It's the only reason I go, and then I lift at home.
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It's the only reason I go, and then I lift at home.
I don't know if I agree with everything in this video, but a lot of this shit is pretty current
Can you believe that those electronic town halls of his actually worked? Imagine potential voters/TV watchers today trying to sit down and view that.
I wish we could go back to '92 and keep him in the race.
Except the federal government shouldn't be balancing the budget, so he's totally wrong.
Not totally. Or do you think trickle down works?
And if not the government, who should balance the budget? Or are we going by TNL economics where debt is better than no debt?
Who said anything about TNL economics? Federal government controls the currency, the currency that happens to be the world's reserve currency. They are literally the only institution in the world what I said applies to. Obviously when there is too much deficit spending inflation can set in but we haven't been near that problem since the early 1980's.
Nobody actually really cares about the deficit. Opposition parties whine about the debt when the party in control wants to do something they don't like. Republicans did it with Clinton and Obama (both of them actually fell for that trick, sadly), Dems did it with Dubya (who did not fall for it).
Doesn't the Federal Reserve control the currency?
Ok, well that still isn't everything in the video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
In 1992 he called out the 1%. In 1992 he wanted to put more money in educating all Americans. In 1992 he recognized that our execs are paid way too much, even relative to other countries. And shit, if we would have taken his gas tax, we'd been working on better MPG cars 10 years sooner.
I appreciate all those stances, but in 1992 the political climate just was having none of any of that. I still remember one day in HS sitting outside and every car that drove past me was some enormous 10mpg SUV. Every fucking car. Gas was 92 cents per gallon. MURICA!
He even broke down how much Germany, Japan, and China were going to spend on technology per person.
At 21m he mentions one of the biggest things that would help our system of government. "We must eliminate PACs. We've got to make our elected officials responsive to the people and not to the special interest. That's job one."
I found out its legal to carry an otf switchblade in sc.
That wouldn't have really stopped me from it, but it's nice to know it's not going to be a hassle with the cops if I'm stopped.
Will be nice to add a microtech troodon to the collection.
Why is this in the Obama thread?
Because I clicked the wrong thing. Whatever.
Legal? Sure. The cops are still going to use our as an excuse to cuff your ass, throw you on the ground and search your car. You just won't go to jail afterwards.
Yeah, but they can do that if his car is messy. Or if the sun is going down and his eye dilates to compensate.
Murrica
Basically this. I'm all business when I go to the gym.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I don't mind glancing at the hunnies for a sec between sets, however, but it's certainly not why I go.
This video is interesting, but this is in no way a video of some rogue savant whose figured society out. Go and watch any random episode of All in the Family from the 70s. Israel, economics, civil rights and all sorts of shit that people don't even talk about today were regularly argued by Archie and his son in law or the Jeffersons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
His explanation of PACs however is pretty amazing considering they weren't discussed on TV much until John Stewart and Stephen Colbert brought them up.
These are themes that have persisted since the dawn of time in organized society and will continue to.
Why would you bother pointing this out when Perot acknowledges this in literally the first fifteen seconds of the clip?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
This being recorded in '92 was being stressed. My point is that these problems will continue to exist (I know Perot's point was we weren't learning from Cicero too).
And as a secondary point his bullet points in the first 15 seconds seem very focused on a gold-backed currency, which is not how things are.
You're he'll bent on out cheek'n me today, aren't you?
The United States has the right to access data on servers stored anywhere in thee world? Apparently.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...fight-with-us/
That seems consistent with freezing overseas assets, but that doesn't make it right.
Thanks again to everyone who voted for this authoritarian douchebag who was wrong about absolutely everything. Good call.
Woah flashback to talking about Bush for eight years.
Not even the same zip code
One built on the other's bullshit. So really this is your fault.
I'd like to hear how it's Bush's fault Obama destabilized the Middle East, completely botched Russian policy, and unilaterally changes the rules and enforcement thereof at every opportunity, including infringing on people's rights.
*cough*
It's somewhat impressive, for lack of a more derogatory word, that the piece of shit has brainwashed so many people into parroting "blame Bush" for almost six years.
A POX ON THE PHONY KING OF ENGLAND
OODALOLLY
I mean, it's accurate for *so many things* but yeah, that is a thing people say!
Yoshi, to be fair all of our presidential candidates have sat on the authoritarian douchebag side of the chart for a while now.
It's a complete lack of leadership is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
They say that too! Remember that time that a couple buildings got knocked over and the baby boomers thought it was Pearl Harbor again or some shit and we invaded a desert for forty some odd years going into the future? That was wild.
I don't dispute that, but you have to admit the current national embarrassment has raised the bar considerably. Anonymous would have gotten bored under Bush by comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Hard to say. They were mostly just posting CP in that time period.
And completely crippled those responsible, until the community organizer came along and got "them on the run" all the way to taking back most of Iraq and beheading American civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Wait, who destabilized the Middle East?
So what would you do, Yoshi? Recommit ground troops for another 10-year war in Iraq? If so, what's the endgame?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Are you gonna sign up?
Let me ask you this: does it even matter where the American civilians were beheaded? What if they were filmed in someone's backyard in Baltimore made to look like a desert in Iraq? Same result?
Your mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Incorrect, the only correct answer is the British and French following WWI
I wouldn't have pulled out in the first place until Al Qaeda and related groups were incapacitated to the point it would take a generation for them to rebuild. I'm not sure that requires a full ground force but rather a continuous series of assassinations that would be better handled clandestinely. I sure as hell wouldn't have gone against the recommendations of guys who actually have a clue in military matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
Not at my age and with a dependent as my top priority, but I'd be perfectly content if most of my taxes went to properly fund it.Quote:
Are you gonna sign up?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking here. If a foreign national recorded the beheading of an American for propaganda purposes on American soil, what would I do? I'd eradicate whatever organizational construct was responsible with extreme prejudice. If you mean some idiot American in Baltimore, I'd hope he gave the police an excuse to put him down, since I don't think Maryland has the balls to do it.Quote:
Let me ask you this: does it even matter where the American civilians were beheaded? What if they were filmed in someone's backyard in Baltimore made to look like a desert in Iraq? Same result?
So permanent ground occupation of Iraq, then. What "guys who actually have a clue in military matters" were recommending that, exactly? Would this permanent ground occupation have prevented the abduction and beheading of these American journalists?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You might be surprised to learn that permanent ground occupation of Iraq is not exactly a popular course of action in the military and among veterans.Quote:
Not at my age and with a dependent as my top priority, but I'd be perfectly content if most of my taxes went to properly fund it.
I'm saying that no one gave a shit about ISIS until those videos aired. If it came out that they were filmed somewhere else outside of Iraq or Syria, would it matter? Would you still advocate for indefinite ground occupation of foreign countries if they were filmed outside of Iraq?Quote:
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking here. If a foreign national recorded the beheading of an American for propaganda purposes on American soil, what would I do? I'd eradicate whatever organizational construct was responsible with extreme prejudice. If you mean some idiot American in Baltimore, I'd hope he gave the police an excuse to put him down, since I don't think Maryland has the balls to do it.
@Yoshi
You can't honestly believe, now, with hindsight, that the iraq war was a GOOD idea. I mean, Afgan sure, but Iraq?
Why you gotta hate on Baltimore, man.
Holy shit is this a hard thing to Google, but I vividly recall Obama getting advice to not pull out at the time and certainly not to publicly set a time table for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
Thus my previous post, which said that smaller, covert operations may be preferable.Quote:
You might be surprised to learn that permanent ground occupation of Iraq is not exactly a popular course of action in the military and among veterans.
I can disprove that easily. I've been following ISIS for months. Waiting until they feel strong enough to "go public" is a huge missed opportunity, though they wouldn't exist at all had the original strategy been at all well thought out.Quote:
I'm saying that no one gave a shit about ISIS until those videos aired. If it came out that they were filmed somewhere else outside of Iraq or Syria, would it matter? Would you still advocate for indefinite ground occupation of foreign countries if they were filmed outside of Iraq?
It depends on how you define "good idea." It was something that needed to be done, but it absolutely had a high price, regardless of how you measure it. The chemical weapons just wound up in Syria, where Obama let Putin negotiate a completely failed disarmament. Being faster to get there and destroy those is the one big mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Your vivid memory is wrong considering that Obama didn't set the time frame for pulling out, Bush did:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2...rces_Agreement
That was stupid on Bush's part then, but he didn't execute it. If my predecessor drew a map to a cliff, I wouldn't follow it.
Obama didn't have a choice, if he left our troops there they were going to be prosecuted by Iraqi courts because the Iraqi's didn't want to push it out further.
Do you seriously think we have no presence in Iraq right now whatsoever?
No, but we had to pull out the bulk because of that agreement signed by Bush that the Iraqi government was prepared to enforce.
Fair enough. I still don't understand how we let ISIS organize though. Someone was completely asleep at the switch on that.
ISIS was created and organized in Syria.
Why did the chemical weapons honestly matter to us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
And? Were too busy deferring to Putin to negotiate with them to notice, or were we just too naive to care?Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
What were we supposed to do, invade Syria as well?
It depends on the role you think we should play on the global stage. The use of banned weapons against civilians is about as bad as it gets though, so if that doesn't cross your threshold, you'd have to be a big time isolationist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Of course not. But someone should have assassinated all of the key ISIS players very early on. Whether that was literally us or an ally is immaterial. ISIS isn't sovereign in any way, shape, or form. The only way to beat them is to eradicate them like vermin.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Israel wouldn't be the bad guy right now if they had assassinated the heads of Hamas some time ago. Something tells me that's not this easy thing to go do.
Israel hasn't ever been the bad guy, but I understand your point.
I'm a pretty big time isolationist I guess. I generally think we shouldn't move in and police the world, without a majority of the civilized worlds consent and approval. It helps avoid those murky situations where we say we are going ino a country for one semi-noble thing, but actually...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
No. No one's saying we don't. We already have a small force in-country protecting Erbil, working with the Kurdish peshmerga, and coordinating the airstrikes. All of that is pursuant to the 2002 AUMF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Everything else that's been going on within Iraq with ISIS has been primarily a power struggle between factions of the Iraqi government. How does entering this conflict stand to benefit the United States and its people? What compelling interest do we have to re-enter this internal dispute between factions within Iraq?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I'm just going to save that one for when they inevitably target American/western civilians more than one at a time and let that speak for itself. It shouldn't take too long unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
Um.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Then should we not have just let sad dam stay in power and keep it under control?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I think we went through this conversation twelve years ago. I opposed war in Iraq in response to 9/11 then, and I'll oppose any similiarly ill-conceived military campaigns in response to future horrific terrorist attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
It really is just a recipe to get duped.
In a way, I agree. Clinton should have killed Bin Laden, and ISIS should never have reached any point where they have that capability.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
I wonder if killing huge swaths of a country's population is going to somehow create terrorists down the line. Hmm.
Not in any civilized part of the world. You don't see too many French terrorists.
edit: Damn it. I think I just paid France a pseudo compliment.
So you're saying liberalism prevents terrorism? Let me get my pen, I need to write this down.
You realize that this type of violence and instability has existed in the Middle East for hundreds of years? And that tracing this back to the failure of the Blue Team or the Red Team is completely pointless and stupid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Read about Napoleon's military campaign in Egypt, just prior to his return to France. Read about the endless campaigns by the western powers to deter the Barbary pirates. Read about counterinsurgency theory and its countless failures. Yet despite the numerous failures of Western governments over hundreds of years to slow, stop, convert, conquer, or remake hostile Middle Eastern governments, they keep trying.
ShhhhQuote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
It has nothing to do with the "team." It was all timing. If Bin Laden had become a threat during the first Bush's term, then it would have been his name there.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
Agreed, which is why I whole heartedly support racial profiling.Quote:
Read about Napoleon's military campaign in Egypt, just prior to his return to France. Read about the endless campaigns by the western powers to deter the Barbary pirates. Read about counterinsurgency theory and its countless failures. Yet despite the numerous failures of Western governments over hundreds of years to slow, stop, convert, conquer, or remake hostile Middle Eastern governments, they keep trying.
I never know if you're trolling or just a raging bastard.
Oh, the irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
lolQuote:
Agreed, which is why I whole heartedly support racial profiling.
Remind me again how Bin Laden was trained enough to become a threat? How did that work again?
Tom Clancy games
Yoshi, always there to make me seem fair and balanced.
He does bring a balance to the mainly-liberal viewpoints on TNL.
TNL has two groups, liberal, and borderline revolutionary (for the record I mostly put myself in the second category)
I can't think of a single time when post-WW2 American intervention in the Middle East has made the situation better. The idea that Obama would have made this situation better by meddling more, it just makes no sense.
We really can't do anything right there, and this idea that we should be micromanaging the geopolitical situation there is based on an assumption of competence, knowledge, and foresight that just has no basis in reality.
If we intervened in the Syrian Civil War and deposed Al-Assad as people like Yoshi wanted, ISIS or a group just like them would be running the show there right now. It's not like some Westernized, studious diplomats would have rose up instead.
Installing the Shah, though for entirely selfish reasons, was at least (very) temporarily (kind of) good for Iran and was, uh, almost post-war? That's about the closest thing I can think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I don't think that turned out very well.
Not in the long run. But, you know. It was cool for couple years.
I wish we'd just mind our fucking business.
Especially since I have a nephew entering the Marines after he graduates High School this year. I'm wondering what stupid and pointless "peacekeeping" conflict we'll throw him into to serve someone else's agenda.
That's his own business if he want's to sign up for the marines, IMO.
Tell the Senate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
And welcome to a small minority:
Attachment 75048
A poll taking literally in the days following the Sotloff beheading.
On this topic I'm happy to be in the minority.
Oh yea that. Sotloff was sold to ISIS by "moderate rebels." The same moderate rebels we would end up supporting in this civil war.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave is ok
This will be a disaster.
You and me both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I doubt anyone outside of Washington wants us to aid a side in a civil war. To me, you're either in it or out of it. This puppet master bullshit has zero chance of working.
http://youtu.be/mI4XLhY10VAQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
If the politicians were qualified to do a real job, they'd likely have one.
You're dangerously close to Yoshi Bootstrap Territory here.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
he's just being smarmy
If the dude wants to sign his ass over, he knows what he's getting in to. Risk of death/psychosis/disability for free college and a nice severance pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Don't want to get shot at someplace stupid, don't join the damn Marines IMO.
Why doesn't that single mom get a real job and not be a waitress if she has a problem making money?