This Just In: Nintendo Doesn't Get It

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

different industries. For you analogy to work, it would require the book and music industry to be good last year and suddenly huge things to change about either. Like I don't know, making the print taste like chocolate or something.

and any time anything does go more mainstream, people do bitch. Go look at anything weeman says about music. And people were bitching about harry potter. About how it was low grade literature.

The only reason the game industry is different is because it has not became static yet. It has not settled on how it will define itself. Books and music have mostly been the same for a 1000 years. And anytime they do change, tons of people bitch.

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couldn't agree more

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Because there was one way Nintendo could have fucked up the DS but didn't, they're correcting their oversight in its successor.

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So adding motion sensing automatically fucks the DS up? Have you seen how many bullshit motion sensitive games are showing up on cell phones? They oughta make a killing off of this.

When Yoshi talks about Nintendo's fuckups, he's not talking about something that makes bad business sense. Nintendo could re-release the fucking Fatboy and still buy the Eastern Seaboard with the profits. He's talking about bullshit motion controls ruining everything which is almost always accurate.

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Originally Posted by epmode

When Yoshi talks about Nintendo's fuckups, he's not talking about something that makes bad business sense. Nintendo could re-release the fucking Fatboy and still buy the Eastern Seaboard with the profits. He's talking about bullshit motion controls ruining everything which is almost always accurate.

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What have the motion controls ruined? Please tell me how motion sensitive controls have become a hideous cancer ruining every game they touch? Sure they've been implemented on some truly ass games but those games were likely to be ass in the first place. People pissed and moaned that the touch screen on the DS was going to wreck the system but some games used it and used it well, some ignored it altogether etc. etc. There were truckloads of shit games back when Atari had a stick and one button. Once again it's the dev's fault and not the features of the system.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The worst is the 360 commercial where the grandmother that is also on Glee spits milk out and says some bullshit about "now we're having fun." Sony's current marketing campaign is by far the best, though it pales in comparison to those of the past.

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Sony's PS3 marketing right now is spot on and amazing. The problem with the PS3 for some consumers is the fact that there isn't a lot of exclusives worth playing. Microsoft's year head start turned out to be a vital advantage in their strategy.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Just because there's room doesn't mean we should let undesirables fill it. We need a gaming border patrol.

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We should white wash all games. A master catalogue of white, pure games only. It's the ultimate solution.

But you have to do all the work because I don't have time.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

What have the motion controls ruined? Please tell me how motion sensitive controls have become a hideous cancer ruining every game they touch? Sure they've been implemented on some truly ass games but those games were likely to be ass in the first place. People pissed and moaned that the touch screen on the DS was going to wreck the system but some games used it and used it well, some ignored it altogether etc. etc. There were truckloads of shit games back when Atari had a stick and one button. Once again it's the dev's fault and not the features of the system.

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Devs weren't making shitty Atari games because they were trying to shoehorn in a crappy gimmick though. So many potentially good Wii games (and others that are excellent otherwise) have suffered from having crappy motion controls added just because it's there. Some devs did it right (Metroid Prime 3, RE 4), but the majority haven't. Even Nintendo itself is guilty. I know I really didn't want to shake the fucking wiimote to pick up things in NSMB Wii, and while it didn't break the game, it didn't add a damn thing to it. It's motion control for motion control's sake, and it needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Melf

So many potentially good Wii games (and others that are excellent otherwise) have suffered from having crappy motion controls added just because it's there. Some devs did it right (Metroid Prime 3, RE 4), but the majority haven't.

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I make a further distinction. Metroid Prime 3 and RE 4 Wii both use pointer controls. Pointer controls are fine, especially when used correctly. Motion control (ie waggle) is almost always shit. In fact, I can't even think of a game that was actually improved by waggle.

I can, but only one: Mercury Meltdown Revolution.

No More Heroes had waggle, and was fun.

NSMB Wii also has waggle and is fun. But the waggle tries its best to ruin the game!

Play games that don't have waggle.

When I was a small boy i remember someone in the bathroom saying that if you waggle your wii more than three times after you are done, you're offically playing with yourself.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

The problem with the PS3 for some consumers is the fact that there isn't a lot of exclusives worth playing.

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:wtf: The PS3's exclusives beat the living shit out the 360's in volume and quality. I thought this was just accepted as fact around here now. Perhaps you mean perception of Wal Mart shopping troglodytes?

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Originally Posted by Melf

Devs weren't making shitty Atari games because they were trying to shoehorn in a crappy gimmick though. So many potentially good Wii games (and others that are excellent otherwise) have suffered from having crappy motion controls added just because it's there. Some devs did it right (Metroid Prime 3, RE 4), but the majority haven't. Even Nintendo itself is guilty. I know I really didn't want to shake the fucking wiimote to pick up things in NSMB Wii, and while it didn't break the game, it didn't add a damn thing to it. It's motion control for motion control's sake, and it needs to stop.

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Indeed we don't want motion control for motion control's sake. That's still a dev problem. The industry shouldn't stagnate and avoid potential innovations just to "keep lazy devs" in check. Some games have done motion control well. Even RE4 Wii did certain waggle bits quite well.

Some devs can control themselves, Enix didn't make DQ IV and V on the DS have any touch elements. They could have but didn't. Eventually after the tech isn't so damn new (after a gen or two) devs will either figure out good ways to use it or ignore it. If it gets ignored enough then perhaps Nintendo and the other guys will drop it from their consoles but to write it off because it's not doing so well and devs are being lazy with it is no reason to write it off. Be pissed at other consumers that don't demand better before buying.

There has never been a game that benefitted from waggle.

It doesn't belong.

Little Big Planet, MGS4, Demon's Souls, inFamous, Ninja Gaiden Sigma... plenty of great PS3 exclusives. The reason to buy the 360 is Live.

Buttons are precise. Waggle is imprecise. No game benefits from sloppy controls.* The imprecision requires devs to make the games very easy, compounding the error.


*Except for that drunk driving flash game: http://flashgamesite.com/play656game.html

I posted this in the Wii thread, but it deserves a second mention.

Capcom is cutting back on Wii support. It seems a third company (after EA and Sega) has finally realized that games made for people over 12 don't sell on the system.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I posted this in the Wii thread, but it deserves a second mention.

Capcom is cutting back on Wii support. It seems a third company (after EA and Sega) has finally realized that games made for people over 12 don't sell on the system.

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"How could Nintendo, yet again, try and claim back this lost [hardcore] audience? Leave your thoughts below..."

Here's how Nintendo can do it: Publish the Metroids, Marios and Zeldas on PS360. Release the casual games on the Wii. Nintendo will make even more money and everybody will be happy.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

There has never been a game that benefitted from waggle.

It doesn't belong.

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Personal preference for me is that I'd rather waggle than mash. Besides, most of the time when one is mashing they're also waggling the pad. That being said for some reason devs are deciding to replace things that are done well with a button with waggling for some reason.

For the most part I do agree with TNL that waggle is fairly retarded and oft poorly implemented. Still a believer in the potential for motion controls.

Button mashing is also retarded, but I've never once waved my controller around like a mongoloid due to pressing buttons.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

Here's how Nintendo can do it: Publish the Metroids, Marios and Zeldas on PS360. Release the casual games on the Wii. Nintendo will make even more money and everybody will be happy.

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PS360 have enough garbages in their library, no need to add more.
:fail:

Silly Asian, Metroid isn't garbage. It's the best Castlvania ever!

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Originally Posted by bbobb

There has never been a game that benefitted from waggle.

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Dreamcast Samba De Amigo is one of the greatest games ever. It is awful without waggle.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

Personal preference for me is that I'd rather waggle than mash.

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Eh... I like wagglemash in the new Excitebike if I'm in a tense race, especially online. When a dumb crash threatens my lead, I want to shake the controller furiously. But when I'm just puttering along a bronze cup course in single player... It would be nice if buttonmash was also an option.

Wagglemash + frustrated emotion = works

Otherwise, not so much.

And why all the waggle talk anyway? You guys make it seem like the Wii doesn't track the controller in any other way.

Pointing is awesome

Rotating is awesome (Bit Trip Beat)

1:1 Wii Motion Plus stuff is awesome



Give the waggle complaint a rest. It is clearly a dev problem, not a fundamental motion problem.

It doesn't really matter to me what the source of the problem is, since I have no control over it.

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Originally Posted by kedawa

It doesn't really matter to me what the source of the problem is, since I have no control over it.

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You have all the control over it that you could possibly need: Don't play the shit you don't like.

The devs will have it all sorted out by next gen. Remember when CD games were either cartridge games marred by horrible voice-overs and long load times, or unplayable FMV shit? That lasted one gen. Now huge amounts of storage space are welcomed by all.

By the time the Ybox 720 hits the shelves packing standard wiimote+chuck style controllers, we will look back and wonder how we got along without it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

:wtf: The PS3's exclusives beat the living shit out the 360's in volume and quality. I thought this was just accepted as fact around here now. Perhaps you mean perception of Wal Mart shopping troglodytes?

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Uncharted and Uncharted 2. That's everything I have played on the system I couldn't have done without. 360 also has hands down the best online system going. So any game that can utilize online in any meaningful way like Army of Two, GRAW 1 & 2, Rainbow Six Vegas, Mercenaries (which sucked), Modern Warfare, Crackdown, Ghostbusters, etc. are all a better buy with the 360. And because of that even single player 3rd party games like Assassin's Creed, Arkum Asylum, and Brutal Legend are a better purchase on Xbox (maybe not Asylum for the tacked on Joker levels) and make the 360 a much better bang for your buck BECAUSE you don't have to buy another system to get them. The PS3 does have a wicked blu-ray player. But I already have a blu-ray player.

It's just a better value for me. I bought a PS3 last year and I've only played 3 games on it that I would consider great experiences. I played Infamous too. That game was bland and forgettable. I knew it was a mistake buying a PS3 going in to it when I was looking at racing games like Dirt to try and justify the purchase. It doesn't even play PS2 games anymore. Thank god Uncharted 2 is so good. It's really the thing the system has to hang its hat on.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

Little Big Planet, MGS4, Demon's Souls, inFamous, Ninja Gaiden Sigma... plenty of great PS3 exclusives. The reason to buy the 360 is Live.

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Little Big Planet is a chore. MGS4 is pretty good. Not a huge fan of MGS after 2. inFamous is fun for the first few hours. After that the game design is repetitive and the setting in general seems a bit half baked. Not a huge fan of Ninja Gaiden style action games. Nothing I would actively buy a system just to play.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

"How could Nintendo, yet again, try and claim back this lost [hardcore] audience? Leave your thoughts below..."

Here's how Nintendo can do it: Publish the Metroids, Marios and Zeldas on PS360. Release the casual games on the Wii. Nintendo will make even more money and everybody will be happy.

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Since the N64 days I've only ever bought Nintendo systems for games like Zelda, Mario and Metroid. If they were published on the big boy systems I'd never buy a Nintendo platform again.

Nintendo and Rare had some really good games back in the mid to late 90's though. Oh well... I bet so long as Nintendo keeps making money off of their Wii-Shit shovelware titles they won't be so motivated to develop any real games.

OH! And their complete lack of online network gameplay is horse shit.

Right, they can keep their little shit platform for grandma and the kiddies to play minigames on, and then make their good games on a decent console to compete with current content from every other developer worth a damn that won't look like shit on my HDTV and isn't overly reliant on their waggle gimmick.

Sounds perfect.

...and speaking of Rare, what ever happened to Battletoads?! When was the last time we saw one of those?

Rare lost whatever they had years and years ago. All they can do now is horrify with their character designs.

Didn't most of its talent jump ship for Time Splitters? That series was OK. Didn't really keep up with the polish and advancement a lot of the newer FPS games had.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Uncharted and Uncharted 2. That's everything I have played on the system I couldn't have done without. 360 also has hands down the best online system going. So any game that can utilize online in any meaningful way like Army of Two, GRAW 1 & 2, Rainbow Six Vegas, Mercenaries (which sucked), Modern Warfare, Crackdown, Ghostbusters, etc. are all a better buy with the 360. And because of that even single player 3rd party games like Assassin's Creed, Arkum Asylum, and Brutal Legend are a better purchase on Xbox (maybe not Asylum for the tacked on Joker levels) and make the 360 a much better bang for your buck BECAUSE you don't have to buy another system to get them. The PS3 does have a wicked blu-ray player. But I already have a blu-ray player.

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You just got done writing a paragraph without listing a single 360 exclusive except for fucking Crackdown when the topic was exclusives. It wasn't best versions (which are all on PC) or best online experience.

Yoshi, you finally got a PC?

The ole Tandy finally bit the dust.

I was going to butt in and say that drew meant that there weren't enough exclusives to make the average consumer pick the ps3 over the 360, but then he had to go and make a list and ruin everything.

The ps3 has great exclusives, yes, but not enough to immediately win over your average joe, especially when your average joe is really into playing Modern Warfare 2 with his friends who all have 360s.

I don't even think exclusives matter that much any more with third parties going multiplatform on every title. It used to matter when Capcom/Konami/EA would go exclusive on a particular system.

We already acknowledged that third parties have far superior titles than either Sony/MS anyway. Nintendo is a different conversation altogether.

Sony or Microsoft has published my Game of the Year the last four years if I remember right, interestingly enough. It's the reason I haven't just gone completely to PC.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

Yoshi, you finally got a PC?

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Nah. Just a pair of Macs that run Windows Vista.

As long as WoW runs, amirite?

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Originally Posted by kedawa

Button mashing is also retarded, but I've never once waved my controller around like a mongoloid due to pressing buttons.

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Then you've never done it right or w/ enough desperation.

I'm fairly certain waving the controller around lessens the effectiveness of the mashing, so he is in fact doing it right.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm fairly certain waving the controller around lessens the effectiveness of the mashing, so he is in fact doing it right.

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You've never done it right either.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262904275

When I was scrolling down I thought that was a chicken at first.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You just got done writing a paragraph without listing a single 360 exclusive except for fucking Crackdown when the topic was exclusives. It wasn't best versions (which are all on PC) or best online experience.

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PC is a separate beast.

It wasn't my intention to strike up an old console vs. console discussion. So fuck that. I was just saying that the PS3 has very little exclusives worthwhile to pry me away from my already-warm 360. Games like Arkum Asylum are better on the PS3, yet a few Joker levels aren't enough for me to drop 400 dollars on a system that already has 99% of the games I want to play for the PS3. And with a better online service there's even less reason since most developers are focusing on co-op and multiplayer in many games, too (Splinter Cell: Conviction is a huge co-op game I'm already looking forward to this year).

I play games on PC, too. Namely Valve games, Red Alert 3, and Borderlands. I'm planning on getting together a killer rig later this year.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

I was going to butt in and say that drew meant that there weren't enough exclusives to make the average consumer pick the ps3 over the 360, but then he had to go and make a list and ruin everything.

The ps3 has great exclusives, yes, but not enough to immediately win over your average joe, especially when your average joe is really into playing Modern Warfare 2 with his friends who all have 360s.

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Whatever. I was just saying I don't see anything compulsively making me want a PS3 when I was already a 360 owner. The year head start really did Microsoft some favors.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

I don't even think exclusives matter that much any more with third parties going multiplatform on every title. It used to matter when Capcom/Konami/EA would go exclusive on a particular system.

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You're absolutely right. Exclusives aren't a factor as much anymore when 3rd parties are bringing it to the table. Which is why I mentioned 360's headstart being the kicker here. If I hadn't already bought a 360 I probably would have picked up a PS3 (well the price was fucking shit but still) and been playing shit on that instead. But because Microsoft had the year head start AND killer online Sony needed to bring something to the table to really make me want it over my 360.

The best attempts they've done are the blu-ray player, Uncharted 1 & 2, Little Big Planet, and MGS4. These may be all great games, but not enough to make me switch. Especially if I didn't have disposable income burning a hole in my pocket.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262904275

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If that's how you're mashing then you're totally doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

The ps3 has great exclusives, yes, but not enough to immediately win over your average joe, especially when your average joe is really into playing Modern Warfare 2 with his friends who all have 360s.

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the person you just described can go fuck himself running backward.

All anti-culture up in this bitch