What the fuck is advocate even talking about.
Yeah that fight sucks and is the worst both technically and thematically.
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What the fuck is advocate even talking about.
Yeah that fight sucks and is the worst both technically and thematically.
Wait til you get to the end though...
my goodness, that tower defense-ish crap drove me crazy
just got this too.
Any reason to play the first two first? And is there even a good way to play bio 1 on windows 7? I've heard it is buggy as hell on anything but xp
They work fine and whoever said that is stupid.
The first two games are more worth playing than Infinite.
Someone lied right to your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I'd say the opposite, actually. Though I still have to play the last couple hours of Infinite.Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronChance
Order of Shockerations:
Bioshock
Minerva's Den
Bioshock Infinite
Bioshock 2
But, hey! They're all good enough to at least play!
System Shock 2
System Shock
...
...
...
Bioshock Infinite
...
...
...
Bioshock
...
...the rest, ehhh who cares.
Bioshock
System Shock 2
Shell Shock
Pontoffel Pock
System Shock
Bioshock Infinite
Tube Socks
Bioshock 2
The original System Shock taught me what dread was as a young lad. Wandering the darkened halls of that space station with monsters lurking around the corner, and the voice of Shodan always taunting me, "Hacker...."
Didn't care for Infinite, though I finished it. It was very pity, but dull. Atmosphere felt like a Disney ride.
roommate already beat it and ruined the plot twists for me. It does remind me a lot of a disney ride
Bioshock 2 deserves more respect than it gets, imo.
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by No One
Bioshock 2 is really good. I don't get the big deal about Minerva's Den. Bioshock 1 is about 75% of an amazing game.
Outside of the boss fights, Infinite is really really good. Underrated imo.
That's what I say, but everyone is always talking up these indie games instead
I loved the game but it deserves most of the criticism it gets. Especially on the combat and disney-effect.
Combat is really good in the game (again, outside of the boss fights), and it's a fun game to explore. The setting is really interesting and there's a lot to see. It's linear, but there are good linear games and bad linear games. This is one of the good ones.
Nerds on GAF were mad it wasn't an point and click adventure game or some junk.
I don't agree with that at all. The second you start exploring is when you realize it's an empty shell. It's the worst kind of linear, where it seems like you should be able to stray from the path but when you do it's just empty streets.
But when you stay on that path it's a wonderful ride.
I got bored of the combat in Infinite. Really really bored. The enemies aren't interesting, most of the powers aren't interesting, and half the weapons just plain suck. It suffers from a glut of combat that the previous games didn't. The upped body count just smears most of the experience into one bloody blur. I barely remember anything about the game, unlike the first two. I agree though Minerva wasn't all that special.
I think the combat is great in Infinite. The arenas are set up in great ways that let you use different tactics, there are almost always a bunch of weapons to choose from, and the powers (especially bucking bronco and the tentacle one) make it feel a lot like Bulletstorm. The problem is, you're always facing waves of enemies in specially-designed combat arenas for the most part, because you are so stupidly powerful that a couple of enemies pose no threat. The few times you fight small groups of enemies in corridors really hammers this home.
The bigger problem with Bioshock Infinite is perfectly illustrated with the sky-line. In fact, the sky-line is a perfect metaphor for the game in general. It feels great to hop on and off of it. It is perfectly polished. But, barring a couple of scripted sequences that you have zero control over, it takes you nowhere. It's always a closed loop. On what is ostensibly Columbia's transport and shipping system, you have no ability to travel anywhere. I think it feels worse than it might in another game because you can see enough vestiges of what I suspect to be the original design for Bioshock Infinite to make the lack of freedom really hurt. It feels like they started off making a true sequel to Bioshock or System Shock, but redesigned it halfway through to turn it into Half-Life 2. Now, Half-Life 2 is fantastic, but that's because they started out making a linear FPS and didn't leave tantalizing hints and weird frustrations in the design by changing tack partway through.
Everything wrong with Bioshock Infinite feels like a result of this redesign: the incredibly limited exploration that, at best, will take you into a small room off of the main path, audio logs placed right in the main path in a way that they often directly conflict with scripted events that occur immediately after, and a bunch of tools at your disposal that just aren't all that useful. It feels like the fire and electricity plasmids especially are the victim of this. Each has precisely one instance where you can use it on the environment to solve a puzzle. Just one. And then they're never used in that way ever again.
And then there are the scripted events. What the hell is the point of building such a detailed world when your only interaction with it is via the trigger of a gun? Why set up so many interesting sequences that the player would want to interact with, and yet make that interaction such a binary choice between "shoot at the people and make them panic" or "watch the event play out"? That demo they showed long before the game came out has a scripted sequence (which doesn't appear in the game) that let Booker interact without immediately resorting to bang-bang-bang. The vestiges of this remain in the few A-or-B choices you get early on in the game and then disappear, never to be seen again.
Vestiges. Always vestiges. That's really the problem. Bioshock Infinite as a pared-down linear FPS would probably have worked just fine. Bioshock Infinite as a large, wide-open immersive simulation would have been amazing. But they split the difference in a way that frustrates players looking for either one. And if I'm wrong, and they didn't make serious alterations partway through development, then their design is simply a mess.
Wow. That's a "/thread" quality post.
After Half Life 2 and several abortive attempts to play the Bioshock games, I'm pretty sure I just don't care for narrative FPS games as a sub genre. I'll probably never play this, even for free.
bVork really nails it. Although I think that 1999 mode really fixes the power imbalance and forces actual player choice, the same way System Shock 2 did.
It's too bad that Infinite is much more linear than SS2.
None of the Shocks nailed that balance between meaningful player choice and exploration the way SS2 did.
I might've missed something when I rented it but I thought the combat was really boring.
To be honest, my brain turned off when they scaled me down to two guns and a regenerating shield.
You didn't. I still haven't been able to force myself to finish this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
I think Bvork nails it. Mzo too, the Halo gun system that has been in everything made me very sad.
Bioshock 1 was more fun to explore. Infinite had better scripted events. Bioshock felt more organic, Infinite felt like ride. Look here, look at this, because there is nothing going on outside of here.
It was good though. Underdelivered but it was a lot of fun.
The Halo gun solution is actually a good thing. Forces you to choose your guns carefully, make interesting choices.
They needed to diversify the guns more. Not the standard pistol, shotgun, sniper, explosive, rifle doubled up. You can't say there are 10 weapons in your game when it's really only five. I really missed the trip wires from 1 and 2 (both of which are absolutely worth playing).
Strongly disagree. The first Bioshock offered a lot more in terms of variety without gating it off for you. I could switch styles at will to deal with different situations. Not every game needs two weapons and a regenerating shield. It's dumb. I'm going to blame player expectations and focus testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
You could also carry every weapon and upgrade every weapon and every plasmid and every skill without ever having to make a choice. Boring, boring, boring. Total opposite of SS2 and what made that game good.
Infinite had a more modern approach but it was actually a throwback to SS2 in a simplified way.
I don't understand why you can only have fun if the game forces you to.
I played as a melee stealth wrench character who could also set up trap gauntlets for the Big Daddies and it was way more fun than being restricted to 2 boring weapons and a plasmid that does something and it also makes a trap when you hold the button.
Dear god stop comparing this to SS2. The plasmids are all so simple and boring and the weapons aren't even remotely interesting, to suggest that being tied to any of them makes the game in any way better is INSANE.
"Do I pick between the generic rifle or the generic shotgun for the next five minutes before I can switch them again? Man, this totally reminds me of the long-term, player-defining choices of SS2."
Most misleading name for a mode ever? I'm glad I played on it but what kind of 1999 FPS wouldn't let you save wherever you want? Maybe some N64 trash would do that but certainly not any respectable PC one back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
Beat this in one go yesterday. It was alright, but it started to peter out around the end.
Things like the last level where you control the bird or the insane asylum were kind of worthless and just more irritating than anything. I found myself just powering through them to be done with them, unlike the first half of the game
With all the mentioned problems in other posts, like being forced to use two guns, having a very controlled game play environment, etc, the game felt like baby's first fps. I'd much rather they let me keep all my guns and just control my use of them via lack of ammo like other fpses. By the end of the game I had determined what gun combo I liked the most and wouldn't give them up, using respawn to get more ammo if I had to. The fps on rails felt ok but I'd much rather it be done like metroid prime where I went back and forth, since it was a contained world, much like prime.
The first half of the game was beautiful though. Kudos to them for using the boat and lighthouse to make Columbia stand out even more when you get there. Those first 2 or 3 hours are some of the best first 2 or 3 hours of any game. Its a shame that infinite essentially shoots its load so soon. After 4 or 5 hours, you're not really getting anything new. If anything, the game gets dark and grimy again and you're just playing an easy fps by the end. I really liked the setting. I liked that there were only a handful of steam punk elements and not everything had gears coming from its head. I'd love to see the assets used to make something like Shurlock Holmes game.
I would have liked to have gotten this game for my dad, as I think he'd like it and my mom could tolerate it because the first half looks so good. But the game is so generic by the end of it, I don't know.
The story was ok to pretty good It was interesting how they explored the idea of one choice defining a person. And yet, no, it was kind of bad. Like, what the shit was in that baptism? How does it drive him completely bat shit insane? Was it just an over the top way of communicating that the idea of a baptism isn't healthy? That the human mind can't deal with something like being a Pinkerton and then not? That if your character was so previously defined by 'sinful' behavior, if it was to leave you would mentally break? Something crazy would fill the void?
Or that religion is just fake magic, and that for real change a person must change little by little through effort and time, and that easy fake changes like a baptism don't work at all, and that when Comstock was baptized he falsly thought he was fixed, did nothing to change, and just got worse and worse?
In either case, I think the over the topness of the characterization hurt the believability of that story element. Comstock and the MC were just too different. I'm sure they were aiming for a gotcha moment at the end by making the characters so different, but whatever.
I wonder how many people beat the game and even understood the moral of the story and didn't just come away with a wtf face?
It didn't drive him insane. Maybe a religious nut but his ideology was consistent with late 1800s American exceptionalism and religious fundamentalism. He met Rosalind and they found Columbia; he could see between worlds and as such was actually a prophet. Prophets tend to have rather high opinions of themselves.
Also, long, flowing capes and majestic, pure white beards.
Several of each.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Of course the catch is that without the baptism, he's still just as bad a person, just in a way that wreaks havoc on a much smaller scale - he may not run a shiny happy doomsday cult, but he does let his self-loathing spiral him into drunkenness and compulsive gambling culminating in the sale of his own daughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
the design choices make it easy to forget that he got depressed after being a Pinkerton and the death of his wife and sat around drinking and gambling. And if that didn't make him fat and horrible looking, the 10 or 20 years he sat in his apartment and felt bad for himself should have. They never really explain how on earth he was on the top of his game after all of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by The Gas
I'm thinking about getting the barrel at sea DLC
any reason not too?
He wasn't totally useless. He held down a job (as a PI). He was like that old archetype of a hard living, gruff type of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Outside of the fact that they are cynically splitting one piece of DLC into two in order to fulfill Season Pass obligations, no. I am sure it will be very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
eh, I gave $10 for inf and 5 for the first two. 20 for the steam season pass won't kill me
playing bioshock 1
this really isn't that good of a game
and it really isn't very 50s either
From what I recall, Rapture was built in the '40s. Given that they probably cut themselves off from the rest of the world, they didn't get the same '50s culture.
its not very 40s either.
It's not bad. It's not the work of genius it's hailed as, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Irrational Games is overrated. System Shock 2 was legit, though.
No one hails it as a work of genius, the backlash was immense and, unlike most backlashes, it was deserved.
It's very Art Deco. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_DecoQuote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
watQuote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
The PC version has a score of 96 on Metacritic (tied for the highest score of any game on the platform). That's 4 points higher than System Shock 2. It's frequently cited by "professional" reviewers as one of the greatest games of all time. I recall a majority of TNL endlessly jerkin' it when it first came out.
That's why I said "backlash."
Metacritic reviews are a snapshot in time. Nobody cares what anyone outside of Pauline Kael and Roger Ebert wrote about The Godfather in 1972.
Bioshock came out in 2007. People have been playing the game and discussing it in far more detail the past 6 years than a bunch of reviewers ever could have a week before release. The game hasn't fared well at all, with good reason.
Bioshock Infinite was really really fun game.
Thats about it. It wasn't perfect or game of the year or any of that shit. The hype it got when it was released is not very accurate of its actual quality.
On a superficial level.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeve
That's the only level on which deco operates.
She's a shallow bitch.
Yep. I admit I overrated it myself in 2007. I never liked it as much as its predecessors but especially on replaying it, I could tell it didn't have as much staying power. Plus, I think 2007 was a relatively weak year for first-person shooters (and maybe games in general) so it stood out more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
It just doesn't do much well. Ok, the start when the aircraft crashes in the water, and you float down in the pod is pretty cool. It had a great intro.
But the way enemies are placed and weapons are placed is shit. It isn't like classics like doom where you had to figure out the right combination of gun/ammo and zig/zags to take out an area of monsters. You just get random shit and then random shit comes after you, and if they overpower you, whatever, you're just going to respawn. Just go zap them and hit them with a wrench. Hell, its not even put together as well as Left4Dead, that had a similar "how do I use the combination of weapons and ammo I have to clear this area"
its very much somewhere between good/bad game and bad/bad game
I think you're pretty wrong about that weapons and enemy thing, but ok.
The idea is that every situation can be dealt with in an open-ended fashion. Locking you into certain combinations would be antithetical to the Shock school of design. The problem (as you pointed out) is that the game is fairly easy and the ability to respawn kills a lot of the tension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
There are some cool ideas in there, but they weren't executed particularly well.
There's a difference between "overreaching" and just plain sucking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Bioshock overreaches, and its plot is a little reheated, but it doesn't suck.
I don't understand complaints about the basic game design of Bioshock. Bioshock 2 and especially Minerva's Den prove that, with only a few tweaks, it can play spectacularly well.
Speaking of which, Bioshock 2 just updated on Steam and now includes Minerva's Den regardless of whether you bought that DLC on GFWL. So now none of you have any excuse to not play it.
Weapon wheel is back, yay! (Now if only they'd retcon it into Infinite itself...)
Bioshock Infinite literally got me back into current gen gaming. Apart from my 16-bit consoles and Neo Geo stuff, I hadn't touched a modern video game in a long while, but I picked up Infinite the day it came out and played it three times through in the course of a week or so. Yeah, it has it's share of issues, but I still totally adored it.
Curious, did you play Bioshock 1? Not sure how long you mean by long while. It's a great game, and I'd be really interested in an opinion going that direction (Infinite -> 1/2).
Yeah, I played Bioshock before this one. Then I went back and played it again after going through Infinite the third time. Still enjoyed the hell out of it. Bioshock 2... I didn't mind it for a ride through, but I had not much desire to return to it.
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/us/e...k-infinite-na/
GMG20-7EKXF-UTQXX
$11. I still don't want it, but somebody probably does!
I'll save you all the trouble!
Booker was just the name of his sled!
No, you're thinking of Citizen Kane.
Gee, really?
Burial at Sea goes live at 1pm CotUST tomorrow!
So you'll be done with it by 2:30. It's supposed to be an hour and a half, and mostly combat.
This might be the worst Season Pass, and that's saying something.
I really liked Infinite and I'm not going near this business until it's at least 75% off.
I think I got 50% off the whole season pass, but I am certainly surprised that the first two releases were a storyless one and a partial one.
The last part of the season pass will be a digital coupon for 25% off the next season pass.
Saints Row The ThirdQuote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
SRTT had content, terrible content but it was content. This Season Pass is a horde mode and three hours of content split into two parts.
Ok, good point.
Sunk cost for me, I guess, because I bought it months ago
Holy shit, they want $15 for this? Going to wait for a sale on this one.
I just started playing this, got to the beginning of the violence, and Holy Balls! The graphics! Wow! I thought Resident Evil 4 looked good, but this...
PS4 who? Xbone what?
I had no idea games were this purdy.
You must be watching YouTube videos of the PC version.
I love Cheebs' takes on all these new games now.
It's like he stepped out of a time machine
I love it. RE4 was the comparison.
I think he's definitely one of the funnier trolls we've had.
Can we please change his name to Grandpa?
No shit. I played Infinite in December on 360 and thought it looks like shit. Some of the texture seems really low-res. Game wasn't that great either, and story is meh. Nothing will beat the original Bioshock.
GTA V looks so much better than this game, and considering the open-world, it is even more impressive.
Nothing has beaten a fucking SD Gamecube game until this year.
Sounds legit.
I hate to be that guy, but the PC version is really amazing looking.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
Maybe a bit better looking than Pikmin 2.
Doc Brown imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Rumpy
The season pass concept will never die. This saddens me.
Who cares? It's not as though the DLC isn't available separately. The season pass is basically gambling with the odds depending on how much you like the game or trust the developer.
I completely trust Irrational, Infinite was a great standalone product and not a fit for season pass. Most cases it just seems a point to offer preorder incentive.
Or the case of Batman on the Wii U, which has had its DLC cancelled so they're now refunding everyone who bought a season pass.
One day someone will make a season pass that lives up to Borderlands 2's.
In which 2 out of X are any good?Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
It'd be a good start.
I believe you, but my videocard won't be able to do that anyway. Plus, Infinite is not a game I ever want to play again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I bought the Bioshock season pass when it was mistakenly on sale for 5 bucks, that's about as much as I'd ever pay for a season pass.
The return to rapture game - Lost at Sea I believe it was called - was so forgettable I beat it last month and already forget the title. The core game of Infinite is excellent, though, so I hope the rest of the DLC packs are worthwhile. I don't have the Season Pass, those are for suckers
LinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Eurogamer