The Big News (TNL is black. And this time... it's personal)

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Originally Posted by Scourge

We're lucky (well, not lucky, but you know what I mean) to have built in traffic from having been around for a long time and having members who were integral parts of the gaming journalism community. Dyne's point could cut either way. I think he meant that he'd prefer the front end to not be so injoke/meme heavy so that it's only preaching to the choir (current members who understand how tnl is), which would again put tnl in direct competition with sites like ign.

However, the opposite might not be very inviting to prospective members. For example, the best dvd site I know is http://www.dvdinmypants.com/. But the entire place is based on injokes and memes and thus the community there sucks balls and I think the traffic for the forum is really small. We'll always have a big forum community, but if we're looking to expand by attracting people with our front page content, some real balance on the front end will have to be found.

Hm, we should throw dvdinmypants a bone and partner with them for movie content here. I like that place but never go anymore because the community sucks.

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Scourge got my point.

Also, we need a weekly Rock Band DLC review on Wednesdays. Who is willing to spend 5 bucks a week that owns a 360 and can play instruments on Expert besides me?

I can.

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Originally Posted by Scourge

We'll always have a big forum community, but if we're looking to expand by attracting people with our front page content, some real balance on the front end will have to be found.

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The ultimate goal here, and what previous incarnations of TNL always struggled with, is creating a balance so that the forum responds to and ultimately nurtures the content site, and so that the content site attracts new people to the community (hopefully the sort of people that would fit in here, too). We're going to try to do that by making the site a lot more interactive and keeping the personalities of the two halves more in sync.

Also, we're not going to be making the site inaccessible to the point where we're calling games "dracula" or other in-jokes and bullshit. We're not a bunch of apes that just clap for shit we know like "Git'r'done." We can be funny without being esoteric.

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Originally Posted by Revoltor

I wanna do a trash cinema section with DNG. We will be the Siskel and Ebert of schlock.

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What about Asian B-Movies? The only reviews of them on the internet right now try to take them way too seriously. We could change that.

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Originally Posted by AaronChance

I used to be known as Ammadeau, so I had no persona to begin with.

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All of this name changing confuses me to no end. I was actually wondering what happened to you.

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Originally Posted by Biff

I have to insist that we have a monthly Josh show where he tries awesome shit like degaussing his toilet bowl while wearing star trek shirts.

I will post a significant donation to TNL if this is confirmed.

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I'd do something like this as long as it was actually entertaining and not just stupid.

I'd also need a video camera, and more Star Trek shirts.

THIS IS GOOD NEWS. GRATS TNL.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Also, we need a weekly Rock Band DLC review on Wednesdays. Who is willing to spend 5 bucks a week that owns a 360 and can play instruments on Expert besides me?

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Meeeeeee.

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Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

What about Asian B-Movies? The only reviews of them on the internet right now try to take them way too seriously. We could change that.

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Awesome idea.

B-movies ARE serious business.

I like TNL.

wait why aren't we calling games dracula?

I heard that the new rating system is "WOLF MAN" "FRANKENSTEIN" and then "DRACULA". Really shitty games get "INVISIBLE MAN" or "MUMMY"

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Originally Posted by Revoltor

I heard that the new rating system is "WOLF MAN" "FRANKENSTEIN" and then "DRACULA". Really shitty games get "INVISIBLE MAN" or "MUMMY"

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wolfman has nards.

I insist that all staff have avatars made by Kidnemo.

http://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gif

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Originally Posted by Scourge

I insist that all staff have avatars made by Kidnemo.

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FuryFox imo.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

FuryFox imo.

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I knew there was something about you I didn't like.


http://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gif

my rating system will be as follows: FIERCE, HOT MESS, HOT TRANNY MESS

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Originally Posted by Scourge

I insist that all staff have avatars made by Kidnemo.

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Originally Posted by Kidnemo

http://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gif

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I agree with these posts.

Also, I'd like to submit a movement to allow the floating, disembodied, surly head of KidNemo to hold a staff position.

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Originally Posted by Kidnemo

I knew there was something about you I didn't like.


http://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gifhttp://www.comet7.com/images/misc/nemo_floater.gif

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if there was a short list you would be my #2, Mr. Nail Painter.

Nobody tells me anything anymore, I used to be in the loop =[

But greatest news evar imo

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Having an abundance of content is just as bad as having no content at all. Just sayin'.

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I find exactly the opposite to be true. Having an abundance of quality content is vital to a site's growth. When I started Sega-16, I had to compensate for its ghetto design with content. Once the redesign was done, and we had a few years of work behind us, I was getting interviews with people like Tom Kalinske. Now I can get interviews with Sega, Namco, and others. I'm a nobody in the industry, and I know these people talk to me now because of the amount of good content we have.

TNL doesn't have this problem because it has years of content and name brand behind it. Adding GN's to it only makes it stronger, and the new TNL is going to be in a great position when it launches because of all the great work that can be found on it. Content is a site's résumé.

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Originally Posted by Scourge

I insist that all staff have avatars made by Kidnemo.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

FuryFox imo.

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I was going to have a go at it, but you guys had to go and hurt my feelings.

Who are you?

Your fajah.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

I was going to have a go at it, but you guys had to go and hurt my feelings.

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I support bacon as staff portrait artist fo'sho!

I wouldn't mind doing some toasty frog-esque game reviews/features with text and artwork if you guys would have me though. :D

That would be pretty dope.

Actually, accompanying some features with a relevant spot illustration or something from the artists here could be a really good idea, it's not really something other sites do much of.

I didn't mean to hurt any feelings with my support of Kidnemo. :(

Actually, will TNL also be heralding the coming of NSJ, or are the articles just going to, y'know, talk about video games and stuff?

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

That would be pretty dope.

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That [staff portraits] is actually something we had in mind for a while back at GN even, but the artist we were going to have do it kinda flaked out on us. I've seen your art though, and if you want to do 'em, that would be pimp. Are you down for drawing the core staff and the occasional update when we take on someone new (probably like 2 people a year if the past is any indicator)?

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Originally Posted by Kidnemo

I wouldn't mind doing some toasty frog-esque game reviews/features with text and artwork if you guys would have me though. :D

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I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but we should talk about it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

That [staff portraits] is actually something we had in mind for a while back at GN even, but the artist we were going to have do it kinda flaked out on us. I've seen your art though, and if you want to do 'em, that would be pimp. Are you down for drawing the core staff and the occasional update when we take on someone new (probably like 2 people a year if the past is any indicator)?

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I actually did quick sketches of you and bahn last night on a lark, I was going to float the prospect to you soon anyhow. Just give me a good pic of everyone to work off of and I'm down.

Headshot or full body? Headshots seem a lot easier, but I don't know what you had in mind.

Something like this?

The more original art accompanying any content the better imo.

You can always tell how much a site cares by the amount of original stuff it does.

Just putting up a logo and a couple screen shots for a review is laziness of the highest order.

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Originally Posted by cigsthecat

Ironplant is crazy lately. I like it.

podcast pls

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it would be a lot like uncle ruckus from the boondocks. Except replace racism for a dislike of heinous bitches.

I totally forgot.
We had a possible Buttcheeks sighting in NYC when we were eating brunch.
You were at the next table, you totally could have come over and said, "hi".

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Headshot or full body? Headshots seem a lot easier, but I don't know what you had in mind.

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Yeah, just headshots.

what happened to Ampersand.

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Originally Posted by Revoltor

I wanna do a trash cinema section with DNG. We will be the Siskel and Ebert of schlock.

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I want in on this, my first contribution could be a glowing writeup on such timeless classics as "Mega Force", "Nuke 'em High", or my own personal favourite, "Black Belt Jones" (or even keep in the games theme with a writeup on the 1980-something smash "Joysticks")

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Actually, accompanying some features with a relevant spot illustration or something from the artists here could be a really good idea, it's not really something other sites do much of.

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The more original art from our resident artists the better imo.

Podkasts are good but there's so much out there in the form of podcasts that the shorter you get them the more people will listen, I think. in between 10-30 minutes.

I listen to about 3 or 4 podkasts. I listen to them on my lunch break. One is a daily one that runs anywhere from 7-20 minutes at a time and some are from 1 - 2 hours.

I like how we all started referring to all podcasts as podkasts.

It's the kool thing to do.

WOW. Lots of posts I've gotta catch up too. Frog has already got a lot of things covered and I am in basically in agreement about the artists contributing in whatever capacity that can be delegated and balanced without creating anyone feeling "left out".

The concerns about the content adopting the TNL-style are definitely valid. We've already discussed that and I don't see any difficulty getting that to cross over and balance what already exists on the board. The key that I've gathered from all interested is to maintain TNL's personal style which we'll make a priority.

Bacon: Excited to see your sketches.

Re: Podkasts
These will be just as important as video. This is another area I know Frog will be focusing on heavily too.

Overall, we appreciate all the support. The ideas and interest has been fantastic! Keep it coming.

I think we should have a TNL 4.0 station I.D contest in the future. I'm sure some of us in the music section would like to make some quick lil station I.Ds for the podcasts. Have a bunch of em made up and vote on the favorites. Yall would just have to come up with the rules on length and what to be said in the I.D. Something simple like a catchy sound or melody and "TNL podcast".

That could make make the podcasts sound more uniform than just random recordings and a bit more professional.

THE-NEXT LEVEL, THIS SHIT IS DRACULA!

IBTN!!!

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Originally Posted by Chux

I listen to about 3 or 4 podkasts. I listen to them on my lunch break. One is a daily one that runs anywhere from 7-20 minutes at a time and some are from 1 - 2 hours.

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I listen to Car Talk and Wait, Wait every week, then there's a plethora of podcasts I never get around to that I usually just delete after a while.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Nobody tells me anything anymore, I used to be in the loop =[

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Maybe you should pry your ass away from nasgoolath or whatever the fuck for a few minutes and hang out with us again. hm?

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Originally Posted by cka

I want in on this, my first contribution could be a glowing writeup on such timeless classics as "Mega Force", "Nuke 'em High", or my own personal favourite, "Black Belt Jones" (or even keep in the games theme with a writeup on the 1980-something smash "Joysticks")

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In depth analysis of misunderstood classics like MK Annihilation and Mario Bros. I think we should have 2 or 3 reviewers for each film like old school EGM. In fact why not just steal their layout all together.

I will loan my deep, black jew voice for voice over work if desired.

This all sounds exciting and like a great idea. I would love to contribute something irregular if I could. I haven't written about games since I was with Neomega, and I sort of miss it.

Anywho, a couple pages ago, it was mentioned that TNL had several writers who moved on to do pro game journalism gigs. Who were these, and where are they now? I'm just curious. I know the Gamego/Gamefan guys.

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Originally Posted by Seik

Anywho, a couple pages ago, it was mentioned that TNL had several writers who moved on to do pro game journalism gigs. Who were these, and where are they now? I'm just curious. I know the Gamego/Gamefan guys.

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Sqoon works at RottenTomatoes full-time, MarkRyan is now EiC of IGN Guides, Reno went on to IGN and eventually Capcom, I write for IGN, bahn has written for IGN, Gamespy, and 1up, sl1p wrote for 1up, Joystiq, and a string of progressively less relevant shit. Melf writes occasional freelance stuff for GamesTM, James, Ammadeau and some others write/wrote for HGM...

I know I'm forgetting stuff, but it's a pretty long list.

I wrote for Robobo.

Sorry. No Robobo alumni allowed.

You'll never work in this town again.

Drew, he doesn't work anyway.... that's akin to telling a midget he'll never dunk a basketball.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

You'll never work in this town again.

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What town? Fuckhole, Ontario? I'd say that's probably a good prediction.

Put that in the prediction thread, Frog.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Sqoon works at RottenTomatoes full-time, MarkRyan is now EiC of IGN Guides, Reno went on to IGN and eventually Capcom, I write for IGN, bahn has written for IGN, Gamespy, and 1up, sl1p wrote for 1up, Joystiq, and a string of progressively less relevant shit. Melf writes occasional freelance stuff for GamesTM, James, Ammadeau and some others write/wrote for HGM...

I know I'm forgetting stuff, but it's a pretty long list.

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also, there were a bunch of guys who went pro before the gamego exodus - like gone and writing for IGN and shit by the time i got to my first E3 in 2002. more than once i was stopped by a stranger at E3 who introduced himself and told me he started at TNL like 5 years prior.

By "pro" I assume you mean they made 30k a year to write about how much awesome was contained in mario 64?

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Originally Posted by Biff

By "pro" I assume you mean they made 30k a year to write about how much awesome was contained in mario 64?

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I'm not a fan of gaming journalism, either, but you're a complete dickhole for knocking them if they want to write for video game magazines. If that's how they want to live they shouldn't need to hear shit from you.

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Originally Posted by Biff

By "pro" I assume you mean they made 30k a year to write about how much awesome was contained in mario 64?

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You think you could do my job, Biffycakes? I think "righting" might not be your strong suit.

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Originally Posted by Biff

By "pro" I assume you mean they made 30k a year to write about how much awesome was contained in mario 64?

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yep. writers get paid shit regardless of field, but they're still professionals. my girlfriend writes stories that spark subprime mortgage meltdowns and doesn't break $50K.

You guys have talent, I'm not hating at all and sorry if I came off that way. I read all of Frog's stuff, but let's not call Sl1p a "pro", deal?

And Frog, lol, you could not last 5 minutes in my job as you have to get up by 6am :)

Not like Mark Ryan is really hurting for money either. Biff is being a dickface, cause he doesn't have an ounce of creativity in his body.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

What town? Fuckhole, Ontario? I'd say that's probably a good prediction.

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hey there's lots of work here in fuckhole

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Not like Mark Ryan is really hurting for money either. Biff is being a dickface, cause he doesn't have an ounce of creativity in his body.

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Really? Numbers and design aren't creative? I mean it's not stacking mulch but I do what I can my man. Why are you even getting in this?

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Originally Posted by Biff

You guys have talent, I'm not hating, and I read all of Frog's stuff, but let's not call Sl1p a "pro", deal?

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sl1p's a funny, talented dude, I can't even lie. I think the downward spiral that is his career can be mostly attributed to the fact that he's a colossal asshole (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) and almost impossible to work with.

In other news:

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Originally Posted by A guy with more money than Biff will ever see (Bob Dylan)

A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

What town? Fuckhole, Ontario? I'd say that's probably a good prediction.

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I forgot this was the internet.

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Originally Posted by Biff

You guys have talent, I'm not hating at all and sorry if I came off that way. I read all of Frog's stuff, but let's not call Sl1p a "pro", deal?

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writing is a profession if it's paid regardless of what you think of someone's work or lifestyle choice biffycakes

Then what we consider "pros" are not the same.

I mean I see 1,000 untalented hacks writing reviews on the web and getting paid to do it. Does this mean they are the next Mike Royko?

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Originally Posted by Biff

Then what we consider "pros" are not the same.

I mean I see 1,000 untalented hacks writing review on the web and getting paid to do it. Does this mean they are the next Mike Royko?

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is abraham nunez a pro ballplayer?

(or more accurately, was he yesterday?)

(alright, to be fair, i meant making a living off writing, as opposed to getting a couple pennies on the side)

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Originally Posted by Biff

Then what we consider "pros" are not the same.

I mean I see 1,000 untalented hacks writing reviews on the web and getting paid to do it. Does this mean they are the next Mike Royko?

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Who?

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Originally Posted by Burgundy

is abraham nunez a pro ballplayer?

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He actually can do something entertaining once in a while.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Who

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Are you even fucking serious?

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Originally Posted by Biff

Then what we consider "pros" are not the same.

I mean I see 1,000 untalented hacks writing reviews on the web and getting paid to do it. Does this mean they are the next Mike Royko?

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I don't think you understand how competitive writing jobs are. I can pretty much guaruntee that any job at IGN gets more applicants in one week than your job would in a month.

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Originally Posted by Biff

He actually can do something entertaining once in a while.

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that's not the definition of "professional"

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Originally Posted by Biff

Are you even fucking serious?

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Some nobody. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I don't think you understand how competitive writing jobs are. I can pretty much guaruntee that any job at IGN gets more applicants in one week than your job would in a month.

This shit's cutthroat, and don't forget it.

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I have no doubt this is true, however, you require a degree to work in my field. Now, that's not a rip, but it does limit the applicant pool. For every Neo and Fahs (and yes I like your stuff) there are 100 idiots who get paid to pen retarded reviews that either A) Don't correlate with the score given or B) Remind me of my 3rd grade story a wrote about a lion stealing a house.

This has gotten off topic, I apologize.

I really do look forward to this site when it gets up and running!

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Originally Posted by Biff

For every Neo and Fahs (and yes I like your stuff) there are 100 idiots who get paid to pen retarded reviews that either A) Don't correlate with the score given or B) Remind me of my 3rd grade story a wrote about a lion stealing a house.

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i really think you are overestimating how many people are getting paid to write reviews. there's no shortage of crappy writers who are happy to write reviews of games for free product, or nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Biff

I have no doubt this is true, however, you require a degree to work in my field. Now, that's not a rip, but it does limit the applicant pool. For every Neo and Fahs (and yes I like your stuff) there are 100 idiots who get paid to pen retarded reviews that either A) Don't correlate with the score given or B) Remind me of my 3rd grade story a wrote about a lion stealing a house.

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Look, for every Robert DeNiro, there's a Keanu Reeves, but don't act like it's easy to be a professional actor just because you can out-act Keanu. AND, don't act like Keanu isn't a pro himself just because he isn't very good.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

i really think you are overestimating how many people are getting paid to write reviews. there's no shortage of crappy writers who are happy to write reviews of games for free product, or nothing at all.

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This is also true.

I can tell you've never seen Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

exactly, you don't have to be sir laurence olivier to be a professional actor

anyway we are arguing over semantics, i'm done

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drew's sense of noncomedic timing is impeccable

Woah

<3

And I thought I'd lost touch!

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I don't think you understand how competitive writing jobs are. I can pretty much guaruntee that any job at IGN gets more applicants in one week than your job would in a month.

This shit's cutthroat, and don't forget it. The number of people writing about games full time for a living without a day job is probably not that far off from people playing major league ball. It's a small niche.

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Let's not kid ourselves here. Writing about videogames is every slacker/undergrown adult/kid's dream. But just b/c lots of ppl want to do it doesn't mean it's a profession.

Neither is it a joke job. Guys who can write well and get paid are truly hard to come by and should be accorded the respect they deserve.

Part of me will always snicker at the "professionals" that get paid to write (many times, poorly, imo) about videogames. But we shouldn't impugn their livelihood.

If writing in the industry is what you want to do, more power to you. Not all of us can be x-ray HR bean-counters for GE (or whatever Biff does).

The problem with being an industry writer is that every kid with a B in Junior English and a Zboz thinks he can do your job...and will, for free.

I have friends who are (true) professionals in the newsrag industry who have legit journalist training/exp and have a hard time keeping their jobs. What will videogame writers do when their competition is even more voracious?

A profession is something that pays the bills. It's something which is more than a part-time job. This is all. Someone who does my job for free is not doing my job.

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

I have friends who are (true) professionals in the newsrag industry who have legit journalist training/exp and have a hard time keeping their jobs. What will videogame writers do when their competition is even more voracious?

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Hopefully, the industry will up its standards and require a degree or formal training so people like me will have less competition. :D

The fear is that the more Blogs start coming out. The more NORMAL journalism will fade.

There was a news article about it in Philly.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

The fear is that the more Blogs start coming out. The more NORMAL journalism will fade.

There was a news article about it in Philly.

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This is exactly right. You know why? Because "trained," "legitimate" journalists are being outpaced by assholes on the internet.

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

I have friends who are (true) professionals in the newsrag industry who have legit journalist training/exp and have a hard time keeping their jobs. What will videogame writers do when their competition is even more voracious?

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Don't give me that bullshit about how just because you write for a newspaper you're "legit" and videogame shit isn't. There are a lot of hacks and a lot of talented people on both sides of the fence. I guarantee you I fact check better than half the assholes at the Post. I see fuck ups in mainstream journalism on a daily basis. Half the newspapers out there write shitty one-sentence paragraphs and are no better at expressing themselves than the average IGN writer. They deal with the same shit we do. This is EXACTLY why the mainstream media is being nipped at by amateurs. Degrees don't mean shit, it's what you can do.

I understand the arguments that newsrag journalism is more important and all that, and it is, and I respect that if that's what you want to do. I write about games because I'm selfish. It's what I know more about than anything else, and it's what I know I can do better than most other people. But it's just subject matter.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I guaruntee you I fact check better than half the assholes at the Post. I see fuck ups in mainstream journalism on a daily basis.

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Uh oh.

Hey, I never said I was a good typist. I'm talking about factual errors. Which I've made, too, on rare occasion, and I know this shit is hard, but I've seen news reporters do shit that is just sloppy and irresponsible because they know the story will sound will sound better if they just trust their source.

good point.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

sl1p wrote for 1up, Joystiq, and a string of progressively less relevant shit

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sl1p's a funny, talented dude, I can't even lie. I think the downward spiral that is his career can be mostly attributed to the fact that he's a colossal asshole (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) and almost impossible to work with.

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I think that GameTap is a step up from something like Joystiq. He was writing there for a while, though they just recently shut down their editorial/video sections and fired everyone.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Sqoon works at RottenTomatoes full-time, MarkRyan is now EiC of IGN Guides, Reno went on to IGN and eventually Capcom, I write for IGN, bahn has written for IGN, Gamespy, 1up and occasionally writes for Otaku USA, sl1p wrote for 1up, Joystiq, and a string of progressively less relevant shit. Melf writes occasional freelance stuff for GamesTM, James, Ammadeau and some others write/wrote for HGM...

I know I'm forgetting stuff, but it's a pretty long list.

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Aside from the boldface edit above, this is the only others I can recall...

Makaze used to write for us a bit, so I figure he deserved a mention. He's now the Editorial Director of IGN. Shidoshi did too in TNL's earlier years - who we all now know is working for Play. I think that just about covers it.


Let's get the discussion back on track about 4.0, those looking to support it, etc.

Bacon: I think there are some shots on my PC that I can send to ya this week for the character bios.

BK: Wasn't ignoring your reply. I'd welcome your support, just be aware that the copyedit standards are much higher than they were back in 1999.

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Originally Posted by Tain

I think that GameTap is a step up from something like Joystiq.

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Not as far as readership goes, it's not. But whatever.

Lack of fact checking does really bug me. I make no claims of being a good writer or anything but I spend a lot of time fact checking when making message board topics. I expect people getting paid to write actual articles to research even more. Then again, I don't know to what degree deadlines are affecting them.

This is what happens when "legitimate" media talks about the shit I know about. Newspapers get dumbed down every day, too, and they pull the same shit just to get a "hotter" story.

And the responsible journalists out there that can really write (and of course there are many) are going to be just as frustrated by this as the good game journalists.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

This is what happens when "legitimate" media talks about the shit I know about.

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Agh, I can't fucking watch it all the way through. It makes me want to stab my prefrontal cortex with some red, white, and blue scissors.

The type of journalism I do is to help people. That's honestly all I want out of life. I can act selfish and all when you actually hang out with me but I chose my profession because I believe everyone should have knowledge about their world.

I can't see video game writing fulfilling those needs. Do a barrel roll.