Election Thread 2016

This has been the weirdest election. No one was particular happy at work today. It was a pretty quite day. The managers left on time.

One of my lab employees seemed happy about it. Another was silently unhappy. I didn't see much other than that. Of the three or four people I talked to that voted for him, none of them really liked him. They were wary of him. They weren't sure what he would do. If he would make good. None of them liked Hillary.

Similarly the election yesterday was oddly silent. Trump and Hillary were oddly silent.

So much silence.

Plato was a smart man.

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Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

I'm kind of terrified of this.
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/hist...p-a3fefd154714

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Woah.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Trump permanently destroyed the Bush dynasty and the Clinton dynasty in one election cycle. #MAGA

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Don't they both have cute daughters? We'll see.

Hillary Clinton worked her entire life to be President and lost to a guy literally named Hussein and then a fucking reality TV star.

Chelsea's not going near this shit.

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Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

I'm kind of terrified of this.
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/hist...p-a3fefd154714

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Good stuff. I am not sure how long Trump will be president though. I think he is a one-termer which will limit the damage he can do (assuming he is not replaced by another demagogue). But the Brexit thing is scary and it could definitely be the first domino to drop.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Hillary Clinton worked her entire life to be President and lost to a guy literally named Hussein and then a fucking reality TV star.

Chelsea's not going near this shit.

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What happened to them along the way? A part of me likes the Hilary in those college photos. But there is just something very flat and empty about her now.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

What happened to them along the way? A part of me likes the Hilary in those college photos. But there is just something very flat and empty about her now.

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https://youtu.be/b6zf5VkuiEQ

Interesting.

I wonder how Samantha Bee feels about playing a hand in Trump winning.

If liberals want to win in 2020 they need to cancel all these "let's laugh at how stupid everyone who isn't us is" shows

Similarly I think the right will have to drop that everyone else is satan.

Just a hunch but someone might be about to play that one out.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Similarly I think the right will have to drop that everyone else is satan.

Just a hunch but someone might be about to play that one out.

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Well, Trump did drop that shit, look at how it worked out.

Not sure what the on the ground folks are saying in MS or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Don't they both have cute daughters? We'll see.

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Oh, gross. Them chicks is not cute.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

I wonder how Samantha Bee feels about playing a hand in Trump winning.

If liberals want to win in 2020 they need to cancel all these "let's laugh at how stupid everyone who isn't us is" shows

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Suuuuuuure.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

Suuuuuuure.

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Read the article Hero posted.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

holy shit I was about to post that

this thing about plato is pretty scary

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ald-trump.html

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holy shit. that was penned months ago. my god.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Read the article Hero posted.

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I did.

When I read an article like this, I realize these kinds of Liberals don't get it any more than fundamentalist rights do. While I too would have preferred Clinton it's not hard to see that she was a highly flawed candidate all the same. There will be another woman coming up behind her someday, and on that day I hope she's not rife with election-rigging and 30 years of bad blood baggage.

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

Yes, I'd vote for Michelle as POTUS. Seriously.

Hillary, a former Senator and Secretary of State, would be better than Zero Experience Donald. ZED will probably be a mere figurehead, and I guess it may truly be (Indiana Governor) Pence calling the shots when he is VP. If Hillary had won, she'd have a former POTUS in the White House with her to lend help. Melania Knauss-Trump will not be able to offer ZED that sort of help.

So Putin hates Hillary. Forget him. I'd rather have our relations with Russia go into the john than endure 4 years of Trump. Yes, I'd accept a Second Cold War.

The Electoral College is an overcomplicated travesty and needs to be sacked. If it were decided by the POPULAR vote, then Hilary Clinton would be the one. Shame it doesn't go this way. In the EC system some small states are worth hardly any "electoral votes".

Hopefully by 2020 people who voted for Trump (or a 3rd party... thank you, Johnson & nutjob Stein for being glorified vote sponges! ) will think again and kick themselves. I'm beginning to think third parties should be ineligible for POTUS. Libertarian, Green Party? Joke parties. But I'm not laughing when they got votes that could've gone to Clinton.

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I don't recall you yelling about the EC the two times Obama was elected President. That doesn't strike you as unfair?

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

I wonder how Samantha Bee feels about playing a hand in Trump winning.

If liberals want to win in 2020 they need to cancel all these "let's laugh at how stupid everyone who isn't us is" shows

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Absolutely. The party that prides itself on being above hatred sure does a lot of demonizing. Myself included. We need to start listening to the people we're constantly delegitimizing.

And all of the "well, I guess there are more sexist and racists than we thought" post mortem talk demonstrates how far away we are from doing this. No, Michigan is not full of racists. It's full of people who were ruined by free trade agreements.

That Trump did better with Latino and black voters than Romney is something we need to pay attention to. That says it all, really.

That said, Bee is still right about us defanging Hillary, though.

See you later, shitlords. We're taking our legal weed and all the porn with us, too.

lol California

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Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me

Absolutely. The party that prides itself on being above hatred sure does a lot of demonizing. Myself included. We need to start listening to the people we're constantly delegitimizing.

And all of the "well, I guess there are more sexist and racists than we thought" post mortem talk demonstrates how far away we are from doing this. No, Michigan is not full of racists. It's full of people who were ruined by free trade agreements.

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Yea it's pretty bad. They haven't learned. They are very dumb people who do not seem to be able to think for themselves.

It hurts Dems in many ways. One way is that the current left wing process of shaming anyone who doesn't agree with them encourages people who do not agree with them to keep their opinions to themselves. So then when pollsters come around they say nothing and the polls say Dems are doing better than they are. Then without complete information they can't run a complete campaign. My guess is that this played a big factor in the incorrect polling in the Rust Belt states.

This is why we need an online culture that values and respects free speech. Not "it's ok to get someone fired for expressing their opinion on Facebook as long as the government isn't doing it" speech. It's the only way we actually know where the public debate stands.

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Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me

No, Michigan is not full of racists. It's full of people who were ruined by free trade agreements.

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This needs to be shouted from the mountaintops. Getting to this understanding is important.

Where I differ, though, from the cautious optimism of the Docs and Diffs and whatnot is that I don't see a path to fix it and I don't believe the election of Trump is a step in the direction of doing so. I'd like to believe that control of all three branches won't lead to the things Republicans have been aiming at but to think they won't try is silly, and to not be worried about the results of those tries has to come from not being affected by them. So while I could have worded things differently, I'm not going to dismiss my wife's concerns, or those of the people I know who will be affected in a very real way by those changes because some people in Pennsylvania and Michigan had good reasons for why they voted.

Anyway, no denials that I'm a smug shamer. Ok, so I'm done. Good riddance to me. Don't let the door hit me on the way out. Except I'm still physically here. Unlike other knowers, I seem to have no problem with being wrong. I thankfully still seek to understand.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

This is why we need an online culture that values and respects free speech. Not "it's ok to get someone fired for expressing their opinion on Facebook as long as the government isn't doing it" speech. It's the only way we actually know where the public debate stands.

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I have, at least, enough self-awareness to know that I'm not the type of person in that second sentence. I'm more than happy to have my, "You're an idiot for having that opinion," argument be the end of the line. (I know I've spoken on the Yale Halloween costume thing but you'll have to trust me that there's WAY more to it than that safe space bullshit and that I have other bids on that auction.)

I don't see the actioners being aware of that or changing their path, though, and I don't see a way to fix it.

Let's not pretend the right doesn't treat the "wrong" people like idiots

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Let's not pretend the right doesn't treat the "wrong" people like idiots

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Is that what lead to Trump's election, though? We can address that after addressing the disrespect portion from the side that caused this (the Calliander side).

I'm ok with someone calling someone else an idiot on twitter. Debates are part of it. That's fine. It's the attempts to shut down or ban or get people fired or what not that's the problem.

If banning all the Deplorable Pepes from Twitter would make racism or whatever go away that's one thing, but it does not do that. It does the opposite, it gets people fired up no with a justifiable persecution complex. Ideas can only be defeated with ideas.

It's part of his platform. All of it was black and white shit that had no compromise for the other side.

Building walls. Banning Muslims. That isn't the words of someone that even kind of respects the other party.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Let's not pretend the right doesn't treat the "wrong" people like idiots

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When Savage says that liberalism is a mental disorder, he's doing the same shit. The thing is I want to see Democrats win elections. I think they're fucking it all up.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

It's the attempts to shut down or ban or get people fired or what not that's the problem.

...

Ideas can only be defeated with ideas.

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Yup. If people don't tell us their opinions we can't discuss them. If people can't tell us their opinions, not only is our chance for discussion shut off but we also isolate ourselves from them. <3

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

It's part of his platform. All of it was black and white shit that had no compromise for the other side.

Building walls. Banning Muslims. That isn't the words of someone that even kind of respects the other party.

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During this election I said, "Anyone who seriously wants to build a wall and ban Muslims does not wish to be a part of this society." That stands. Those people didn't win the election for him. I didn't say that because I thought there was a serious threat of a wall being built or mass deportations or whatever. I said that because those things won't happen.

What can happen is he tries to do something about the economy. Obama tried. I wouldn't say he failed but he didn't do enough. That a majority reason for Obama's falling short is actually the House, that doesn't matter. Trump says he'll try. Hillary paid lip service to the economy.

I suspect he won't get anything done OR it will be worse. In either instance, he's out in four years unless Dems run another Hillary. EDIT: OR, I guess, maybe worst fears come true and we have a tyranny. In that case, there's always New Zealand or whatever?

DOUBLE EDIT: How ripe that, in the end, it was the economy, stupid. But don't let that delegitimize the fears of women, minorities, gays, whatnot.

I typed it up and my phone ate it but imo white men are tired of taking one for the team. And I'm not talking rural women should make babies and cook, men. I'm talking educated north east and west coast men that have been voting for progressives only for their jobs to be sent away.

I think some how the social contract was forgotten. Or minorities don't know there is one. Your progress shouldn't make my life worse. And I'm not talking mra wah wah life was easier when I could club a women and rape her. I mean, the person pushing for gay marriage needs to stop supporting the Patriot act or tpp.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Your progress shouldn't make my life worse. And I'm not talking mra wah wah life was easier when I could club a women and rape her. I mean, the person pushing for gay marriage needs to stop supporting the Patriot act or tpp.

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Precisely. More <3

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Originally Posted by No One

See you later, shitlords. We're taking our legal weed and all the porn with us, too.

lol California

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This needs to not happen for the sake of balance in global politics. You know once one state secedes, others will try to follow. Then comes a weaker America run by somebody that may not uphold international agreements.

California can't even provide power and water to their state

Yeah but we should show those people how dependent they are on us smart people doing all the smarting around here! Serves our political opponents right for supporting a guy who talks about punishing political opponents.

California as an independent nation would be a third world country within a decade.

most of it already is.

I'm just sitting here being smug about cali and parts of nyc reacting like the south when Lincoln won.

Oh it is going to be so fucking delicious when one of you west coasters drag out your "but muh south is traitors" the next time states rights and the civil war comes up.

HA HA HA you can't leave. You're stuck with this asshole. And if you try to leave and take any fed property with you, you will be declaring war.

Delicious.

Nobody is going anywhere. And don't act like you've never heard of Texit.

These are the natural reactions of people who have been telling each other they're so much better than everyone else. They'll figure it out eventually.

Edit; http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commenta...election-2016/

I find the science denial aspect to all this especially worrying.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/mee...modern-history

nice.

On a related note, how awful is it that the cynical side of me sees the sudden bevy of "donate to the ACLU!" posts as maybe a bit too opportunistic.

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Originally Posted by No One

See you later, shitlords. We're taking our legal weed and all the porn with us, too.

lol California

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Can you take on the US military? No? Ok, you're not going anywhere.

Cascadia now!

Did they kiss? Will they tell?

Click for full size

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Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me

Absolutely. The party that prides itself on being above hatred sure does a lot of demonizing. Myself included. We need to start listening to the people we're constantly delegitimizing.

And all of the "well, I guess there are more sexist and racists than we thought" post mortem talk demonstrates how far away we are from doing this. No, Michigan is not full of racists. It's full of people who were ruined by free trade agreements.

That Trump did better with Latino and black voters than Romney is something we need to pay attention to. That says it all, really.

That said, Bee is still right about us defanging Hillary, though.

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It's also that you can't just boil everyone down to the person they vote for. These candidates, especially in your two party system, are like cable packages. You have to buy the Sports Pack in order to get HBO—even though you don't want that. Multiple party systems are good for that exact reason. At least your candidates vary to a great degree. If Bernie, Trump, Hillary and Cruz were your four options the election would have been far more representative of the countries desires.

Agreed.

That's what I hate about both sides. I voted the way I did because A, B, and C were on the platform and weren't on the alternative's. But since the alternative's supporters are against D, which I may be against too, but not enough to give up A, B, and C- I'm automatically for it and thus an evil person. Fuck that.

I'm so over hearing people blame this election on people that voted third party.

How many electoral college votes did Johnson get?

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Originally Posted by Josh

I'm so over hearing people blame this election on people that voted third party.

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Maybe they should have picked a better person?

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

How many electoral college votes did Johnson get?

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Same as your mother

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Maybe they should have picked a better person?

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Maybe if everyone voted for who they actually want instead of who they think they should we'd not be stuck in this two party bullshit. I know it requires thinking more than a few weeks into the future, but come on.

I voted 3rd party so don't bring that shit to my door.

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Originally Posted by Josh

Maybe if everyone voted for who they actually want instead of who they think they should we'd not be stuck in this two party bullshit. I know it requires thinking more than a few weeks into the future, but come on.

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I'm not sure why the media is against it, either. It would give MORE gaffs, speeches, debates, and other political horseshit to cover instead of non-stop spinning. Your election cycles are pretty much the worst too. You get a year or two of relief, then it's back to the information grind about your next candidates. No wonder this is so many people's identity.

I still don't really understand trumps hate speech.

He didn't talk about that stuff before. And it doesn't seem to be why people voted for him.

A lot of people are scared right now and it all seems kind of needless. He didn't need to engage racists to win this.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

I still don't really understand trumps hate speech.

He didn't talk about that stuff before. And it doesn't seem to be why people voted for him.

A lot of people are scared right now and it all seems kind of needless. He didn't need to engage racists to win this.

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It's all marketing. BLM, white frailty, etc. made previously liberal whitey feel like the enemy and separated from minorities. The media's obsession with identity and the fact whitey will be the minority soon, compounded this. The reason minorities voted for Trump more than they have any other GOP canidate is an indicator of just how bad the media played up the race factor. Anyone, regardless of identity, who wanted to just go back to 1980-2000s color blind society voted Trump and that is what he sold with his anti-media crusade.

Eh, I don't think he was selling the 1990s. He was talking about banning certain religions from entering the country.

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Originally Posted by Josh

I'm so over hearing people blame this election on people that voted third party.

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They don't understand numbers.

http://i.imgur.com/TOGIbcP.jpg

Ah, the 90s, before Obama invented racism.

Click for full size

The man just needed diapers.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

He didn't talk about that stuff before. And it doesn't seem to be why people voted for him.

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I don't think it's the primary reason why everyone votes for him, or even the majority of people voted for him. But there is definitely a large amount of humans that this kind of rhetoric resounds with — same as the "rigged system" comments he threw out often and woefully in the last two debates. My biggest concern about Trump are those comments—not just the absurdity but how harmful they are to these minority groups. They posture that it's okay to yell at Muslims and insult their religion. His VP choice of Pence kind of backed that.

This is a copy (somewhat edited) from Facebook, and I'd phrase it differently here, but you get the point:

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Here's my number one concern: What happens to my healthcare?
I currently pay very little a month under 'Obamacare' to get the 2 medicines I need to stay alive. Trump has pledged to repeal that, and replace it with a vague "Capitalism," by selling insurance across state boundaries. I don't trust capitalism to take care of my needs. I trust it to take care of making money. That's really the ultimate goal of the philosophy. If it's more cost-effective to leave me out, it will be so - as has been proven by the industry, forever.

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Yeah, you're pretty fucked. My buddy with Type 2 diabetes is fucked, too.

The Cowboys are on top of the NFC. Trump won the election. And yet, nothing but radio silence.

You guys must've done something pretty bad to piss off Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Josh

Maybe if everyone voted for who they actually want instead of who they think they should we'd not be stuck in this two party bullshit. I know it requires thinking more than a few weeks into the future, but come on.

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I'm pretty openly libertarian, and I didn't even vote third party--in a year that pretty much demands it. Nothing will ever change.

Hey guys, my insurance goes away in January. If I told you how much my medication cost you wouldn't even believe me! I could put every cent that I make in a month towards that, and my doctors visits and it wouldn't come close to covering it. America!

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The Cowboys are on top of the NFC. Trump won the election. And yet, nothing but radio silence.

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I KNOW, HE MUST BE DEAD.

This is the total irony though:

Yoshi hates the NFL now.
Yoshi does not like Donald Trump.

Yet here we are, the Cowboys are good and there is Republican dominance (let's see how the Electoral College votes ;p) in Congress/Presidency.

YOSHI POST IF YOU ARE NOT DEAD

ps I hate the healthcare/insurance industry (note, I put a slash, not a space, on purpose) with the passion of 1,000 fiery suns

Yoshi is still on Twitter being foul. He's fine.

Yoshi has a Twitter account?

yossydesune

oh.

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Originally Posted by Josh

Hey guys, my insurance goes away in January. If I told you how much my medication cost you wouldn't even believe me! I could put every cent that I make in a month towards that, and my doctors visits and it wouldn't come close to covering it. America!

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Oh yeah, also, my buddy works for a solar company. So he's double fucked - loses his job (which didn't provide medical plan) once the energy stuff gets reworked, and then he gets to DIE when he can't afford his medication.

You in the same boat? We gonna lose Josh to this?

I mean, in the end, shoulda made better choices. Amirite?

Yeah, if I don't get my meds, I either kill myself, or some of the people around me. That's how this'll play out. I can't afford the meds on the retail market.

Maybe I'll start breaking into your houses and stealing to get my fix.

Yoshi is talking shit about Maria Abramovic on twitter. Fight me irl, bro.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

Yeah, if I don't get my meds, I either kill myself, or some of the people around me. That's how this'll play out. I can't afford the meds on the retail market.

Maybe I'll start breaking into your houses and stealing to get my fix.

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Can you order them online like the trannies on 4chan get spiro?

Do we know why Yoshi abandoned us?

Because you aren't good enough.

Because he'd rather shout into the wind than towards a bunch of people that have known him for a while.

I give him credit for just leaving, as opposed to the whole ex-girlfriend farewell speech thing. That's how I intend to do it, as well, when the time comes.

I don't think anyone's done the speech thing in over a decade.

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Originally Posted by GohanX

Because you aren't good enough.

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I KNEEEWWWW IIIIIIIIITTTT. *Puts makeup over bruises, shuffles back into kitchen*

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Originally Posted by Calliander

You in the same boat? We gonna lose Josh to this?

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Eventually, yeah. Probably.

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Originally Posted by Josh

Hey guys, my insurance goes away in January. If I told you how much my medication cost you wouldn't even believe me! I could put every cent that I make in a month towards that, and my doctors visits and it wouldn't come close to covering it. America!

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My mom is in the same boat, I'm urging her to ask her doctors if they can double up on dosage on her prescription so she can get twice as much and hopefully square it away for a little while longer? I know thats no solace but it may buy a little time. Usually doctors are pretty darn understanding of stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Josh

Maybe if everyone voted for who they actually want instead of who they think they should we'd not be stuck in this two party bullshit. I know it requires thinking more than a few weeks into the future, but come on.

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A lot of us did, bro.

feel the bern

Good on him. He figured out something TNL figured out earlier on our own.

If any Pogressives are worried Marriage Equality will be reversed, look at Roe v. Wade and Assault Riffles. When Obama was elected, conservatives ran to gun stores and literally bought out ammunition and rifles, thinking they were going to be taken away. 8 years latter, AR-15s are still here. They have also fought Roe v. Wade for 40 years, but it's still unchallenged. Scalia was a hard nosed conservative, any replacement therefore will not change the bench. Ruth or any liberal will have to leave, and if they are replaced by a conservative, a case still has to be brought forth. And by then a Democrat POTUS could put liberal judges on the bench for Thomas et al.

Ugh. *sigh*

Aimed at the video. And everything.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Good on him. He figured out something TNL figured out earlier on our own.

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Were Trump supporters the only ones listening to Michael Moore??

I'm not so much concerned about SCOTUS-related things as those bullshit "religious freedom" laws. If it was my plan to take out things like marriage equality or abortion rights on a court level, I'd start with those and get a case escalated. But I'd also be happy with Trump signing one of those bills. I am worried that the accounts of really vile behavior toward women/minorities are not being overstated, too.

I love that English guy screaming at the camera but the vote was much simpler than "they called me stupid" by the way. GDP. Democrat apathy/lousy candidate. I know the web wants to take credit for it but those are time-tested reasons. They were helped by that medium, no doubt. And homeboy's definitely not wrong about SJW stuff.

Anyway, I've got hype now for blasting these Republicans in 2017/2018.

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Were Trump supporters the only ones listening to Michael Moore??

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I admittedly didn't watch that video until after I came to the same conclusion.

I didn't watch the video.

But I read the transcript.

Man, living in the rural US, I've seen some vile shit in the past few days. There are plenty of repubs getting great joy out of watching people cry and flip out.

I can only imagine, but when they lose their houses for the second time, they'll cry too.

No one is really talking about it IRL.

But shit at some of the stuff in my feed. I've seen so many joyous posts about how bad some people feel right now.

its like, holy shit dude, those are still people.

Would you say those actions are ... deplorable?

This explains a lot

http://eig.org/recoverymap

The new business map almost overlaps the demo majority counties perfectly.

Of course. The people who used to have everything have been completely decimated by technology. Not the loss of jobs, the literal elimination of jobs by automation. That's what people aren't realizing: these midwest factory jobs aren't coming back if we take our toys and go home. they have been utterly eliminated. These people have no skill sets, no educations, and are unable/unwilling to move to places where there are jobs available. They will continue to lose.

This is the best.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...chmentid=79701

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Originally Posted by Satsuki

Of course. The people who used to have everything have been completely decimated by technology. Not the loss of jobs, the literal elimination of jobs by automation. That's what people aren't realizing: these midwest factory jobs aren't coming back if we take our toys and go home. they have been utterly eliminated. These people have no skill sets, no educations, and are unable/unwilling to move to places where there are jobs available. They will continue to lose.

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automation is over stated.

A lot of it went to china and mexico.

It really is cheaper to have borderline slaves make your stuff.

But yeah, it probably isn't coming back. Not like it was. People don't want to pay what educated Americans want for building a car. You're talking about each facility, at least 500 employees, all making between 25 and 45 a hour.

It's also that cars (and most products) are only designed to last 5-10 years now. Look at these damn typewriters I bought 50, 60, 70 years later and still work fine.

Trump's plan. Naturally, I don't like the regressive energy stuff or the damn wall. But, boy I hope he completes all the anti-Washington stuff, fuck Mitch.

With the way the world works, he'll probably get the shit that sucks for the rest of us, while people fight him tooth and nail on the shit we need.

I don't know why repubs fight renewable energy so hard. It makes fucking jobs.

And repubs even came up with environmentalism. You know who started it? Fucking hunters.