Election Thread 2016

This polarization started in the 1960's, when one group of people in one particular region were told they couldn't treat another set of people as inferiors anymore. A bunch of slimeball politicians won elections by pandering to those people and it has all been downhill from there.

I really think it is far worse than the media talk about. It's not just about differing opinions, or worldviews, it's about each side literally thinking the other is evil and only their way is true, and there is *nothing* worse in politics than absolutism. Yes, everyone has their hard beliefs, that's what elections are for. For example, Republicans wouldn't have passed the New Deal but they lost. But Republicans still worked with FDR and Democrats worked with Reagan. These days one side doesn't believe in the legitimacy of another. Republicans refused to work with Obama from day one. This is bad.

Shouldn't they be petitioning their state government to secede rather than the white house?

I almost want it to happen just to see the results of their new government.

My state would probably turn into a third world country.

That could benefit me though, it would be easier to conquer without the US military foiling my plans.

The funniest part would be if they all banded together and then had to apply to the US government for permission to travel across international roads and air space, all the while trying to get passports made for everyone.

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Originally Posted by GohanX

My state would probably turn into a third world country.

That could benefit me though, it would be easier to conquer without the US military foiling my plans.

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Get in line.

NC civil war 2013: saiyan vs dino

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

there is *nothing* worse in politics than absolutism.

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Only the Sith deal in absolutes. Dun dun dun!

What happens to their sports teams? More importantly, what happens to their baseball teams?

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Originally Posted by DirtySouth

Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States

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That's saddening. Requesting to secede is as immature as saying you'll move to Canada.

Also sad: The petition for Texas says that it will "protect it's citizens."

Leaving off the rest of the statement makes it sound like a physical protection: "[I]t is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living [...]"

They just want to live comfortably in a racist patriarchy. Is that so wrong? Speaking of, Stormfront is pretty excited about this petition and they're talking about how if it happens it'll be one step closer to a true white power nation.

With Texas an independent state I would love to see the cowboys vs Mexican drug cartel war happen.

Holy shit.

He looked like the other guys were going to lynch him.

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Originally Posted by DirtySouth

Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States

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A handful of idiots I know on facebook have posted this. Apparently there is one for MS is one of the 15.

Mississippi seceding from the US is the worst fucking thing it could ever do for itself. It takes in more money from the federal government than it pays out each year in taxes. Most of our industry depends on selling shit to other parts of the country and god knows what seceding would do to that. And if things ever degraded enough for a full on race war like white supremacist want, it would destroy the state. 38-46% of the state is black. Hate groups could never commit genocide. Any such actions would be met with a state wide civil war.

The state would fall into ruin. With the potential of crime, death, and devastation everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

The state would fall into ruin. With the potential of crime, death, and devastation everywhere.

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And this is just MS today; imagine what would happen if the state actually seceded!

oh if only heehaw was still on the air, you might have had a career in entertainment

Missed this little gem of Mary Matalin flipping out:

http://youtu.be/_UNO5_I3YDc

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

This polarization started in the 1960's, when one group of people in one particular region were told they couldn't treat another set of people as inferiors anymore. A bunch of slimeball politicians won elections by pandering to those people and it has all been downhill from there.

I really think it is far worse than the media talk about. It's not just about differing opinions, or worldviews, it's about each side literally thinking the other is evil and only their way is true, and there is *nothing* worse in politics than absolutism. Yes, everyone has their hard beliefs, that's what elections are for. For example, Republicans wouldn't have passed the New Deal but they lost. But Republicans still worked with FDR and Democrats worked with Reagan. These days one side doesn't believe in the legitimacy of another. Republicans refused to work with Obama from day one. This is bad.

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Nothing will ever change until we get over this hump. It's maddening.

Meanwhile, at Yoshi's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoqti0lzAw&

PR can replace at least one of those states. Statehooders have sent letters to Washington claiming that 61% of a 54% half equals a super majority. There seems to be stupidity running both ways lately in regard to leaving and joining the Union.

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Originally Posted by Melf

PR can replace at least one of those states. Statehooders have sent letters to Washington claiming that 61% of a 54% half equals a super majority. There seems to be stupidity running both ways lately in regard to leaving and joining the Union.

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We should totally let PR join the union as a state. Many PR peeps I've met seem fairly happy to be here and a far cry nicer than many conservatives.

I don't recall ever seeing such a retardedly overdramatic response to an election before, though this may be due to the growth of social media. Seeing a lot of it is funny initially but it always makes me really sad afterwards.

I think there was a ton of I AM MOVING TO CANADA in 2004

I SPEND HOURS
AND HOURS
AND HOURS

MINING THE NEWS

she must have gone apeshit when Obama won by 3 million

she should have researched what the asterisk meant, oh and how to do arithmetic

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Originally Posted by Bojack

We should totally let PR join the union as a state. Many PR peeps I've met seem fairly happy to be here and a far cry nicer than many conservatives.

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Is nice the criterion now? Awesome. Let the nicest guys pay the bill.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I think there was a ton of I AM MOVING TO CANADA in 2004

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I remember some of that, but it didn't seem as hateful and outright stupid as the shit going on now. People threatening to move has upgraded to people killing themselves, driving over spouses for literally no good reason, batshit insanity on the news, people writing suicide notes from the viewpoint of the US, etc. It's just pure blind hatred at this point and most of these people don't even really understand how the system works.

It's like the GameFAQs boards invaded our political system.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I think there was a ton of I AM MOVING TO CANADA in 2004

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I've heard a lot of that in every election ever. But this "I WANT TO KILL TRAITOR OBAMA VOTERS" shit is kind of another level. There's a lot more rage and fear this time.

I hope the rage and fear isn't warranted, but I believe it will be.

Rage? Yes

But it was ridiculous in 04 as well. All of this "I AM SORRY, WORLD" from a bunch of insincere people that were like 19 years old. And the moving thing hit new highs.

But these people this time are batshit crazy, which is worse. In 04 it was pathetic, but not dangerous

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I hope the rage and fear isn't warranted, but I believe it will be.

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Except the "rage and fear" is emanating from people who envision Obama as the resurrection of Vladimir Lenin, when in reality he is a center-left technocrat.

These people have been whipped into a froth by right-wing operatives working in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I hope the rage and fear isn't warranted, but I believe it will be.

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Congratulations. You are part of the problem.

How so? By believing that Obama's agenda will continue to be hugely negative for the country? When we're worse off in four more years than we are now, who will have been part of the problem?

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Except the "rage and fear" is emanating from people who envision Obama as the resurrection of Vladimir Lenin, when in reality he is a center-left technocrat.

These people have been whipped into a froth by right-wing operatives working in bad faith.

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That statement implies that those who voted for Obama did so because they were completely informed, which is total bullshit. We have a largely uneducated populace voting on issues they don't understand. You want danger, we're living it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

How so? By believing that Obama's agenda will continue to be hugely negative for the country? When we're worse off in four more years than we are now, who will have been part of the problem?

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Literally no one is worse off than they were 4 years ago. It was a nice line during a stump speech for Romney, but had no basis in reality. Four years ago we were in the middle of a collapse.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That statement implies that those who voted for Obama did so because they were completely informed, which is total bullshit. We have a largely uneducated populace voting on issues they don't understand. You want danger, we're living it.

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The people I am talking about are largely uneducated and uninformed too, although Rush and Glenn and Fox told them they were the smartest guys in the room.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

When we're worse off in four more years than we are now, who will have been part of the problem?

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From what I can see right now, all the idiots who are whipping themselves into a frenzy and the political officials who are refusing to work with Obama just because they want to be assholes. There's a whole lot of self-fulfilling prophecy getting set up. They're so intent on trying to convince everyone that Obama will be the worst thing to ever happen to this nation that they'll make it come true if they have to fuck everything up themselves.

That's a very convenient excuse. The problem is "working with Obama" means capitulating on everything. Allegedly, he's impossible to work with even for Democrats, which is part of the reason Obamacare was such a mess.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Literally no one is worse off than they were 4 years ago.

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That's amazing. The death rate has been zero for four years? No wonder this guy got re-elected!

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's amazing. The death rate has been zero for four years? No wonder this guy got re-elected!

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Mitt Romney targeted his stump speech towards dead voters? No wonder this guy got re-elected!

I'll bet he knows what "literally" means.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's amazing. The death rate has been zero for four years? No wonder this guy got re-elected!

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According to some of the crazies the dead are better off.

If they lived in Chicago or Philadelphia, they still got to vote too.

See? It's like they're still here with us today.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's a very convenient excuse. The problem is "working with Obama" means capitulating on everything. Allegedly, he's impossible to work with even for Democrats, which is part of the reason Obamacare was such a mess.

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That's a very convenient statement. Got any proof for it? I could say, "Allegedly, Yoshi keeps a dupe account on TNL by the name of Hero."

It's not really a dupe account so much as it's more of a Jekyll-and-Hyde thing whenever he turns on his 3DS or Wii.

There's a book out that chronicles a lot of it, but I don't care enough to go Google the name. Just watch one of his press conferences. He has the most baseless aura of arrogance I've ever seen. It doesn't come as a shock at all that he carries that into "negotiations."

Allegedly Nick has a giant penis

A lot of words to just say, "no."

Surely, Yoshi's conclusion about "auras" is completely free of any predetermined biases.

Allegedly yoshi diddles babies

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's a very convenient excuse. The problem is "working with Obama" means capitulating on everything. Allegedly, he's impossible to work with even for Democrats, which is part of the reason Obamacare was such a mess.

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Sorry, this is just factually wrong. Did the Repubs capitulate on the Bush tax cuts in 2010? On spending, Obama bargained with Boehner in good faith, and Boehner bargained with Obama in good faith - that deal was sunk by the crazy teabags in Congress. All accounts are that Obama was willing to go quite far to get a deal done. Farther than, by the way, he may willing to do so after an election.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

We have a largely uneducated populace voting on issues they don't understand.

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Yeah almost half of them voted for Romney.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

How so? By believing that Obama's agenda will continue to be hugely negative for the country? When we're worse off in four more years than we are now, who will have been part of the problem?

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Every republican in congress, for starters.

Anyone who can't even show up to the conversation is part of the problem, and that includes every asshole who organizes with Grover Norquist about how to obstruct the system entirely.

Allegedly diff-chan is actually omfgninjas

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Allegedly, he's impossible to work with even for Democrats, which is part of the reason Obamacare was such a mess.

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This implies that Obama was in any way involved in the content of Obamacare, rather than just signing it, which is simply not true.

I'm so glad we get four more years of Yoshi tears.

I'm not.
Let's make lemonade.

Allegedly Dave keeps his fiancé roofied at all times

Allegedly, bbobb possesses a modicum of wit.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

Yeah almost half of them voted for Romney.

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Congrats on finally understanding one of my posts.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

This implies that Obama was in any way involved in the content of Obamacare, rather than just signing it, which is simply not true.

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Isn't that damning in and of itself?

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

A lot of words to just say, "no."

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It's Bob Woodward's The Price of Politics, not that any of you boobs had any intent of actually looking into it anyway.

If Diff states some corny line about a Republican, I'll ask for citation as well.
There's enough rhetoric in the world.

edit: sounds interesting from the NYT's review. Added to wishlist.

Yawn. The Price of Politics is about the debt deal, and like I said, both Obama and Boehner bargained in good faith. There is no account anywhere of that deal that amounted to Obama forcing JB to "capitulate" to everything he wanted.

The deal got undone by the lack of Congressional support. Which isn't surprising because the first rule of American politics is that nobody *really* cares about the deficit and no politician is going to support a deal that hurts his or her constituents in the name of deficit-cutting.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's Bob Woodward's The Price of Politics, not that any of you boobs had any intent of actually looking into it anyway.

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I just wanted to say I've been itching to read that book.

I also want to say that I'm not sure, based on the reviews I read, that your account accurately describes Woodward's work.

That's why I said allegedly. I'm relaying third hand information, so it is quite possible there is some telephone game stuff involved. I haven't read the book myself.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Congrats on finally understanding one of my posts.

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Uneducated people voted Romney......... got it.

Don't you have a kid to whine about having to raise?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Don't you have a kid to whine about having to raise?

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He has an Obamacare nanny who calls him on her Obamaphone when any problems come up. Then he takes his Cash for Clunkers car over the house and fixes it with socialism.

I don't really know why people are so worried about Obama ruining the nation.

I don't believe a single president could do so. We have such a incredible distance to fall before we actually have it bad. Almost anyone that wants shelter has it. Most 'poor' have shelter, HD tvs, ps3s and smart phones. We have some of the wealthiest poor in the world.

Sure, we have problems that are inconvenient. We even have a handful that are horrible. But none of them will sink the nation. The nation won't fall because grandpa gets sick, can't pay for it, goes bankrupt and finally dies of his illness. Some guy might lose his job and default on his house loan and loose almost everything. Again, that won't ruin the nation.

People are just being ridiculous. If the US dies, it will be because of something completely random that we have no control over and could not foresee and thus have no safeguards for. Or something just out of our sight will slowly destroy us, and our grandchildren will just wake up one day and think "man, America sounded better in Dad's stories."

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

He has an Obamacare nanny who calls him on her Obamaphone when any problems come up. Then he takes his Cash for Clunkers car over the house and fixes it with socialism.

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Precisely, I put Obama back in office to keep my sweet ride intact. Each of my kids has 7 social security numbers and my wife has at least 4 disabilities we're getting some crunk ass SSDI from. Life is great.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Isn't that damning in and of itself?

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Sure, it's one of my biggest disappointments with him. But the Republican congress had way more to do with the content of that bill than Obama ever did, and the fact that they grandstanded against it and voted no doesn't erase their fingerprints all over it. So own that.

Obamacare is Dolecare. It's the thing Republicans wanted instead of a real single player system, a shitty compromise that makes money for the insurance companies, and does nothing to lower healthcare costs. It was inadequate then, and it was inadequate now, but that's YOUR party's fault, not mine and not Obama's.

You say this as if Republicans ever had any interest in passing Dolecare or any sort of healthcare reform. They didn't. The best we got during the Bush admin was a giveaway* to their base in Medicare Part D and shitty HSAs. They needed to put something out there so they wouldn't be criticized for not having an idea so that was it.

*it's only okay to give your constituents "free stuff" when Republicans do it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Sure, it's one of my biggest disappointments with him. But the Republican congress had way more to do with the content of that bill than Obama ever did, and the fact that they grandstanded against it and voted no doesn't erase their fingerprints all over it. So own that.

Obamacare is Dolecare. It's the thing Republicans wanted instead of a real single player system, a shitty compromise that makes money for the insurance companies, and does nothing to lower healthcare costs. It was inadequate then, and it was inadequate now, but that's YOUR party's fault, not mine and not Obama's.

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So a bill that passed through a Democratical controlled Senate and was signed by a Democratic President is not the Democrats' fault? Fascinating. Not surprising but fascinating.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

So a bill that passed through a Democratical controlled Senate and was signed by a Democratic President is not the Democrats' fault? Fascinating. Not surprising but fascinating.

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It's not their fault that it isn't as strong as it would be without the Republicans, yes. That doesn't mean they're not responsible for passing it.

Just because a Republican didn't vote for it, doesn't mean they didn't amend the shit out of it. You understand that part, right?

Completely, despite the fact that I oddly left an "ly" off "Democratically."

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I hope the rage and fear isn't warranted, but I believe it will be.

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Not at that level. (What do you realistically see as a probable worst-case scenario?)

I know most people have moved on but Ars Technica has been running an interesting series on the IT operations of the Romney and Obama campaigns:

http://arstechnica.com/series/election-tech-2012/

Quote from newest article:

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Originally Posted by ArsTechnica

The Romney campaign spent $23.6 million on outside technology services—most of it on outside "digital media" consulting and data management. It outsourced most of its basic IT operations, while the Obama campaign did the opposite—buying hardware and software licenses, and hiring its own IT department. Just how much emphasis the Obama campaign put on IT is demonstrated by the fact that the campaign's most highly paid staff member was its CIO, Michael Slaby, with an annualized salary of about $130,000.

By comparison, Kevin Rekowski, the Romney campaign's Director of Technology, was barely in the top 20 salaries of the Romney campaign, with an annualized salary of $80,000. Zac Moffatt, Romney's Digital Director —a social media planner, not a technology expert—was number five, at $175,000 a year, in addition to whatever he earned from hiring his own firm, Targeted Victory, to handle much of the Romney campaign's digital strategy.

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The short of it is that Obama's campaign built its IT operations in-house using existing technologies while Romney's campaign outsourced it to Microsoft and a bunch of consultants to build it for them, with core work being done on the cheap. Romney's system didn't work on election day while Obama's worked flawlessly.

I've also heard stories about how Romney's campaign was spending up to 50% more on ads than the Obama campaign, with consultants getting the extra kickback. It's funny, because all we heard from Romney is that he is an experienced businessman while Obama is not. Romney's campaign was run like an old-school political campaign with a generous slush fund while Obama's was run more like an efficient business on tight deadlines.

Big business hiring consultants that can't get the job done? Color me surprised.

Office Space: The Campaign :cry:

Re: Obama = leftist

Only in America can a center-right pol who would easily be recognized as a Conservative MP in Britain (or any other first-world democracy) be characterized as a "leftist."

'Murica!

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

Re: Obama = leftist

Only in America can a center-right pol who would easily be recognized as a Conservative MP in Britain (or any other first-world democracy) be characterized as a "leftist."

'Murica!

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If America ever abandons its constitutional republican system in favor of democracy, we should probably take that into account.

Hush, it is more fun to call it a democracy

Meach has a point. Everywhere there is or soon will be 25% unemployment, Obama would be a conservative.

But Europeans do things, Yoshi!

They do things and have stuff! Why can't we do things and have stuff?

All there stuff looks so nice. You're so mean Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Meach has a point. Everywhere there is or soon will be 25% unemployment, Obama would be a conservative.

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Um, no.

Doonesbury is great this week. The Math & Science Victory Lap!

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Meach has a point. Everywhere there is or soon will be 25% unemployment, Obama would be a conservative.

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You mean all the places where the conservatives got their way, responding to the financial crisis with austerity measures, against the advice of practically every economist on earth?

Please pick a story and stick with it. There either aren't conservatives in those countries, or Obama isn't even remotely one. You can't have it both ways.

The US has a one party system with a right wing and an extreme right wing.


You fucks are screwed either way.

Go the fuck away.

Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Please pick a story and stick with it. There either aren't conservatives in those countries, or Obama isn't even remotely one. You can't have it both ways.

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Wait, what? I don't think you understand the argument. It has nothing to do with how far right their right is and everything to with how far left our "left" isn't. On the complete spectrum, with totally unregulated capitalism at the absolute right and full-blown Marxism at the absolute left, very few American politicians are even slightly left of center. The baseline assumption that capitalism is good is all but universally accepted; our "left" just wants to bolt socialist programs onto it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You can't have it both ways.

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Your mom has it both ways.

Josh has been gone for like, months, and I still have to fucking spread reputation before I can rep Josh.

Edit: There is a 0% chance that won't be hit with entendres.

Nothing is more deserving of rep than a canned "your mom" response.
I will rep him for you.

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Originally Posted by The Gas

Wait, what? I don't think you understand the argument. It has nothing to do with how far right their right is and everything to with how far left our "left" isn't. On the complete spectrum, with totally unregulated capitalism at the absolute right and full-blown Marxism at the absolute left, very few American politicians are even slightly left of center. The baseline assumption that capitalism is good is all but universally accepted; our "left" just wants to bolt socialist programs onto it.

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I see you've been taking lessons from Frogacuda. There is way more to the spectrum than economics, and my point was that there is no such thing as a conservative on that spectrum running any of the countries you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by The Gas

Wait, what? I don't think you understand the argument. It has nothing to do with how far right their right is and everything to with how far left our "left" isn't. On the complete spectrum, with totally unregulated capitalism at the absolute right and full-blown Marxism at the absolute left, very few American politicians are even slightly left of center. The baseline assumption that capitalism is good is all but universally accepted; our "left" just wants to bolt socialist programs onto it.

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An unregulated free market is not "capitalism." I really wish people would stop that. Capitalism is a carefully balanced system wherein the big companies are forced to compete with the little companies and where it's hard to stay on top, so there's a constant need for innovation and new ways to compete. We've drifted away from capitalism over the past few decades, and we need to bring it back.

It's one of the big rhetorical problems we're facing right now, where people think if they push too the right, they're always moving TOWARD capitalism, and the kind of policy that benefits the economy, but instead they've shot way past it. North Korea and Marxism are the opposite extremes (unchecked consolidated private ownership vs complete public ownership) and it's interesting that the two are often mistaken for each other. Capitalism is in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I see you've been taking lessons from Frogacuda. There is way more to the spectrum than economics, and my point was that there is no such thing as a conservative on that spectrum running any of the countries you're talking about.

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No such thing as a conservative by American standards. I think that's the point. The US and the rest of the world are so out of touch that their right is our left and our left is their right.

I don't think there's an objective "center" to politics by which we can establish a "true" right or left. I don't think that was what anyone was trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

No such thing as a conservative by American standards. I think that's the point. The US and the rest of the world are so out of touch that their right is our left and our left is their right.

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Right. But that makes the global spectrum wider, which was my entire point earlier. If Obama is not to the left of any of these "conservatives" in Europe, then they aren't conservatives in terms of the global spectrum.

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

I will rep him for you.

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http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1353727196