In This Thread: Lots of crying about toys.
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In This Thread: Lots of crying about toys.
And other people crying about people crying about toys.
As if nobody knew beforehand.
You can't use your Nerd Trickery to get out of this one.
What am I trying to get out of?
You know. Oh, you know.
I honestly don't get the outrage over what they said. Because there is a lot of truth in what they said in regards to the market that Nintendo is going after right now. Casual gamers (read, dumb little girls) don't like dying a lot. They don't like hard/unforgiving games. That is why until now, most girls don't play games. They tried when they were younger, the game kicked their ass and they never touched them again.
Really, look at what games are big sellers to casual gamers and/or girls. Stuff like guitar hero, wii sports, and the SIMS. You can beat most of any gutiar hero on normal easily, and I don't think you can really die on the SIMS.
Maybe what he said didn't apply to you but it applies to enough people that no one should be flipping out. And the way he described was the way to make the most money, not the way to make Yoshi happy.
There are people out there that loved Transformers 2.
You're allowed to be angry about that, and you're allowed to be angry about this.
Sure you can just say "well it's just not for me" and walk away but when there's 500 million dollars behind a movie and there's two of the biggest names in gaming saying they think easy games are the way to go, the appropriate response is "you suck, stop pandering to dumb babies".
I honestly don't get why there's so many people in this thread accusing everyone else of being so outraged.
two gooks> derp derp derp
some people> some of that stuff those two gooks said is pretty ridiculous
the rest> WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO OUTRAGED? WHY ARE YOU COMPARING ONE OF THEM TO HITLER WITHOUT A MOUSTACHE? CAN'T YOU GUYS EVER SHUT UP???
This explains so much about this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
that is an acceptable response. But few to no people were making it. It was pages of people acting like he was insane for saying it and people arguing with squall.Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstBlood
probably because Yoshi's first post reads like a fox news reportQuote:
Originally Posted by dog$
he could just as well be talking about the demo's pleading for the death of babies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNL on Demon's Souls:
Whatever, jerks!Quote:
Originally Posted by TNL on NSMB Wii:
How does sparse checkpoints = making games too easy? Isn't it the opposite? They're saying that any idiot can credit-feed their way through a shooter if they're willing to continue enough. Instead of applying that to Mario, they figured that it's better, if you lose all of your lives, to be asked to replay the stuff that you can beat before retrying the part that you couldn't. And they're right. It does make you feel like you're better at the game, and it does it without injuring the game's difficulty at all.
Being asked to replay stuff I can beat before retrying the part that I couldn't can easily make me feel infuriated and that the entire exercise is a waste of time, because I keep having to repeat doing things that I know I can do.
It certainly doesn't make me feel that I'm any better at the game.
great but there's no part of those Nintendo games that you can't sleepwalk through
I don't feel I am better at the game; I just feel that their games are easy shit
Wasn't the complaint most commonly levied against Bioshock that dying didn't set you back at all?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND, INTERNET.
yes, the most common complaint was that it was too easy
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1261421301Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Well, how does they?
Click for full size
ugh
because if the game is easy (which it is), it doesn't matter if there are 0 or 5000000 checkpoints
you don't need them
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
Checkpoints have nothing to do with anything. If I am ever caught in cross fire, I am hiding behind you and squall. Nothing gets through (to) you.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Aside from being the topic of the conversation that this thread is about? The conversation that you posted in the thread that you started? Christ, the word "checkpoints" is in the first fucking line, man. This is getting bad even for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Jesus Christ. The first line is only there to make sure that conversation made sense. The conversation is about difficulty and its effects on player "feeling", not fucking checkpoints. Maybe the fact that Nintendo worries about player "feeling," especially when excitement is apparently not the goal, is the root of the fucking problem.
But, but, Yoshi says he gets everything and that he is a very good reader...
The only things I had to respond to regarding the original post was their justification of the Continue system, which has since been dismissed by everyone here, and to disagree with their insinuation that it is wrong for players to demand to always play certain videogames at the limit of ability.
The topic of the conversation within which those points were made is irrelevant to me.
Well, then who gives a shit? So he feels that way. Whatever. It isn't like he is trying to get a law passed that makes it where all games have to follow his philosophy. If he wants to make games for those types of gamers, more power to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
All videogames have become dependent on tutorials. They don't even pretend you'll read the manual or have two brain cells to two rub together to figure out that "A is jump." At least in NSMBWii 1-1 wasn't a tutorial stage - it just assumed you'd read the manual or Figure It Out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salsashark
When bbobb, Joust, dog$, FirstBlood, and I are on one side of an issue, it's the correct side by definition. Although it is easier to say that whoever opposes buttplant26 is on the correct side by definition.
Not to mention the films of you all making out fetch Top Dollar at the flea market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You're at least two pages behind, because bbobb, I think, already addressed this idiocy when squall said it. But I'm on vacation, so I have time to piss away responding to you, so I will. Through some evil sorcery, Nintendo is in the drivers' seat of the industry. Their decisions have ramifications across the industry, not just on their games. It's bad enough that Sony and Microsoft are off making motion controller bullshit. We sure as fuck don't want more even more developers dumbing down their games because they see it working for Nintendo in terms of sales to "dumb girls," as you put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Are we not allowed to state disagreement with that philosophy until it gets to that point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Dude, but about 99% of developers buy into this. Aside from Demon Souls and obscure bullet-hell shooters, wouldn't you say that games on average hand-hold the player a whole lot more than they used to? All so that way a player can feel badass, or good at something, etc etc. when in fact the devs work real hard at making you look that way in game with as little involvement from you as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
As well they should.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
YES! And that is exactly why I am scared that even more developers will follow Nintendo's lead or those that already have will cut even deeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
If I have to wait for the next Cave or From Software game in order to have something reasonably challenging to play, I'll save a ton of money but will be bored off my ass.
I guess, but you should probably realize you're extrapolating something that may not even be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
It's an interview about NSMBW, and in the context of the subject it's essentially stating "This Mario game has a checkpoint system and progression exactly like every other 2D Mario game. We like that and most people like that, so that's what we did." I guess you might have some sort of point if you're trying to say, in some roundabout way, that Mario games have always been intrinsically flawed in that fashion... But I'm willing to bet most people up in arms about this actually like old Mario platformers, or at least recognize that the games' formula is well-regarded and established enough that changing it into some sort of credit-feeding gauntlet would be sort of a retarded non-sequitur.
I can't believe you don't see the ridiculousness of this statement. "Oh man, Nintendo's latest Mario game isn't challenging like this super-nichey hardcore stuff! I name them 'Betrayer'!" Nintendo never made that stuff, they didn't do some 180 on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I can't wait 'til your next post where you get upset at McDonald's for not being gourmet anymore.
So capitalism, market forces, and consumer demand are evil sorcery when they give results you don't like? Ah, ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
If you ask me, videogames trying more to be like movies is more a disservice than NSMBWii being a SMB game through and through, even if it wants you to "feel good" playing it. Better that then Pretend Movie that Makes You Feel Badass because You Get to Shoot/Stab Guys in the Face Every 10 Minutes but Hey Look at the Story That's Good Right?
Not to say you can't have that AND NSMBWii, but it's tiring to act like its one way or another only.
Which is exactly why I have reacted in the way that I have to their statements, because those two figureheads have characterized the debate in exactly that type of polar set.
I have no specific problem with NSMB Wii. I'm sure it's a fine SMB game. I'll never buy it and likely never play it, but I'm sure it's fine.
I already stated what I do have a problem with, in response to their statements.
Seeing as how NSMBW isn't any easier than its predecessors on average, I don't see how this is relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Why worry about others following their lead now when that particular lead has been established for 20+ years already?
You could take up a new hobby? Sewing? Civil War re-enactments?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
fixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You're being dishonest. Few are showing simple disagreement. Most negative post are along the lines of "I hate Nintendo" or "I will never buy another Nintendo game"Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
I understand. Yoshi's saying that Nintendo (the left wing) is pulling down the difficulty of videogames (ruining America) and he's using words like "frightening" and plowing straight through to the word "socialist", and putting words like "enjoyed" in quotes to emphasize that he doesn't mean he really "enjoyed" it. He's going out of his way to read an interview that he shouldn't be interested in so he can connect it to the declining difficulty (quality) of videogames (America), except for Cave shooters (the conservative right), even though he probably never even plays (has conversations with) Cave shooters in depth (enough to understand what they're really about beyond shooting things and saving money) and i never see him talking about how great From Software's other games are, like King's Field or Armored Core, even though he's propping them up as "The Right Way To Do Things." If you really look into it, Enchanted Arms (Sarah Palin) is not what you want from videogames and being that 3D Dot Heroes is a thinly-disguised Zelda (Nancy Pelosi), you won't enjoy that either.
Congratulations, Yoshi. Being the Glenn Beck of a videogame message board is some kind of achievement that you need stamped on your signature, with "I'm an entertainer, but I present myself as a raving idiot/wise prophet, depending what side you're on."
Do they have some cool slippery slope water slides where you are vacationing at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
finch tries to outfag himself at every turn
Shut up Joust, you're the Comic Book Guy of TNL.
I thought Joust was the negative asshole that no one takes seriously because he never has anything positive to say so you have nothing to compare any of his opinions against.
That's some world-class Reading Comprehension Fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by squall_vb
Summary so far, James is right.
I agree with a lot of what Miya 'n Iwata are saying (points, not 'facts'), but if they are influencing developers based on this interview, using Mario Wii as the focal point is a bad example to go about when talking about their general ideals. I'm betting less than 10% of the sales were sparked from word of mouth in the difficulty. Sales were up because Mario Wii was Guilty Gear Isuka repackaged as the highest recognizably repackaged 2D platforming nostalgia trip this year. This difficulty discussion would have much more merit for discussion in releasing a new IP like Captain Rainbow than it would for the most recognizable franchise in videogames. You can't say "oh I did something a little different with the lighting in the next Twilight" and discuss the film's success as if lighting was the dependent characteristic of the series. Twilight is gonna sell mad gazillions anyway because dumb chicks wanna see little boys on 'roids.
Still, I'd like Iwata & Miyamoto to trade places with Yokoi.
^ Did that start out as English?
it made perfect sense and I agree with what he said
This is a late entry into the post of the year running. Not all (much?) of it is true, but I applaud the thought and creativity behind it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1261430679Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Amen to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Incompetent
This thread is gold.
Derp!
I agree with Melf. This thread has been a hoot. I wish I had popcorn.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1261445201Quote:
Originally Posted by Geen
anyone got a pic of a black piece of coal posting the picture of the pot telling the kettle it is black?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I especially like the part where Yoshi put words in the mouth of those big wig Nintendo guys.
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/
Do I COMPLETELY agree with their stated philosophy here? No. But I fully understand where they are coming from. The backlash in this thread is also insight into one of the largest reasons the Japanese gaming industry is dying and becoming increasingly isolated.
America is full of assholes?
No no... not that one. The other one.
I swear that article was linked or mentioned here before. I'm pretty sure I remember reading it. It's a solid article, if not acerbic.
I don't think I understand this statement, though, unless it's made to insinuate that more people believe that games are designed with the intent to make the player use the Continue function. I guess it all depends what backlash you're referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by wip3outguy7
Otherwise, hell, that article further reinforces what I've said in response to the original quotes throughout this entire thread.
There's nothing to prove that Nintendo's lack of challenge in platforming games (or any of its games for that matter) has any effect on other developers and where they set the challenge level for their products. The "domino effect" in that premise is dildos.
I still don't see how a debate over how difficult Nintendo's games are is pertinent to the original post.
Those two gooks made no comparison of how difficult they think NSMB Wii is to some other specific game - they merely explained their theory behind one aspect of the game's design.
What the debate should be about is the statements they made in that explanation.
That wouldn't be very TNL of us all.
No, no precedent exists at all. No one followed Nintendo's lead when shoe-horning game-detracting waggle shit into their games either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunbubbah
Well, obviously. Remember how all of those fantastic third party launch titles were lauded for their impeccable implication of motion-sensing control? Those were the salad days, man :nod: . Before Nintendo's precedent.
Anyone copying Nintendo needs to learn to come up with their own ideas.
There were no third party launch games of any import. Real publishers are doing that shit now.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Remember that sweet ass Police 9-11 game with the motion sensors, and how the Wii was gonna be EVEN BETTER??
Police 911 and Mocap Boxing are the Citizen Kane and Citizen Kane 2 of gaming respectively. But those were before Nintendo showed everyone that not every motion-sensing videogame has to be fantastic like those. Some can be gimmicky and kind of shitty. If it not for those jerks, we'd still be getting masterpiece after masterpiece on the EyeToy :cry:.
Citizen Kane 2 is the one where he has the comeback and wins at the end. I like that one the best.
Iwata says practice makes perfect, Yoshi responds with "This is Socialism", Bbobb says, "I hate Nintendo", you respond with "You don't have to use the continue function in a good arcade game, but I like using it so I don't have to start over". I'm not sure this was ever a debate more than it was a practice in Dadaism.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
more like meeting of the negative nellies
If Miyamoto weren't black ya'll won't be talkin this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Oh snap!
Police 911 is pretty fucking great. The Wii is not. I honestly don't know why I haven't sold mine.
Goddamn Vietnamese gaming industry, I can't believe how much it sucks now since it ruled the day back in the 80s. What the hell is wrong with southeast Asia, anyway? Ah well, at least the Vietnamese vert shooters are still top-notch, even if they lean too heavily on bullet hell and rote memorization.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Would have been nice if anything had ever come out of Japan. I bet they'd have had some interesting ideas about game design.
James
Dude all gooks look and sound alike with their ching chong wing wong language and sloped foreheads and such. How am I supposed to know where those two are from.
Compass
I read the link and this is what I got out of the discussion as well. It seems the discussed design is based on the philosophy that it is better when one is able to overcome the more difficult obstacles in a cohesive level flow allowing one to develop a gameplay rhythm leading back up to the challenge rather than just ramming through it head on repeatedly until finally breaking through from a shortened, more concentrated distance (provided in the form of numerous continues or checkpoints restarting you at or close to the point of failure). This makes me think of games along the lines of PS2 Shinobi (the exception being boss battles).Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Gooks are Korean, Chinks are Chinese. Japs, Chow Mein ,and eggrolls are Japanese. Charlies, Rice eaters, and Ho Chi Men are Vietnamese.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Please consult your Redneck to Asian insult dictionary next time before you open your mouth.
I thought gooks were Vietnamese.
Those don't make any sense at all! In my part of Pennsyltucky we were always careful to make sure we applied the right slur to the right group of filthy slant eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I'm not getting how "Chow Mein" and "Eggrolls" are slurs for the Japanese either, but maybe that's part of the puzzle - slurs, and the people that use them, are stupid.
Chow mein is a Chinese dish, and egg rolls are more known with the Chinese as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I'm sure racist are aware of that.
I bet they spent many hours researching how black people look like racoons before calling them coons as well.
Hey, can this thread be called, "This Just In: Tendo Doesn't Get It" so we have some kind of play on "Intendo"? I keep reading it as "Intendo Doesn't Get It" and i'm so disappointed when i realize that it doesn't really say that. Also, it could be some kind of questionable reference to Ranma 1/2, like a fan-fic or something where girl Ranma feels more attracted to Akane than boy Ranma does. It'd be funny.
that show was rarely funny.
Shut your cracker-ass mouth.
My daughter got a Wii for Christmas. After playing NSMB and the WiiWare Excitebike, seems to me that Nintendo gets it just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
No problem moron,
Gooks = Vietnamese
Japs = NIPPERS.
And it took a fuckin' Mc to correct the Asian guy - unbelievable!
In his defense though, I'm sure he was preoccupied with his other tabs in which he was saving all baby pictures on TNL to his HDD for future use.
Have her sign up here so that I can argue with her about how Nintendo doesn't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
Christ, I like the kid too much to do that to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
man, mzo would go nuts trying to get that A/S/L
I think we have the "s" and "l" already.
As much as I think I should moderate on this thread a little I'm just gonna let it ride due to the pure entertainment quality so far.
Carry On.
In Korean, the word hangook means a korean person and migook means an American person. So it stands to r eason that gook originally referref to Koreans. But Nam followed on the heels of Korea so servicemen probably borrowed slurs, so its probably ok to apply it either way. Not to the Japanese though.
People trying to apply logical thought to how racist think is pretty funny. Please continue.
Gook is Vietnamese. It might have meant something at another point in time, and your average racist might not care enough about nationality to properly discern country of origin before throwing it around, but it's specifically Vietnamese anyway.
James
Your mom is Vietnamese.