Mosque at Ground Zero

I believe this was brought up in the Obama thread, at least search thinks it was, but that is a mess and huge and also most people don't go in it. I wanted to know the general opinion of TNLers regarding this. It recently came up on the FaceSpace and someone who I thought was generally a good person who understood American values suddenly was against freedom of religion and also general logic in numbers. To her saying we shouldn't build it because Muslims caused 9/11 I said:

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First of all freedom of religion is something you can't take away just because you personally don't like the religion. As soon as you do that we are no longer acting like America.

Also keep in mind that there are around 1 billion (numbers fr...om 1990 to 2010 range anywhere from 700 million to 1.5 billion but we'll play it safe in the middle for now) Muslims in the world, even if some insane number like 10 million Muslims were terrorists that would still be .01% of the total population.

Saying all Muslims are terrorists because the smallest fraction of them are is like saying all Christians should be condemned because of the Salem Witch Trials.

In my opinion there is no better place than ground zero to build a Mosque, if only to teach America that MUSLIMS are not our enemies, TERRORISTS are; and those two words are not mutually exclusive by any means.

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I also read something on Cracked which I thought was very accurate:

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Originally Posted by Cracked

You Can’t Simultaneously Acknowledge A Right And Insist That Your Government Suppress It

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Originally Posted by Cracked

There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.

You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.

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Real opinions on this? I know TNL can be full of dicks, but no one here is stupid enough to both love America but hate everything it stands for when it doesn't suit their own agenda... are they?

Stop trolling.

Anyone whining about it is a faggot.

/thread.

Opaque, the people who are against it are trying to say that it's some kind of slap in the face. You're not going to convince them that Muslim doesn't equal terrorist.

Which is really the shame of the whole thing.

There are people in this country who will live their whole lives labeling almost 1/5th of the worlds population as terrorists, even though mathematically if you rounded to the nearest thousand you would have to say that 100% of Muslims are anti-terrorist and hate those behind the 9/11 attacks even more than most non Muslim Americans do.

Too much retarded in this non-issue. It's a story that simply doesn't exist, but like Harry Potter people get stupidly passionate about it. The difference is that Harry Potter was worth following.

James

They're the same people who believe Obama was born in Kenya, that McDonald's sprays ammonia on their burgers, etc. You can't fix stupid. The only thing you can do if you have stupid friends like that is be a good friend and call them fucking morons.

Everything that needs to be said about this mosque:

(actually worth the 12 minute clock in.)

Nothing that idiot has said since "He put the biscuit in the basket" on SportsCenter has needed to be said. You know this is a non-issue when he's anything resembling correct.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Nothing that idiot has said since "He put the biscuit in the basket" on SportsCenter has needed to be said. You know this is a non-issue when he's anything resembling correct.

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I don't like him either. But it's a great video.

I'm certainly no fan of Islam (as I've made clear before) and honestly I would like for the mosque to not be built but as Opaque said, supressing religion is grossly anti-American. There is as much of a right for a mosque to be built there as there is for a McDonald's to be built in the same location. It would be completely unconstitutional for it to be blocked.

I was flipping through the channels last night, and Jon Stewart had Brian Williams on talking about a Katrina documentary he did that will be on soon. Stewart said that it must be on MSNBC because Williams didn't want anyone to see it. That was the most useful 2 minutes I've seen on that show.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

Anyone whining about it is a faggot.

/thread.

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*high-five*

This country freaks me out a lot more than usual, lately.

Is it wrong for them to build it there? Nope. They can. Its not only freedom of religion, but also free to build anything and anywhere.

• Do I wish they move it down a block? Sure.
• Is it insensitive? Possibly.
• Is it a non-issue? YOU SURE AS FUCK IT IS.

I like what Greg Gutfeld wants to do. He wants to build a Gay Muslim Bar next to it. It will serve 72 virgin drinks. And he's going to name it either ...

• JihHot
• JihDude
• Suspicious Packages
• You Mecca Me Hot

Good fucking find Rich.

Hey lets talk about how Jon Stewart actually does a lot of really great serious interviews with a lot of politicians on his joke news show, because he really does... i mean since Yoshi felt the need to bring it up.

You know what bothers me most? The fact that a lot of you fuckers while not thinking it should be blocked still wish it wasn't going to be built there. Why? There's a church right there, you have a problem with that being there as well? Do you wish it was elsewhere also? You seem to think you're not part of the problem saying shit like:

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Is it wrong for them to build it there? Nope. They can. Its not only freedom of religion, but also free to build anything and anywhere.
Do I wish they move it down a block? Sure.
Is it insensitive? Possibly.
Is it a non-issue? YOU SURE AS FUCK IT IS.

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But you still are part of the problem if you have any inclination that this is insensitive or even a hint of a thought that you think it would be better if it were moved.

By wanting them to move it further away you're still blindly placing the blame on an entire religion. What the fuck is wrong with you retards.

Exactly.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

By wanting them to move it further away you're still blindly placing the blame on an entire religion. What the fuck is wrong with you retards.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Is it wrong for them to build it there? Nope. They can. Its not only freedom of religion, but also free to build anything and anywhere.

• Do I wish they move it down a block? Sure.
• Is it insensitive? Possibly.
• Is it a non-issue? YOU SURE AS FUCK IT IS.

I like what Greg Gutfeld wants to do. He wants to build a Gay Muslim Bar next to it. It will serve 72 virgin drinks. And he's going to name it either ...

• JihHot
• JihDude
• Suspicious Packages
• You Mecca Me Hot

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Move it down a block so it's 5 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 4? WTF?

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Good fucking find Rich.

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It's amazing how fucking moving and correct Olbermann is in that piece, and I really don't like the man.

I just wish he would have left out the "first step of a new holocaust" nonsense. It was such a great video outside of that 15 seconds of sensationalism.

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Originally Posted by Rich

I just wish he would have left out the "first step of a new holocaust" nonsense. It was such a great video outside of that 15 seconds of sensationalism.

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It might be sensationalism but we need to look at that before it gets worse.

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Originally Posted by Rich

Move it down a block so it's 5 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 4? WTF?

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It doesn't end there.

Soon five blocks isn't enough. Then fifty isn't. Then the next town over isn't. Then the next state over isn't. Suddenly we're closing Mosques that already exist and then we're prosecuting and imprisoning Muslims because it's fits some politicians agenda. If that sounds crazy it shouldn't, small things like this have lead to almost every mass genocide in human history.

Do I really think that this is the first step to something like that? No, not really. But do I want to risk that very slippery slope? Not at all.

I'm sure he didn't even bother to inform himself about any of the specifics and is instead responding to the hilarious idea of a terrorist-training Mosque somehow constructed in place of the twin towers.

Anyone who is against this mosque is an un-American retard. It really is that simple.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

I'm sure he didn't even bother to inform himself about any of the specifics and is instead responding to the hilarious idea of a terrorist-training Mosque somehow constructed in place of the twin towers.

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Watch the video. Just trust me.

I did. I didn't mind the Niemöller comparison because it's very appropriate regarding the mindset of far too many people nowadays (not that any of them would even try to listen to it). I definitely appreciated the "... you know our soldiers are in Iraq right now to save muslims, right?" part.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

You know what bothers me most? The fact that a lot of you fuckers while not thinking it should be blocked still wish it wasn't going to be built there. Why? There's a church right there, you have a problem with that being there as well? Do you wish it was elsewhere also? You seem to think you're not part of the problem saying shit like:


But you still are part of the problem if you have any inclination that this is insensitive or even a hint of a thought that you think it would be better if it were moved.

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Honestly, I don't care. Its a stupid issue. They can do what they want. Its a fucking free country. If they wanna piss on the flag, light it on fire, and then use it as a diaper for the elderly they can. Its in their right. Will it bother some? Yes. Should they be stopped? No.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

If they wanna piss on the flag, light it on fire, and then use it as a diaper for the elderly they can.

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Edit: I guess this is legal.

Huh...

Opaque, please stop.

Edit: I see you got in the edit before I got in my post.

I was thinking mostly about Larry Flynt who went to jail for the whole Flag Diaper thing, but then I did some googling because I wanted to be sure and saw Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman.

I suppose there's a logical difference between free speech and treason in this instance. I might not have had the wisdom to make the distinction myself, but I see it now that I did a little reading.

Yeah its in their right to do it.

Like Michael Douglass said in "American President"

"If you want to shout the land of the free? You better be prepared for someone burning a flag on the steps of Congress."

Hey Advocate. How is building a mosque ANYWHERE in any way related to pissing on or burning the flag?

If this is a nonissue how did you get that far out on a limb with it?

Because to him it's only a non-issue in that the constitution allows it, which really misses the point.

partoftheproblem.org

its really a non issue. The people complaining about it are at the top of what is wrong with this country. That whole concept that the government is there to ban or stop things that personally annoy you.

It really boils down to some stupid people not wanting something because it reminds of them of bad stuff and they cry.

"oh god, I had sad thoughts when I saw this thing. Please don't make me sad or scared. wah wah wah"

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Originally Posted by Calliander

They're the same people who believe Obama was born in Kenya

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You're underestimating the scope of the population that takes issue with the mosque if you think it's limited to birthers and other assorted idiots. They're certainly not all ignorant bigots, and insisting that they are won't convince them to listen to you.

Not all Muslisms are terrorists; a gross understatement. Statistically, virtually no Muslims are terrorists. But the 9/11 attacks were carried out in the name of Islam and I can understand why someone might be hyper-sensitive to the association and not automatically label him an ignorant bigot. I don't agree with the opposition to the mosque, I think it's knee-jerk reaction without much critical thinking applied (unless they know something about the motivation behind the mosque that I don't and isn't conjecture). But I certainly don't presume opponents are hateful xenophobes, though there are certainly hateful xenophobes among them.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Soon five blocks isn't enough. Then fifty isn't. Then the next town over isn't. Then the next state over isn't.

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What if the mosque was being built on top of the Twin Towers' rubble? Would you have a problem with that or understand why someone else might without being hateful stupid bigot?

I don't really want anything religious built on top of the ruble.

I want them to build a SDF-1 there

but I probably won't get that

It isn't even a mosque, you retards.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

What if the mosque was being built on top of the Twin Towers' rubble? Would you have a problem with that or understand why someone else might without being hateful stupid bigot?

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I would have a problem with anything other than a proper Memorial.

It being a Mosque, and a Mosque being connected to Islam, would have nothing to do with my problem in that instance. I will admit that if it were literally on the rubble I would more understand people protesting, but never for the reasons they currently are. I hope you understand my meaning.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

You know what bothers me most? The fact that a lot of you fuckers while not thinking it should be blocked still wish it wasn't going to be built there. Why? There's a church right there, you have a problem with that being there as well? Do you wish it was elsewhere also? You seem to think you're not part of the problem.

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Anybody can wish for anything not to be built somewhere, what difference does it make? Maybe I don't like churches either, but that's ok because everyone is only interested in coming to the defense of Islam because it's "insensitive" to be against that religion.

I'd be equally against some large national movement apposing the construction of a Catholic church in the same place.

We don't live in a Country where that's happening though, so it's a moot point. Just because none of us have come to the defense of a cause that doesn't exists doesn't invalidate this instance whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by PaCrappa

Hey Advocate. How is building a mosque ANYWHERE in any way related to pissing on or burning the flag?

If this is a nonissue how did you get that far out on a limb with it?

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That's the point. All I hear from the right is its wrong, its this, its that. who cares? I hear from the left ... the right sucks, because they want to restrict this and that. Point is let them build the fucking thing. IN fact, its already there, the fucking dude bought the building and is converting it to a community center. YES, like Josh said ... its not even a goddam,n mosque. Its a fucking community center, with a prayer room inside.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

What if the mosque was being built on top of the Twin Towers' rubble? Would you have a problem with that or understand why someone else might without being hateful stupid bigot?

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I want them to build a giant tower mosque directly on ground zero and call it "Tower One" and then have two smaller, but still huge, orb mosques and call them "Ball One" and "Ball Two". This is the will of Allah.

This thread sucks.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Is it wrong for them to build it there? Nope. They can. Its not only freedom of religion, but also free to build anything and anywhere.

• Do I wish they move it down a block? Sure.
• Is it insensitive? Possibly.
• Is it a non-issue? YOU SURE AS FUCK IT IS.

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I feel like the coverage has been more insensitive than the project itself. I don't think anyone would have noticed or given a fuck if they opened a community center (which is not a goddamn mosque) in a neighborhood that no New Yorker really hangs out in to begin with, a few blocks away from Ground Zero.

It reminds me of when everyone freaked out about Don Imus' comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team. If the media didn't pitch a bitch, those girls wouldn't have even heard the comments. They don't listen to Don Imus.

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I like what Greg Gutfeld wants to do. He wants to build a Gay Muslim Bar next to it. It will serve 72 virgin drinks. And he's going to name it either ...

• JihHot
• JihDude
• Suspicious Packages
• You Mecca Me Hot

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Silly names and muslim jokes aside, Gutfeld actually intends to open this place as a protest, and even though I think he's dumb to find the project offensive in the first place, this is the one pretty reasonable protest I've seen, and I see nothing wrong with him actually doing it. Hell, it might even make money.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

What if the mosque was being built on top of the Twin Towers' rubble? Would you have a problem with that or understand why someone else might without being hateful stupid bigot?

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I think building an actual mosque on the actual ground zero site would bother people, but so would building a McDonald's, or anything else that isn't a complex of skyscrapers of equal or greater grandeur to what was destroyed. Decisions about how that land is used rests with the city in a legitimate way; what private property holders do with a damaged Burlington Coat Factory elsewhere in the neighborhood is completely different.

I think this might be a generational thing. Most older people (50s and older) that have weighed in on this with me have been illogical crazy-people about building it there. My mother, not surprisingly, just chants fox news buzzwords. WHERE'S THE MONEY COMING FROM?!? FOLLOW THE MONEY!!! But I was surprised when my girlfriends mother, who has hippie new age liberal sensibilities was all "Muslims are being insensitive to white people."

I can't wait until the baby boomers die out. The world is going to improve 10-fold.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I think building an actual mosque on the actual ground zero site would bother people, but so would building a McDonald's,

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I'm betting there is going to be a McDs on "hallowed" ground.
Isn't there supposed to be an underground shopping complex below the memorial?

White people built plenty of shit on top of "hallowed" ground. see also: manifest destiny.

To be honest, the group trying to get this thing built is just as guilty as sensationalizing it as the right wing media is.

But yeah, five fucking blocks away.

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421 There's a strip club on "hallowed ground" as well. I think the scariest part are the ignorant fucks who use this to justify their hate crimes--cabbie stabbings, mosque burnings, etc. Also I saw the thread title and I can't get "Party at Ground Zero" out of my head.

I want someone to place a giant billboard with Mohammad's face on it right next to this thing. Hey, it's America. Freedom! Then we can really see who's crying about insensitivity.

So mog is also part of the problem obviously.

People feeling the need to tell others what they can and cannot do is the root of 95% of all these kinds of "issues". It's a property rights issue, not a religious issue. If the guy who owns the land wants to build an Islamic community centre there that's his business. Mind your own.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

So mog is also part of the problem obviously.

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Well yeah. I think everyone should be pissed off over dumb shit equally.

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Originally Posted by Shooting Love

I'm betting there is going to be a McDs on "hallowed" ground.
Isn't there supposed to be an underground shopping complex below the memorial?

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And there will probably be a prayer room for the muslim employees in the building too.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

People feeling the need to tell others what they can and cannot do is the root of 95% of all these kinds of "issues". It's a property rights issue, not a religious issue. If the guy who owns the land wants to build an Islamic community centre there that's his business. Mind your own.

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Well even though I think they're being stupid, the opposition's point is not that they shouldn't be allowed to build it, it's that even though they should be allowed, they should voluntarily choose to do it elsewhere so as not to be dicks.

There are a lot of asshole things you can do that aren't illegal, but will still get you called an asshole. I don't happen to think that's where this is coming from, and I think it's drummed up hysteria, but I still get the concept of saying "Please don't do that, it bothers me," without asking for government intervention.

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Originally Posted by soundwave

I think the scariest part are the ignorant fucks who use this to justify their hate crimes--cabbie stabbings, mosque burnings, etc.

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The guy who stabbed the cabbie was pro-Mosque. And, ironically, the cabbie was against it. That whole case is really bizarre and I don't think it can be fairly tied into this whole debate.

But I do worry that we could see a backlash related to this.

I think that anyone who buys any real estate should be able to do anything they want with it. They fucking own it.

Arjue, I pronounce you HONORARY AMERICAN

Fighting words imo...

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Originally Posted by EvilMog

I want someone to place a giant billboard with Mohammad's face on it right next to this thing. Hey, it's America. Freedom! Then we can really see who's crying about insensitivity.

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I feel like this should happen, but Mohammad should be winking and a really loud "Hey, it's America. Freedom!" should sound out every 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Mr-K

I can't wait until the baby boomers die out. The world is going to improve 10-fold.

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WW2 vets didn't beat their kids enough

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Originally Posted by arjue

I think that anyone who buys any real estate should be able to do anything they want with it. They fucking own it.

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It doesn't work that way in the US. They can make you sell your land if someone claims they will do more with it. They can tell you clean it up and threaten to bill you if you don't. And you can be held liable if people trespass and hurt themselves.

It doesn't work that way anywhere, but i still believe that's how it should be.

it really should.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

There are a lot of asshole things you can do that aren't illegal, but will still get you called an asshole. I don't happen to think that's where this is coming from, and I think it's drummed up hysteria, but I still get the concept of saying "Please don't do that, it bothers me," without asking for government intervention.

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My whole argument comes down to democratic responsibility. I hold everyone who lives in a democratic country to the ideals that founded that society. Including the right to protest, which I guess this falls under. Let them ask, but it does make them an asshole. If the muslims are dicks for building something muslim on their land then so be it. Freedom needs a few dicks now and again. Dicks sometimes fuck assholes, I'm told.

But this is AMERICA

Get your Hello Kitty prayer mat now before the prices triple, motherfucker.

So I guess the fact that this is neither a mosque, nor is it being built at ground zero still hasn't actually made it through to the average mouthbreather?

some know. And they don't care. Because they are hateful bigots.

Enough said? This isn't a religious issue, its about property rights! The fact people are making it about religion shows how misinformed they are (the media isn't helping). Do none of these people realize for them to be against this they're also trampling on their own property rights?

I wish Advocate could explain why it needs to be another block away from ground zero, that makes absolutely no sense, it's not right out front as is.

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Originally Posted by arjue

I think that anyone who buys any real estate should be able to do anything they want with it. They fucking own it.

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Pacrappa is right ... Arjue is the honorary member.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

It doesn't work that way in the US. They can make you sell your land if someone claims they will do more with it. They can tell you clean it up and threaten to bill you if you don't. And you can be held liable if people trespass and hurt themselves.

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Imminent Domain doesn't work quite like that in this case. Since its FUCKING 4 BLOCKS from the actual site.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

You know what bothers me most? The fact that a lot of you fuckers while not thinking it should be blocked still wish it wasn't going to be built there.

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That's what bothers you? As long as they're not obstructing or preventing anything, who cares? Save your anger for the people actively protesting it.

There are retards who think the morning after pill is a form of abortion. The people innocuously ruminating about it during the commercials between stretches of Nancy Grace are not worth getting angry at. The people lobbying to keep it out of Walmart are. This is like that.

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Originally Posted by Spent

I wish Advocate could explain why it needs to be another block away from ground zero, that makes absolutely no sense, it's not right out front as is.

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Look at Frog's post. Its a personal thing, do I care? No. They can do what they want its a fucking free country. Apparently, people only read what they want. I really don't care it does not affect my life one way or another. They can build a huge fucking Mohammad penis on ground zero. All I am saying is I understand the opposition, but the moment you deny ... that moment gives the gov' the right to do more things.

Like a more liberal Imminent Domain policy.

Did you read what happened in Tennessee? The "opposition" isn't there because people think it is too close to the WTC site. It's there because right wing hacks are manipulating the rubes into a frenzy of anti-Muslim hate. The opposition is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Do I wish they move it down a block? Sure.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Look at Frog's post. Its a personal thing, do I care? No. They can do what they want its a fucking free country. Apparently, people only read what they want.

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I know you were saying they have the right to build it - but as you can see from the quote - you also said you wish it was another block away - I'm curious as to A) What makes you feel that way. B) What difference does a block make?

Personally, I found it insensitive; at first. Then I did research after the media broke the story.

A block won't make a difference to the victims families who find it offensive aka slap in the face. So, you are right. Moving it a block isn't worth its weight in salt. But at the end of the day, the media is blowing it way out of proportion. Its not a mosque its a community center and this has so distracted 'Murica and made this country split ... again.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Personally, I found it insensitive; at first. Then I did research after the media broke the story.

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It's this knee jerk reaction that some people don't understand. Fanatic extremists destroyed the WTC, not the whole of Islam.

Yeah the media is certainly not dong their job on this one - though just by having this thread I suppose we're not exactly helping the situation. It's amazing though that for all the coverage it's getting on every channel, the truth of the matter has to be RESEARCHED to get the true story... then again I guess that's true of any news story.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Did you read what happened in Tennessee? The "opposition" isn't there because people think it is too close to the WTC site. It's there because right wing hacks are manipulating the rubes into a frenzy of anti-Muslim hate. The opposition is bullshit.

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no

what?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...investiga.html

It's not a property rights issue, in the same way people getting pissed off at Glenn Beck for saying stupid shit isn't a free speech issue. They're just saying that it bothers them and they wish they wouldn't do it, not that it should be illegal.

Now they're wrong, because there's really no reason to find it offensive if you know the facts, but the argument is really not about rights.

How is this thread this long?

There's nothing to talk about!

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Look at Frog's post. Its a personal thing, do I care? No. They can do what they want its a fucking free country. Apparently, people only read what they want. I really don't care it does not affect my life one way or another. They can build a huge fucking Mohammad penis on ground zero. All I am saying is I understand the opposition, but the moment you deny ... that moment gives the gov' the right to do more things.

Like a more liberal Imminent Domain policy.

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The issue here is that the building isn't insensitive. Because Islam did not attack ground zero. Terrorist Al-Qaeda did. People who are "outraged" are essentially blaming Islam for the terror attacks. And that's bad, wrong and completely disgusting. Mosque or community centre there's no reason to hate or fear Muslims unless you know those specific Muslims are assholes.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

It's not a property rights issue, in the same way people getting pissed off at Glenn Beck for saying stupid shit isn't a free speech issue.

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It IS a property rights issue, it's about the right to build that mosque on that property. I'm not trying to play semantics, but when someone appeals to the government to take Beck off the air for being a fucking moron, that's infringing on free speech as much as the protesters to this mosque are asking government to step in and ban it. I'm not saying it will happen, and I'm certainly not saying their claims have any validity, but it definitely is a property rights issue if these people are lobbying for government involvement.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

The issue here is that it isn't insensitive. Because Islam did not attack ground zero. Terrorist Al-Qaeda did. People who are "outraged" are essentially blaming Islam for the terror attacks. And that's bad, wrong and completely disgusting. Mosque or community centre there's no reason to hate or fear Muslims unless you know those specific Muslims are assholes.

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You and a bunch more I bet, misunderstand ... again. Spent asked me specifically why I said what I said. I don't give a shit about Dick McFattyFuck's reason. Spent asked me for my own reason. I answered. Got it?

And then I said after I did more research after the story broke. I changed my view and said that what they want would infringe on rights.

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Originally Posted by Spent

It IS a property rights issue, it's about the right to build that mosque on that property.

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No, they want them to choose to move it out of respect for the victims of 9/11 not out of legal obligation.

We got pissed off at John Edwards for cheating on his sick wife because it was a scumbag thing to do, not because we think he's not allowed to fuck whoever he wants. People have the right to be assholes, but it doesn't mean that others are going to approve, or won't tell them when they're behaving in a way that offends them.

There may be some people that think the government is going to step in, but the vast majority of people I hear bitching about the mosque are just mad that the people in charge of the mosque are unwilling to compromise and have no regard for their feelings.

There MAY be some people that don't get the property rights thing, but that's hardly the whole argument here, and it's missing at the very least a big part of it.

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Originally Posted by Spent

it definitely is a property rights issue if these people are lobbying for government involvement.

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Right. Most of them aren't, and for them, this is not about rights, it's just about community and compromise. And also xenophobia and ignorance, but I mean from their perspective.

I hate playing devil's advocate here, but nothing bugs me more than a bad argument for the side I'm on.

Yeah, people think that building a community center in an area that needs commerce and support is a scumbag thing to do. Which is so, so sad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Advocate

You and a bunch more I bet, misunderstand ... again. Spent asked me specifically why I said what I said. I don't give a shit about Dick McFattyFuck's reason. Spent asked me for my own reason. I answered. Got it?

And then I said after I did more research after the story broke. I changed my view and said that what they want would infringe on rights.

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Apology accepted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

No, they want them to choose to move it out of respect for the victims of 9/11 not out of legal obligation.

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Yeah I don't think is true. I saw some blogger bitch on Anderson Cooper claim the Burlington Coat Factory should be claimed a 9/11 heritage site because landing gear from the attack landed on the roof. If people just thought adultery was a dick move they wouldn't call for the resignation of people in government caught doing it. There's a very real contingent of people wanting legislation and the governments hand brought down on this. Everyone here knows better.

This thread has shown me that even monsters like Advocate can have emotions.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images...oom-crying.jpg

I don't think perpetually horny counts as an emotion, soundwave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

I don't think perpetually horny counts as an emotion, soundwave.

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what does it count for then?

Hormonal problems?

Or just not getting any?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spent

Do none of these people realize for them to be against this they're also trampling on their own property rights?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lewis Black

The people of Alabama were so upset about the fact that their school system was terrible that the people of Alabama sued the state... which means the people of Alabama sued themselves.

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We're talking about 'Murricans, here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Yeah I don't think is true. I saw some blogger bitch on Anderson Cooper claim the Burlington Coat Factory should be claimed a 9/11 heritage site because landing gear from the attack landed on the roof. If people just thought adultery was a dick move they wouldn't call for the resignation of people in government caught doing it. There's a very real contingent of people wanting legislation and the governments hand brought down on this. Everyone here knows better.

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Again, I know there are people that want Daddy Government to come in and fix it, but I don't feel like that's the majority of people, and even if it is, it's certainly not the totality of the argument.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Again, I know there are people that want Daddy Government to come in and fix it, but I don't feel like that's the majority of people...

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If it isn't then this isn't an argument at all and this situation doesn't pertain to you.

Apology accepted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Advocate

what does it count for then?

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The top spot on TNL Survivor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Hormonal problems?

Or just not getting any?

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It isn't an either/or situation.

Stop talking about this. This story doesn't even exist.

*The site is not at ground zero
*The building will not be a mosque

Freedom of religion doesn't have to enter the conversation for the same reason that the laws of physics don't have to enter a conversation about Santa Clause.

Story. Entirely. Made. Up.




And yes, they should be allowed to build a community center a few blocks away from ground zero.

Shut up Andrew. I know you know how to read, I'm not falling for it again.

Cheebs is correct.

The day is yours!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

The top spot on TNL Survivor.

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Dunno about that chief.