Anyone Here Believe in Noah's Ark?

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Originally Posted by Timber

Most people who claim to be atheist are actually agnostic.

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Eh, I don't know if I'd subscribe to this. I mean yes, most reasonable people would say they can't know 100% but agnostic to me implies that one is ambivalent or undecided, and that's not the case with a lot of people even if they aren't 100%

It's true I don't know for sure that there's no god. It's also true that I don't know for sure that everyone else actually has consciousness, and many other facts of reality that we take for granted, but I still believe that I can reason inductively about these things with some confidence, and there's not a great deal of doubt in my mind about these matters.

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Originally Posted by Timber

True atheists really do have just as much faith as some hardcore religious nut. They believe without a shadow of a doubt that there is no higher power.

What you think of atheism is probably agnosticism.

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I dunno. Theism refers to knowledge and Gnosticism refers to what you know.

1. Agnostic atheist

does not believe any god exists, but doesn't claim to know that no god exists

2. Gnostic atheist

believes that no god exists and claims to know that this belief is true

3. Agnostic theist

believes a god exists, but doesn't claim to know that this belief is true

4. Gnostic theist

believes a god exists and claims to know that this belief is true

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

It's true I don't know for sure that there's no god. It's also true that I don't know for sure that everyone else actually has consciousness, and many other facts of reality that we take for granted, but I still believe that I can reason inductively about these things with some confidence, and there's not a great deal of doubt in my mind about these matters.

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Yeah, arguing absolute knowledge is silly. There's no such thing. However, looking at the natural world and coming to terms with the fact that it doesn't match up with the stories of various religions doesn't require absolute knowledge or a leap of faith.

I'll put it this way. There could be a god. But if there is there's not a religion on the planet that is the direct result of said god because there's too many holes in the belief systems. Perhaps the deists had it right and there was only a 'prime mover'.

Realistically, when we say we "know" something, we're usually only 99.9% sure.

I don't believe in deities or an afterlife. By definition, that makes me an atheist.
An agnostic is someone who believes that there is no way to know for sure whether or not there are deities or an afterlife.
The distinction is somewhat blurry.
I accept that my mind and my perception are not infallible, but I don't think that's enough to be truly agnostic.

Agnostic to me means that you believe that just about anything is possible and it's kinda nutty to worry so much about what happens after your psychical body is dead.

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Originally Posted by Timber

Agnostic to me means that you believe that just about anything is possible and it's kinda nutty to worry so much about what happens after your psychical body is dead.

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That's cute that you made up your own definition for a word but it's just about thinking that there is absolute knowledge versus there isn't.

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Originally Posted by Giga Power

I'll put it this way. There could be a god. But if there is there's not a religion on the planet that is the direct result of said god because there's too many holes in the belief systems. Perhaps the deists had it right and there was only a 'prime mover'.

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Well the interesting thing here is that people will call just about anything God. Like if you talk to a lot of people, especially theists or deists outside of an organized religion, God has become a vague, almost meaningless concept. It seems as if the desire to name something God is stronger than the actual belief in a specific concept of God.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Well the interesting thing here is that people will call just about anything God. Like if you talk to a lot of people, especially theists or deists outside of an organized religion, God has become a vague, almost meaningless concept. It seems as if the desire to name something God is stronger than the actual belief in a specific concept of God.

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That drives me crazy. Messing around with words like that. 'God is love!' No, actually we already have a word for what you're trying to describe and it's 'love'. Throwing the God label on it only screws up communication and actually becomes completely meaningless.

Love is possible without God. And calling a feeling or sensation 'God' takes all of the 'God' out of it. It's silly.

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Originally Posted by Giga Power

That's cute that you made up your own definition for a word but it's just about thinking that there is absolute knowledge versus there isn't.

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Merriam-Webster Definition of Agnostic

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1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>

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I'd say that's pretty damn close to what I said.