TNL's 20 Favorite Games of All-Time

Prologue

Way back in late September, TNL began to vote for its favorite games. Expanding upon the voting and results of TNL's Top Ten Games of the Last Generation, the all-time favorites list was much more difficult to tabulate due to pure volume. 62 people voted for a total of 317 different games. Here are some other interesting statistics:

• 193 of the 317 games received only a single vote.
• Only four of the 317 games received 10 or more votes.
• The most first place votes any game received was three; there were two such games.
• Two of the top five and four of the top 10 games did not receive a first place vote.

Without further ado, here are the results:

TNL's 20 Favorite Games of All-Time are...

Tied for #20, receiving four votes for 29.5 points...
Daytona USA
Developed by AM2 and Published by Sega
Originally Played in the Arcade

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #20, receiving five votes for 29.5 points...
Super Castlevania IV
Developed and Published by Konami
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


#19, receiving three votes for 30 points...
Phantasy Star II
Developed and Published by Sega
Originally Played on the Sega Genesis

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


#18, receiving seven votes for 30.5 points...
Jet Grind Radio
Developed by Smilebit and Published by Sega
Exclusively Played on the Sega Dreamcast

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #16, receiving four votes for 34 points...
Chrono Trigger
Developed and Published by Squaresoft
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #16, receiving six votes for 34 points...
Crazy Taxi
Developed by AM3 and Published by Sega
Originally Played in the Arcade

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #14, receiving six votes for 35 points...
Final Fantasy IV
Developed and Published by Squaresoft
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #14, receiving seven votes for 35 points...
Shadow of the Colossus
Developed by Team Ico and Published by Sony
Exclusively Played on the Sony PlayStation 2

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #12, receiving six votes for 35.5 points...
Metal Gear Solid
Developed and Published by Konami
Originally Played on the Sony PlayStation

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


Tied for #12, receiving six votes for 35.5 points...
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Developed and Published by Nintendo
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


#11, receiving six votes for 37.5 points...
Planescape: Torment
Developed by Black Isle Studios and Published by Interplay
Exclusively Played on the PC :portalhug:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633


And now, TNL's Top Ten Favorite Games of All-Time

Tied at #9, receiving six votes for 38 points...
Mega Man 2
Developed and Published by Capcom
Originally Played on the Nintendo Entertanment System

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: I wish this weren't the first game on which I have to comment. This series wasn't that great in the 1980s. I cannot fathom why anyone would still like it 20 years later.

Tied at #9, receiving seven votes for 38 points...
Street Fighter III
Developed and Published by Capcom
Originally Played in the Arcade

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: I am pleasantly surprised that this one made the list. A very strong case could be made that Third Strike is the best fighter ever, even though I am not a huge fan of the character designs like so many other people are.

#8, receiving seven votes for 38.5 points...
Half-Life
Developed by Valve and Published by Sierra
Originally Played on the PC :portalhug:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: This one probably should have been higher on the list, as some people voted for Counter-Strike separately. Since that was just a mod originally, it should have been merged, looking back.

#7, receiving six votes for 47 points...
Super Mario Bros.
Developed by R&D4 and Published by Nintendo
Originally Played on the Nintendo Entertanment System

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: This is one of those games that I can more understand being on a favorites list like this one than a best of list. Some people have such fond memories of this that they rank it higher than far better games, even in the same series.

#6, receiving 10 votes for 51 points...
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Developed and Published by Konami
Originally Played on the Sony PlayStation

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: The good news is that two games from my favorite series made the list. The bad news is that neither of them is the best one. In fact, only bbobb and I voted for Rondo of Blood, so the rest of you fail for either not playing it or for not recognizing that is the ultimate Castlevania. Maybe the new WiiWare game will help, since it follows Rondo's mold somewhat.

#5, receiving seven votes for 52.5 points...
Deus Ex
Developed by Ion Storm and Published by Eidos
Originally Played on the PC :portalhug:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: I honestly didn't think the PC would get three games in the Top 20 or one in the Top Five, so I am pleasantly surprised once again. I have only feint hope that the new sequel will live up to its pedigree without the original developers from Ion Storm.

#4, receiving nine votes for 58 points...
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Developed by EAD and Published by Nintendo
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: I'd like to thank the little people, like Mario. That douchebag thinks he is the star, and I just can't bring myself to burst his bubble (pun intended).

#3, receiving 10 votes for 58.5 points...
Street Fighter II
Developed and Published by Capcom
Originally Played in the Arcade

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: If only there was a 21st century game like this to once again save arcades. I can remember literally taking paychecks to the movie theater or mall arcade to play this, especially when Champion Edition came out.

#2, receiving 11 votes for 59 points...
Super Mario Bros. 3
Developed by R&D4 and Published by Nintendo
Originally Played on the Nintendo Entertanment System

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: There are way too many Nintendo games, and particularly Mario games, in this list. Since it's a favorites list, it's impossible to say that people are wrong by definition, but to me an abundance of Nintendo games is a sign of overall lack of depth of experience. There are just so many better but lesser known games out there.

And TNL's Favorite Game of All-Time, receiving 15 votes for 108.5 points...
Super Metroid
Developed by R&D1 and Published by Nintendo
Originally Played on the Super Nintendo

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1262315633

Yoshi's Take: Thank God a Mario game didn't finish on top. Metroid I can live with, since it's the least repulsive of Nintendo's major series. Zelda getting shut out of the Top Ten is icing as well. I'd say more here, but I have never played Super Metroid. In fact, I think it's the only game on this list that I haven't. Maybe I should...

Epilogue

I find it interesting but not surprising how much a few companies dominated the list:

• Nintendo 5
• Sega 4
• Capcom 3
• Konami 3
• Squaresoft 2

That's 17 of the 21 and all but one console game.

Another observation that I believe is related to the first is that the newest game on the list was released in 2005. If you throw out Shadow of the Colossus, you have to go all the way back to 2000 to get to Deus Ex and Jet Grind Radio. So 18 of the 21 were from the last millennium. The reason I say this is related to the first comment is that Japan would have no chance of dominating a 21st Century list.

I am sure others will have interesting things they see as well, but that's all for me for now. I hope you enjoy this, as it took many hours to tabulate, despite being a labor of love.

Games on the list that absolutely should not be higher than Crazy Taxi:

Final Fantasy Anything
Chrono Trigger
Shadow of the Colossus
Metal Gear Solid
Zelda Anything
Symphony of the Night

Nice work, Yoshi.

Very nicely done.

#4- Did you mean "burst," or am I missing the play on words?

This is actually a pretty good list.

Never understood Crazy Taxi love.

Otherwise a good list

Thanks for all the effort compiling this, Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The good news is that two games from my favorite series made the list. The bad news is that neither of them is the best one. In fact, only bbobb and I voted for Rondo of Blood, so the rest of you fail for either not playing it or for not recognizing that is the ultimate Castlevania.

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Rondo and Symphony are pretty much equals as far as I'm concerned but I have a slight preference for the latter. But yeah, I have to wonder why people would choose Castlevania IV over Rondo for the traditional ones.

Awesome work, Yoshi.
I can't believe I forgot to vote in the original thread. Oy.

I am glad I didn't vote because there are maybe 5 games I agree with. The rest are overrated garbage.

Good effort tho, Yoshi.

Agreed - for all the bitching that many people here do about the Top 100 lists that other places put out, this list doesn't look terribly different from them.

Rampant fronting.

Thanks for putting this thing together, Yoshi.

I'm a bit disappointed in the list as a whole, though. This was supposed to be in response to awful top games list put out my gaming sites and publications, but it isn't any better. We criticized other lists for not having any historical perspective on games, but this list doesn't even go back farther than Super Mario Bros. (although this wasn't one of my criteria when I voted). What's also lame is that in the other list that Yoshi put together, the best games of last generation, Resident Evil 4 came in number one by a landslide, yet is nowhere to be seen here. Jet Grind Radio, however, cracks this list but ranked 10th on the last list. The consensus best game of last generation wasn't on anyone's favorite list?

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Originally Posted by Nash

I'm a bit disappointed in the list as a whole, though. This was supposed to be in response to awful top games list put out my gaming sites and publications, but it isn't any better.

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Part of that is due to the restrictions and scoring. It was pretty clear early on that popular but only moderately-liked titles were going to place high just from being placed anywhere on several people's lists, whereas lesser-known stuff didn't stand a chance. I also had a pretty hard time narrowing my list down from 20 to 10, and there's not a huge gap between my #1 and #20.

Nice effort, though.

The list looks okay. I never played extensively a Nintendo game. Never even owned a NES or SNES. I owned SMS, Sega Genesis, and Turbografx.

I don't think I voted, so i can't complain.

Who fucking cares?

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Originally Posted by Nash

What's also lame is that in the other list that Yoshi put together, the best games of last generation, Resident Evil 4 came in number one by a landslide, yet is nowhere to be seen here. Jet Grind Radio, however, cracks this list but ranked 10th on the last list. The consensus best game of last generation wasn't on anyone's favorite list?

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More proof that people have short term memory? JSR made a great impression on people that I don't think many other [better] games have been able to accomplish.

Interesting to note, 9 of the games can be played in some form on the SNES.

Somehow I missed this before -

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'd say more here, but I have never played Super Metroid.

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Dude, after all the shit you have given people for liking the SNES more than the Genesis or missing out on lesser known games, not having played it is just wrong.

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Originally Posted by dog$

Agreed - for all the bitching that many people here do about the Top 100 lists that other places put out, this list doesn't look terribly different from them.

Rampant fronting.

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Ocarina of Time isn't on it at all, let alone #1. Much better than other lists!

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Somehow I missed this before -

Dude, after all the shit you have given people for liking the SNES more than the Genesis or missing out on lesser known games, not having played it is just wrong.

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this forever will put anything Yoshi has to say into perspective.

Awesome list, and that's not just the bias talking since my #1 game made #1. The big thing that sets this apart from some of the other lists is that these are games that we're fond of instead of games that revolutionized/evolved gaming or games that are just plain better. There are a ton of games better than Super Metroid, but it just happens to hit home with a lot of TNLers.

Gungrave should be on there

This isn't the first time Super Metroid has made #1 on some list. I genuinely wonder if Super Metroid is some sort of pinnacle or apex in game design. A highest point as far as graphics, sound, atmosphere, and playability coming together as a total package is concerned.

Also, I think this list is pretty much faultless. Good job, Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Somehow I missed this before -

Dude, after all the shit you have given people for liking the SNES more than the Genesis or missing out on lesser known games, not having played it is just wrong.

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Perhaps, and I will get around to it on VC, but it's not going to change anything. It's one of the few SNES games I have not played, and it's a style of game I don't find that engaging. Remember that I don't even like the Castlevanias of that style all that much. So I'll play it to check a box but not because it's going to close the chasm between the Genesis and the SNES or anything else like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nash

I'm a bit disappointed in the list as a whole, though. This was supposed to be in response to awful top games list put out my gaming sites and publications, but it isn't any better. We criticized other lists for not having any historical perspective on games, but this list doesn't even go back farther than Super Mario Bros. (although this wasn't one of my criteria when I voted). What's also lame is that in the other list that Yoshi put together, the best games of last generation, Resident Evil 4 came in number one by a landslide, yet is nowhere to be seen here. Jet Grind Radio, however, cracks this list but ranked 10th on the last list. The consensus best game of last generation wasn't on anyone's favorite list?

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This crossed my mind too. In fact, I think RE4 only received a single vote. Hell, the series only received three I think. I personally voted for the original. I think what happened is that everyone took favorite to mean "childhood memories." Way too many people started on SNES here, and it shows. On a positive note, FFVII didn't even come close to making the Top 20.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

this forever will put anything Yoshi has to say into perspective.

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Yes, clearly. Admitting that I haven't taken the time to play every game in genres I don't enjoy that much shall taint my very existence for all eternity. If it makes you feel better, I haven't played many games in that genre on the Genesis either. *gasp*

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Yoshi's Take: Thank God a Mario game didn't finish on top. Metroid I can live with, since it's the least repulsive of Nintendo's major series. Zelda getting shut out of the Top Ten is icing as well. I'd say more here, but I have never played Super Metroid. In fact, I think it's the only game on this list that I haven't. Maybe I should...
.

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I was thinking about making a thread about people that play through high profile games that they missed when the game was at its peak. Seemed like a GAF "late to the party" thing, so I declined.

I STILL haven't played the whole way through Super Metroid either. I've played through almost all of the other games in the series, but never finished that one. I really should do that.

I don't think I voted. Do-over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Yes, clearly. Admitting that I haven't taken the time to play every game in genres I don't enjoy that much shall taint my very existence for all eternity. If it makes you feel better, I haven't played many games in that genre on the Genesis either. *gasp*

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This being said not having played Super Metroid is the gaming equivalent of claiming to be a film critic that skipped out on Citizen Kane or the Godfathers. Playing it may put the genre in perspective for you and help you appreciate it better.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

This being said not having played Super Metroid is the gaming equivalent of claiming to be a film critic that skipped out on Citizen Kane or the Godfathers. Playing it may put the genre in perspective for you and help you appreciate it better.

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I don't like Japanese Action RPGs either, and the only perspective any Zelda game added is that Nintendo games are nearly always hugely overrated because people were limited at some point to one platform and didn't see the greener grass. That said, Metroid being a Gunpei Yokoi series and not a Miyamoto one gives me some hope.

I'm glad this whole thread has turned into this idiocy though, especially when I guarantee that several people who voted for Nintendo games haven't played the PC games on the list. And, no, PS2 ports of Deus Ex and Half-Life don't count.

Eh, I played Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, and Golden Axe Warrior. That grass is pretty nice, but it ain't greener.

How did you guys vote en masse for stuff like Phantasy Star II but leave off Rez & Shenmue 2? Weak.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Eh, I played Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, and Golden Axe Warrior. That grass is pretty nice, but it ain't greener.

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Neutopia!

Rez is a nice experience, but it's a pretty shit game.

Only three people voted for Phantasy Star II. They just ranked it high. I kind of wish I ranked Wonder Boy III higher on my list; it had more votes than PSII and probably narrowly missed the top 20.

I must have missed the new thread, because Phantasy Star IV is still a better game than II so that blows my mind.

True. Phantasy Star 1's also better than 2.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Only three people voted for Phantasy Star II. They just ranked it high.

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This is what makes this list so strange. Not a single game was named by even a quarter of the voters.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

How did you guys vote en masse for stuff like Phantasy Star II but leave off Rez & Shenmue 2? Weak.

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Shenmue 2 is an infinitely better game but I had to pick the first because I loved the environments so much. Funny Bear Burger! Their pickles are homemade!

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Only three people voted for Phantasy Star II. They just ranked it high.

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This is my one issue with the list. If we're basing this on what 60 something people voted, and a game makes the top 20 when only 3 people voted for it, then I think the system is a bit broken. I personally think the whole if is number 1 it gets 10 points number 2 gets 9 points etc etc, makes for a broken system. Personally I'd like to see the outcome from giving every game 1 point. Because personally I think if say there was a game that received 28 number 10 votes, that should be up there instead of PSII. Doing it with these points system pretty much rigs the system so that only peoples top 3 - 5 really have any chance in showing up on the final list and you might as well have just asked people for their top 3 - 5.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Rez is a nice experience, but it's a pretty shit game.

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Yo if I see you onna street I'ma cut you, foo'.

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

Because personally I think if say there was a game that received 28 number 10 votes, that should be up there instead of PSII.

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No game got more than 15 votes, so the volume of support for any game is flawed no matter how it is tallied. However, I did build the raw vote count into the spreadsheet, so here it is:

1. Super Metroid (15)
2. Super Mario Bros. 3 (11)
3. Street Fighter II (10)
4. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (10)
5. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (9)
6. Deus Ex (7)
7. Half-Life (7)
8. Street Fighter III (7)
9. Shadow of the Colossus (7)
10. Jet Grind Radio (7)
11. Super Mario Bros. (6)
12. Mega Man 2 (6)
13. Planescape: Torment (6)
14. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (6)
15. Metal Gear Solid (6)
16. Final Fantasy IV (6)
17. Crazy Taxi (6)
18. Super Castlevania IV (5)
19. X-Com: UFO Defense (5)
20. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (5)
21. Halo (5)

The list is not that different but better with the weighting. Replacing MvC2 and Halo with Daytona and PSII is a feature.

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

Doing it with these points system pretty much rigs the system so that only peoples top 3 - 5 really have any chance in showing up on the final list and you might as well have just asked people for their top 3 - 5.

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This is also completely wrong. SotN did not get a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place vote, but is way up the list. Shadow of the Colossus and Final Fantasy IV also didn't get anything above 4th. Super Mario Bros. 3 did not get a 1st or 2nd place vote but finished second both in votes and weighting.

This is a good list. Good work Yoshi.

ha ha, TNL like Nitendo games

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Somehow I missed this before -

Dude, after all the shit you have given people for liking the SNES more than the Genesis or missing out on lesser known games, not having played it is just wrong.

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I don't think I've ever read Neo writing the word "dude" if it weren't in a game title. +1

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Originally Posted by Changeling

I STILL haven't played the whole way through Super Metroid either. I've played through almost all of the other games in the series, but never finished that one. I really should do that.

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You really should.

Nice work Yoshi. Very interesting. Decent list. Taxi and Mario 1 are very iffy though. Plus no online multiplayer games outside of Halflife. I thought there would be more.

To miss out on Super Metroid, especially when it first came out, is a damn shame. While its still impressive, it wont be the same playing it for the first time today.

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Originally Posted by Destro777

Taxi and Mario 1 are very iffy though.

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Those are some of the least iffy. Your face is iffy.

I would have given another vote to TIE Fighter if I'd have remembered to vote on this. That is one fine game.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Replacing MvC2 and Halo with Daytona and PSII is a feature.

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Daytona is highly overrated. It's a good racing game but not even close to the best racing game ever, though it's the only one on the list. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is at least a trillion times better a pick.

Interesting list. I'm not going to call it "good" or "terrible" because I don't think a list should match my personal views--it's a cross-section of TNL, and that's what makes it interesting.

Calculating the standings is always gonna be a difficult, arbitrary process of what counts for what points, but this looks reasonable considering the votes. I'd be interested in seeing the results based on different calculation methods. Since everyone's submitting only their favorite 10, maybe take the point totals and multiply by or add the number of nominations for that game--it'd reduce the weight of the individual list ranking.

Isn't it funny that as much as TNL will pick apart a mainstream publications Top games list, this doesn't really look all that different with a few exceptions.

It has Planescape, that makes it significantly better.

Also Yoshi and I are right, all of you fuckers who said Super Castlevania IV and not Rondo are idiots.

Rondo is overrated and fetishized to the point that it makes me not want to vote for it on principle.

I still think it's better than CV4 though! And CV4 is pretty good!

It's by far the best of the classic style Castlevania games.

Why do you say that?

Best level design, best bosses, multiple characters to play ass, multiple paths through levels. It has it all, the only negative is that it's easier than Castlevania 3.

Oh and best graphics of all the clasis style games as well.

anime cut scenes, branching paths, CD soundtrack, two playable characters.

All SC4 has over it is the 8-way whip.

Oh yeah, best music as well. Man what a great game.

Those sound like pretty good reasons. I was playing the PSP remake the other day; probably my first old-school Castlevania outing since middle school.

Good list. I like every game on it.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

It's by far the best of the classic style Castlevania games.

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I'm not going to argue this because I somewhat agree, but the lack of difficulty knocks it down a few notches for me. It's the only game in the (classic) series that I finished without dying. Everything else about it is awesome, though. Castlevania III might be up there.

I don't think I voted. :(

Interesting list, though. I don't think I'd have voted for much of anything on there, but then again this isn't a list about individual taste. We can't complain about the results because it's exactly what we told it to be.

James

I'd have liked to see how the Top 50 would have panned out.

Yeah. Any chance of posting the entire list of games, Yoshi?

Interesting list nonetheless. It reminds me a bit of some of the oddness that occasionally crops up in the shmups.com annual top 25 poll, where games like Shikigami no Shiro II end up at a fairly high position because everyone personally ranks them fairly low on their own personal lists, but the wildly varying games in the upper echelons of each individual list mean that none of them end up coming out particularly high overall. I suspect, for instance, that Super Mario Bros. was not ranked very high on any individual list but simply appeared on a lot of them.

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Originally Posted by Melf

anime cut scenes, branching paths, CD soundtrack, two playable characters.

All SC4 has over it is the 8-way whip.

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Frankly I thought the 8-way whip made the game too easy, it's only redeeming quality was swinging. SC4's soundtrack is superb, equaled only by SotN and the graphics are some of the best of the 16 bit era. Plenty of memorable stage themes and a ton of small details for a 8 meg cart. Rondo has the better boss collection but otherwise I'll take SC4.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Isn't it funny that as much as TNL will pick apart a mainstream publications Top games list, this doesn't really look all that different with a few exceptions.

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I vote to permaban the people that caused this.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I'd have liked to see how the Top 50 would have panned out.

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I can post it when I am that bored, but it goes to shit pretty quickly. When the Top 20 only got 5 votes, does the Top 50 really mean anything?

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

How did you guys vote en masse for stuff like Phantasy Star II but leave off Rez & Shenmue 2? Weak
!

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Because REZ is fucking garbage. Never played Shenmue though.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

Best level design, best bosses, multiple characters to play ass, multiple paths through levels. It has it all, the only negative is that it's easier than Castlevania 3.

Oh and best graphics of all the clasis style games as well.

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But SC4 has better play mechanics and MUCH better music. Honestly, the music is SO important in that game. Thats the reason people go back and play it, even if they don't realize it.

That's not even remotely true. Stop being blinded by your nostalgia.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Eh, I played Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, and Golden Axe Warrior. That grass is pretty nice, but it ain't greener.

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I didn't say 16-bit Action RPGs. There's this little thing called Demon's Souls, you know. And the Elder Scrolls series. Those clobber the shit out of Zelda.

The Elder Scrolls games have always sucked ass.

Demon Souls is great though.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

But SC4 has MUCH better music.

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This is so wrong that it's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Those are some of the least iffy. Your face is iffy.

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Since mario 3 is on there, Mario 1 can GTFO. Crazy Taxi is poop - and anyone who thinks it should be on a top anything list other than DC games is poop too. If anything, some outrun should be on there driving game wise.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

That's not even remotely true. Stop being blinded by your nostalgia.

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Music is far more than which ever game has red book. Also, I like for my character not to control like they are walking through 3 ft of shit.

I've always thought Dayton was overrated.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

I've always thought Dayton was overrated.

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It's no Columbus.

Damn it.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

I've always thought Dayton was overrated.

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Most people that say this haven't played DaytonA the way it was meant to be played; sit-down cab and 8 players. This will NEVER get old. I pretty much hate Dave n Busters, but this always makes the trip more bearable ( booze n friends as well )

I really like every game on this list but I've never played PSII. FFIV isn't really phenomenal to me either, those grinding dragon warrior games aren't really all that great in general. Probably the best FF though.

Bushido Blade would be in my top 50.

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Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Bushido Blade would be in my top 50.

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Bushido Blade was so freakin awesome! I'd love to see it re-released with some online integrated.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Bushido Blade was so freakin awesome! I'd love to see it re-released with some online integrated.

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I don't think it'll hold up as a re-release, but I'd love to see the idea redone. A simple fighting game where one hit can kill you, with huge emphasis on defense over offense. It needs to be made well.

None of those were in my top-ten. I guess I'm a misfit.

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Originally Posted by Destro777

Since mario 3 is on there, Mario 1 can GTFO. Crazy Taxi is poop - and anyone who thinks it should be on a top anything list other than DC games is poop too. If anything, some outrun should be on there driving game wise.

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Thank you. Crazy Taxi wouldn't even be in my top 10 DC list. It is a good arcade game at the time, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I don't think it'll hold up as a re-release, but I'd love to see the idea redone. A simple fighting game where one hit can kill you, with huge emphasis on defense over offense. It needs to be made well.

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Light Weight hasn't made a good game since the first BB (no, 2 doesn't count, even if Tony Umeda is the best character in the series) so I imagine it won't be coming from them.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Thank you. Crazy Taxi wouldn't even be in my top 10 DC list. It is a good arcade game at the time, nothing more.

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IBTN. I just don't get how DC Sega has a better reputation here and a lot of places than real ~1987-1997 Sega. I love JGR and Shenmue, but other than those, the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have. How did Panzer Dragoon skip the DC for example? I would say Sega's support of their consoles would go like this:

1. Genesis
2. Master System
3. Saturn
4. Dreamcast

The Dreamcast was a 2K sports and third party fighter/shooter machine until nearly all its games got ported or sequels.

Maybe too many TNLers took the God awful SNES -> PS1 -> DC -> PS2 path, because they were too young to have multiple systems or something.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have.

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Sega's output on the DC was fine. The system just didn't last as long as any of their others, so if you end up comparing ~4 years on the DC to their other consoles you're going to come up short.

Sega has always been terrible when it comes to sequels and keeping old franchises viable as well, so that's not something that's specific to the Dreamcast alone.

This is a great list Yoshi. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

would say Sega's support of their consoles would go like this:

1. Genesis
2. Master System
3. Saturn
4. Dreamcast

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Originally Posted by Sixfortyfive

Sega's output on the DC was fine. The system just didn't last as long as any of their others, so if you end up comparing ~4 years on the DC to their other consoles you're going to come up short.

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I agree with both of these things. The latter explains part of the former. I didn't have issue with Sega's support of the DC before it was officially discontinued. I think Yoshi is probably right about the whole age and owning multiple systems thing factoring in. I imagine most writers in the game industry and message board posters owned a DC but very few owned an SMS or SS even though the market share was low for all of them in NA.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Because REZ is fucking garbage. Never played Shenmue though.

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I don't even know how you morally justify a post like this. You're probably going to hell now.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

IBTN. I just don't get how DC Sega has a better reputation here and a lot of places than real ~1987-1997 Sega. I love JGR and Shenmue, but other than those, the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have.

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This could not be more wrong. Unless we're talking about how much affection you had for the new franchises, in which case it's subjective. But it is absolutely impossible to deny that Sega worked their asses off to make sure the DC had original franchises.

It's also a strange sentiment that you mention new stuff and sequels in the same breath as if they aren't mutually exclusive. Obviously Sega didn't crank out a lot of sequels on DC. In fact, they've never been big on sequels in general compared to other companies. One of the reasons Sega was so great was that they always invested in new IP. Most great SMS games never had sequels on Genesis, and most great Genesis games never had sequels on Saturn.

So back to the original franchise point, we have Skies of Arcadia, Rez, Space Channel 5, JGR, Shenmue, Seaman, Crazy Taxi, Chu Chu Rocket, Samba de Amigo, NFL/NBA/NHL2K, Segagaga, Hundred Swords... It was really an unprecedented amount of energy put into new IPs. I honestly think that's probably part of why they didn't succeed; people don't want new ideas as much as they want familiar names. This even bled over into the first generation of games moved from DC to other consoles, like Monkey Ball, Billy Hatcher, GunValkyrie...

I think I'd take Sega's 1999-early 2002 output over just about any other 3 years from any other developer.

Oh. Another Top 20 of All-Time thread. A Link to The Past, SMB3, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger, blah blah blah; same as every list that gets posted. Oooh, FFIV instead of FFVII! How risky! Who were the Nintendo-weened neophytes who came up with this predictable piece of shit? Gamespot? IGN? Game Inform-WHAAAAAAAA?

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/p...&pictureid=867

So, hey! We have the same boring taste as everyone else! We're not so elite! I guess the reason why the same handful of 8 and 16-bit games perennially crop up on these things isn't because the gaming media is comprised of unoriginal Johnny-come-latelies who can name less pre-NES games than we can name Konami titles whose definitive versions were on the X68000. I guess the reason is because these games are actually really fucking good.

Personally, I'm going to donate my high horse to the folks outside of Planned Parenthood who were doing the Lord's work out there in the cold today -- the Lord's work being screaming at scared-shitless teenage girls and hoisting pictures of dead babies skyward for all of New England to see! They deserve a neat pet.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

This could not be more wrong. Unless we're talking about how much affection you had for the new franchises, in which case it's subjective.

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There is no question that it is subjective.

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So back to the original franchise point, we have Skies of Arcadia, Rez, Space Channel 5, JGR, Shenmue, Seaman, Crazy Taxi, Chu Chu Rocket, Samba de Amigo, NFL/NBA/NHL2K, Segagaga, Hundred Swords... It was really an unprecedented amount of energy put into new IPs. I honestly think that's probably part of why they didn't succeed; people don't want new ideas as much as they want familiar names. This even bled over into the first generation of games moved from DC to other consoles, like Monkey Ball, Billy Hatcher, GunValkyrie...

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See out of everything you mentioned, I care about JGR, Shenmue, and the 2K Sports games. That's not to say the others were bad, but there is no way that list is holding a candle to the Genesis or Saturn IPs:

Sonic, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Virtua Racing, Eternal Champions, Sega Sports, Phantasy Star, Shining, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Vectorman, Ecco, etc.

or

Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Dynamite Deka, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers, Astal, Last Bronx, etc.

And if you want carry over credit, then Shenmue started as a Saturn game, taking away the Dreamcast's best first party series.

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I think I'd take Sega's 1999-early 2002 output over just about any other 3 years from any other developer.

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This would be a tough thing to analyze objectively, but I am tentatively going to say 1987-1990 Konami. Although mid-1990s Capcom was pretty amazing too.

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Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me

So, hey! We have the same boring taste as everyone else! We're not so elite! I guess the reason why the same handful of 8 and 16-bit games perennially crop up on these things isn't because the gaming media is comprised of unoriginal Johnny-come-latelies who can name less pre-NES games than we can name Konami titles whose definitive versions were on the X68000. I guess the reason is because these games are actually really fucking good.

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No, it's just the typical failure of democracy. Too many people who have no business voting get a ballot.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

there is no way that list is holding a candle to

...Eternal Champions,

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

This would be a tough thing to analyze objectively, but I am tentatively going to say 1987-1990 Konami. Although mid-1990s Capcom was pretty amazing too.

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I'll take Origin Systems from 1991 through 1994, thank you.

He named Seaman and fucking Segagaga that never even came out in English. I didn't even come close to that level of padding.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Sonic, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Virtua Racing, Eternal Champions, Sega Sports, Phantasy Star, Shining, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Vectorman, Ecco, etc.

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I don't really see how you can count Phantasy Star among Genesis originals, and even if didn't, we're still talking 1988-1995, here.

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Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Dynamite Deka, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers, Astal, Last Bronx, etc.

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Interesting that you leave NiGHTs off. But I don't think stuff like Astal, Dynamite Deka, or Last Bronx is really going to do much against the DC's best, and HotD, and Daytona had better counterparts on DC (even if none of the Daytona home ports were all that great).

I really loved the DC's originals, personally. The rate at which Sega tosses out franchises is a testament to their creativity.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

He named Seaman and fucking Segagaga that never even came out in English. I didn't even come close to that level of padding.

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Seaman has to be mentioned. It was one of the system's best selling games in Japan, it was kind of a big deal.

Remember I said that post wasn't about my personal taste, I was just trying to say Sega leveraged original IPs a ridiculous amount.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

No, it's just the typical failure of democracy. Too many people who have no business voting get a ballot.

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This wasn't about informed decision-making. This was about listing the games that you like. The result is something that's tough to argue with insofar as arguing about preference is like trying to rape someone through your jeans, and that and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who dislikes more of these games than they like.

Almost none of these were on my list, but, in deliberating on mine for a while, had some kind of internet videogame list waiter approached me and suggested "I'm just going to put you down for a Super Metroid," I wouldn't have argued with him.

Listen, I voted for Actraiser. You assholes fucked this up, not me.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I don't really see how you can count Phantasy Star among Genesis originals, and even if didn't, we're still talking 1988-1995, here.

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Yeah, that was a mental lapse to be sure.

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Interesting that you leave NiGHTs off. But I don't think stuff like Astal, Dynamite Deka, or Last Bronx is really going to do much against the DC's best, and HotD, and Daytona had better counterparts on DC (even if none of the Daytona home ports were all that great).

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I absolutely cannot stand NiGHTS. To be honest, it didn't even come to mind as I was thinking of good Saturn games. It wasn't a conscious exclusion as much as just not even on my quality radar.

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I really loved the DC's originals, personally. The rate at which Sega tosses out franchises is a testament to their creativity.

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It is indeed, but there has to be a balance. You can't tell me there isn't room in Sega's 2010 release list for a new Panzer Dragoon for example. Although, if the new Golden Axe, Shining titles, or that Phantasy Star Online garbage are what would become of them, maybe we are better off.

Seriously, this is a great list. Thanks, Yosh.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It is indeed, but there has to be a balance.

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Commercially speaking, I think you're right, but Sega had a few issues working against them in this regard:

1) Their blockbuster franchises were mostly Genesis era, and it's hard to bring back a series from two generations back. The gameplay of those titles wouldn't be relevant, and they'd be more or less reinvent them anyway.

2) The Genesis wasn't popular in Japan, and the Saturn wasn't popular in the US, so they were severely lacking in games with broad international appeal. Even Sonic was never that big in Japan.

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You can't tell me there isn't room in Sega's 2010 release list for a new Panzer Dragoon for example. Although, if the new Golden Axe, Shining titles, or that Phantasy Star Online garbage are what would become of them, maybe we are better off.

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1) Why the Panzer Dragoon obsession? It's not exactly a franchise that ever moved big numbers, and it's in a borderline dead genre. I'd check out a new one, of course, but if it was my money, I wouldn't invest in the development and expect to see a return.

2) Sega's development issues are so much deeper than that now. I think we'd both agree that in recent years, stuff like Yakuza and Valkyria Chronicles -- new or newish stuff -- are the only real evidence that Sega still has the potential to make great games.

Sonic Team is so horribly mismanaged they just can't get a good game out, half of Smilebit is working on Japanese exclusive sports games, and then we have like a couple other teams that make like one game every two years and still do a good job. Plus the arcade division, which is still good buy less relevant every day.