draw your construction lines really really lightly, then "ink" 'em by pressing down hard on the pencil. Try to form long, fluid lines when you do this, don't chicken scratch so much. This works really well with a Very Sharp pencil or a plain ol' mechanical pencil.

Work on getting a feel for putting the pencil down and lifting it off the paper in one movement.

I'll try to give you a full on critique when I've got the time. Preview: Your perspective is a goddamn mess and you need to work on picking out the right details to make the form feel more solid. It sucks, do it again. "One Thousand Drawings" should be your mantra.

Keep drawing!

Funny enough, I almost alway sketch in ballpoint pen now. Since it's a little harder to smudge, it's easier to go back on older sketches and see the construction lines. As an added bonus, you'll get to see your "process" in each sketch and become more mindful of line placement for future drawings.

Then again, that's all just as possible with pencil. Go you!

i think some life drawing would help you out a great deal. i feel like before i took life drawings, everything i did was kinda stiff. it helps you loosen up....especially quick gesture drawings. maybe dig up some videos of dancers on youtube and do quick sketches of poses that catch your eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buttcheeks

I don't think I've ever bothered with line weight or tone/shadows. Even looking at the mecha sonic picture, all my lines have the same basic width (and I screwed up the perspective of the leftside arm and the leftside leg).

I don't think I ever grew out of the fast/loose stage of sketching when it comes to something original. I wouldn't even know where to start with setting up a light source and the impact that would have on the drawing.

---

line weight and shading are super important. just using different line weights can give a whole new dimension to a drawing. most how to draw manga books touch on this.

shading is something i'm also trying to learn, so i've been bookmarking a lot of stuff that's seemed helpful:
shading in drawing
drawing resources and tutorials
figure drawing <- i think this especially might be really helpful
video drawing lessons
the $100,000 animation drawing course
how to draw a graduation with graphite
the figure drawing lab

i agree with rama: figure drawing is really important. it's important to learn how to create fluid drawings that show movement and personality. pixar's new wall-e movie features a robot, and the reason it works is because the robot has a lot of personality. drawing people, animals, robots, inanimate objects, whatever, with personality and movement comes from life drawing. one thing that may be bothering you about your drawings that you can't pinpoint is the lack of 'life' you see in them.

force: dynamic life drawing is one of my favorite drawing books, and i totally recommend it if you don't already have it.

None of that shit matters if you're not putting it in to practice though. Most important is just to draw.

Don't get caught up in "style" shit early out, either. At this point, you probably don't even have a comfortable way of holding the pencil down...

Buttcheeks I think the disconnect between your copied images and originals comes from not having the fundamental skills that went into making the stuff you copied. I can't say for sure because everything you posted is rough and I don't know how old the Sonic picture is, but it's what you put up and combined with some of your comments that's what I'm working from.

Anyways, If you copy a picture of spider-man swinging through a city you just need to have decent line control and the ability to not screw up proportions. If you want to draw that same picture on your own then you'll need all of the knowledge of anatomy, lighting, perspective and everything else that the person who made the drawing you originally copied had. There is a huge difference between copying and creating something on your own.

So instead of just reproducing something you need to work from the perspective of being able to understand how and why a drawing was done a certain way. It's kind of like the "teach a man to fish..." thing, but... for drawing. You said you don't know how to approach applying lighting to an object, so that's a good place to start. You could also try taking characters you like and then breaking them down so that you can draw them comfortably on your own. It'll help give you an idea of what it took for their original artists to draw them and give you an idea of what things you need to focus on to improve the way you want to. And of course these suggestions come with "draw over and over again" added to them. You don't get to apply artistic advice immediately unless it's something that's covered by a skillset you've already properly developed.

When I took art in high school, one of the most important lessons that I remember from my art teacher is to pay attention to the shadows, not the lines. Shadows are what really give an object dimension and hierarchy. A really good way to learn shadows is with a sketch of cloth. Here's what a quick search on deviantart resulted in:

Actually, you'll have to click on the link.

Compare the area of detail vs. the undetailed area on the right. See how you can start to read the cloth, and how it folds? A cloth still life is really easy to set up, shows you a lot of principles of light source, shading, etc. If you're having trouble starting, take a picture of it, desaturate it in Photoshop, and take a look at it two-dimensionally. Don't copy it; use it for reference in how to represent the shadows.

I would recommend you getting a set of sketching pencils from Michaels or any art store. It doesn't have to be anything fancy; maybe a 2H to 8B (very hard to very soft) leads.

Rezo dropped science hard in his previous post, I suggest you pay attention!

though essentially he's still saying "draw more!" but in a more eloquent fashion

so what happened in here?

Danger.

cocks

Dangercocks II: The Asphyxiation

Darkwing Cock imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkwing Cock

lets get dangerous

---

I had one of those toys. My dad tried to smash it with a baseball bat when it turned itself on in the middle of the night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I had one of those toys.

---

Darkwing Cock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frogacuda

My dad tried to smash it with a baseball bat when it turned itself on in the middle of the night.

---

Sounds DANGEROUS

Darkwing Duck does not hold up.

It's no Danger Mouse, for sure.

Or Danger Cock.

Banana Man.