Fort Hood Shooting

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Originally Posted by wEEman33

Flipping the tables and saying "X must be true because you can't disprove X" is a logical fallacy.

Burden of proof always falls on the accuser, or in this case, the asserter.

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Weeman is finally right about something! Call the cops!

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

This is making my head hurt. Do you guys know what the scientific method even is? Do you even know what the question is? You're stuck in religious beliefs that put the spotlight on God. You are stuck on "prove there is a God" vs "prove there is no God". Who cares? Science cares about how we got here. MAYBE WE GOT HERE DUE TO INFLUENCE FROM OUTSIDE OUR UNIVERSE. But if we throw up a blanket "no God" policy, then we cut off umptee-ump routes of exploration in our research for the very un-scientific reason of "my religion says No God so it must be so".

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Shut up jackass.

Leaving the space grandpa option open is just wishy-washy hand-holding for irrational people. Could there be a God? Sure, no one is arguing for finite possibility. You fucking jerk. Yeah anything could happen. I'm just not going to cripple any conversation with concessions to far flung fancies. I've lost patience with being diplomatic and trying to reconcile a faith-based concept and reason. I'll eat crow when crow is put on my god damned plate. Do I even know what the scientific method even is.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Its sad that 13 men died in this terrorist shooting.

Facts:

FBI, CIA and Army personel knew of his internet activities: emails to Imam of Al Queda and various message board posts.

He was sent to FT Hood for help and like Col. Jesep from A Few Good Men. He was A Substandard Army soldier.

He was Muslim.

Major concern is that how the FUCK was he still allowed to be a Psychiatrist? Other concern? WHERE THE FUCK WAS HOMELAND SECURITY? Serious?

Who care about religion? Sure he screamed as he was shooting Allah Akbar and yes its a terror attack. But this is not a reason to ban Muslims in the military. This rarely happens, but the lack of communication between departments of gov't is MORE FUCKING DISTURBING.

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I think both issues are equally important.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

I'm not stereotyping. Living without logic is a founding principle of Christianity. Over and over again the NT demonstrates how one should not live by one's own judgment but act with faith on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

A christian is taught to not prove or disprove anything. In fact, it is highly encouraged to act when something has not been proven or can not be proven. Believing when one has no reason to believe is consistently idolized and romanticized.

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This is true. I was 7th Day Adventist for almost 20 years. This is exactly true. Some of the people I respect most are still in the shit. Martin Luther said "The biggest enemy of religion is logic". Even back then they knew it was true.

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

This is making my head hurt. Do you guys know what the scientific method even is? Do you even know what the question is? You're stuck in religious beliefs that put the spotlight on God. You are stuck on "prove there is a God" vs "prove there is no God". Who cares? Science cares about how we got here. MAYBE WE GOT HERE DUE TO INFLUENCE FROM OUTSIDE OUR UNIVERSE. But if we throw up a blanket "no God" policy, then we cut off umptee-ump routes of exploration in our research for the very un-scientific reason of "my religion says No God so it must be so".

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My man, no one is talking about the scientific method. Which doesn't apply btw since you can't test god. We're talking about in a discussion the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. In this case the person claiming there is a god.

Listen, I'm no scientist and I'll readily admit that. My knowledge of evolutionary science and abiogenisis all stem from the videos i've seen and books I've read, and even then only when they deal with me with kid gloves on. I'm not trying to argue the scientific part of this. Now if you want to tell me which god it s that you refer to I would gladly take my turn and tear you apart, but you haven't even though this is my second time asking you.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

When you stereotype all people of faith as illogical extremists you display just as much ignorance as you attribute to them.

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Does he really? I beg to differ nigga, anybody who's ever been in a religion knows that the underlying rule of any religion is to not ask questions and take shit on faith. If you don't believe me ask your pastor next time if we should still follow the laws of Moses, nobody does even though Jesus specifically says too.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

others use scientific superstition (unsustainable assumptions based on the little we know of existence through science).

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Scientific superstition like the Theory of Evolution, The Germ Theory, Newtons Laws. You're absolutely right. Good job.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

It's juvenile to begrudge others their beliefs (as long as those beliefs don't harm others).

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First of all Christianity and Islam have and continue to harm people. Second this TNL, we make fun of people for the pettiest shit. You should know that by now. Stop crying.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

The definition of God isn't liquid from a philosophical/scientific point of view; it's an architect of the universe. Everything else is just trappings.

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It's not just trappings. Someone who keeps their definition of god so vague just seems like a coward to me. Someone who knows their beliefs don't stand a chance so they keep it vague so they don't have to think.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

Shut up jackass.

Leaving the space grandpa option open is just wishy-washy hand-holding for irrational people. Could there be a God? Sure, no one is arguing for finite possibility. You fucking jerk. Yeah anything could happen. I'm just not going to cripple any conversation with concessions to far flung fancies. I've lost patience with being diplomatic and trying to reconcile a faith-based concept and reason. I'll eat crow when crow is put on my god damned plate. Do I even know what the scientific method even is.

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<3

this is all you need.

No, Finch, you're wrong. This is all you need:

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

The definition of God isn't liquid from a philosophical/scientific point of view; it's an architect of the universe. Everything else is just trappings.

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Even the term "architecht" is loaded. If it's simply creator/prime mover then we can call, say, the laws of physics God if we felt like it. But if it implies consciousness, awareness, deliberateness then it becomes a more difficult problem.

But really this vague definition of God is a modern invention, and I hope you appreciate that. Until pretty recently "God" meant a being that could talk and think and shared many human qualities, and I think that kind of God is more easily disproven, which is why the definition actually changed.

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Originally Posted by Anal Kaboom

Someone who keeps their definition of god so vague just seems like a coward to me. Someone who knows their beliefs don't stand a chance so they keep it vague so they don't have to think.

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It has less to do with cowardice and more to do with a fear of social detachment. It is what happens when smart people live around overly religious people. They do not want to abandon the culture that produced them and live in, so they try to strike a balance between what they are told and what they know.

People that know better than the faithful are not naturally smarter or better. They just lack the social pressure, or were already rejected by those around them, so they don't really have a choice on whether to be socially awkward or not.


On a side note, if you want to destroy religion, do not do it with logic and reason but with industry and prosperity. Show me a city of progress and I will show you people that believe in the minds of men. Show me poverty and sadness, and I will show you the most faithful.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

But really this vague definition of God is a modern invention, and I hope you appreciate that. Until pretty recently "God" meant a being that could talk and think and shared many human qualities, and I think that kind of God is more easily disproven, which is why the definition actually changed.

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This is what I've been trying to say. Thanks frog. :tu:

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

It has less to do with cowardice and more to do with a fear

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lol wut? :lol:

I get what you're talking about and I went through the same thing. I had been on the fence unable to let go of the religious ties of all my family and friends. What sealed the deal for me was when I read the bible with an open mind. I then realized that I can't do this anymore and at the end of the day my parents still love me, and I've kept all my friends. It sounds super cliche but it really was like a weight being lifted off of my shoulders.

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Originally Posted by Buttcheeks

People that know better than the faithful are not naturally smarter or better. They just lack the social pressure, or were already rejected by those around them, so they don't really have a choice on whether to be socially awkward or not.

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I don't think this is completely true. I think you're underestimating how hard it is to actually have an open mind. It didn't come easy to me. But now that I do I can see how valuable it really is and how ignorant (when it comes to faith) religious people really are.

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Originally Posted by Buttcheeks

On a side note, if you want to destroy religion, do not do it with logic and reason but with industry and prosperity. Show me a city of progress and I will show you people that people in the minds of men. Show me poverty and sadness, and I will show you the most faithful.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. Though it is always fun to try and fight with logic and reason. There's so much anger in me for the fact that I was suckered into this shit for 20+ years. Maybe it's I subconsciously feel that if I can get good enough at it I might be able to convince my family, friends or girlfriend. Whoa. Self reflection makes my head hurt lol.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Even the term "architecht" is loaded. If it's simply creator/prime mover then we can call, say, the laws of physics God if we felt like it. But if it implies consciousness, awareness, deliberateness then it becomes a more difficult problem.

But really this vague definition of God is a modern invention, and I hope you appreciate that. Until pretty recently "God" meant a being that could talk and think and shared many human qualities, and I think that kind of God is more easily disproven, which is why the definition actually changed.

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I like the jung/campbell argument that god(s) are just the dreams of humanity. And like dreams, they represent the subconscious minds of the people. Be it their vanity, values, maturity, whatever.

How people define God, says more about them, than god. imo

Whoa that's cool where can I read more about that?