If it keeps buttplant out, it was worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafter
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If it keeps buttplant out, it was worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafter
I don't think I've ever shopped at the Gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
So eliminating a major funding source (tuition) would help the underfunding? Holy shit. Why didn't the rest of us think of that!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Not unless you're a zombie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
It doesn't, Yoshi. It doesn't. It draws them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Do you remember high school? It was barely useful or educational. To say that high school education is the best anyone deserves is like saying the best health care anyone deserves is some water and a couple band aids.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
And it most certainly is a bad thing to restrict higher education to only those who "deserve" it. You're all assuming that there is some sort of magical test or board of approval that will make sure that only the smartest (people like you) will get in. That does not, nor will it ever happen. Schools and test across the country are not uniformed. Many receive more funding than others. In such a situation it would be a very real scenario for poor minorities to be kept out of good colleges because their they can't score in the top 99% because of their poor high school background and that most certainly would not be due to any fault of their own.
This is only true for degrees that are mostly worthless in the first place. Some if not most of the best paying jobs require degrees that can not simple be paid for. lIf you have such a degree either it was worthless from the start (and that is why it was so easy to get) or your school short changed you by not making the program challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I really can't believe I'm reading this shit from a bunch of supposed liberals. Many of you have replaced financial superiority with "intelligence" superiority. Your opinions hinge on the assumption that you are the best and if the system changed, you'd still have gotten the education you got. That you would have naturally scored in the top 99% and gotten your free education.
How can you people ignore simple obvious problems with a system like this? It would actually hurt people from poor communities because they often receive the worst education prior to college. Many colleges around the country would close because each state would refuse to fund all of them. There would be less money for education than there is now, forcing possible enrollment to be limited and go down. Certain jobs would be limited to people that are good at school and not necessarily good at the job. There are plenty of people that can't take standardized test that are great at their job. You can't teach a lot of what doctors do in a college class room. Best does not always if rarely equals best GPA. But that is the nation that you want to build. A country full of boring assholes that spent their teen years at cram schools so they could get into a good school and get the education they wanted.
I'm from a poor neighborhood and I made it. Education is only useful if you actually give a fuck about it.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
I took Calculus, Physics, Marine Biology, etc. in high school. Most people don't get that in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Butt, it's absolutely trivial to normalize for test scores and the like in poor neighborhoods. First year stats student trivial. Even the worst schools have good students and colleges do look for them.
Do you realize how hard it is to get into medical school?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Yes, when it comes to medical school, best = best GPA and best MCAT. Do you want some 2.2 GPA pothead operating on you cause his daddy is rich?
I'm saying that YOU and anyone like you, has the right to be able to go back to college at any point in your life, assuming you have the money or want to take out a loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Many people here are saying that you don't. That you should fuck off and go flip burgers. BUT, college should be free for anyone that was study McNerd Pants and never made an academic mistake iin his life.
Most free colleges in other countries require really high GPAs and test scores. Because you've dropped out a couple times before, and most likely have a couple bad grades from doing so, you'd never be accepted into another college, IF they became free.
I'm essentially arguing for your right to do whatever you damn well please, when you want to do it. They are arguing for a magical university system that is both free and only lets in magical snow flakes with crazy nerd GPAs.
That's not what they are saying at all. But then again, my reading comprehension is pretty low since I bought my degree and didn't earn it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I'm talking about the 4 year degree, prior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I'm not really worried about there ever being a 2.2 GPA pothead without the skills working on me. Unlike Razor and bbobb's degrees, which apparently aren't challenging, medical school is. You can't just breeze through it or keep paying money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
You actually have to keep trying and going to class. And at the end of the day I don't care if the doctor had a 3.00 or 3.95. There is a point where a difference like that is something simple like one has a better memory or is just better at taking test at 8 am. I'm sure their skill in the real world is comparable, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten through medical school and their internship
.
They have a reading degree in college? Many maybe I need to look into that. Maybe I could get some easy As to boost my GPA.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
And that is exactly what they are saying. They are saying that people like Josh or Pacrappa should not be allowed into college. Because in a free school system, only people that have been playing the academic game for a while would get the scores required to get in. Intelligent but unconventional people would be barred.
Do you understand not everyone will grasp higher concepts? Not everyone is a baby Greenspan, Bill Gates, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Jonas Salk, etc etc. You shouldn't be ashamed of it, either.
You only speak English and Mandarin. Take up cheekish, and everything will become clearly ass backwardsQuote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
Reading degrees are awesome. You should look into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
This is pure bullshit, but I didn't realize that until I left school. The difference between a "good GPA" and a "great GPA" is more often than not, pure fucking hard work. Your "good memory" comes from studying the concepts until you can't stand it anymore. You're "better at taking tests at 8 am" because you sleep instead of cramming until 5 am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Instead of going to parties, you work. Instead of going to the bar, you work. Instead of slacking off that one night because you're "tired", you drink a cup of coffee and hit the books.
I'm not saying you NEED to do this to be successful, but there are a lot of people who do it, and from calling these people "mcNerd pants" with a "nerd GPA" it sounds like you are just jealous.
I know a bunch of people who went to very prestigious medical and law schools, and all they did was study nonstop for four years. They are rewarded for their success by being able to go to these schools and I am sure they will be excellent at what they do and be very well paid, because they paid their dues.
This is America, asshole. We all deserve to be millionaires.
That is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
You are forgetting the admittance exam that I have mentioned like, what, five times now?
It would not be like it is now where either 1) the SAT/ACT requirements are set very low and 2) they normalize the test scores of poor neighborhoods. You are assuming that the admittance system would stay the same way it is now. It would not.
Everyone would be made to take admittance test and the best would get in. People from poor areas would be at a disadvantage because of their poor previous education. Do you really think they would take the time curve up the test scores of people from bad areas? And if so, would it even be enough?
While I agree with you in principle, I have zero respect for the "book smart" of the world who have to study 24/7 to memorize formulas and the like instead of truly grasping, understanding, and applying them. The members of the former group are absolutely worthless in the real world except in positions that are purely process driven, because real world problems aren't scheduled ahead of time, so they can't study up to be ready. I'd much rather work with a guy who only uses 80% of his 500 horsepower than a guy who uses 100% of his 300 horsepower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
A lot of these people could've easily gotten 3.0-3.3 just by showing up. It takes a lot of work to get up to the 3.6+ area, especially in pre-med or something like that. It doesn't matter how smart you are. There are a lot of people who graduate pre-med with very high GPAs and not all of them are Doogie Howser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
There go the tags.
I agree. There is a certain point where nearly everyone has to study, which hopefully weeds out the book smart crew, as there just aren't enough hours in the day for them to keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
actually, no, I am one of the people you just described. And I've seen plenty of situations where people are in the same study groups, and put forth the same amount of work and one will get a B and the other an A. And I've seen situations were people would just dick off and get A's while the people who studied all week got Bs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I've seen it happen enough that I don't really equate grades with knowledge anymore. I work hard and I get maybe an A or a B. Sometimes I might get a C because the teacher felt like being a dick and counting off for me leaving my units off or something else trivial that doesn't have much to do with understanding the material itself. Or maybe they had to go on a trip and decided to just give another teacher's test. LOL everyone will fail it, but whatever, teacher will just rank the grades at the end.
And not everyone can be that guy all the time. I have a couple doctors in my family. One of which had to repeat a year of medical school because of losing his father. But hey, Calliander thinks that guy should be flipping burgers. To bad for him that "Life happened" and his grades dropped. Sucks to be him. He should have sucked it up I guess. Pulled his ass up by the boot straps.
And I know that you personally know this. Sometimes shit happens. There is no difference between bad things happening or making bad choices and you losing your job or house and bad things happening and your grades suffering for it. Bad shit happens and your life reflects it. Be it health care, money, or self improvement.
Yeah, and they probably paid to get in there. I wonder if they would have all gotten in if admissions were based purely on being the best of the best. Were all of them really able to score better than everyone else there? I realize they probably already had to do some of that to get in. But would they be able to do it a second time if the requirements were even stricter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I'm not sure I follow. How are you defining book smart, if it isn't a person that has to study?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
If you had to study at all in high school or very much in most undergrad majors, you're book smart at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
A lot of pre-med is a joke anyway. Like Physics without calc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Yea, the teachers are out to get you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You really have no idea how admissions work do you? But yea a few of them actually did get free rides because of their grades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Some people do whatever it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
There are people who are both book smart and hardworking, down to earth people who are pleasant to be around--and, most importantly, who can work efficiently and well with others. I've learned these are people who vacillate equally between their right and left brains--those open-minded to various ways of thinking.
I worked my ass off in school, but I was addicted to the enrichment aspect of the process; I was genuinely interested in most of the classes I took. I managed a summa cum laude in undergrad and earned my Ph.D. at a top-tier institution just before I turned 24. I worked two jobs to pay my tuition in undergrad and, thank God, won fellowships for the rest of process. Did it put me ahead? Yes, but not by much, and strangely it left me embittered. Why? Because I saw people who demonstrably did not belong in a university setting get their degrees because their daddies were Daddy Warbucks McCashmen.
The fact is, most traditional college students--even those in non-vocational fields, see the university as a place to hang out, get drunk, and party. Once they have that 2.5 GPA degree in hand, then they can move on and "make money." Some of these people--and this is not a lie--can't write on a seventh grade level. But the university woos them to stay because they (the dumbass students/parents) hemorrhage money. The money, in turn, is used for superficial things to attract the lowest-common-denominator, not to improve the educational process.
In other words, they are followers who need processes to follow. You are just kinder in your wording than I am/was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafter
This is a whole different animal. Needing to study and wanting to get everything out of a course you can are pretty far apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafter
I can't agree with undergrad. I've had more than a couple teachers who just skim the high lights in class. I've had a handful that you will still fail the test even if you ace the homework and labs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
One microprocessor teacher comes to mind. He was really bad about putting coding problems that required knolwedge of code that was either A) in the book ONE time or in the 700 page data sheet for the processor. You'd never saw it just attending class and doing the class work. He'd have about three of those, in the middle of of a few 20 point coding problems. So if you didn't read the book, that would be two letter grades, right out the window.
I didn't say you shouldn't read the book. How the fuck would a language major do anything without reading? Reading the material once and cramming like an idiot are also two different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Yes, I'm aware that grade point average, MCAT scores, recommendations, extracurricular activities, your state of residence, and other achievements play a significant role in medical school admissions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Looking back, it was pretty clever of you to try to shift the focus of the discussion from general college education to medicine. That is really what this country needs, a system where all degrees are as stringent as becoming a doctor.
Sometimes you just have to cram. If the test requires exact knowledge of something, just understanding how things work is not enough. I had trouble with accounting for that reason. I understood all of it but I could not remember what everything was called and a lot of the test was fill in the blank. Had I just been given balance sheets and charts, I could have aced it without studying. Instead, I would be given blank paper and asked to do everything from scratch. I had more trouble remember all that tedious little crap labels and names for things in accounting than I had with my fundamentals of energy systems class where I had to understand a dozen different motors and their mechanics and calculating power distribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You mentioned doctors, dipshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
and as I said before, I was talking about pre-med.
Cheeks, how much free time do you actually have?
I could join up with snooty high IQ societies you've never even heard of, but I don't feel like paying for the tests. I have an IQ higher than pretty much anyone you'll meet in your entire life. Mensa is a bunch of noobs. All my standardized test scores are fucking hilariously high. You're right, I could go to back to college if I wanted to. [/dick waving]Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Thing is I don't want to. I currently have other things more important to me than studying for a piece of paper. like waving my dick around on the internet
Depends on the semester and the classes. I enrolled in two business classes this semester, expecting design to be really hard. But my group managed our time wisely, so I ended up with more free time than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Some semesters are pretty bad. About two semesters ago I had Circuits 3, Signals and systems and microprocessors. I was getting 4 hours of sleep on average. Every third day I would get 7.
Yeah. I remember that you mentioned that. And I know that right now you don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
A free state college system would look down on you for feeling that way now. Which is just shit. Not everyone fits into that nice little box.
Dude, I dropped out of high school freshman year. I stopped paying any attention in class around 5th grade. I'm also way smart. Coincidence? No, I learned on my own. Higher education means nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I do believe you are actually an idiot though.
Feel free to continue thinking that.
Alright.
Sounds good.
I know the address of the Korean joint that is open until 4am. Can't learn that shit in college, faggots.
Yeah, and you're the kind of guy I'm fighting for.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
I have no doubt that you are smart despite any past academic record. Who knows, maybe one day you will want to be something that you have to go to college for. A free college system would bar you for dropping out your freshmen year and have bad grades starting in the fifth grade.
The way it is now, you would take the SAT/ACT depending on your region and the GED. Most state colleges have low SAT/ACT requirements and you will most likely make at least 35% higher than you need to get in. You'd be admitted and take out a loan or pay with your savings.
A free college system would look down on you for dropping out and your bad grades before dropping out. You'd have to work hard to get into a community college, and while there, do your best to make good grades. Then you would have to take a special admissions test to whatever college you want to go to. You'd probably have to study for it for months in advance because it will have questions that you didn't deal with while being in the real world (or maybe even in your community college classes). And depending on how much funding the school system gets, you may have to score high, or retarded high on the admissions test to get in.
And seriously, fuck all that. There is no reason for a grown adult to go through that much trouble just because they decided to get a philosophy degree later in life.
People who think otherwise are egotistical wankers that need to dry their vagina out over their student loan debt.
I would argue I'm saying the exact opposite of elitist. People who work hard in their studies are somehow looking down on you? What kind of confidence issues do you have? Education IS available to everyone in your country. If they genuinely earned it they get in to a great school. That takes hard work and focus at a young age. If they fucked around in high school it's going to take more money and time to climb that ladder because they missed the boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I am a fairly smart person when it comes to business. Finding it and exploiting consumer and business trends. So I went in to school for a trade (design is a trade let's not get art faggy up in here).
Diffusionx went for math and something boring. He probably makes more than me out of school because he did the hard work. So I have to work longer hours to get ahead. This is not me working harder or anything. I just knew my strength was to go independent. Diffusionx knew his was chemistry or math (whatever he does).
Is that elitist? No. It was just two routes to the same end. We both are doing what we set out and worked for.
Nobody is entitled to anything in this world except what they make of it. The only exception I believe is comfort of living via healthcare. Because a lot are disease are the byproduct of genetic roulette. I do agree with yoshi that people who are fat and have fatty diseases should at least have to mitigate SOME of the cost. But that's another thread.
Cheeks: do you think everyone should get a chance to play in the NFL? If you can't compete at that level why would you expect to get to? You can still play football. There just isn't enough room for everyone.
Would it be nice for all avenues of education to be open to everyone if we could somehow accommodate all of those people? Yes. But that is a completely surreal expectation. Even in France where education is relatively free there is top seeded students who get the attention. Genius intellect with hard work ethic is a limited resource. Mankind is better off fostering those minds with top care. I am fine with not being a genius because I live in a country where I can open doors to me if I work hard.
I think Cheeks is just being contrary Mary for the sake of having a discussion.
To me I think he genuinely doesn't grasp the concept. (apropos given the subject of some people being unable to think on a higher level). I also think he's a bit lazy himself. He mentioned his teacher penalizing him for leaving shit out on his workbench while building a project. The teacher obviously told everyone to put shit away yet he didn't. Forgetting is only an excuse once. And in a shop scenario keeping things clean is taught for job site safety and efficiency. From autoworkers to chefs. They're all taught to keep a lid on the mess.
I'm sure that was in one of the Asian American Studies textbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I never took Asian American Studies.
I can't fucking stand a dirty line. In the middle of a big bump is one thing, but as soon as there's a break in the action you'd better be wiping shit down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
That's two different things. A "dumb" person who wants to go to college should have every right to. Being lazy has nothing to do with being dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
And a lot of the standards for getting into college are pure bullshit. I came to PR and knew no Spanish whatsoever. I scraped through high school (I suck at math, and in Spanish? Forget it) with a 2.38 average. I got into a private college (UPR basically told me I wasn't college material, and that I should look into a vocational school instead), while a ton of my friends got into UPR with their 3.50 GPAs. Four years later, I graduated with a B average while most of my UPR friends had dropped out. I finished my MA with a 3.50 and am now a doctoral candidate.
Hooray for dumb people!
I could not disagree more. The sooner we separate these people and get them into vocational programs, the sooner our unemployment rate goes down. We don't need any more underwater basket weaving majors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I don't consider pursuing higher learning to be on par with "a sport." It is a far more personal thing. It shouldn't be looked as a competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
:wtf: Everything is a competition. Everything.
A lot of people sucking up scarce college resources really should be in vocational school... And there's nothing wrong with that. You can carve out a good life and not have 20 grand in debt while every employer laughs at your horse crap major. But, for some reason, people think their dreams pay the bills and Gpa does not matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I probably grasp the concept better than most here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Most people here have the opinion that they have because they feel that such a system would have benefited them while they were in school and now that they are out of school. They picture a magical ideal where they would have gotten free school and competition for their career would be eliminated.
I realize that it is anecdotal to some degree, but I actually know people who come from countries with fully free colleges. I've talked to at least 30 different people about it. All really smart people. The US sponges them up because by US standards, they are amazing students. But they can not get into a college in their own home countries, or can not get into the programs that they want into because of the really high standards.
Frankly, I would take the word of a very intelligent PhD student over some bachelor of arts kids who wish they didn't have to pay back their students loans, or compete with dumb asses for jobs.
I guess that makes me stupid. But whatever. I got labeled that here a long time ago.
I guess we are both in that lazy boat, because you're too lazy to remember facts. I don't believe that scenario ever happened. But you're free to do a search and quote it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
But if you are trying say that I am defending my own interest, you are probably right. I am in college to fucking learn. Not compete with other people. I enrolled, I paid my fucking money, lets do some learn'n. Others are defending their interest in that they want less competition in the work force, or they want out of debt. I want an environment focused on individual achievement and learning. Not an academic rat race. There is enough of that after you graduate.
only if you're an assholeQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
LOL nice projecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Any type of "good job" that gets good money will have lots of competition, because people will rise up to the challenge. That's the nature of the beast. I won't get into the details of my job, but needless to say, if I didn't rise up, somebody else would.
No, Yoshi is spot on.
If learning is all that is important, then why is a university education necessary? Community college has a lot of the same information, and usually only costs a fraction of going to a big school.
How much of this is the result of ego? Why not go to a different college?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I don't think I live in the same world that most of you live in. I was unaware that there were state colleges with so much money thrown at them by dumb asses, that they fill up within days and there is no room for genuinely good students.
This thread is the first I've heard of this phenomenon. Seriously, I've never met a sad American that was distraught because he couldn't get into the college he wanted because it was filled with rich stupid people.
Community College really has nothing to do with anything in this argument. They get a lot of state funding already. If all state colleges were to go that rout, many would probably close or gain stricter enrollment requirements too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tones
There is really only so much money to go around.
Personally I don't think there anything wrong with CC. I went to one for my first two years of school because the price was 1/4 of uni.
But to think that is where all the "dumb" people would go is naive. All the funding would be coming out the same bucket at that point.
I had two friends in high school who both applied to Duke. The one with worse grades and worse test scores got in, solely because he was Middle Eastern. The white Jew didn't, because religion didn't count as a minority. Now neither of them were anything resembling stupid, and the white guy ended up at Vandy, but it's still a clear example that the best and brightest don't get the spots.
Community college is virtually worthless if you go to a real school.
I went for two quarters when I took some time off (to live at home) and it was ridiculous how effortless it was. And it was a 'good' one too.
It has its pluses, but "being kind of like a university" is not one of them. Because it isn't.
That is not projecting. That is arguments others are making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
They do not like debt due to college tuition and want that to go away.
They think the people in college now are stupid and devalue their achievements.
They do not like competing with these stupid people in the work force.
Many think that education is only for those that can score high.
And your post about "good job" is irrelevant. You should not seek higher education for purely monetary reasons. It should not be treated as an extension of working. If you believe it should, maybe you should have went to vocational school.
You're bigotry over affirmative action has little to do with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
The middle eastern friend didn't get in because he was a stupid rich guy.
Huh? Lots of people go to school for just that. To make more money. To retire early. etc etc
Unless this is a semantics thing, where I would just say that no one does anything for purely monetary reasons. The money gives them the ability to do other things, whether it's to go on vacations, buy expensive things, have a better life after 50-55 etc
How the hell are you supposed to pay those fat ass student loan bills you have no problem with if you don't have a good job?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Learning for learning's sake is great, I love doing it, but there comes a time when food has to be put on the table. You're still in school, correct? You'll see soon enough.
That is all fine and good but that still doesn't mean that college should be treated as a competition just because you compete for jobs when you graduate.
How can you say this, when the best students get the best jobs? There's a direct correlation here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
If this is your perspective, then at what point is the playing field equal? At what point do people prepare for the competition? If it isn't college, then were?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
1. My bigotry over typing English trumps most others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
2. Affirmative action is discrimination. Disliking it could not be any further from bigotry.
When there are limited resources, how the fuck do you decide who gets them if there is no competition? A fucking lottery? That's a good way to take our society further down the shit hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
It is only discrimination to those that have their own heads so far up their own ass that they do not realize that some people have been set back by the actions of our ancestors and our government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
We as a culture, as a nation, and a country full of people, have destroyed people's lives. Not the lives of people that live in far away places. But the lives of people that live among us.
Affirmative action is admitting this has happened and saying "you know what, I'm sorry that your grandpa got dicked over. Lets make one or two things easier for you so maybe things will even out a little."
BTW, get over it. If you can't get a good job because poor black guys are getting everything you apply for, maybe you need to go back to school.
That all sounded great thirty years ago. Exactly how long to we have to pretend that two wrongs make a right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
It's never going to affect me personally, but that doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.
Where? What state is turning away good students because resources are so limited?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You know, buttplant, you're 100% right. These schools have admissions processes because they enjoy setting money on fire and just want to give people jobs going through applications. Clearly it's unnecessary, as the sugar plum fountain guarantees that we will always have enough seats in every class at every school for every dumb ass piece of shit who might stumble into one.
probably when there is enough outrage of it being around that someone gets elected on an anti-affirmative action ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
As it stands, I still see a lot of poor black people living in shit.
Oh, right, that is because they are lazy.
You guys are really great. Everyone that isn't you is "stupid and lazy" and they can fuck right off.
I love when Buttplant goes apeshit
So race determines class? Bull-fucking-shit. How many generations do we have to act like morons before the playing field is level and we start to make people take responsibility for themselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I think I've already covered pretty good examples on how the admissions of US state colleges are different from free colleges in other countries. There is a difference between the current admission requirements that we have now and the admission requirements of free colleges where only A students are allowed in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
What does that have to do with resources being limited, which they are at every learning institution on the planet?
If nothing else, anyone who reads this thread won't need chemistry class to tell them that iron is pretty fucking dense.
you need to travel more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Ah, yes, like most college kids that don't know shit about shit, you are a man of the world.
Depends on the school? UCs are pretty fucking tough to get into - you have to be in the top 1/8th of California HS students. And even most of those kids don't end up at the top ones (Berkeley & LA). Most kids at UCLA have lots of AP classes, lots of honor classes, very high GPAs, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
ideally in a pay for system, you pay for your resources, and the college uses your money to make up for the resources that they are lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
And I still haven't heard of an example school where students are being turned away because rich stupid people are taking up all the resources.
Where is this fabled drunken Unicorn of college?
You keep saying "limited resources, limited resources." Well, where the fuck are these schools?
Probably not in Mississippi
There is a lot of competition to get into colleges for one of the most popular states in the country? I'm shocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Why not go out of state?
But you are admitting that those resources are being taken up by very high grade students right? Are the other 7/8s being taken up by rich douche bags like so many argued early on in this thread? And since it is so hard to get into those school, even with excellent marks, why are you advocating such a system? If those schools became free, they would let in even fewer students. Why advocate that?
If a college let you in, maybe you are right that we have plenty of room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I make mistakes sometimes, but hey, at least I don't hate minorities.
Minorities are people; therefore I hate a lot of them. Caucasians are people too, so I also hate a lot of them. Most people are worthless, regardless of race.
Speaking from experience, I think a school being filled with the best students is a good thing, for purposes of atmosphere, competitiveness, drive, etc. I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for that experience, being surrounded by people that were quite frankly much smarter than I, had it not been for my time at that particular university.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Let me rephrase that. By "dumb" I mean those people who don't necessarily have an A average (hence my anecdote), They should have the right to apply for college, but getting in and finishing are something else entirely. If they are applied, then they should be allowed the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Basically, the point I was making is that dumb and lazy aren't necessarily the same thing.
This is where you are 100% vehemently wrong. It is a competition thing, which is why I dumbed down the analogy with sports. It works the same way. There are only so many seats available to truly high-end gifted people to do their thing (aka the NFL). Those seats, like it or not, are properly reserved for people who are smart enough to know what they're doing. Education is prep for work. Real-world application. Do you really think just anyone can be a surgeon? Or working on the hadron collider? Or should be? The answer is no. They shouldn't be. You have to be able to do the work in order to have a spot there. You have all the opportunity you need to pursue this shit as you're growing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
And you can go back and fulfill your dream if you really want to and have the resources. There are PLENTY of people in this world who already get by on being able to pay their way. So if people want to pay 1 million dollars to get in to Harvard and bypass the process the option is already open to them. How does this help your "elitist" view of the whole process, anyway? People with money get education while the rest of us get the scraps? No.
This is a dumb discussion. You don't have a pot to piss in. Whether you know it or not is the only thing up for debate.
Very few people ever get a full no-questions-asked tuition. Even the study nerds you speak of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You are in school not to compete directly with other student, but to be competitive when you enter the job force in your chosen profession of interest. You do this through applying yourself and standing out with good marks (or ingenuity, but again most people who have that don't even go to school).
Most schools and teachers are there to help you if you get stuck and aren't wasting their time. But because you measure your success (with grades) there will always be a competition between you and your class mates at the end of your tenure. Because when someone looks and see's you're a 66% and your friend is an 84% they will choose him. You are not just learning for the sake of learning. Unless of course you have an infinite amount of money to burn.Quote:
I want an environment focused on individual achievement and learning. Not an academic rat race. There is enough of that after you graduate.
Like it or not this is the world we live in. And it's not going to change. So you need either adapt to it and learn or stew all of your life being cynical about things. Your choice.
Jonas worked in a kitchen for several years. Most of my friends are blue collar guys (can't stand a lot of white collar bureaucrats) and their shit is the same. The good people follow protocol and get the job done well. The guys who don't bitch about it "What does it have to do with my job!" and don't do their job well. It shows you can manage yourself without falling off the rails.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
Someone pay for me to go back to school pls. This job search thing isn't working out too well.
HEY CHEEKS. YOU TROLLIN, BRAH?
Because if so, you win the internet. If not you're just flat out straight up wrong.