The New Castlevania

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Originally Posted by Melf

... or a subscription-based MMO.


Oh wait...

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You laugh, and it may be a terrible game, but FFXI has printed money for Square-Enix. So yes I would say it worked out well for them.

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Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

They still exist. They still have a niche.

But they are not popular anymore my friend I'm sorry.

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I think that's a bit much. It isn't the early 90s anymore where everyone and their mother was making a fighting game, but there's nothing about the genre that precludes it from not moving a ton of units from time to time. DoA3 and 4 did really well on the Xbox/360; every PS2-era MK game has moved a ton of units, SC2 moved some ridiculous number of units when it came out (and SC4 could very well do the same).

The dissonance is between what sells in America and what the hardcore players worldwide play is where the issue is, and it is there where your statement applies.

It's really shocking that a genre that has a ludicriously steep learning curve is losing fans.

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Originally Posted by Rem

It's really shocking that a genre that has a ludicriously steep learning curve is losing fans.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Rem

It's really shocking that a genre that has a ludicriously steep learning curve is losing fans.

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Only if you want to be the most awesome player there is. Otherwise you learn a couple motions and you now know how to play 20-50 other games as well.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Only if you want to be the most awesome player there is. Otherwise you learn a couple motions and you now know how to play 20-50 other games as well.

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But if you play like this the games are fun until you beat arcade mode and dick around a little with friends. Then It's more or less back to the pile. The real lasting appeal of these games are the tricks and nuances that take a lot of time and effort to do at all, let alone master. That's why people are still playing Third strike and street fighter 2 over a decade after release.

It's hard, and most people including myself just aren't willing to do that for every game that comes out. I did it with third strike and vampire hunter (not that I'm great, but I tried.) And when DoA4 came around I enjoyed it but I just couldn't take my play to that next level and quickly abandoned it. It simply wasn't worth the frustrations, and I'm willing to bet most people share this view.

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Originally Posted by Rem

The real lasting appeal of these games are the tricks and nuances that take a lot of time and effort to do at all, let alone master.

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That's most games in every genre, yes.

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That's why people are still playing Third strike and street fighter 2 over a decade after release.

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That's most multiplayer games in every genre, yes.

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That's most games in every genre, yes.

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But in fighters it's to a much, much higher degree. Just because of the one on one nature of it, in shooters a bad or inexperienced player can get some kills due to the chaos. But in third strike? They will get slaughtered every time.

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That's most multiplayer games in every genre, yes.

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But you don't have to learn those tricks in every other genre to play decently.

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Originally Posted by Melf

... or a subscription-based MMO.


Oh wait...

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Hey fucker at least it's a good game. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Rem

Just because of the one on one nature of it, in shooters a bad or inexperienced player can get some kills due to the chaos.

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I thought we weren't counting messing around with your friends?

No, just hopping into something like CCTF or the original Team Fortress against good players is not going to get kills. Even with the chaos it requires knowing the mechanics and being really, really precise to stand a chance at taking down anyone. Now, if it's just a bunch of randoms, then sure, because you'll have a completely disorganized team game. When a team is properly playing together it's almost impossible for someone fresh to the game to stand a chance at anything. Then comes the 1v1 modes like instagib where it becomes hilariously easy for a skilled player to never be seen against a new person that will be dying before they can even move the mouse enough to aim, let alone fire.

But really, we're just throwing out generalizations. Even if we go your route and say that a 25-1 ratio per round means less skill is involved I don't see how that is a higher degree. You're just saying that an incredibly tiny slice of luck which will never affect or change any match can occur.

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But you don't have to learn those tricks in every other genre to play decently.

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You aren't seriously telling me that you're going to stand a chance in a WarCraft 3 or Starcraft tournament after just learning what units the game has, are you?

I've never played TF so I can't speak about it. Playing decently doesn't mean tourament level play, but I've seen people who have never played halo before hop online and get some kills. You wont beat any masters obviously, but you can do all right. You can't do that with fighting games.

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You're just saying that an incredibly tiny slice of luck which will never affect or change any match can occur.

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No, I'm just saying they have a very steep learning curve, which they do. And that is why they aren't gaining any traction against the more popular genres.