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you're a dickQuote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Well, let them have their chance to try. Let them be admitted and enroll. If they can't hack it, they will fail out, give up, switch majors, something. You can't throw money at hard majors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
It shouldn't be up to you if they get a chance to try.
lol, sure thing. Canadian high school must be pretty awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
about what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I doubt many even know what I'm saying.
What was your major?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Well, he's right about one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
The sad thing is that he is right about free schooling in Europe being bad, but his arguments to support that opinion all go to shit quickly.
The problem with your line of thinking, and why your argument is so head-in-the-clouds idiotic is because there are only a limited number of seats in a classroom. So not everybody can actually take the curriculum needed. Every year a new batch of kids come knocking at the door, too. This is why not everybody can have a chance. Depending on your desired course there are viable alternatives in the form of distance education online and less desirable schools (which, previously mentioned, already give you the same basic skill set anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
The only criteria that schools have in order to determine who gets in is by looking at their past history of effort and success. Everything in life is an investment, and their more likely to see a return on investment from a successful student who goes on to graduate and lands a half decent job than someone who enters the course and slums it along. It isn't a competition because someone thought that would be swell. It's a competition because only a certain number of slots can be available. Why this somehow means everyone in the world is being a dick to you is such a bizarre response.
Canadian high school is much more based on projects than testing compared to American schools (although we do take exams at the end of the year, and periodical testing throughout the semester). There are "spot" tests and things of this nature, but emphasis isn't place on them very much. More emphasis is placed on classroom work and being able to understand the material (such as you being able to respond properly to a question when the teacher throws one at you on the fly during a lecture).Quote:
lol, sure thing. Canadian high school must be pretty awesome.
I just don't like the idea of fewer Americans being able to get into college. I don't give a shit if more people in school makes Razor's Journalism degree mean less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
And a free college system that is paid for by the government would mean fewer people in college. There would be less money going in, which equals fewer resources. Fewer resources either means shittier education or fewer people will get education.
And I don't want either.
The problem in this thread when a lot of people wanted to argue with me about it being awesome possum to raise the requirements to be educated. Some think that is swell and great. I don't.
I want the most people possible to be able to seek higher education. I want the most educated America that I can get.
Everyone insist I'm wrong for wanting that, but whatever. Half of you prove KRUGER/DUNNING right on a daily basis.
I don't live in that world. My college increases its enrollment by 3000 students every year. They just add more classes and get more grad students to teach them. If they don't have enough seats, they change the time or use a different building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
I guess what you are saying is true for public high schools. But my college just expands to deal with the growing need. Maybe expansion is a problem for older bigger schools that are in the middle of cities, but it isn't really a problem here. Our college administration would like nothing more than to expand indefinitely.
What you are saying is most diffidently true for a free college system. And that is why I don't like it. The argument arises from most of you insisting that all paid for colleges are the same. Which is not the case. A lot of colleges can expand, want to expand, and know how to expand. They have not hit their "only a limited number of seats" yet.
EDIT: and even acknowledging that some of America's best colleges already have a limited amount of seats, changes nothing about my opinion. If they lost a money source, resources would go down, and they would probably adopt even stricter admissions standards. It would go from 10k students to 6 or 7 k, hypothetically.
I won't support fewer Americans receiving education if they want it.
I guarantee you that 3000 figure is 100% horseshit. No school can accommodate a 3000 surplus of students YEAR OVER YEAR. But even if they could, magically, the problem still remains about only a certain number of seats being available to students in select courses. If your town did get a huge boom in its economy in the form of a population surplus. For every 3000 students that apply there could be 5000 that can't get in. The problem persists regardless of number. The scale is the only thing that increases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You're clearly not listening to anything anybody is saying.
No one here is denying Americans anything they want. They are telling them in order to get it they have to work hard. That is the backbone of American culture. I am Canadian and I seem to know more about this than you do.Quote:
I won't support fewer Americans receiving education if they want it.
They keep bragging about it. And it was in the paper. I guess they could be lying. I guess I should take a head count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
How do you know this? You keep saying it. Is this one of those "common knowledge" things? People "just" know this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Do you actually have anything backing up this belief?
You keep stating it as a fact, but no one has backed it up.
And as i said in my last post. It is irrelevant. Some or all colleges being selective today does not make it ok to make them more selective tomorrow.
I do not support making it harder for people to get into college. Agreeing on how hard that process is right now, will not change my fundamental belief that it should be made as easy as possible to get into an institution that provides education and improvement.
The argument that "it is already hard, so it is ok to make it harder" doesn't hold any water with me.
Well, I think that process is hard enough as it is. Some feel otherwise. Their feelings won't change mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
It's pretty easy. People in my high school who passed with a D average were still able to attend college.
Well, that is pretty awesome. Hopefully they will come into their own when they finally get to study what they want.
Otherwise, I hope they enjoy it when they get kicked out of school for their GPA dropping below a 2.0.
Hopeless. You're so ignorant to the reality of how and why things work that no amount of reason will break through.
It's actually pretty amazing how hard-heading one person can be. Now think of an entire voting bloc exactly like this.
Arguing with IP is worthless. No matter how wrong he is, he will never ever listen to what everyone else has to say.
I think it's more of this:Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
College is overrated.
When you bring reason to the table, I will be the first to listen to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
You've yet to do that. You bitter know-it-all fool.
You've offered up nothing but rationalized exaggerated stories of hard-knocks and elitism.
Example: I graduated high school with a 1.973 average and got into college with no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
awesome.
as it should be
Who says it isn't?
the assholes arguing with me in this thread.
Nobody is saying that or has ever said that in this thread.
Quote:
Hopeless. You're so ignorant to the reality of how and why things work that no amount of reason will break through.
Oh, I pretty much described Josh and Icarus to the letter and said how free college would increase their chances of not being let in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
I think the exact words of some here was "good, they don't need to be in college. They should be flipping burgers."
What we're saying is not everyone is cut out for college. It's like saying I should have a shot in the NBA when I have no business throwing the ball around.
I already tried the sports analogy to help him out. He couldn't get past the sports, taking the statement exactly at face value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
This is true. And the piece of paper at the end is especially overrated, but those who overrate it also make hiring and salary decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
LAWL at it's not a competition. Motherfucker this is America. I've seen people in fights in order to get ahead of a grocery checkout line. Even socialist countries have competition. It's just a better playing field.
Nigga you trollin'.
Well, you better improve your writing then. Otherwise, you're probably SOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
So what. That isn't a justification to make it harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
"shit is already kind of hard, so lets make it really hard" isn't reason enough for shit. That is bullshit redneck meat head thinking.
Creating free institutions wouldn't make anything harder. It would just be difficult to get into those universities since it's based on merits. It is kinda how the Ivy League schools are supposed to be but we all know money talks at those institutions.
If you are able to get into those universities employers will know you had to work very hard to get in let alone graduate. I'm just trying to save those who aren't really college material years upon years of debt.
I'm not inclined to believe you. As I said before, I've talked to about 30 people from about 7 different countries that have free schools. It makes things a LOT harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Until someone provides links that show how things would work differently in the US, I have no reason to believe in these idealized scenarios that you and drew keep giving.
You are a master of logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
They're probably just crying because they couldn't afford to pay for tuition out of pocket. Something everyone on this forum but Morphix has to worry about. You can still have private institutions (University of Phoenix and NO ONE takes that degree seriously) so I don't get why your asshole is puckering up over this. Stop being dumb.
who is they? You?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
So you're argument is that there will still be private institutions that by your own words suck, but you want me to be happy they're still there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
man, you're going two for two.
"THIS SCHOOL SUCKS, WHY ARE YOU UPSET ABOUT GOING THERE !?!"
Unlike other institutions, UP is strictly a for-profit business model. It's the way all non-state institutions could be forced to run without government-backed assistance but so what? That should be good enough for the common man. It's naive to believe each state will just have one institution. Even if it were who is to say it won't envelop a whole fucking town?
You're trying to white knight the poor but the fact is people who don't even use their degrees are inflating the cost of a higher education. They shouldn't even bother because their debt will be something they pay off for the next 30 years and ends up being a waste. Stop being such a faggot.
And you're a selfish dick that would keep people like Icarus and Josh out of College because you don't feel like paying student loans or competing for your shitty job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
How am I being selfish? Because I don't want people who will never EVER use their degrees to not waste their money going into college? You're just being an instigating twat now. IF is a cook. Do you think he can afford to pay $70+k for a degree he'd use as a place mat? Josh is in a band. He's given up on higher education and is doing what he wants. Why should he have to shell out to pay for an education he will never use?
And I'm not sitting here saying they're dumber than me. I know I've met Josh a few times and talk to him here and there but I don't really know the guy. I don't even speak to IF. They made a choice and it's neither the wrong one or the right one. It's just how they want to live life and they're doing it on their terms.
This is mother fucking America. Choices aren't static here. You make one choice today, you make another tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
If josh turns 50 and wants to learn about fucking dinosaurs at the local university, more power to him. None of this "oh well, he made his choice 30 years ago"
And lol at 70k+ of debt. Only an idiot would do that. There are multiple ways around that.
Community College.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I don't give a shit about Icarus or Josh. If they want to compete for my job they can get in the back of the line. Stop speaking for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Which will either shut down or be harder to get into if we get free state schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
The gov will shut down schools. They aren't going to pay for a bunch of institutions that were originally set up to compete with each other.
Have you really put ANY thought into this Razor? You know, past thinking "Yay, free college. It will be just like now, BUT FREE! AWESOME!"
Why the fuck would the government close them down? They just wouldn't give you aide. I have thought of this. Much deeper than you have.
at least you are being honest about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
this isn't how these things work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
apparently not that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
that or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of basic math
Maybe I can make it simple
lets say CC currently uses 5 cans of magical government pixie dust (because you know, the bulk of CC funding is from the gov) and Universities use 10 cans of magical government pixie dust + 4 cans of crappy student fairy dust
Now, we remove the 4 cans of crappy student fairy dust
Where is it going to come from?
The empty void in your head?
The money has to come from somewhere. And after tax payers bitch and bitch about higher taxes, they will probably close schools to remove redundancy. Some of those will most likely be Community Colleges.
Seriously, why would some schools NOT close? You're fucking removing a source of income. What kind of horse shit are you thinking will happen?
yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Adjust your tuition rates and cut costs. Businesses do it all the time. Do you think they will just close up shop immediately? Those who change for the better will stick around. Those who can't make ends meet will disappear. It's the way this country works.
Yeah, that is how businesses work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
But free tuition that is paid for by tax payer money isn't a business. It isn't even capitalist.
I bet you can guess what is though. Yoshi can probably tell you if you can't figure it out.
I swear, you must live in an interesting world. You're not really aware that CC's kind of are the free alternative offered by the government, are you? Most of their budget is government funding. But you want them to raise their tuition so that state universities can be free. You're a real fucking genius.
If those people want to go to community college they can but they have to pay for it out of pocket. Those who decided to bust ass to get through high school and prove their worth for a free education get sent to the state schools. This doesn't disprove my point about higher education for those who earn it being free. It doesn't even knock down your argument for giving everyone a chance at higher education.
What you don't seem to understand is we give plenty to the poor who have given so little back. It's a bad investment. Even children who are poor can still succeed in the system I've described because it is judged solely on merit. You say I'm being lazy but I think you're full of shit. Nothing I've described can be obtained through laziness.
Not to mention they also have lending power from private institutions and banks. The University of Ontario, Institute of Technology, had partnerships with banks to help fundraise new campus additions (parking, a big library and a 4 story wing complete with 4 media theaters). They also have a fully functional cafeteria with Pizza Pizza and Harvey's (canadian food chains) cranking out food for everyone. They make a cut of that.
The Ontario College of Art & Design has art exhibits and open houses, and sponsors within the local arts community to help pool money (in addition to pretty high tuition rates). Banks would gladly lend them money, because they have a history of making it.
Like anything in this world. It's competition. You either adapt to circumstances or you go extinct.
I love how people I know IRL say I've always leaned pretty hard to the left. I would love them to meet Cheeks.
Everything he's ad-venting is beneficial to the lazy. By grade 9 you should know well enough to do half decent work. But Ironplant says that peoples dad's die and makes all kinds of excuses to find for people for under performing. I said this in my first post in this thread - the difference between a lot of bright people and mediocre people is just that the bright people are willing to study up and gut through the work. That kind of ethic is useful to society, and deserves to be rewarded.
There are 3rd party institutions dedicated to giving meaningful students grants for schooling. There are private colleges open for people who want a second chance. I'm not even sure what Ironplant is trying to say anymore.
Economics. Jokes on me for taking classes in something that interested me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Community Colleges exist to help lower income families and for lower middle class people to acquire skills at a affordable price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You are fucking mad for suggesting that they charge more. It goes against their whole purpose.
I like the system as it is because it allows more students to attend state colleges than a free tuition state college would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
And I don't agree with any of the arguments offered on why it being harder to get in is good.
I don't see how it benefits the lazy. You still have to do the work after you get into college. Not everything is drawing circles or playing with paper or whatever silly shit you did in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
The only two opinions I've heard so far is Yoshi's and Diffs. Diff had to work pretty hard for his education. I don't agree with his opinion but I can respect it. Yoshi had to work hard for his, but he mainly doesn't want free tuition because it would increase government spending.
You and razor just sound like stupid asses. At least Diff can be upfront with his "fuck you" attitude and doesn't hide behind some magical ideal of how business works.
I don't think a single person here said that smart people should live large while everybody else is ground for soylent green. We have said that a system that increases competition and offers additional incentives is a good thing. At the same time, we have also acknowledged that there should be a system where one can succeed post high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Some of the tangents you've gone down in this thread are fucking insane.
Say that while Asia seems to be kicking our asses in engineering save for Google and even they've admitted they hire way more out of country engineers because most here aren't always up to the task.
I think Cheeks is trying to be this man:
http://www.digeratimarketing.co.uk/images/che.jpg
And coming off as this man:
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/p...&pictureid=594
the alternatives you guyes have offered up are a fucking joke. Community College? The fucking UP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Oh come the fuck on.
You got any more yarns from the business lunch table you'd like to share? Got any on how Betty down in mail is blowing the guy that delivers the Chinese food on Thursdays?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
I hope you guys keep this thread going forever.
More like this:
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/p...&pictureid=964
lol you've got to IP credit for this. it got me to laugh, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
What is wrong with community colleges, especially for high school fuck-ups that want to get their act together?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You learn all the same shit you would in years 1-2 of college anyway. And it's way, way cheaper. And every 4-year college in a state has agreements with all the community colleges about what classes transfer. You can move on from CC to 4-year schools without missing a beat. Many people do it.
I'm still not sure what the fuck everyone is arguing about.
Click for full size
Illustration/animation was like this. Hell, painting was back in the way back day. I agree - there's more to learn in certain fields if you apprentice under someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
And they can take you as their lover. Bonus!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
you shouldn't be forced into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I went to CC my first two years and there are times I wish I hadn't. It made the science and math classes a little out of pace with each other. I feel that I would have learned more had I progressed more naturally.
Who is to blame for that? Society?
His mom.
Nobody's forced into anything. By your logic, because I wasn't accepted to, say, Cornell, I was "forced" to go to UCLA. No, that's the school that approved me. And I am perfectly okay with that. If I really wanted to go to Cornell... I could've studied harder. Which is what we are all talking about here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
And spare me the talk about how some kid broke his kneecap before the big test or whatever. That's just how shit goes. It's called life.
I probably don't know what any of that shit is like. I never bothered with any of that crap. I just took the ACT, applied to the college I wanted and my dad would agree to pay for (he only paid for cheap CC mind you), and went. I've never cared about prestige.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Quote:
I'm not even sure what Ironplant is trying to say anymore.
I'm not trying to say fuck you. If I were I would suggest a class-like educational system. In the one I proposed you can get in if you try but you're fucked if you don't.
How bout he just picks up a few books and learns about Dinosaurs...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Also: Don't suppose to know why I did or didn't go to college. You know nothing of my circumstances beyond dropping out my freshman year. I also haven't said if I went to college. Maybe I have degree/s or certificate/s. Maybe I don't. The fact remains it's monumentally easy to attend school for anything of your choosing in this country. CC is cheap as dirt. Often it's free. Shut the fuck up about this already. You're the worst arguer I've ever come across.
This thread is fucking dumb as dog balls.
I await said photo.
You could learn probably everything you're trying to learn through the internet now, and I don't mean online colleges.
There are so many ways to become smarter these days it's absurd.
This one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1272938311
IP is doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Again.
:fail:Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I is have no idea where that is came from
Neither does anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I do, but I think you're being dumb about it. Or at least arguing a point that no one else is really arguing. Like every other argument you get in on TNL.
TNL: Wow, it's a nice day out.
BUTTCHEEKS: APPLES ARE RED YOU ASSHOLES OH I SEE IT IS PICK ON IP TIME BECAUSE HES FROM THE SOUTH.
puh puh puh puh puh puh power!
I don't understand all the hate CC gets, really.
I know people with PhDs and Masters degrees who went to them, and most of them agree, they were just as good if not better than state schools.
I went my first two years to a CC, and was easily able to pay tution + books by working all summer at my uncle's plastics factory.
And I didn't just get out of there with tuition receipts to show for it - I got a degree out of it.
It's good to go to CC while you decide what you want to do and spend less money taking generals anyway. Instead of sitting in 300+ person lecture hall classes at a big school, you are in smaller classes and get to know the teacher.
The only negatives I can see are that it's less competitive because you are competing for grades with lesser students than big schools. When you go to a bigger school, you might have a harder time.
Also, socially you might struggle as you didn't start school at the same time with people freshmen year.
Yes. Should have gone for Finance instead if you had to have generic business stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I considered Finance but I honestly enjoyed the economics more than the finance. Economics was really just to the theoretical to finance's applied. I much prefer learning theories and graphs than formulas and math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I suppose in the long run, I made the wrong choice, even if I enjoyed myself more in school. I also started on an accounting track and interned as an accountant, but that shit was beyond boring. I probably would've had a job out of school if I kept with it, though.
The problem is that most jobs are boring and unfun.
something simple and true about work
if it is easy and fun = hard to get a job
if it is easy and boring = might get a job
if it is hard and fun = might get a job
if it is hard and boring = pretty good chance at getting a job
everyone wants the easy and fun job.
At the time, I was thinking of my education, not my future job prospects. Hopefully the wait between graduation and job will be worth it, although I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Is there anything you could do to make yourself stand out?
He is good at online poker tournaments.
This is true. I've been making several hundred a month to pay for booze and trips to MD while unemployed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
how about making a trip to Brooklyn so you can now see TWO friends who live here.