Official PlayStation Vita Thread

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Keep in mind that my statement was "At this point, the 3DS and the Vita are in parity in terms of quality releases."

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I believe that, but...

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There is no objective argument against that whatsoever.

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...you really can't make one though. Invoking Metacritic doesn't help. There isn't some science behind how games are reviewed, or critical canon by which all reviewers ascribe. Just because something like SF4 on 3DS gets a high metacritic average doesn't make it scientifically good, or even specifically good. Shoot, anyone who plays fighting games somewhat normally would tell you that the dpad is a sin and pulls SF4 way back in terms of quality.

However reviews dig on it, possibly because they distill games based on bullet-point features lists, the shiny appeal of something novel (omg 3D SF in the palm of my hand!), or the newness of a thing. Consider the number of games that get high reviews out the gate, but are largely left for the bargain bins in months, as reviewers and gamers alike get all amped up over the next big thing that will score well (and summarily be forgotten). So it's not as if SF4's metacritic average points to a tangible quality. It's just a snapshot of its reception by a group of people who all have varying tastes and ways in which they judge merit.

The only way to really look at something as "quality" in a dispassionate, clinical way then would be sales. You may argue a good game may not sell well and still be good, but then we get into preference. You may site metacritic as some scientific formula for determining quality, but it doesn't and especially isn't in the longview of the life of any given game. Critics are people, full of faults, bias, and preference like anyone else. So the only measuring stick left would be sales, since that means a number of people, at some point in time, finding a thing of enough value (quality) to be willing to part ways with money for it.

Or, you could do like I do and not find a pressing need to justify your personal preferences as some scientific "right." Are there good Vita games? I'm sure there are. As many as the 3DS? To the right folks, definitely! Does any of that mean shit-all to me? Nope.

Eh, I would trust a MC aggregate over sales any day of the week when making a purchase. More accurately, I trust a select group of 'reviews' than either of those.

So then you base your purchasing decisions on what a select niche of insulated writers think and feel about games, with no standardized, agreed-upon method of judgement. Which is all fine and good too, but it doesn't make you more or less right than anyone else. That's all I was trying to get across to Yoshi.

Conversely, criticism in film, art, food, and music at least tries to ascribe to some underlying foundation of what makes those things good. A good review of any of these things would factor in formal elements (arrangement in music, composition in art, flavor balance/contrast in food, etc.) that critics would see as core principles to that discipline.

In games, we judge based on...? Visuals - which change and get outdated easily. Music - which can be impactful, but that's not a specific boon to the form of games. Gameplay - which gets so hotly contested over what's good or bad, and the basis almost always comes back to preference. Story - which I find has absolutely no importance in the actual form of games, or is important to them, but can add to one if done right most of them do it wrong though and still get praised

So I guess what I'm getting at is, given how games criticism takes itself, I see no more right in it telling someone to buy Walking Dead than if someone buys Call of Duty because he does so every year without fail.

No one is right about anything. But yeah, I trust some of the better reviews over a group of people that think Nintendo invented everything good about gaming.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's good to see the Nintendo defense force assemble so quickly.

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You pull the stupid ass fanboy card all the damn time. We're all adults here grow the fuck up. It's no fucking defense force of anything. You posted a rumor from a site known to have 0 credibility and people informed you of that.

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Originally Posted by Hero

Conversely, criticism in film, art, food, and music at least tries to ascribe to some underlying foundation of what makes those things good. A good review of any of these things would factor in formal elements (arrangement in music, composition in art, flavor balance/contrast in food, etc.) that critics would see as core principles to that discipline.

In games, we judge based on...? Visuals - which change and get outdated easily. Music - which can be impactful, but that's not a specific boon to the form of games. Gameplay - which gets so hotly contested over what's good or bad, and the basis almost always comes back to preference. Story - which I find has absolutely no importance in the actual form of games, or is important to them, but can add to one if done right

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I have no idea what you are saying here. Why are these bad criteria for judging games? I have (and everyone else here has as well) complained about reviews. But I also know that if I am on the fence, I will read reviews from people who tend to view games with an open mind. I don't read Jonny's CoD Shack.

My name is Hero, and i have opinions!

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

No one did, so you're safe.

This isn't about the series. It's about one specific entry in each series that has plenty of reviews available to get a representative quality comparison. And a 78 for NSMB2 is pretty absymal when you consider that most big site reviewers won't give a Nintendo game less than an 8, similar to the inexplicable Final Fantasy and Madden treatment.

And frankly, I wouldn't have brought up either if Andrew hadn't, because neither NSMB or LBP does much for me personally as a sub-series and series, respectively.

I probably should have started with this, but I'll finish with it instead. Here are the lists I am talking about:

3DS

• Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (94)
• Super Mario 3D Land (90)
• Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward (88)
• Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition (85)
• Mario Kart 7 (85)
• Kid Icarus: Uprising (83)
• Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask (82)
• Cave Story 3D (82)
• Resident Evil: Revelations (82)
• Skylanders: Spyro's Adventure (82)
• Star Fox 64 3D (81)
• Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked (80)

That's 12.

Vita

• Persona 4 Golden (94)
• Rayman Origins (88)
• LittleBigPlanet PS Vita (88)
• Mortal Kombat (85)
• Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward (84)
• Gravity Rush (83)
• BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend (83)
• Metal Gear Solid HD Collection (81)
• Uncharted: Golden Abyss (80)
• Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (80)

That's 10. And the 3DS has been out almost a year longer. Keep in mind that my statement was "At this point, the 3DS and the Vita are in parity in terms of quality releases." There is no objective argument against that whatsoever. Some people on TNL probably like every game listed above. It's not like Barbie or Dora or something is padding one of the lists.

Now, there are lots of ways to shoot holes in both lineups. Of the 21 unique games (Zero Escape being on both), six are remakes, and an additional five are multiplatform releases. So we're talking 10 original games total, and that's counting BlazBlue as original, since I think it's a unique version/sequel.

For the record, if you go down to 75 instead of 80, which is still considered green on Metacritic, you get 12 more 3DS games, and 10 more Vita games, so the ratios hold. I'm not typing out 22 more. So if you consider 80 "quality," then the 3DS has had 0.52 quality games per month, while the Vita has had 1.00. If you use 75 instead, it doubles to 1.04 and 2.00, respectively.

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Yoshi, my initial complaint was that the Vita had only a few games that interested me. You're trying to look at this objectively, but not everything is a numbers game. The next Call of Warfare could get 100% ratings from every reviewer on the planet, and it would mean nothing to me. But since you took the time to put all that together, a couple observations:

Your 3DS list doesn't have any eShop games like Pushmo, Crashmo, VVVVVV, etc. Not counting VC, just the new shit. It's also missing Sticker Star, Adventure Time, Theatrhythm, and more. These are games that might not meet your Metacritic threshold but appeal to me. And your Vita list assumes I like fighters (not so much) and racers (only if it's Mario Kart or OutRun), or that I want to buy MGS a few more times (I don't).

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

There were good games to be sure, but if you have "Western" tastes, it was about the worst system this side of the Jaguar. And the best "Japanese-only" genre, the shmup, has almost zero representation.

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It's a portable. Where is Bioshock Vita? The PSP had great Western support early on then they realized the money wasn't there. Vita's seems lucky to last this long with Oddworld, Mortal Kombat, and a decent Need for Speed.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Yoshi, my initial complaint was that the Vita had only a few games that interested me. You're trying to look at this objectively, but not everything is a numbers game. The next Call of Warfare could get 100% ratings from every reviewer on the planet, and it would mean nothing to me. But since you took the time to put all that together, a couple observations:

Your 3DS list doesn't have any eShop games like Pushmo, Crashmo, VVVVVV, etc. Not counting VC, just the new shit. It's also missing Sticker Star, Adventure Time, Theatrhythm, and more. These are games that might not meet your Metacritic threshold but appeal to me. And your Vita list assumes I like fighters (not so much) and racers (only if it's Mario Kart or OutRun), or that I want to buy MGS a few more times (I don't).

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I did intentionally exclude downloadable stuff, because it's hard to decide where to stop. The Vita has PSone games, minis, PSP games, PlayStation Mobile games, and its own digital games. The 3DS has less but still multiple types as well.

The entirety of my point with regard to you specifically was that there had to be something you were overlooking, and it appears the P4 supporters were successful in convincing you of that as well in a more specific fashion. The same argument, by the way, would apply equally to someone saying there wasn't anything to play on the 3DS.