The Obama Presidency

If you want to blame Obama for making the redline remark, more power to you, that's at least a viewpoint I can understand (and likely agree with, but I haven't given it much thought).

But if you want to blame him for not following through on what would have been one of the most pointless and un-popular wars in modern history, because he made an ill-advised red-line comment and doesn't want to lose face? That's high school shit right there. Thank GOD he was capable of changing his mind in the face of everything.

If Obama doesn't have "one shred of respect in the international community", it's because he is spying on literally everyone. I guarantee you Bush doesn't have a shred of respect either for all his dick waving.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

First, I in no way am saying Obama is a terrible dad. His kids seem to be well adjusted and have good behavior.

BUT His leadership qualities are like the Bad Parent who wants to be "friends" with their child. So, he makes red lines and veiled threats, but everyone knows if you cross that redline. Nothing will happen. So, what if I'm not supposed to be out past 10pm. What's dad gonna do? Put me in Timeout? Punish me and keep me in my room? Ohhh but I can still use my smartphone, computer, and TV? OKAY!

What he should have done is if he's going to make this RedLine. He should have pre-planned this. Hey if Syria ever does cross the redline. Will you pass a resolution to use force and knock out the chemical storage faculties?

Yet, what he seems like is he making shit up as he goes.

Obama: THEY CROSSED THE RED LINE! SEND IN THE HOUNDS!
Everyone: We don't want to go to war.
Obama: They crossed the line. But okay ... let me keep the ships stationed off the coast, while I consult Congress. HEY SYRIA FEAR THE SHIPS!
Russia: What if we talk to them?
Obama: uh ... REALLY? You can do this?
Russia: Yup.
Everyone: Why didn't you think of this first, Obama?
Obama: .... HerpaDerp?

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This is just sad.

Syrious guys

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Originally Posted by Anthony

But if you want to blame him for not following through on what would have been one of the most pointless and un-popular wars in modern history

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No. I more or less am not blaming him for anything. I am upset that he made the comment to begin with no pre-planning.

if they cross redline ... this happens.
if they cross redline and my decision is unpopular ... this happens.

Mind you they did the last part AFTER they already repositioned the ships off the coast. They should have thought of this before.

It's like his advisors aren't advising him on what the country is thinking. And if they are .... they should get off twitter.

Y'all're mad because Obama didn't keep his word, no matter what that word was, and let Putin out draw 'im diplomatically.

How many times a day are the spittoons in the House emptied?

Obama sucks, but Romney would have sold us to China to pay off the debt by now. We'd all be learning Mandarin while he'd be sipping lemonaid, training horses in the newly annexed Luxembourg state of Utahländer.

This just nails it.

Honest question, should I be bothered that I see lots of quotes attributed to no one specifically? Because I am.

Peggy Noonan. Good lord.

Yoshi has gone full crazy.

So you're disappointed that:

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"...American greatness..."

"...the old America..."

"...pioneering spirit..."

"...a sense that America has entered the room..."

"...mystique..."

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were lost instead of Syrian lives?

Tell me, who holds

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

symbolism over substance

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again?

We didn't enter a new war. I can't really give a rat's ass what other countries think of us.

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Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me

So you're disappointed that:
were lost instead of Syrian lives?

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Please show me where I said we should have attacked Syria.

But mystique! Surely its preservation is worth a handful of dead brownies.

What bilge.

This all sounds like that South Park episode where Japan was almost able to bomb Pearl Harbor because all they needed to do to keep America happy was compliment their huge American penis.

We need to stop worrying about our dick size.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

We didn't do anything. That's the problem.

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What would you have had him do? Deliberate less? Draw fastur?

Not defer to Russia's direction. Kerry's dumb ass should have been negotiating directly from the second we learned about the chemical weapons. It's called leadership.

This is like an Eagles fan being mad that the Eagles won because Shady McCoy scored the winning touchdown when he wanted Michael Vick to score the winning touchdown.

There was no war. That is a win. Does it really matter who brought about that win?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Not defer to Russia's direction. Kerry's dumb ass should have been negotiating directly from the second we learned about the chemical weapons. It's called leadership.

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You mean you thought it would have been possible for America to negotiate the removal of all chemical weapons without military engagement?

Considering nothing has actually occurred yet, I'm not positive that anyone could negotiate the actual removal of all chemical weapons. But to not even try is pretty telling about the current administration's capabilities and reputation.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Not defer to Russia's direction.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

You do realize that Russia is the only country with any influence in Syria, right?

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Maybe Richard Nixon should have played an excuse card with regard to China or Reagan with regard to the USSR instead of actually leading.

edit: I've never seen a President get as many free passes as this clown. And it's not even a Democratic thing. Bill Clinton didn't get this treatment. You voted for him; hold him accountable for fuck's sake.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Maybe Richard Nixon should have played an excuse card with regard to China or Reagan with regard to the USSR instead of actually leading.

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Hilarious right-wing myth about Reagan aside, there is nothing to excuse. It was a bad situation and military strikes were going to be a disaster. The fact that we aren't firing missiles at "military sites" and causing "collateral damage" is the absolute best possible result from all of this. The fact that we got there by working with Syria's lone ally in the UN Security Council is just called diplomacy. It's the way it works. It's what the UN was designed to do.

I know the right loves Presidents when they are huffing and puffing but that's just an act.

And it's all a bit rich to see the right furrow their brow at the idea of a Putin "win"; didn't their guy peer into his soul and like what he saw?

No, the absolute best possible result is that all of the chemical weapons actually get removed, and not a single one has been yet. We shouldn't even be funding the UN, let alone deferring to that corrupt mess.

Russia's goals are actually highly aligned with the United States' on Syria.

Russia doesn't want Assad ousted.

USA doesn't want Islamic militants to gain control of the state.

The thing is, the two are linked! If Assad gets ousted, there's a high probability that Islamic militants gain control of the state.

Only in Yoshi-land can two countries with similar goals working together to solve a bad problem be construed as a failure. Maybe we just needed more flight suits.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

And it's all a bit rich to see the right furrow their brow at the idea of a Putin "win"; didn't their guy peer into his soul and like what he saw?

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Putin actually respected Bush, and maybe the feeling was mutual. Bush certainly never followed Putin's lead though.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Only in Yoshi-land can two countries with similar goals working together to solve a bad problem be construed as a failure.

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You should probably hold off until the problem is actually solved.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Putin actually respected Bush, and maybe the feeling was mutual. Bush certainly never followed Putin's lead though.

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If that is true, it would make him the only one out of hundreds of leaders.

He was the only one leading a super power, so that's kind of the point.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

And it's all a bit rich to see the right furrow their brow at the idea of a Putin "win"; didn't their guy peer into his soul and like what he saw?

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A man who could hold his liquor?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

He was the only one leading a super power, so that's kind of the point.

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They are like the world's 10th biggest gdp (or somewhere around there).

Outside of that, I don't see how their like 1/10th our size military is a horrible threat. Beyond that even the EU far outpaces Russia in military spending, and I am sure they in no way shape or form respected bush.

Oh, you meant Putin was the only one out of hundreds? In that case, it was a nonsense statement, since Bush certainly respected Tony Blair at an absolute minimum.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Oh, you meant Putin was the only one out of hundreds? In that case, it was a nonsense statement, since Bush certainly respected Tony Blair at an absolute minimum.

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hahaha, fair enough. Tony Blair was a fan.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

We didn't do anything. That's the problem. Obama and Kerry's lack of decisiveness led to Putin gaining global clout, which is anything but a win. And then McCain exacerbated the problem by acknowledging him in that op ed piece. It's interesting how no one took Romney seriously when he said Russia was a serious threat. Too bad the clown that theoretically has all the information wasn't that savvy.

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I understand your point here—but the answer wasn't to drop bombs just to prop America up as a decision maker. The goal is to make the right decision that see's the least amount of human casualties. That's what universally all citizenships want. If America dropped the ball by letting bipartisanship bickering give Putin the time to and access to slip in and be the hero then that's on you. Be better diplomats.

So, I guess Coon ass talked to Ol' Whistle Britches, today. That's news I'm sure will upset Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

I understand your point here—but the answer wasn't to drop bombs just to prop America up as a decision maker. The goal is to make the right decision that see's the least amount of human casualties. That's what universally all citizenships want. If America dropped the ball by letting bipartisanship bickering give Putin the time to and access to slip in and be the hero then that's on you. Be better diplomats.

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You and ARBM should go make up things each other said together so that you can continue your imaginary debates.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

They are like the world's 10th biggest gdp (or somewhere around there).

Outside of that, I don't see how their like 1/10th our size military is a horrible threat. Beyond that even the EU far outpaces Russia in military spending, and I am sure they in no way shape or form respected bush.

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Not to take the thread in that direction but this is kind of wrong. Russia and China are the two worst countries we could go to war with. Russia's might is bigger than what it has on paper. It has a ton of shit just sitting that isn't on inventory. If they needed to bring it back, they could. Their war manufacturing was pretty good at its height.

tanks o plenty
and nukes

So no one cares peckerwood talked to flap-jack?

I know I don't. I don't have a huge problem with normal people in Syria. I won't lose any sleep knowing little kids aren't getting blown up in the process of getting bad people.

I was talking about Rouhani.

Can there be any doubt left that these Republicans responsible for the shut down don't actually care about Americans?

Lets vote to repeal it 50 times even though there's no realistic chance and then lets shut down the entire government for the first time in 18 years after reading Green Eggs and Ham instead of just passing a fucking budget. Christ, if they spent half the time trying to fix ACA as they've spent fruitlessly trying to completely defund it, we'd probably have a functioning healthcare law.

They think they're battling stalin's ghost

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Can there be any doubt left that these Republicans responsible for the shut down don't actually care about Americans?

Lets vote to repeal it 50 times even though there's no realistic chance and then lets shut down the entire government for the first time in 18 years after reading Green Eggs and Ham instead of just passing a fucking budget. Christ, if they spent half the time trying to fix ACA as they've spent fruitlessly trying to completely defund it, we'd probably have a functioning healthcare law.

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ding ding ding
That's why the shutdown might be a net positive

Attachment 71947

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Can there be any doubt left that these Republicans responsible for the shut down don't actually care about Americans?

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You mean the guys who worked through the weekend, as opposed to the Senate, who didn't even try to get a deal done?

I'm curious as to how the government being "shut down" impacts you or the vast majority of people anyway. "It must be important! I saw it on the Daily Show!"

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Lets vote to repeal it 50 times even though there's no realistic chance and then lets shut down the entire government for the first time in 18 years after reading Green Eggs and Ham instead of just passing a fucking budget.

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You're aware the Senate hasn't passed a budget, which they are legally required to do, since Obama has been in office, right?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You mean the guys who worked through the weekend, as opposed to the Senate, who didn't even try to get a deal done?

I'm curious as to how the government being "shut down" impacts you or the vast majority of people anyway. "It must be important! I saw it on the Daily Show!"

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A chunk of us are from the DC area. I'm sure you can imagine the impact shutting down the government has to those of us living in that area.

Unless you either are one of or provide service to the non-essential government employees, I wouldn't think it would be all that much. In either case though, Opaque is 3,000 miles away.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You mean the guys who worked through the weekend, as opposed to the Senate, who didn't even try to get a deal done?

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There is no deal to do. Put up the "clean bill" in the House and it passes easily thanks to Dems and moderate Republicans. A crazy, absolutist fringe is holding this up. You can't negotiate with crazy people.

When Peter King wants to put a stop to this nonsense, you know you're off the deep end.

If Republicans want to get rid of the PPACA they should win more elections.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You're aware the Senate hasn't passed a budget, which they are legally required to do, since Obama has been in office, right?

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Not true. http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...-tax-hike?lite

Not that it matters, budgets are irrelevant.

I'll be damned. They actually did something. It was terrible, but at least they did something.

edit: At least those that want to defund Obamacare aren't hypocrites. The Democrats are damn sure that everyone but them should be bent over by it.

Yoshi: Would you rather have pure socialized healthcare rather than PPACA?

Frankly, I don't know which is worse. I think there's a strong chance that Obamacare destroys the quality just as much and with an even higher personal price tag.

Who even cares about oboomacur anymore. It cant hurt me that bad. And if it.hurts the little guy? Fuck it. I cant protect all the small guys from themselves.

I'd guess the people whose premiums will double and triple for what will eventually be worse service probably care.

I was told a story once about how horrible the quality of service was in England. Two questions cleared the whole thing up for me.

Did you get worse? No.

Did you get better? Yes.

(There, of course, was a "but" after the second answer.) Anecdotal, but hey.

As somebody with a person who has 'previously existing conditions', Obamacare is potentially extremely worthwhile. My own personal insurance through work is fantastic (costs for a two-and-a-half-week hospital stay + follow-ups this month were minimal after insurance compared to what they would have been), but we're not pulling in enough yet to add her on my insurance. If it compares to Health SF or MassHealth, Obamacare is completely welcome.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

I was told a story once about how horrible the quality of service was in England. Two questions cleared the whole thing up for me.

Did you get worse? No.

Did you get better? Yes.

(There, of course, was a "but" after the second answer.) Anecdotal, but hey.

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So your argument is that we'll be paying more for possibly the same care. That's quite compelling.

Sounds like your pre existing condition is socialism, Boris.

Well I mean obviously, but modern healthcare is something the US should catch up to.

Here's the thing. If Obamacare is going to be the disaster that Yoshi predicts it is going to be, why not let it happen? Why try so hard to stop it?

If it's a fucking trainwreck, the Republicans can use it to get elected next cycle. All their doing is hurting themselves by trying to stop something that two presidential election victories, the Supreme Court, and the will of the people have already declared as ok to move forward with.

Because it's damn hard to get rid of entitlements once they are implemented. The burdens on society don't care how much it costs everyone else, and, unfortunately, they get to vote.

Tooooo baaaaaad.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

It'll be nice to see the midterm shellacking your party's looking down the barrel of come to pass.

Funny you mention that. If Obamacare is so great, why try to delay key parts of it until after that midterm election? Shouldn't they have wanted to get it to everyone as quickly as possible?

When absolutely everyone who has health insurance has to pay more next year, I think they'll figure out who caused it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The burdens on society don't care how much it costs everyone else, and, unfortunately, they get to vote.

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Yet another reminder that the right-wing is full of some of the worst people.

The poorest of the poor already have a health insurance system. It's shitty but it works alright.

This is for the people who work and make money but can't afford health insurance on their own (self-employed or the like), or work for an employer that doesn't provide it.

I grew up without health insurance. It honestly sucks. PPACA would have been very useful for my family back then, I think. It's not nearly good enough but way better than the disastrous system we had before.

It's so good that they had to make people buy into it or face a fine and then delay it so that they couldn't be held fully accountable in 2014.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

When absolutely everyone who has health insurance has to pay more next year, I think they'll figure out who caused it.

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Health insurance prices were been going up 10% a year from 2000-2010. The idea that 'Obamacare' caused health insurance prices to go up is just comical.

Incidentally the past two years the rate of increase has been closer to 4%.

Save that 10% number and compare it to 2014.

I don't have a crystal ball and neither do you.

I've never seen a Republican discuss PPACA by putting it into context with the trash heap that is the health insurance system before it. That is fundamentally dishonest and in bad faith. If they have a better idea for improving the system and making it better I am all ears. Their "ideas" in the Bush era amounted to shitty HSAs that did nothing to contain costs.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Unless you either are one of or provide service to the non-essential government employees, I wouldn't think it would be all that much. In either case though, Opaque is 3,000 miles away.

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This is a silly argument.

If it doesn't directly effect me it must not matter? I can't be upset for other people? Aren't you a Republican? I can't be upset that people who did nothing wrong aren't receiving paychecks they need, but God forbid two gay guys get married. Your party is all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's so good that they had to make people buy into it or face a fine and then delay it so that they couldn't be held fully accountable in 2014.

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I've had to pay a fine every year for the past five or six years for not having health insurance, thanks to Mitt


I haven't paid it once yet

None of these semantics even matter.

It doesn't matter if you think it's a good law or not. It passed, was signed into law, the Supreme Court found it constitutional, Obama ran heavily on keeping it and was reelected from his second term. How is a government shut down the proper response to that chain of events? No party should shut down the government because they don't always get their way. Winning enough seats in Congress to pass a bill, winning the presidency and having the Supreme Court approve your bill should be the fucking end of it. The people have spoken.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'd guess the people whose premiums will double and triple for what will eventually be worse service probably care.

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Motherfucker I need to to have a uvulectomy done last week. But I'm waiting with this egg sac hanging passed my epiglottis because I have no health care. I have more skin in the game than anyone on this board and I can't get some of my tax dollars back to pay for medically needed surgery? Go fuck yourself in your theoretical ivory tower. You've never started a business or contributed fuck all to the economy so stop acting like you're running away white gloved. You have no skin in the game other than income and property tax, which I find laughably quaint. If I told you what it cost a failing business in taxes for all of last year you'd laugh and then feel sad.

Is anyone watching Fox News? They're saying something about Ted Cruz being Jesus. I can't tell if they mean the messiah or if they're being racist.

Attachment 71948

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Originally Posted by Opaque

This is a silly argument.

If it doesn't directly effect me it must not matter? I can't be upset for other people? Aren't you a Republican? I can't be upset that people who did nothing wrong aren't receiving paychecks they need, but God forbid two gay guys get married. Your party is all over the place.

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I think your first statement was an advertisement for the rest of your post. We have way, way too many government employees, and many of them are grossly overpaid for the skills they have and have ridiculous benefits and job security compared to everyone else. All of that said, there are two million of them. Maybe I'll steal a bullshit phrase from the liberals. We're the other 99%.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

None of these semantics even matter.

It doesn't matter if you think it's a good law or not. It passed, was signed into law, the Supreme Court found it constitutional, Obama ran heavily on keeping it and was reelected from his second term. How is a government shut down the proper response to that chain of events? No party should shut down the government because they don't always get their way. Winning enough seats in Congress to pass a bill, winning the presidency and having the Supreme Court approve your bill should be the fucking end of it. The people have spoken.

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Have they? No one could have intelligently cast a vote based on Obamacare, because half the fucking law wasn't even written yet when it was passed. Even the idiots in Congress who voted for it didn't know what they were voting for, let alone "the people."

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

Motherfucker I need to to have a uvulectomy done last week. But I'm waiting with this egg sac hanging passed my epiglottis because I have no health care. I have more skin in the game than anyone on this board and I can't get some of my tax dollars back to pay for medically needed surgery? Go fuck yourself in your theoretical ivory tower. You've never started a business or contributed fuck all to the economy so stop acting like you're running away white gloved. You have no skin in the game other than income and property tax, which I find laughably quaint. If I told you what it cost a failing business in taxes for all of last year you'd laugh and then feel sad.

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How is forcing you to buy something that you can't afford going to benefit you? I don't dispute your skin in the game one iota, but are you sure you'll really be better off?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I think your first statement was an advertisement for the rest of your post. We have way, way too many government employees, and many of them are grossly overpaid for the skills they have and have ridiculous benefits and job security compared to everyone else. All of that said, there are two million of them. Maybe I'll steal a bullshit phrase from the liberals. We're the other 99%.

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I mean, this board being more dc centric means that if not ourselves, many of us have loved ones that will not have paychecks because of this. My mother works for NASA, and my sister at the patent office will likely be out of a paycheck. My closest friends down in the dc area all work in government related jobs, and I am also working under a government committee, so there have been talks that our work will be suspended as well. I admit it's not a majority of the population, but you happen to be preaching this in a group that might have more related ties than most populations.

@icarus: Obamacare gets funded either way, this government shutdown will do nothing to stop it from moving forwards.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

How is forcing you to buy something that you can't afford going to benefit you? I don't dispute your skin in the game one iota, but are you sure you'll really be better off?

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I think he's gonna knife you in the face. I don't condone that...


...but I understand.

I'm just trying to understand his point of view. There is no one I respect more than small business owners, but I don't follow his logic that he can't afford insurance now but somehow being forced to find a way is beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm just trying to understand his point of view. There is no one I respect more than small business owners, but I don't follow his logic that he can't afford insurance now but somehow being forced to find a way is beneficial.

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You don't understand how someone can't afford an insurance of $N a month, but can afford $N/2 with the other half being subsidized?

I'll believe the $N/2 when I see it. And since the exchanges aren't open yet, no one has seen it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

We have way, way too many government employees, and many of them are grossly overpaid for the skills they have and have ridiculous benefits and job security compared to everyone else. All of that said, there are two million of them.

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I'm not so sure about this. I've looked into it and the pay is lower in my field than the private sector. And of course at the supervisory levels the pay is vastly, vastly lower than the private sector. A high-level manager of a company can easily make millions of dollars a year while a high-level manager of a big agency (like, say, the Dept. of Agriculture) makes $150,000 or so. The fact that a lot of these guys and women move into the private sector where their pay increases 5 times is evidence enough that the government is paying far, far, far below market rate for their skills.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'll believe the $N/2 when I see it. And since the exchanges aren't open yet, no one has seen it.

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For a law you claim to hate, you sure don't know much or have done much research into it.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Family of four making around the median income gets around a 50% subsidy on a "silver" plan. There are limits to the amount a family pays that are written into the law, the law you claim wasn't actually written until after it was passed.

You and I both know there were large TBDs in the law when passed. I neither said nor was implying that a blank piece of paper was passed.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

I'm not so sure about this. I've looked into it and the pay is lower in my field than the private sector. And of course at the supervisory levels the pay is vastly, vastly lower than the private sector. A high-level manager of a company can easily make millions of dollars a year while a high-level manager of a big agency (like, say, the Dept. of Agriculture) makes $150,000 or so. The fact that a lot of these guys and women move into the private sector where their pay increases 5 times is evidence enough that the government is paying far, far, far below market rate for their skills.

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Attachment 71949

Link

So, yes, for actuarial work, they may make less. But the less skills they have, the more overpaid they are compared to their private sector peers.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm curious as to how the government being "shut down" impacts you or the vast majority of people anyway. "It must be important! I saw it on the Daily Show!"

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The Smithsonian is shut down. That's pretty weak.

I pay like 100 a month in insurance. I have no idea how the gov could make that worse.

I wonder what will happen to the republican party in the coming years. Do you think we will have a more radical split than we do now?

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

I pay like 300 a month in insurance. I have no idea how the gov could make that worse.

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When is your 2014 enrollment period?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

How is forcing you to buy something that you can't afford going to benefit you? I don't dispute your skin in the game one iota, but are you sure you'll really be better off?

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If I could be out of pocket 1000 instead of 5000, then fuck yes I'd be better off.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

If I could be out of pocket 1000 instead of 5000, then fuck yes I'd be better off.

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Clearly. Is the SC exchange open today? I'm curious what you're seeing.

http://i.lvme.me/c1ysoch_1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm curious as to how the government being "shut down" impacts you or the vast majority of people anyway. "It must be important! I saw it on the Daily Show!"

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You know how like, 2 days ago you were pissing up a storm about how Obama was gonna let Putin take charge and make us look bad due to Syria or Iran or some other mid east bullshit?

Well you guys just helped make us look fuckin' grade A stupid to the rest of the planet. Way worse than Obama gaffing it up about this or that.

He only cares what the rest of the world thinks when it is something he cares about. If it isn't something he personally wants, their opinions be damned.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

You know how like, 2 days ago you were pissing up a storm about how Obama was gonna let Putin take charge and make us look bad due to Syria or Iran or some other mid east bullshit?

Well you guys just helped make us look fuckin' grade A stupid to the rest of the planet. Way worse than Obama gaffing it up about this or that.

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You really are clueless if you think those things are comparable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

Ladies and gentlemen, America.

This is why "the people have spoken" is such a dumbass statement.

Does your party have a back up plan if Obamacare works as intended and winds up very popular?

Attachment 71955