The Obama Presidency

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

All this gun control is about making more involved background checks and "making it harder for the wrong people to buy guns legally" correct?

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which would have zero impact on illegal gun sales. If most of them are through third parties and gun shop owners selling guns illegally, thin this has zero impact. Those crazy fucks will still buy them out of the back of cars and talk their friends who will clear the test into buying them for them.

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

This also means , if you are a sane and lawful person, you should not give a crap about this.

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first they came for the crazies but I said nothing, for I was not crazy

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

Very true the problem is illegal gun selling, but you have to think that making sure the right people buy guns legally can't hurt.

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who are the right people? During the civil rights movement it was upper to middle class white people.

Um...didn't people want laws that had harsher illegal distribution penalties? BTW, I don't care about if they go after crazies...because they are crazy. They are harmful.

And another thing, please don't compare the plight of the gun hobbyist to the civil rights movement. That's just silly.

what defines crazy?

and are you ok with further stigmatizing weakness in men? You're going to see a lot more men not getting help for mental issues if they know they will essentially be punished for being honest about their problems

Right. Because they'll get their guns then.

See, they are crazy to value gun ownership over their own health. Stupid.

These are perfectly definable things. It just takes COOPERATION to do that. Guess who isn't doing that?

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

what defines crazy?

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Umm... how about going into a movie theater and shooting the audience. And don't argue that he did or did not buy his guns illegally. The question was what defines crazy. Do you really need a definition on crazy and that they probably shouldn't be allowed to have guns? Really seems like a no brainer to me. Crazy, psychotic, unstable. Any mental illness at all. You should not be able to own a gun. Nothing against the mentally disabled, but I would never trust them with a gun.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

which would have zero impact on illegal gun sales. If most of them are through third parties and gun shop owners selling guns illegally, thin this has zero impact. Those crazy fucks will still buy them out of the back of cars and talk their friends who will clear the test into buying them for them.

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I said you were right on this subject. It still doesn't change the fact that some lives could probably be saved if it was harder to buy a gun legally. I think certain people have a right to own a gun no matter race, class, or what ever, but there are also a lot of people who clearly should not have firearms and even those who may not seem unstable on the surface may be denied after stricter background checks.

I don't understand why people get up in arms about stricter gun control. If you are sane, law abiding, and have common sense, you will still be able to buy a gun. If you aren't any of these, you probably shouldn't have a fucking gun.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

and are you ok with further signifying weakness in men?

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What the hell are you talking about?

He's saying that people are afraid to get help because then they'll have their guns taken away.

I figured, and saw your response. I was just having trouble comprehending how anyone would or could even argue that in defense. Yes, lets not hurt the poor crazies feelings and take away their guns.

Outlawing all bad stuff from happening ever will simultaneously outlaw most good stuff. Human free will needs to be stopped immediately.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

Outlawing all bad stuff from happening ever will simultaneously outlaw most good stuff. Human free will needs to be stopped immediately.

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Who said anything about outlawing guns? I'm just talking about not letting crazy or stupid people get them legally. Of course it needs to be more difficult to get them illegally as well.

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

Umm... how about going into a movie theater and shooting the audience.

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Right. How do we get this to show up on a mental health evaluation? And how do we get the people who know how to lie on one?

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

It still doesn't change the fact that some lives could probably be saved if it was harder to buy a gun legally.

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Some. Maybe.

But how many lives are worth liberty?

And why are we trying to make legislation that might impact about 30-46% of the US population to save a handful of lives while still avoiding the issues that cause the majority of gun violence in the US?

Can you imagine how much this looks like madness to anyone that sees the whole picture? All this shit to save 5 to 12 lives and impacting a little less than half the population while doing almost nothing about the causes of the other 9000+ gun related murders we have each year?

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Originally Posted by ElCapichan

I don't understand why people get up in arms about stricter gun control. If you are sane, law abiding, and have common sense, you will still be able to buy a gun.

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probably because most adults, if they were honest with their healthcare provider, could be classified with some form of mental illness. Most with at least depression or adult ADD.

It also reeks of abuse. If I didn't like you, and had a few thousand $ to throw away, I could pay your healthcare provider off and have him judge you unfit to own a gun. This invasion of control over yourself violates the whole principle of having the right arm yourself. It goes from a right to a privilege.