The Obama Presidency

It's not really a problem with the party system. Parties can't make you vote one way or the other. It's really a problem with shitheads who care more about the party than the country.

And right now, that's Republicans. Republicans vote as a unified bloc in a way Democrats do not. They don't HAVE to do this.

The fact is, the republicans don't believe in democracy. At all. They're holding the government hostage to get what they want and only what they want. This is not how it's supposed to be done, and it's completely fair to call them out for it and hold them accountable for it.

What's your defense of this shit, Yoshi? You seem fairly resigned to it at the least.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

I may be poor on my political history, but is it the case that we are getting more partisan as the years go by? Or does it just seem really bad now and therefore I am justifying it by saying it is worse than ever?

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I think we've been gradually getting more partisan since the rise of multiple 24 hour news networks who need to fill time with passionate, apocalyptic opinion shows. While people were always fiercely divided on particular issues, I feel like this segregating of IDEAS into neat packages on different networks has made this country more uniformly binary than it was.

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Originally Posted by Error

Barrie. And I don't mean that we have snow right now.

And really? Hamilton? That's an insult.

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Oh, I know it's not snowing now. But I was wondering if you were near Toronto, as our snow has been laughable the last few years.

Hamilton is Toronto's Brooklyn. DIDN'T YOU KNOW!? (I'm going there in a week.)

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Hey Drew, remind me to reply to you tonight. I want to type a very long-winded post but work is piling up.

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I'll send you a PM or something but I don't actively post on TNL outside of work much these days.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

Hamilton is Toronto's Brooklyn. DIDN'T YOU KNOW! (I'm going there in a week.)

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Why are people loling this Hamilton then?

Also, Toronto, stop comparing yourself to New York. Please. You too, Atlanta.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

You realize that taxes can't possibly be lower for corporations and people making millions of dollars, right? The U.S. has labor laws, third world shitholes don't.

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People making millions of dollars don't get taxed at all because they take their earnings offshore through loopholes and legal contortionist practices. That's the real-world issue with globalism. Corporations don't have to yield to the laws of the land in one country (relatively - they still have obligations) because they can just go to another country that doesn't have them.

Yet the 250kers who bust their ass in middle management or starting up their own businesses take it up the backside. Someone who makes 250k IS NOT rich. I realize to someone who makes 30k a year (and is happy) may think that. But someone who makes 250 probably earned it and keeps a small to medium amount of people under him gainfully employed. Which means if Daddy Government is dipping in to his pocket he's getting pinched or he has to cut some fat or make up for it somewhere else.

The issue here ALWAYS comes back to uber corporate interests. Tony Hayward is protected by Britain. He didn't lose a dime (other than maybe of stock) of his personal fortune for polluting your and Mexico's gulf.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

But he's wrong. He's wrong that a single ideology had "control," and even a cursory examination of ANY function of federal government would reveal this to be the case.

Just because democrats have a majority doesn't mean liberals have a majority, or even that people willing to support Obama have a majority. All I've seen is deadlock for two years. An attempt to pass healthcare resulted in a bill that largely resembled the compromise proposed by republicans at the onset of the debate, and then vilified as the end of democracy by the very same people at the end.

It's not this binary red/blue thing. We haven't really seen democrats in control because there are a lot more swing democrats than swing republicans and that ends up being a real factor in a system that works on a yea or nay vote. That's just a fact.

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See the problem is that you're blaming the Republicans. You're physically pointing a finger at the Republicans for ruining your precious Democratic presidency, but now you've just admitted the Democratic party is splintered in its direction. That's the true issue - the Democrats aren't devoted to Obama or his plans (or Obama isn't making plans that are in-line with his Democratic base). The Dems had the power, ultimately, and let it slip through their fingers.

That's why it's a bullshit argument. I don't disagree the Republicans act like spoiled 2 year olds on a tantrum. I completely agree. All of their barking lacked the ability to bite behind it.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Someone who makes 250k IS NOT rich.

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Someone who makes 250K probably makes that much because he believes it is not rich. But he will absolutely have everything he needs, most of what he wants, and much more.

Rich people are the most miserable fucks you'll ever meet, whether they make 250k or 30 million, they always want more. That's why they work so hard to get there. They'll never enjoy it. They could get money back from the government and still complain.

Not that they don't deserve what they earn, but there's a certain personality type that gets there, and it isn't the happy and content ones, and as such their complaining tends to ring hollow for me. Vocal complaining is not the same as suffering, there need to be demonstrable effects on spending or well being for me to say it's impacting the economy. Right now I see the economy suffering because people WELL BELOW that line aren't spending what they did, and it isn't because of taxes.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Someone who makes 250K probably makes that much because he believes it is not rich. But he will absolutely have everything he needs, most of what he wants, and much more.

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Someone who builds something successful from the ground up does not deserve to be shackled by unreasonable expectations on his money. It's hard, long, cold, trying work to do this. Not only that but you're consistently making hard decisions that put peoples knickers in a bunch. For someone who makes 250k and gets taxed half or more of it over the course of a year it becomes an issue. In a global economy can I just pick up my business and leave if I'm a mid-sized business? No. But the super rich corps can. Many have moved their HQ to China over the past 3 years, too.

When you tax entrepreneur you hurt people beneath him/her. Because in order to survive he/she has to make cuts or reductions to accommodate. Or make less money altogether and run the risk of defaulting on loans. If Suzy Snackbars Inc. is defaulting on its loans the bank isn't going to want to take a chance on Frog's line of credit, either.

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Rich people are the most miserable fucks you'll ever meet, whether they make 250k or 30 million, they always want more. That's why they work so hard to get there. They'll never enjoy it. They could get money back from the government and still complain.

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Whether they're happy or sad it doesn't matter. Everyone wants to get the most money they can because everyone needs it to live. It gets you other commodities. Money may not buy happiness, but neither does poverty. At least the promise of being able to work hard and get rich helps people pull themselves up by their bootstraps. You're also over-rationalizing rich people. A lot of them are very good well-to-do people with good social skills and conscience.

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Not that they don't deserve what they earn, but there's a certain personality type that gets there, and it isn't the happy and content ones, and as such their complaining tends to ring hollow for me. Vocal complaining is not the same as suffering, there need to be demonstrable effects on spending or well being for me to say it's impacting the economy. Right now I see the economy suffering because people WELL BELOW that line aren't spending what they did, and it isn't because of taxes.

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People well below that line aren't spending what they did, and the solution is to tax the "rich", why? I'm going to use the term "rich" because the people with the amount of money that could be spread around aren't here in your country or mine. They are faceless conglomerates. And they are the ones in the ears of your politicians.

The most dangerous issue with America comes not from people having strong conviction of belief, but people taking those beliefs and forcing them upon others. It's what fixes markets, and rationalizes the government taking over industries under the guise of safety. We need to take this trillion dollars or else we're all going to be poor! We need to turn off the internet or we'll all be without power and comfort!

I am not even saying that the rich shouldn't be taxed, really. I'm saying placing the rich in the crosshairs for taxation isn't going to relieve your country of its financial burden. It's a hollow plan. Find a better one.

Lets drop the talk about the imaginary person making 250k. The rich people who aren't contributing their lot are making a lot more than that. People making over a million dollars in this country pay less than someone making a fraction of that. Hell, the top 20 hedge fund managers - who each pull in over a billion dollars a year, only pay 15% in taxes. That is where the system is fucked.

A millionaire makes over 83k per week. For two million, double that. Three million, triple. And those are the people only paying between 15-20% in taxes while the working people are paying 30% minimum

What "working person" is paying 30%? I don't pay quite that much, and I suspect I am in a higher bracket than what you are talking about.

I'm all for treating the hedge fund income as income and not as capital gains, but how many of those people are there really?