Printable View
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59130
Looks like Mirror's Edge 2 is early in development with a small team right now. On the one hand I'm glad, on the other hand I'm petrified to think about how they will retool this game to better appeal to the masses. It was a misunderstood game and the public and critical community were wrong. It's not your fault, Faith.
I would like to play Mirror's Edge 2.
It's true. Should have been a hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Thing is, aside from a few aesthetic choices (1st person cutscenes pls, drop the animation. Oh and make characters I don't hate) and improved combat, I'm not sure what I'd want in a sequel. A more wide-open level design might work but could make the whole thing less urgent. Corridor stuff gets a bad rap these days.
Instead of improving the hand-to-hand combat, they should remove it. I think its presence just confused people into thinking they were supposed to use it
I wouldn't mind if it was removed entirely either.
One thing I think turned people off was that stupid achievement for not firing a single gun. The game is unneccessarily frustrating if you go for that.
Anyway, I spent most of my time in the time trials mode. I've always seen this as more of a racing game than anything else.
I completely disagree. I found that achievement to be enjoyable and fairly easy. It's good training for perfecting disarms.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
It has sold better than the majority of games out there. Not saying they won't make changes, though
Well, most of the complaints were on GAF so I guess that's not saying much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Anyway, I played the PC version which had no achievements. Disarmed most everyone that got in the way but I definitely dropped a few dozen by the time I was done. The thing is, the AI will often arrange themslves in positions that make is impossible to disarm a guard without being shot in the back. At that point, you can either reload and hope the AI decides to walk in another direction or you can grab a shotgun and mow the fuckers down.
I think people think "without firing" meant "punch everyone in the face" which would get old fast. Disarming is really quick and effective and there's no reason that playing that way can't be fun. The office with the computer mainframes was the one part that was really tough to do without firing, and I had fun figuring that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
I just think this is one of those games that people didn't know how to play.
The AI is very predictable. The key is to learn to manipulate it by being aggressive and then it's a non issue. If you bum rush guards head on, they will always swing when you get inside their circle and then you can disarm them 100% of the time if you're timing's good. This also works out because it goes hand-in-hand with speed play, since it's absolutely the fastest way to deal with enemies in 90% of situations (shooting for the rest).Quote:
Anyway, I played the PC version which had no achievements. Disarmed most everyone that got in the way but I definitely dropped a few dozen by the time I was done. The thing is, the AI will often arrange themslves in positions that make is impossible to disarm a guard without being shot in the back. At that point, you can either reload and hope the AI decides to walk in another direction or you can grab a shotgun and mow the fuckers down.
I love the first game but I'm worried that all the internet assholes complaining about its short length is going to result in a sequel extended with filler.
I don't really see what kind of filler would actually work with the gameplay aside from longer ledges to shimmy across. They may play up gunplay and combat a little but I doubt they'll do it to the point where they're throwing wave after wave of enemies to clear before allowing you to move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Also, the first order of business for them is to do something about those intensely awful rotoscoped flash animation cutscenes.
Am I the only one that just skipped those instead of complaining about them?
And yeah, if they tried to pad this with exploration elements or other filler it would kill it.
If they improve the controls and make the gameplay a little less linear/corridory I'll be happy.
The controls were very solid, but not perfect, there were too many times doing time trials when I would think I hit the button at the perfect time only to run right into the object and completely fuck up my time. And giving the player a larger sandbox to play in as opposed to a linear path with a handful of methods to maneuver them is key.
Nope, I skipped them too without much care. But it would have been nice to have something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frog
Well... to some extent I'm not sure how this game could work without being linear. At best it could be a bit multi-linear (and really it kind of was but in subtler ways), but you can't make a racing game really open ended at all. The fun in the game came from figuring out the best way to use this particular space that you had to work with and exploring the different ways it can be exploited. There really were a million routes in the game as is, if you opened up too much it would just lose its scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
I mean, the entire premise of the game is running from one point to another as fast as humanly possible. Is open-ended exploration really compatible with that?
Well again, the controls aren't broken as much as they are demanding. As a game about subtle execution and perfecting your run, if you dumb down the timing to where it's like Flashback or something, you'll wreck the entire game.Quote:
The controls were very solid, but not perfect, there were too many times doing time trials when I would think I hit the button at the perfect time only to run right into the object and completely fuck up my time.
Is it demanding? Damn right. A little frustrating before you get the timing down? Sure. But it's still your fault for fucking up, not the controls. It's a subtle game.
Aaaaand this is why I'm really worried that they're going to muck up the sequel. Some people just don't know what Mirror's Edge was supposed to be and don't appreciate what it did right. If you want a sandbox game with baby controls that do all the work for you, check out Assassin's Creed.Quote:
And giving the player a larger sandbox to play in as opposed to a linear path with a handful of methods to maneuver them is key.
You sound like my extremely pretentious film professor from college "if you don't like something about this movie, you just don't understand it". Bullshit. I played the game, I really enjoyed the game, but for as much as I appreciate the things the game did right, there were also a few glaring issues that I thought could be improved upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
The control issues weren't because of "timing", or "subtlety", or being too "demanding", it almost always came down to collision detection issues. There are issues in the game with it, whether you want to admit it or not. It's fun despite these issues, but I hope some of those issues are ironed out.
And you completely misconstrued what I said. I didn't say make this a "sandbox" game, I said give the players a larger sandbox to play in. Much like the downloadable time trials looked to do on PS3. The worst parts of the game by far were the confined indoors areas with only a small handful of ways to maneuver through the environments. While the brilliant parts were the larger areas that while kept on the player on an A to B path, gave them far greater choice and flexibility to how they wanted to approach the area.
You're absolutely right that opening up the game much more would lose it's scope. But the entire game was about flow, and how your character flowed through the environment that she was in, and there were a number of areas that just lacked the ability to "flow" through them like many of the more interesting and open environments in the game allowed you to do.
I'm not saying there's something wrong with your taste in games or you're stupid or anything like that. What I'm saying is that the the things you're suggesting would destroy what I found very special about this game and if EA follows your advice, I'll be sad. The things you didn't like were conscious design decisions that YOU didn't like and I did. That doesn't make me any more pretentious than you, we're both just talking about what we like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Moreover, I think that it sounds like you really want to make the game more like every other game out there which I think is probably what they'll do and it's a shame, because it's not like I get to enjoy a hardcore speed-platformer very often, especially now that the Sonic series is ruined.
It might be smart to dumb the game down for a wider audience but from a selfish perspective it's not what I want to see them do. Sorry.You are 100% fucking wrong on this, you just need more practice dude. If you see the shit that good ME players pull off, they wouldn't be able to do that if the collision were shit. On the contrary it's an extremely precise game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Whether or not you LIKE this emphasis is a matter of taste, but the factuality of what you're saying is wrong. The collision detection is beyond excellent in the game.The downloadable Time Trials were smaller and more limited in scope, most of them were less than a minute long. And they were fan-fucking-tastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Yeah, I've found the game to be pretty consistent. I think many people underestimate how important momentum and running speed is. Reminds me of a racing line in a driving game, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
That's a very good analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
So wait, explain to me how I am saying to make this game "like every other game out there"? Or where I say that the collision detection is "shit"? Or where I say for them to "dumb down" the game? I'd actually love to hear you explain to me what my "shit ideas" are, because your interpretation of everything I have said just seems fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
First of all, I didn't say your ideas were shit, I said I hate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Second, you're saying your failures "almost always" come down to collision detection issues. Which, oddly enough, neither I nor anyone that has put a lot of time into the game, seem to experience. And I'm pretty sure if I watched your replays on Live I could see exactly why you fucked up, and if you practiced you'd be able to overcome those challenges. But instead you're blaming the game and you're just wrong.
So yeah, if they went to a system where your inertia, angle of approach, exact speed, and timing weren't as important (i.e no more "collision issues") this game wouldn't be as much fun for me. I like the subtle things you have to get right. They aren't control "problems" for me.
Also I think opening the game up much more than it is would be a mistake. Even the seemingly narrow parts of the game have a lot of subtlety to them that not everyone seems to get. I think if it was all large outdoor areas it would get really monotonous.
Here's an alalogy: I hate the TOCA series. I think it's too demanding, control-wise, I don't like flipping over or going into a spinout every turn, and I don't really get all the subtleties of it. I don't like the game, my issues with it are very similar to your problems with mirror's edge.
But I don't call these decisions "bugs" and while I would like the game more if it weren't like that I also realize that doing that would alienate the existing audience.
When you're not arguing like my pretentious film professor you seem to make much better points.
Also, why did you edit your post to not say "Your ideas fucking suck"? :(
Because what I meant by that was that your ideas would ruin my fun and I thought I could say that better.
I love Mirror's Edge.
Didn't really have any collision detection issues, she pretty much did what she needed to do and it was rad.
Hated the first one.
Hope the office explodes during the making of this one.
The fastest way to deal with enemies is to just run right by them. If I remember correctly, you can actually get through the entire game without even disarming anyone. Sometimes the solutions look wacky as anything (I know Faith is effectively an urban ninja, but vaulting off of balance beams? Really?)
Honestly, even the melee combat wasn't terrible once you got used to it. She even has a VF-esque low jab that interrupts everything. I do agree that they should either refine it more or just ditch it entirely, as it really does not fit with the theme of the game and it does feel tacked on.
The one issue I had with the collision detection is that with difficult jumps, the various states you would end up in (clearing it, making it but having to slide in, grabbing the edge, and face-planting a building) look nearly identical in spots -- you just have to know how fast you have to hit it. This is the worst with the first two, since you have to manually tuck and it can be extremely difficult to make that judgment call.
Ladies and gentlemen, more evidence that Mirror's Edge is worth playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
Keep the platforming the way it is, and dial back the combat a bit. That's all it needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
This isn't true. There are some parts where you're waiting for an elevator or forced down a vulnerable path where you absolutely must disarm guys first or you'll be killed instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstick
That's not really a collision issue, that's just you having trouble gauging speed, but yeah, maybe an optional speedometer or something could be helpful.Quote:
The one issue I had with the collision detection is that with difficult jumps, the various states you would end up in (clearing it, making it but having to slide in, grabbing the edge, and face-planting a building) look nearly identical in spots -- you just have to know how fast you have to hit it. This is the worst with the first two, since you have to manually tuck and it can be extremely difficult to make that judgment call.
The worst was that one office building after the sniper shot, where there were those two guards waiting for you downstairs. That was kind of tough to do without shooting them from above.
The part in the mall with the 3 sets of escalators drove me insane. Gotta take out the 2 guys through the glass door, then jump into the ceiling that leads you to a part where you wall run to a pole that you vault off of to the cat walks that's above the set of escalators. When you get to that part with the wall run, guys with machine guns come out from below and have ridiculous aim, I can't tell you how many times I got killed there. Finally had to bait the guys out first, then run down the 3 or so flights to killl them so I could have a chance of making it across to the catwalks.
Care to name any specifics? The situations I thought where this would happen (like the scene with the rooftop fight about 2/3rds through Chapter 3, the rooftop fight in chapter 5, the final sequence in chapter 5, right after you leave the truck in chapter 7, the rooftop chase near the beginning of chapter 8, the final sequence in chapter 8, and pretty much every fight in chapter 9) can be done without disarming anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Is it always the fastest approach? No. Is is always sane? No. The last fight in chapter 9 in the server room is extra-gay if you're actually trying this, and isn't the fastest route to boot either -- but it can be done. Sometimes you barely scrape by health-wise (so yes, this becomes effectively impossible on Hard) and sometimes you need to take some weird routes.
There is a speedometer in the lower-right hand corner of the screen during time trials.Quote:
That's not really a collision issue, that's just you having trouble gauging speed, but yeah, maybe an optional speedometer or something could be helpful.
And if you're questioning my ability to play this game... add me as a friend on Xbox Live and check some of my replays. :p
Yeah I did it without firing a single shot on the PC, very fun game but I know people complained about the length and it's a legitimate complaint, there were so many unanswered things, and you're right at the top of a fucking building that was full of swat people and it cuts out? wtf did we all just die on top of that tower?
The ending kind of really pissed me off, I know it's setting up for a sequel and I guess it works because I want to know what happened to Miller.
Disarms can be as slow as melee on the smg guys maybe there was a second animation like the pistol had that I kept missing because it would just take soo long to disarm them and the timing on it was so wonky. I never did get a good time to use the 180 wall kick either.
Whatever really good game, but I wish they didn't turn the last level into giant firefights that was annoying.
Mirror's Edge, on consoles, needed to have some way to lock your movement to just forward. It seems to be really sensitive about how you're tilting the analogue stick, and if you're just a little off, you'll have serious trouble wallrunning and catching ledges that expect you to be pointing a very specific direction.
My advice to anyone who had control issues but enjoyed the concept is to try it on PC. The magic of WASD and a mouse means that you can be absolutely sure you're heading straight forward.
Ah, yeah, that might explain it. I did my no-fire play on Hard and in Chapter 9 there are some spots where it just can't be done without a disarm, especially when those dude with the big heavy guns show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstick
That's putting it mildly. There were a lot of times I couldn't figure out where the fuck you went. You saw routes that I didn't even think were possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstick
I got a lot better at the game when I started using the right stick mroe to look at ledges to grab. For awhile I would just run and jump relying on the game to just grab ledges I wasn't physically looking at. Like, "The game will know and grab the ledge where I want." It doesn't work all the time and made me just jump into a wall and wonder why I was sliding down it. Just moving my view more made a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
If the game sold well enough to warrant a sequel, I see no reason why ubisoft would change the gameplay.
Maybe they'll just set the game in a more visually interesting cityscape and drop the shitty character designs.
Me either...Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
You just broke my mind. The city is *beautiful*. Easily one of the highlights of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
BTW, DICE developed, EA published.
It sold enough to make money but 1/3 of what it was supposed to/expected to.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
Because people were "wahhh wahhh 7 hours" without bothering to even play the game.
I loved mirrors edge (i dont think ill ever be able to get the platinum though), but I'm afraid of what changes they feel they need to make to reach mainstream.
$10 says they add a 3rd person camera, then it just becomes PoP.
Although, the prospect of an open world mirrors edge game sounds pretty cool.
7 hours is about all I want from most games. After that I just put it down and never touch it.
Fuck. That's right. I don't know where I got ubi from.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
And yet Mirror's Edge was one worth playing through over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
qtf, i easily put 30 hours into the game, and i only had chapter 1 and 2 speedruns done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
This is for all the people that hate this game, Virtual On, Bionic Commando,
......Hell just about anything I like. Coming to the wii in 2011 when they lower the rez and add waggle controls.
:oh snap:
Bigger city, more content, more races... maybe hide the races in a side mission context. If only the story allowed for something like couriers making deliveries that was completely unused in the first game OH WAIT
Did Mirror's Edge have different weather or times of day at all? I only played the demo and the first hour or so of the full game, and everything looked the same.
It had some night parts, but no weather.
Well, I think weather could add a lot to it. I mean, it already had wind, right?
Ice and rain would make it even more challenging.
I don't like the idea of slippery floors, but some weather would certainly be nice visually.
*squeals like a girl with giddy glee*
OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD
OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD
OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss
TAKE ALL MY MONEY.
I hope they bring back the abstract time trial courses.
Guys, it's WAAAAAAAY to early to get excited. How long has it been since we saw the Beyond Good and Evil 2 trailer? DICE is doing Battlefront and Battlefield and I doubt EA is letting them have more than 3 people at any given time work on Mirrors Edge.
Fuck you stop talking.
I just watched like, 4 years o old press conferences yesterday and saw trailers for about 30 games that never came out. I'm just keeping it real.
Everyone's excited now, but next to no one will buy it (just like before) and it'll slide back to dev limbo.
Also, PC or no sale.
This is probably the best possible announcement that realistically can happen at this E3.
Show's over, everyone go home.
Does Origin count as PC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
No the best announcement would be that a new Tekken game is coming out TOMORROW. FOR FREE.
And that already happened.
But seriously, I think Mirrors Edge looks rad, and if it was coming out by holiday 2014 I'd be excited. But we can't realistically expect it anytime before 2015. And they're not going to show us SHIT for 2 years.
Okay, cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korly
Wrong. Star Wars is going to pay for Mirror's Edge 2.
I predict that both Battlefield 5 and Battlefront 2 will release before Mirrors Edge 2.
Sure.
I predict Madden 2012 will come out before Madden 2013
Do the Japanese Gamers imagine they have larger eyes than they actually do?
In this case they've been fucking around with ME2 for years and never announced it, so I feel like now that they are finally going public, they aren't jumping the gun.
Fuck Japan, they're not relevant.
Apparently it's a reboot.
It looked like more of a prequel to me.
She was getting the tattoos, so it's either a rebuild, or prequel.
Well maybe the old ones washed off.
False metal.
I don't care if this isn't out till 2016, just the fact it's being made and looks faithful (ha!) to the original makes me very happy. First next-gen announcement/preview that has made me feel that way.
EA's press release reveals the game "reboots the franchise for the next generation with advanced visuals and an all-new origins story for Faith." The game is "coming when it's ready" to the PS4, Xbox One, and PC.Quote:
Originally Posted by PKBMax
It's such a weird thing to reboot the game and still give it a sequel number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korly
BTW I've been trying to find the first Mirror's Edge new for $20 on Xbox and it just isn't happening so far, the digital version on Xbox Live is $15 so I may resort to that provided I can't find it at all for cheap but it's strange to see given that this was like really cheap a couple years ago.
.
What the fuck, Jerry.
Look away for a couple hours and things go weird. What was that Jerry thing all about?
James
Just some inane comments with linkspam.
I like how it was tolerated in The Last of Us thread but the second he violated Mirror's Edge, Bam! Dropkicked off the board.
James
Priorities.
Don't fuck with Faith. Meanwhile, I was really hoping for a sequel (or prequel, or whatever) this gen, so I'm glad to see this is a reality. Can't imagine it will be ready before late 2014 at the earliest, though. Open world Mirror's Edge sounds almost too good to be true. And despite the only modest success of the first, I expect the prequel to generate a lot of hype.
They weren't referral links or from a single publisher or platform. What a strange guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Bullshit until it has an 'add to cart' button next to it.
Official website up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara Jansson
can I add it to the cart though?
Yellerdog says no
Still no.
I hope they lose the gun shooting completely and give me bold new ways to jump off two walls and kick people in the heads.
So nervous about them trying to "fix" what made this game brilliant.
E3 impressions have gone a long way toward moving me from guarded optimism to actual excitement.
The announcement that Faith can no longer use guns has sharply divided people, but it speaks volumes to the fact that the devs get it. I never minded the existence of guns in ME, but I also didn't use them much. But I think they confused people into thinking the game is a bad FPS and missing the brilliant platformer underneath. Removing guns clarifies the game's focus.
I'm also relieved to hear that the open world stuff is still very much focused on speed and traversal. It seems challenging to design the game this way but if they pull it off it could be brilliant.
GOOD. The gunplay was the weakest part. I hope disarming is still a part of it, though.
It is. You'll get shot at a lot, so disarming is a big part of defense.
Looking oh-so-fine. I miss my red object signposting though.
I imagine they turn those off for the trailer, IIRC you could toggle them in the original.
Ahh! Excited! Glad it's actually happening.
Holy shit this looks good.
This needs VR support so badly.
Looks so good. Maybe my most anticipated title, and February isn't all that far off.