World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

Yeah... about that... I've been crazy busy at work lately. We've relocated the office to a different location (and all that entails, including wiring the new place for data/phone ugh), and I am now back to full-time 9-5. Since I'm a horrible retard, I need to go to bed at 10pm to be able to drag my sorry ass out of bed (the hardest thing in my world to do) so I can get there on time. I'll still be on in the evenings, but I'm done at 10, no exceptions. So no raids for me unless there's a Fri or Sat night group.

And nothing of value was lost.

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Originally Posted by Vlos

Alright, if you can show up all the time we'll take you. We have a billion tanks though.

Edit: Make Mzo gear up Caduceus as a shadow priest and you can totes take his spot.

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I didn't say that I want in all the time or that not getting in is the big problem.

I'm saying fuck you faggot, don't insult my skills. There's plenty of things you can say I do wrong but playing the game sure as fuck ain't one of em.

Alright, I apologize for making any disparaging remarks about you. My frame of reference for how you play is from like, right when you came back. It was probably just you not being as accustomed to tanking as the tanks I normally group with are. Sorry.

Aight, it's all good.

Although you just did Grim Batol with me a few days ago. :p

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Stoneform (Dwarf) now reduces all damage taken by 10% instead of increasing armor by 10%.

And with that Dwarfs just became the new master tank race. I'm expecting Sco from Method to have already race changed.

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Sco hasn't yet but the dude from Vodka did the day the patch hit.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

Although you just did Grim Batol with me a few days ago. :p

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Then I guess you're still terrible.

We should probably stick to whining about Bbobb's connection/latency issues

Lucent actually gave me a fix a while back that is pretty impressive. It keeps my latency around 220ish which isn't to rough.

That's my normal connection speed since I'm forced to play on wireless.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Sco hasn't yet but the dude from Vodka did the day the patch hit.

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Min/Maxing faggots, I will never change my original character. Where's the RP in that?

That's why RF is ranked 4344 in the world.

Because Mzo won't be a team player.

I play on wireless and my latency is generally below 70

get better internets, chris

All the fags that went melee need to go back to ranged
I'll bust out my shockadin set and force them to carry me ;B

Chogall was really easy in 25 man. Took 6 attempts, I'm really looking forward to Nef (Which I also think is easier in 25 man) and Al'Akir (Which is apparently harder in 25 man?)

Al'Akir phase one is probably harder on 25 man. I'm sure the rest of the fight is just as easy or easier

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Sco hasn't yet but the dude from Vodka did the day the patch hit.

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The current GM-ad-hoc of vodka; a)was rejected by Rampant Fronting back in the day because we saw through his stepping stone bullshit, and b)can't kick.

Also, he can't kick.

I still don't have my Reins of the Drake of the West Wing.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/20..._300x425,0.jpg

But you can kick Drew. You can kick.

Rampant Fronting rejecting a tank that is now the number one main tank in America is pretty fucking awesome to be honest.

you guys will always be my stepping stone E>

I think Drew is talking about a rogue, Killars or whoever. Not sure if he's a tank now

Yeah we don't know who you're talking about Opaque, we rejected Killars because he can't kick.

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The current GM-ad-hoc of vodka; a)was rejected by Rampant Fronting back in the day because we saw through his stepping stone bullshit, and b)can't kick.

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The GM of Vodka is a warrior tank named Grafarion. If you guys rejected Killars then you did not reject the GM of Vodka.

That being said Killars is not a character that plays anymore and the two characters could easily belong to the same person. EDIT: actually I guess there's two characters named Killars in the guild that are high ranking, but one is named Killarss. Whatevs.

Drew said GM-ad-hoc, he really just should have said he's one of the five people that run the guild and not used the term GM. I bet he doesn't use Monster Cables

So he's saying that one of the current active members of their management team? Just say that then, or name the character.

Served.

I still say it's rad you guys rejected someone from Vodka.

You guys are like Michael Jordan's high school basketball team.

Opaque, I don't think you understand that Killars Can't Kick is both a joke and a statement of bedrock solid fact. Also he's insufferable, like you except a rogue.

Shit I remember killars from vanilla. I don't remember the kicking problem but I do remember him being an annoying motherfucker.

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Originally Posted by Vlos

Also he's insufferable, like you except a rogue.

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So, like you?

NO YOU FUCK OFF

Just talked to Dael, she says SOJ is breaking up... something about the officers playing some Rift thing? I dunno.

Any ranged dps from there you guys want? Aside from obviously Dael as a healer?

So are we officially the oldest guild on the server then?

Probably. Lets tell people we are the oldest in the game though.

Break up Goon Squad on Mal'Ganis and you might be able to pull that off.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Just talked to Dael, she says SOJ is breaking up... something about the officers playing some Rift thing? I dunno.

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Rift is some new WoW-clone MMO that changes things up by using the old style of WoW talent trees.

Actually the gimmick is that each class can pick and choose from like six talent trees, but 90% of each tree is just picking options that say, "You now deal more damage."

We made the guild on 12/15/2004, that is a long time ago!

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Break up Goon Squad on Mal'Ganis and you might be able to pull that off.

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lol subscription prices

Mzo that is their oldest troll and I am ashamed you just said that.

Never heard of them before. If they rigged the site to do that, good for them, that's awesome.

Goon Squad is a bunch of guys from Something Awful and their guild has existed since Beta. They have over a thousand members across all their different guilds on Mal'Ganis with the top raid group in the guild that's actually named Goon Squad, at least that's how it was explained to me by a friend who was in the guild until BC. They totally charge people to use their forums and in general they're a bunch of douches, but they are responsible for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm03136FTI4

To my knowledge they are the only guild that still exists from Beta and has never name changed and has maintained constant raiding through out every single tier that's existed. Also, from what I understand as soon as you could get scarab lord on new BC servers something like 20 Goon Squad members got them and then transferred back to Mal'Ganas.

Well at least they're huge trolls like we are. It brings a tear to this one's eye.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

So he's saying that one of the current active members of their management team? Just say that then, or name the character.

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From what I've been told, which is 2nd hand, said rogue is currently one of two people temporarily running the guild. Hence ad-hoc, meaning a temporary solution.

We only didn't accept his app because he was dripping with ambition, you could tell he was going to farm a couple of karas with us, go to a bigger guild, and keep hoping from guild to guild until he would get to the "top". I don't think he's a bad guy, he's just like you, doesn't understand what a game is supposed to be about.

Oh, and I'm sorry that I didn't spend a larger portion of my time tweaking the language of my posts, for small gains, until you completely understood what I was saying. Maybe by posting every single night, for long hours, I could make a huge mark on this thread, I could maybe be like the no 1. rep'd poster on this one thread, on this one video game board for 4 hours.

I could be great.

You have just ranked up!

SPOILER: I kind of love Drew.

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I don't think he's a bad guy, he's just like you, doesn't understand what a game is supposed to be about.

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I take it you don't like any professional sports?

You could tell he was going to play a few rounds of flag football with us and go to a better league and keep going from league to league until he hit the NFL. Joe Montana wasn't a bad guy, he's just like you, doesn't understand what a game is supposed to be about.

Oh dear god.

Those are competitive games by design. WoW PvE is not

The Ogres in Halo made a few million during the four years they played Halo 2 and they each won a few cars. Fatal1ty is still worth millions, even if he's a douche.

Just pointing out that not everyone who takes a game seriously is doing something stupid, Killars obviously loves the game and now he's running the best guild in the United States and getting paid to play the game, that's not really a bad deal.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Those are competitive games by design. WoW PvE is not

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I'll grant you that it wasn't inherently, but the internet exists and the community turned it into a competition. Kungen from Ensidia hasn't had to work a real job in years because Ensidia gets so many site hits and he gets payed to go to game conventions and talk about wow.

Then again it probably sucks to get flown around the world, for free, to talk about a game that you love to people who hang on your every word. If only he knew what a game is supposed to be he could have avoided all that!

Personally, I would love to work 90-100 hours a week and make 20 grand a year for it.

I'm so glad the Steelers can replay the Greenbay Packers for that superbowl over and over and over and over until they get it, rather then attempt it once a year; they maybe should stack their team with one position until they get it.

Opaque, did you know there is an industry built around female bodybuilders getting fans in submission holds.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

I'll grant you that it wasn't inherently, but the internet exists and the community turned it into a competition. Kungen from Ensidia hasn't had to work a real job in years because Ensidia gets so many site hits and he gets payed to go to game conventions and talk about wow.

Then again it probably sucks to get flown around the world, for free, to talk about a game that you love to people who hang on your every word. If only he knew what a game is supposed to be he could have avoided all that!

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There is no 'supposed to be', the game is what it is and it is not a competition. The reason people watch or compete in any organized sport is because there are set rules which both teams play by. Like Drew said, there are no constraints on class composition or amount of time spent attempting something - so there is no 'fair' competition. It's just a whoever has the most free time wins contest

What Dave said is essentially true, with the small addendum that one can shave time required for completing content if you're not a complete moron. We cleared normal content weeks before almost every other guild on the server because we knew how to operate a few basic tenets of the game that the encounters were asking of us.

For WoW PvE, you're operating under the limited parameters established by Blizzard and Blizzard alone, and they change often and without consideration for those in "competetive PvE." They do of course encourage guilds to clear the content to gain titles and perhaps some recognition, but to say that the intended design of the game is so that one can someday get paid to devote full time to their video game is disingenuous.

This is the same kind of thinking that lets most people think they're playing Smash Brothers in any kind of competitive field. To even make it something balanced enough to be considered a "sport," you have to cut out 90% of the game's content, including items, many characters, and most stages.

No tanks, no healers, boomkin only.
FINAL DESTINATION.

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Originally Posted by TrialSword

For WoW PvE, you're operating under the limited parameters established by Blizzard and Blizzard alone, and they change often and without consideration for those in "competetive PvE." They do of course encourage guilds to clear the content to gain titles and perhaps some recognition, but to say that the intended design of the game is so that one can someday get paid to devote full time to their video game is disingenuous.

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Which is why I never said that. My exact words:

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I'll grant you that it wasn't inherently, but the internet exists and the community turned it into a competition.

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When there's site like Wowprogress that get millions of hits a day during progression and professional guilds and any aspect of the game is in MLG it's really hard to make an argument against the idea that WoW has been morphed by the fan base into something that has a competitive aspect. It's not built with any inherent ranking devices but neither is the sport of football; if my college team beats another college team they only get moved around in rankings because other people decided that it would matter, but there's no rules inherant in football nor it was it created specifically for college play or NFL play or anything, it was just made as a game. Same deal with this, it's turned into a completely different beast for some people because of the fan base.

I don't deny that it totally lacks the greater consistency that football or baseball have and I don't hold them on the same level at all; that being said people who make more money than I ever will playing Halo and Unreal and WoW aren't exactly people I can justify looking down on. I sure as shit wish I made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing Halo like the Ogres do.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

I'm so glad the Steelers can replay the Greenbay Packers for that superbowl over and over and over and over until they get it, rather then attempt it once a year; they maybe should stack their team with one position until they get it.

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Every single year every team gets another chance to make it to and win the super bowl. Every boss that is ever introduced in WoW get's killed for the first time only once. No one else will ever be able to shoot for the world first Heroic Nefarian kill, so I while I get the point you making in that they can keep going for it, I'd consider attempts no different than downs in this situation.

I love you Opaque

Then again maybe you're right, it's not as if Football teams run the same plays over and over and over in practice until they get it right. It's not as if they have more people that don't play than do play doing work in the background to make things happen. They don't have trainers, and coaches and specific people in charge of every single aspect of the game. They don't draft players and have unions. Greenbay just showed up in Dallas having never dedicated anytime or effort into learning how to play the Steelers and with no practice playing together they pulled out the win on pure determination!

If only people who compete in WoW could figure out that if you don't just walk in and do something instantly and with no work involved it loses all credibility.

Excellent analogy.

But yeah, you think people are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to play Halo 2, so yeah. There's that

In 2006 Dan Ryan (one of the Ogres) signed a contract with Major League Gaming worth 250,000 dollars over three years. That was before his winnings, which beyond money also included a car.

Try again, asshole.

Ok, so some dude got paid 83 grand a year for three years (which I'm sure MLG regrets). That money is to travel and compete in competitions, represent the brand and advertise. Not to sit at home and play videogames.

If they really got paid in the hundreds of thousands to play games, the developers who made the fucking games would quit their jobs and do it.

If nothing else, I think this thread has helped demonstrate how retarded people are to pay other people to play a game. Also: the hilarious nature of world first MMO guilds.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Ok, so some dude got paid 83 grand a year for three years (which I'm sure MLG regrets). That money is to travel and compete in competitions, represent the brand and advertise. Not to sit at home and play videogames.

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No fuck shit. Do you have a PHD in pointing out horrible obvious crap that is irrelevant? You said:

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But yeah, you think people are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to play Halo 2, so yeah. There's that

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And I showed you someone who did make that kind of money to play Halo 2. I never said he stayed at home.

It's as if I said "Peyton Manning is getting $27 million to to play football" and you said "well yeah, but not at home. He has to travel and represent the Colts". No shit.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

If nothing else, I think this thread has helped demonstrate how retarded people are to pay other people to play a game. Also: the hilarious nature of world first MMO guilds.

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Part of me agrees with you but the other part of me knows that 60 years ago they were saying the same thing about Football.

Literally, the same thing. My great grandma went to her grave thinking it was stupid that any football players get money to "play a game for kids".

The real joke is on the venture capitalists and corporations who fund MLG.

You can't compare it to the early days of the NFL. MLG have no clear revenue streams whatsoever, all they can do is produce content that no one will want to pay for

They make huge money off it and it's relatively cheap and highly effective advertising.

I mean, say what you want, but when was the last time one of your ideas made you a millionaire? Hell, people said the same shit about UFC when it was starting up, but I bet Dana White is pretty stoked that he didn't listen to people like you.

Football is different than running WoW instances, if only because it is a sport that's easily commercialized and spectated. You can build stadiums around football, generate thousands of jobs to running them and the league, and make millions upon millions by charging people to come and see them play the game live.

There are any hundreds or thousands of WoW instances at play, and any players worth a damn are hidden behind their avatars (and prefer it that way.)

And what I meant before about the game's design not revolving around the drive to get to #1, that's in direct contrast to things like Football and Boxing, games designed around a tournament style, race to the top structure. That same competitive structure as applied to WoW is strictly invented on the fan and playerbase side. From the designer's side, the design of the game is to have 10 or 25 people coordinate their efforts and solve a group puzzle in a set amount of time and have enough math on their side to do it efficiently. It's a need of the human condition to turn a pasttime into a sport if it isn't one, no matter how little sense it makes to do so. Football and other athletic sports were designed from the ground up to be spectated and goal oriented.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

They make huge money off it and it's relatively cheap and highly effective advertising.

I mean, say what you want, but when was the last time one of your ideas made you a millionaire? Hell, people said the same shit about UFC when it was starting up, but I bet Dana White is pretty stoked that he didn't listen to people like you.

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How do they make money? Go ahead, answer.

Literally the same way the people who fund and run the World Series of Poker make money. Prizes come out of entry fees with the them taking some off the top for themselves, it's also a place where people who are viewing the competition or results are bombarded by advertisements which they get money to display.

If you mean the people who are advertising, well I suppose you don't understand how commercials on TV or ads in magazines make money either? It's ok, I remember the first time someone told me "you have to spend money to make money" too.

Opaque, the difference is and I'm not sure if gridiron is different, in all levels of Rugby people will train and play about the same amount. 1 game a week, 2 nights of training. The difference between the professional league and the amateur local teams is skill and fitness.

What I am saying; WoW is easy, there is barely any difference in the skill between the top end and low end of raiding, we are like top 5000 in the world at best, and we have two rogues that are equally as good, if not better from what I've seen, than a top rogue in the 2nd best US guild. The reason his guild has cleared all content and their guild has not cleared one heroic boss; is mainly due to logistics; i.e. having lots of people with many different alts that are geared so you can create the perfect class composition for every encounter, or even stack an encounter; and raiding 70+ hours a week vs raiding 10 hours a week.

Competitive PvE WoW is a race to the bottom, rather than a race to the top.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Literally the same way the people who fund and run the World Series of Poker make money. Prizes come out of entry fees with the them taking some off the top for themselves, it's also a place where people who are viewing the competition or results are bombarded by advertisements which they get money to display.

If you mean the people who are advertising, well I suppose you don't understand how commercials on TV or ads in magazines make money either? It's ok, I remember the first time someone told me "you have to spend money to make money" too.

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WRONG. The truth is that they don't make money. Sure, they might buy a profitable website here and there and promptly run it into the ground but they have been relying on venture capital for about six or seven years, they just finished their fifth round of private funding (generously donated by Legion Enterprises, an investment group run by an MLG co-founder and former CEO). But how long can you continue to promise VCs a return on investment while stringing them along and taking their millions? 8 years? 9 years? a decade? The clock is running out. If they don't get a lucrative TV deal soon, MLG is fucked and good riddance. Those millionaires you admire? Back to their day jobs

And by "race to the bottom", by bottom I mean cellar, as in your mum's cellar.

I love this thread right now.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Opaque, the difference is and I'm not sure if gridiron is different, in all levels of Rugby people will train and play about the same amount. 1 game a week, 2 nights of training. The difference between the professional league and the amateur local teams is skill and fitness.

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People who play in recreational leagues do not put nearly the effort into their game that professionals do. Obviously you need skill and natural ability to play in the NFL but each team has different training regiments and schedules and some players like Peyton Manning for example are said to spend almost 20 addition and hours just studying tapes and going over strategy before big games.

Him puting all that extra time into pulling out a win isn't something people who talk down on, so why would anyone give shit to a guild that's willing to work more to get a world first kill? Especially if they enjoy doing it.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

What I am saying; WoW is easy, there is barely any difference in the skill between the top end and low end of raiding, we are like top 5000 in the world at best, and we have two rogues that are equally as good, if not better from what I've seen, than a top rogue in the 2nd best US guild. The reason his guild has cleared all content and their guild has not cleared one heroic boss; is mainly due to logistics; i.e. having lots of people with many different alts that are geared so you can create the perfect class composition for every encounter; and raiding 70+ hours a week vs raiding 10 hours a week.

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I do agree that the time put in helped a lot, but you're nuts if you think time is the only factor. If time was the only factor then what is the explanation for how long it took some guilds to kill Algalon after they unlocked him? You only had an hour, so there was no spending more time on him than anyone else, yet Ensidia killed him two weeks after they unlocked him and on some servers he sat undefeated after being unlocked for months.

Also, my old guild raids two days a week right now and they're 240th in the world and 70th in the US, you really want to tell me that them playing for 8 hours is SIGNIFICANTLY more time than you guys are raiding? It's probably the same amount of time, so there must be a skill difference somewhere.

They probably are better overall, as in, all players world class not 80%?
They're 25 man, so can do heroic modes?
They are better organized?
They've actually attempted heroic modes?

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

They're 25 man, so can do heroic modes?

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What does this mean?

Do you think ten mans can't do heroics? Do you even play this game?

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

They've actually attempted heroic modes?

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So Wow is easy but RF isn't attempting HMs why? If it's easy why spend the same ammount of time killing the boss on normal instead of heroic for the better gear?

the 10-man group is plenty interested in trying heroics but the guild as a whole is more interested in trying to put together a 25man so that the whole group can actually play because the majority of us just want to play the game and not obsess over it.

The reason we haven't started Heroics yet is because when we cleared normal content 2 weeks ago, we decided that 10 people raiding and 20+ not raiding was not fun for most people, so we started recruiting and playing around with forming two 10-man groups or a 25 man group. We actively chose to have more people play and enjoy the game rather than rush right into heroics.

Now, soonish, we will start on heroics, but I'm trying to make it clear here that our philosophy has always been doing what's the most fun for the most people as possible. We have 25 people who want to get together and lay waste to easy bosses and make fun of Mad Eye Maloney over ventrilo.

I think your problem seems to be that you can't reconcile that people who are good at the game and potentially able to go much further in whatever small competitive paradigm the players have invented for themselves choose not to, as if it were the only point in "being good" at PvE.

How many nights a week does RF raid? I'm just curious.

It seems like most of you are trying to say things along the lines of if you just played more or didn't want to have fun you would progress further, but I came from a guild that played three days max and had just a fucking blast the entire time. I've hoped in vent with them during this expansion while they're raiding and even with only a two day a week thing going on right now they're still demolishing content and having the most fun ever in vent the entire time.

I don't know what crazy misconception you have, but they're not half of a tier ahead of you because they take the game too serious or because they play all the time. They started leveling at the same time you guys did and finished clearing normal 25 man content 5 weeks before you guys finished 10 man content, they also cleared normal content in four weeks of 2 days a week raiding so 8 nights of raiding. How many night of raiding did it take RF to clear through Nefarian in their ten man group that totally finds the game easy?

Five weeks before us? So they full cleared the week after the game came out?

My math is probably off by a week or two, but I think we started raiding sometime around Christmas. So please excuse us for not having full cleared by New Years.

According to WoW progress your Nefarion 10 man kill was on Feb 3 but based on this thread you guys actually got it on Feb 2nd. They got there's on Dec 31st which is 5 weeks before yours and 4 weeks after the game came out.

Math and calenders are super hard though.

Well. WoWprogress is wrong, first of all.

Yeah, off by one day. I hate to break it to you, but December 31st is still about five weeks before Feb 2. Specifically it's 4 weeks and 5 days. December 31st is also not one week after December 7th.

Seriously, you made the statement that 5 weeks before you was one week after the game came out even though you knew your kill was Feb 2nd? How is the distance between December 7th and Feb 2nd six weeks to you?

I don't understand why this is so hard for your to understand. We don't care about how quick we kill shit. We didn't even attempt Nef until the end of January, so the fact that we didn't kill him by New Years doesn't really bother me. Good your old guild, they can kill shit quickly. They probably started raiding before most of us even hit 85 too.

We took about two weeks of being at Nef and not even touching him because Josh had to work the night shift, so we had MechDeus offtanking in straight, badly put together blues. There are way better players than us playing at a 3 night a week pace though, I don't know what the fuck you guys are smoking to make you think our raid group could have been 5/12 or close to at this point.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

How many night of raiding did it take RF to clear through Nefarian in their ten man group that totally finds the game easy?

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A little over a month to go from Halfus to Nef in 10-man, which is supposed to be harder than 25, right?
Sounds pretty even, or at least close enough to not care.

It took you four raid nights to kill the same number of bosses they killed in their first two raid nights.

How long it took you to attempt has nothing to do with it. You don't care that you kill things slower, that's fine (shit when I played I didn't let myself care that Paragon cleared the first wing of normals modes in day and we couldn't), but don't act like you guys are only slower because you don't care when you put the same ammout of effort forth your first night, I'm sure, and got one third the results.

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They probably started raiding before most of us even hit 85 too.

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Which is why I said it took you guys 6 weeks to clear content, not 9. I already took into account that you started at the end of December.

I'm also having a hard time believing that a "TOP 100 U.S. GUILD" doesn't read strats and had no one play on the beta or anything.

This is why WoW is not a competitive sport

They had no Beta raid testing, but yes they watched videos.

I'm sure not one of you guys ever read a strategy for the bosses though, I absolutely believe that.

We did, when we got to the boss. MAYBE THAT'S WHY IT TOOK FOUR RAID NIGHTS AND NOT THREE OR SOMETHING! LOL!

Which is basically what they did.

One guy, Zerg, watched the videos and when they stood in front of the boss for the first time he explained it to the raid. That is also how we did every hard mode ICC fight all the way up to HM Arthas and when it came to HM Anub in ToC no strategy videos existed when they got their kill.

Well then that makes Zerg pretty much the best WoW raid leader in the game. He should contact MLG immediately. I'm serious.

He's not the raid leader.

He is ridiculously good though, in ICC he switched to his Elemental Shaman which he had just leveled and by the time we were done he had top 3 rankings for Elemental DPS on every single HM fight in the instance even though it was his first time raiding on that character. It was pretty impressive to watch him play to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

It was pretty impressive to watch him play to be honest.

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No it's not.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Part of me agrees with you but the other part of me knows that 60 years ago they were saying the same thing about Football.

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I said "games," not videogames. I was including football.

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They got there's on Dec 31st which is 5 weeks before yours and 4 weeks after the game came out.

Math and calenders are super hard though.

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So's English.

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but don't act like you guys are only slower because you don't care when you put the same ammout of effort forth your first night, I'm sure, and got one third the results.

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We were there with 4-5 out of 10 being new people that had never raided with us before or raiding as a new class in a different role (I know Aqui, Hizz, and Gilme were new, Artec went from lock dps to pally heals, and I think we had someone else random in there too). We went in fairly blind (Matt tried to explain things but everyone except George tuned him out), dicked around, RPed in general chat, killed stuff, and enjoyed it.

As much as it appears to bug you that we find the content easy yet didn't move as fast as some random group of people that you aren't part of and no one else here knows or cares about, I can't really say it's something that matters to anyone in RF nor anyone in whichever guild you're comparing us to.

Imagine if Vlos walked in on a new toon and all the sudden set the world record for a heroic fight after month of playing the toon, he literally became on of the top three players in the world for that spec. You wouldn't even be a little impressed?

Also Mech raided in a guild that did HM Arthas, you really don't see a skill or consistency difference between those players and RF? Really?

Consistency, meaning they show up for raids? I'm sure there's a huge difference. I mean we want to try a 25 man tonight and FIRSTBLOOD is going to a CONCERT! Can you believe that!? He puts real life social occasions before WoW!

I'll never be impressed by a damage meter in this game.
I mean especially when you can see and know everything you need to be doing on a spreadsheet and the only challenge is recreating it and reacting to a set group of situational things.

OH ALSO DAVE I'M GOING TO THE CONCERT AFTER THE RAID =D

I mean always performing.

Also you act as if my old guild had attendance requirements which it did not have, if you wanted to go to a concert you just went.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

I mean especially when you can see and know everything you need to be doing on a spreadsheet and the only challenge is recreating it and reacting to a set group of situational things.

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The same thing could be said about free throws in basketball. The hoop is always the same size and distance away from you and you throw the same size and weight ball every time. It is the most simple thing ever and yet if someone could do it with 100% accuracy they would be incredible.

Nope, still not impressed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opaque

The same thing could be said about free throws in basketball. The hoop is always the same size and distance away from you and you throw the same size and weight ball every time. It is the most simple thing ever and yet if someone could do it with 100% accuracy they would be incredible.

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That's where the skill lies. The same cannot be said of someone hitting 1 or Q over and over. I can do it as good as the next guy

I still click half my shit, I'm horrible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Also Mech raided in a guild that did HM Arthas, you really don't see a skill or consistency difference between those players and RF? Really?

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Consistency in terms of showing up, yes. Skill, not really so much.

MAIN THING: until right now RF has always been ridiculously hampered by terrible healers, as we've stated many times before. It's really been unacceptable how fucking terrible most of our healer core has been (especially when I was in it). The only reason we beat other guilds this time is because we server transferred a hentai artist & co. in to heal for us and they're actually competent at the game.

Celebration now occurs in hand-drawn moments of us fucking each other.

[edit] I say most because I'm obviously excluding Drew, before he gets sad and/or defensive at me.

Fuck, someone post it. I don't have the url handy

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/thr...post1064583137

NSFW, as marked in the post.