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http://www.laddertheory.com
I just revisited this site recently and would like to see what TNL has to say about this. I'll post my thoughts later as to specific points, but I would like to see primarily what TNL poster's positions are on ladder theory.
I lied.
I happen to find it nearly flawless.
This shit takes me back. I'd say this theory is pretty much spot on. Of course, we'll need the ladies of TNL need to chime in.
I find it to be very true. I have dated friends, but it usually worked out because they were interested in me before we became friends in the first place.
I do know guys that think its a crock of shit because they date female friends all the time, but I find that those guys never really have strong relationships with women. They normally just treat them as associates and flirt with them off and on.
So yeah, totally correct and the exceptions actually reinforce the rule as 1) the girl wanted to date you before the friendship, or 2) you aren't really strong friends.
Depends on the woman, but as a population, yes?
I tend to date girls who started out as "just friends", so I'm jumping all over them fuckin' ladders.
I do not know many other people who do, though.
Rarely friends with ex's, for whatever that's worth.
Ha, I had a cuddle bitch back in college, but I think he ended up being gay.
The part I agreed with most is where he said the person you're with now should be higher up than the last person you were with. Why would you settle for less than what you've already gotten in the past?
It makes sense to me although it seems like a guideline rather than absolute trooth. I say skoff at your own peril.
That means you were never relegated to the friend-ladder. You were merely put just below on the fuck-ladder than their current love-interest or "would-like-to-have" love-interest, and once he was no longer around you were on the top rung.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Once on the friend-ladder, always on the friend-ladder. You might fuck if intoxicated, but never will you move over. Unless you have an Emmy. EDITED
As with most things sociology this is a good 'overall' way of thinking about it, but it has no basis in the fine details of social interaction.
What's that Patrice Oneal line? "Pussy is like cars, it ain't like houses. The value goes down."Quote:
Originally Posted by Samba De Amiga
You don't build a resume and get to leverage yourself for more in a relationship. Most people do settle for less the older they get, honestly.
Please elaborate. So, like, you'd be all cuddled up in bed and he'd reach for some real action, and you'd deny him? And this happened more than twice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Samba De Amiga
Definitely true.
Makes me sick.
it gets better after you hit your twenties and get more control over your life. Girl don't want to do date you? Fine, move on and find someone else.
Its pretty lame when your in your teens though and you have an exact number of people you get to interact with for the next 4 years.
I originally read it back in 9th grade or so, and kept it in mind all throughout high school. My sophomore year, I was friends with this one girl for like... 8 or 9 months. It was obviously I wanted to get with her, and she resisted. I persisted regardless, and we finally started dating. 3 months later, she cheated on me with some dude while on vacation that she swore that she fell in love with. I didn't really get pissed, I just considered it a lesson learned.
Look relationships are what you make of it. When young fuck around, cheat, dump, and fuck whatever makes you happy, when you get older and want to buy shit together with an significant other fuck the ladder. Honestly if you don't cheat, sleep around and catch at least one curable VD you've wasted your youth.
Someone sounds bitter
I don't think the ladder theory is condemning any of those, Marskitten. It's more of a warning to guys who are falling for girls who simply aren't interested in them, when they could very well be sleeping around or whatever. The curable VD, though... I hope I will have wasted that part of my youth.
How often does this happen to women? This is a serious query. I know there are books out there tailored toward women addressing this issue ("He's just not into you" or whatever.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tones
But are we really that inscrutable? Or is it that men think differently than women, and they can't fully comprehend actions we consider blindingly obvious?
Look all I'm saying is that there is a time to fuck around and sleep with anyone that just interests you on a purely sexual level. That time is nowish. 18-30ish. Or so. Everyone is young and about as hot as they're going to get, go for it. get a condom box, and remember to use those fuckers.
Too many people get into "relationships" for the wrong reasons anyway. The right one is because you're genuinely into that person and want to be with them in more ways than just in bed. You don't need a relationship to be complete, right, socially exceptable blah blah blah. Go watch Oprah Short version: sleep around, be responsible about it and don't cry if they're not into you "really" infact expect that.
I'd be interested in an answer to this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
Now that I think about it, I've never seen a girl go after a guy, not get him, and then keeping trying like many guys trying to get out of the freindzone.
Maybe thats because men don't often give a lot of time to girls they don't at least kind of find attractive, so girls always get a guy if they are friends and like them. But I don't know, really.
who are you talking too? Do you think anyone on TNL doesn't get into a relationship for the reasons you gave? You're talking to the woman haters club, remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsKitten
I think it's just a case of mixed signals; it can possibly happen both ways. Guys just feel it a lot more because it's the cultural norm for them to initiate/make the move.
Going into 100% blanket statement mode, I've heard that when a girl is interested in a guy, the rule of thumb is to catch her before the four-week mark. However, it seems like a lot of guys can be head-over-heels for a single girl for much, much longer than that. Also, females tend to break things off in the short run at the first sign that the relationship won't work, but also seem to be more willing to hold on in long-term relationship when things start looking bad. I don't know if these are because males and females are wired differently, or have just adjusted to two different assumed positions in society.
I'm kind of confused about this as well. I don't see anyone arguing with her. Perhaps she's just a bit miffed about the concepts behind the Ladder Theory? I guess it could be read as a bitter reaction to relationship with females, but honestly, it's coincided with all of the experiences that I've had, as well as everyone that I've showed it to.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Bitches is crazy.
fact!
Has happened to me more than once. Its the same thing as our side, except as you said, society puts alot of pressure on girls not to make that move, so its more ballsy and crashes harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
For the record, I jumped ladders, from best friend to boyfriend of over a year and a half, but it is by no means the standard.
This theory is damn near spot in, I applaud this man.
Nope, all we ever did was cuddle. Back then in my wilder youth, I would have given it up for him, but he wanted cock, and that's something I just don't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykozo
The part about exes is spot on too.Quote:
Not a single woman who wasn't a bitch has ever complained about misogyny at this site. I can prove this on an abacus.
I don't really have many female friends. Chances are if you see me with a woman I'm probably fooling around with her. But yeah the ladder theory is true to a point but I wouldn't use it as canon.
I'll be your friend. ;)
It's not true for me. If I can't talk intelligently to a chick then I'm not sleeping with her. There's no point in enduring idiocy just to get laid.
That just means intelligence is a part of your ranking system. You still don't have female friends you wouldn't sleep with because you don't bother to endure the idiocy. And I agree with you.
I don't have any female friends really, except girlfriends of my friends that I'm obligated to be friends with. I either want to sleep with you or I don't want to be around your obnoxious ass.
It helps that I have a pretty rad girlfriend because my fuck drive is sated, higher on the ladder etc., but it doesn't make me want to run out and make friends with these girls, just avoid them.
You don't have to talk to women to fuck them.
Sure, but even if you don't talk to her she can talk at you, and that's often awful.
Normally the pussy is worth it.
Ladder theory is wrong. Every one has one ladder. If some one fits your bill they're on the ladder. If they're not, they're not. The odd behaviors women show that make it seem like they've two ladders is just social nicety/naivety issues.
IDBTNQuote:
Originally Posted by Razor
I've seen some very clear exceptions, but as an overwhelmingly probable general trend, it holds up.
I used to get offended, since I lack female friends, but I'm well aware that if given the chance most of my male friends would sleep with me once or something. Doesn't bother me and it doesn't ruin the friendship, it just makes way for some good jokes you wouldn't get with gay guys or straight female friends.
I used to believe in the ladder theory, but I don't any more. It's more or less caused by the fact that when guys become friends with a girl they A) become super-attainable and thus undesirable B) Are already giving the woman the companionship they want out of the relationship or C) Are just letting their guard down and showing part of themselves that is undesirable.
Guys don't realize when they do this, of course, so we construct some complicated esoteric model of the female brain to explain it.
I don't agree with Frog. My 2 LTR both came out of friendships.
Anyway, I agree with this theory.
There are some awards for persistance. Perhaps you did something (like make more money) that bumped you up her ladder after a while.
Lemme tell you, dude. Gettng pussy is my favorite passtime. It really shouldn't be but it is. I'm obsessed with it to the point where it hinders me from doing other things in my life. It's actually a bit of an annoyance because I've dropped shit just to go chase tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykozo
That being said, I would normally do anything for some pussy, even hold a conversation with the woman.
Ugh, that one is a toughie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
When I was a teenager, I thought it was awesome to talk to women. After sophomore year of college, however, I noticed I hold no common interest with women. Even my exes, who I was in relationships with for over a year, really couldn't hold my interest in conversations because they didn't dig what I did.
this might be true. Men often don't take into account that women hold a lot against us because most men don't hold much of anything against anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
men normally ask them self 1 thing about men "is this guy a jerk to me?" and two things of women "is this girl mean to me" and "is she attractive?"
WTF are you talking about?
men ain't as judgmental of women as women are of men. And men often forget that when trying to understand why women do what they do.
Oh, okay.
It's simply this, men can be friends with other men because we don't really give a fuck about who the other dude fucks or what he does for a living as long he isn't fucking mine or going for my job. As long as we can drink beers together, spit, and have a common interest we'll get along.
Women after 25 can't be friends with other women, even if they say they are, they are not. They do such things as; Fuck each other boyfriends, talk mad shit about each other behind their backs, dick each other over, and of course, compete for attention. This is because it is stored somewher in their brain that they most get the most attention no matter what, and that they will always want what another woman has just to make sure the other woman knows she's able to get it.
I thank god everyday I'm not a woman.
Never read the ladder theory until a minute ago. Spot on.
I'm confused. This theory says that it's difficult to form a relationship from a friendship and I'm disagreeing with it...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
Can we please not pass this off like men strictly fit one model of behavior and women strictly fit another? It's total bullshit.
It's not, sugar tits. Men and women are both incredibly different.
I know that, but you are all speaking in terms of women ALWAYS do this and men ALWAYS do that. There's a great deal of variation within and between genders. The theory may hold true for a great deal of cases but it's not applicable in a fair number of others.
The one thing I know that is constant between all types of women is that they suck. At least once you get into a relationship with them.
lol
The only girls that don't act in the manner I've pointed out are either lack self esteem or are batshit insane.
I can give you that, it allows for enough variation that I'll settle. Props for trying, though. I think women are hot as hell but I'd never have the mind to actually want to date one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
It's better than dating dudes. At least for me.
I can always tell when you're speaking from experience.
You have my heart.
My ex was and -- to an extent -- is one of my best friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
I don't think anyone really treats this as an absolute. But it does help to explain behaviours common to each sexes.
:tu:Quote:
A note for guys: if your friends girl offers you a piece you should hit that shit, because he shouldn't be laying up with no ho. Ideally you should tape it also, because most guys will believe the person they're fucking.
question, has any guy, by course of his action, made you go from thinking that you would never even kiss the guy, to wanting in his pants?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
There's nothing of particular note that makes me pissy about the gender typing. I am not a special little snowflake, but I also don't fit statistically typical patterns of female behavior for my age group. There's nothing unique about it, but I dislike being lumped into an incredibly vague group for no reason. I am a minority in the wide range of cases; I also have male friends that fit both the expected patterns in the theory, and those that most definitely do not. Saying 'all men or all women' is just crap to me.
blah blah blah =P
You asked.
This is pretty much the most sensible way to look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
This is so true. I have never considered a female a true friend. My best friend is a guy (who I have slept with before) and almost all my other friends are guys. I do hang out with chicks from time to time but they are petty and mostly boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I can see how the group of "female" may seem vague at first, but its quite clearly defined if you break it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
Do you have the vagina?
No ---> You are not female
Yes---> Go on to the next Question
Do you also have the penis?
Yes ---> UH OH!
No ----> You are a female!
By using this simple method, you can determine if you are in the vague group of female with near 100% accuracy!
There are always exceptions to any rule, but most of this is pretty sound. I was somewhat in denial of it until I made my first ladder jump and another guy after the same chick did not and thought 'Wow, that's pretty solid".
Fuck! I got "UH OH!"
So, what are you doing tonight?Quote:
Originally Posted by NGEFreek
A woman on the street told me to "go fuck yourself!" today, so I might give that a whirl.
I would pay good money to see the porno where such a thing could happen.
Oh, it exists, you just need to know where to look.
And who doesn't amirite? no really, where is it.
I'm pretty sure it was on jj.am somewhere, if not, I'll have to scrape my brain to remember where I saw this Hermaphrodite on Hermaphrodite action.
No its on youporn.
I'll post it at the usual place.
Fair enough, listen to Advocate, his knowledge of porn surpasses that of my own.
For Great Justice!
This little exchange never took off to the epic levels it could have.
Here's a website I found while searching through google. http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/
TNL's opinion?
win :link:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tones
what gets me is that while reading the comments, it seems that the guys here think that the women are helpless maidens that are being captured and fooled into hanging out with douchebags
The site delivers.
LOL TONES.
All they need are guys with popped collars and the site will then be complete.
I'm going as this for Halloween: A gigantic douchebag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Port
You won't need much of a costume.
Completely agree. I don't fall into the "guy who'll fuck anything that will let him" category and I never did. I don't find it particularly challenging to get laid, I find it more challenging to find a partner/friend/lover that actually has some substance to them. I've turned down plenty of "hot" chicks over the years because, frankly, I could care fucking less if I don't sleep with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
That's the beauty of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Did you hear that? That was the sound of the post going right over your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
This theory is accurate. Those who argue against it fail to realize what being the "exception" means and how it does not debunk a theory. This theory is real, it is accurate, and if it doesn't apply to you then you are the exception, not the rule and your experiences do nothing to discredit this theory.
Look, if I have a theory about how magnets make the earth go around the son, and you disagree with it, it doesn't mean you don't think the earth goes around the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch
The ladder theory does nothing to explain the behavioral pattern or understand the exceptions, so it's not very useful. It's obviously describing a real phenomenon, but the question is if it does it well.
WELCOME TO EARFQuote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Exactly. Why anyone would want female friends is a mystery to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
How'd you miss this guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
He's wearing a pop-a-colla-bro and a sweater-dude, that's like a hybrid of an aughts douchbag and a eighties douchbag.
Also this picture is a perfect example of how ugly people can work really hard and make themselves attractive, but once you strip off the $200 clothes, 1 hour work on the hair, waxing and fake tanning, deep down, they're really just ugly.
You'd have to have more than the theory itself. You'd have to be able to test that theory or verify it through observation. I don't think you can do that with what you proposed but I'm no scientist and could very well be wrong here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
And my theory would be that you don't know enough highly attractive, highly pursued women to realize that this tiering system does indeed exist on a more widespread basis than perhaps you want to admit. From a behaviorial perspective it's necessary as a weeding out process at the very least. I am assuming that you don't discount the male ladder theory, while realizing there are exceptions, but that they are minor enough to be classified as exceptions. A theory really is only a hypothesis, or speculative opinion anyway. It doesn't have to be fact.Quote:
The ladder theory does nothing to explain the behavioral pattern or understand the exceptions, so it's not very useful. It's obviously describing a real phenomenon, but the question is if it does it well.
No. That's me rollin' with the punches. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Nash
He thought you were slow.
"I moved here from Canada, and they think I am a little slow, eh?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1217185258
I just thought of something...
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=38954
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=38955
Sorry for the MSP job, that's all I've got on the computer I'm on right now.